Gas Bandit's Political Thread IV

[SpecialKO]

Blackwater/Xe founder implicated in whistleblower murders

Now, these are allegations, not convictions, and we may not have the whole story here, but all the same...I can't find this especially surprising.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Blackwater/Xe founder implicated in whistleblower murders

Now, these are allegations, not convictions, and we may not have the whole story here, but all the same...I can't find this especially surprising.

So you take a job with Murder Inc. and are surprised when they start killing people?

 

[JCM]

Just to toss this in-

 

[Tress]

California is being ordered to release over 40,000 prison inmates due to health and safety concerns. Apparently the prisons are ridiculous overcrowded and understaffed, leading to situations where prisons aren't getting adequate health and mental care.

On Tuesday the judges ordered the state in 45 days to prepare a plan to cut overcrowding to 137.5 percent of capacity.

That's right, they have to reduce it down to 137% of capacity. I knew they were overcrowded, but damn! I didn't realize it was THAT bad!

 

[JCM]

 

[Shakey]

Is Hitler giggling? Hitler doesn't giggle. I call shenanigans.

 

[Krisken]

Is this put out by Chic publishing?

 

[DarkAudit]

 

[Espy]

President Barack Obama said Friday his administration had saved the US economy from catastrophe and the worst of the recession may be over, after a surprise drop in the unemployment rate.
"This morning we received additional signs that the worst may be behind us," said Obama in remarks in the White House Rose Garden after new figures showed the jobless rate slipped to a better than expected 9.4 percent in July.

"This morning, we received additional signs that the worst may be behind us," Obama said.

"We are losing jobs at less than half the rate we were when I took office. We have pulled the financial system back from the brink.

"While we have rescued our economy from catastrophe, we have also begun to build a new foundation for growth," Obama said, but he also warned that tough times lay ahead before the economy would be restored to full prosperity.

I really, REALLY pray he's right and these words don't bit him in the butt. I think the only thing missing from this speech was the aircraft carrier and flight suit. Seriously, I really hope he's the savior of the economy like he says, but I'm really worried he's claiming victory way to early here.

 

[Krisken]

President Barack Obama said Friday his administration had saved the US economy from catastrophe and the worst of the recession may be over, after a surprise drop in the unemployment rate.
"This morning we received additional signs that the worst may be behind us," said Obama in remarks in the White House Rose Garden after new figures showed the jobless rate slipped to a better than expected 9.4 percent in July.

"This morning, we received additional signs that the worst may be behind us," Obama said.

"We are losing jobs at less than half the rate we were when I took office. We have pulled the financial system back from the brink.

"While we have rescued our economy from catastrophe, we have also begun to build a new foundation for growth," Obama said, but he also warned that tough times lay ahead before the economy would be restored to full prosperity.

I really, REALLY pray he's right and these words don't bit him in the butt. I think the only thing missing from this speech was the aircraft carrier and flight suit. Seriously, I really hope he's the savior of the economy like he says, but I'm really worried he's claiming victory way to early here.

Someone needs to get a pic of Obama and photoshop it onto the carrier with the "Mission Accomplished" sign behind him on this one.

 

[Espy]

Thanks, I'm not crazy then? Cause man, if he's even remotely wrong this is going to be front and center against him in 3 years.

 

[Krisken]

Thanks, I'm not crazy then? Cause man, if he's even remotely wrong this is going to be front and center against him in 3 years.

No, you're not crazy. While he's saying it's a good sign, it will probably be used as "he said it was all fixed!" I don't think we'll have to wait 3 years for people to use it against him though!

What I would keep an eye on is the price of gold. If it starts to drop, the dollar is probably going up.

 

[Dieb]

Right, I read it litterally; and it's true, the economy no longer looks like we're about to enter a serious depression, ie, we've avoided "catastrophe". Not that we're out of the recession. I'm sure some will quote him out of context and say that he said we're out of the recession, but I mean, the very next line in the article you quoted is "but he also warned that tough times lay ahead before the economy would be restored to full prosperity". He clearly doesn't mean "mission accomplished", but the unempolyment numbers genuinely look good (well, ok, not "good", but a whole hell of a lot better than they did).

 

[SpecialKO]

Right, I read it litterally; and it's true, the economy no longer looks like we're about to enter a serious depression, ie, we've avoided "catastrophe". Not that we're out of the recession. I'm sure some will quote him out of context and say that he said we're out of the recession, but I mean, the very next line in the article you quoted is "but he also warned that tough times lay ahead before the economy would be restored to full prosperity". He clearly doesn't mean "mission accomplished", but the unempolyment numbers genuinely look good (well, ok, not "good", but a whole * of a lot better than they did).

I don't disagree, but this was really a moment to be extremely careful over how you say something, and he flunked it. He of all people should be aware of just how badly he needs to win the context fight in the war of words.

This isn't quite "the fundamentals of our economy are strong" level, but he hammered McCain on those choice of words, and he's going to get hammered now.

 

[Espy]

Right, I read it litterally; and it's true, the economy no longer looks like we're about to enter a serious depression, ie, we've avoided "catastrophe". Not that we're out of the recession. I'm sure some will quote him out of context and say that he said we're out of the recession, but I mean, the very next line in the article you quoted is "but he also warned that tough times lay ahead before the economy would be restored to full prosperity". He clearly doesn't mean "mission accomplished", but the unempolyment numbers genuinely look good (well, ok, not "good", but a whole * of a lot better than they did).

I don't disagree, but this was really a moment to be extremely careful over how you say something, and he flunked it. He of all people should be aware of just how badly he needs to win the context fight in the war of words.

This isn't quite "the fundamentals of our economy are strong" level, but he hammered McCain on those choice of words, and he's going to get hammered now.

Unless things get dramatically better. Everything I have read and heard seems to indicate we haven't hit our bottom yet and that 10% is still right around the corner, from the WSJ:

The payroll figures — jobs lost — comes from a Labor Department survey of employers. The unemployment rate is measured through a separate survey of households — asking people whether they have a job, whether they want a job and whether they searched for a job (among other things). If people drop out of the labor force, the unemployment rate can decline because fewer people would be considered jobless.

When the economy recovers, more people are likely to reenter the labor force looking for jobs. People who decided to return to school during the downturn, for instance, would eventually return to the job search and help push the unemployment rate higher. (The government’s broader jobless rate declined a fifth of a percentage point to 16.3%. But its still-elevated level signals how many people want full-time jobs but stopped looking because they can’t get one.)

But the jobless rate, as a lagging indicator, is likely to resume rising even as the economy recovers and employers start adding jobs. So 10% unemployment isn’t out of the question.

So while I hope he's right and this is truly our economy rising from the grave on the 3rd day, it was, as Tekeo pointed out, a very poor choice of words that could come back to haunt him.

 

[Dieb]

Unless things get dramatically better. Everything I have read and heard seems to indicate we haven't hit our bottom yet and that 10% is still right around the corner, from the WSJ:

The payroll figures — jobs lost — comes from a Labor Department survey of employers. The unemployment rate is measured through a separate survey of households — asking people whether they have a job, whether they want a job and whether they searched for a job (among other things). If people drop out of the labor force, the unemployment rate can decline because fewer people would be considered jobless.

When the economy recovers, more people are likely to reenter the labor force looking for jobs. People who decided to return to school during the downturn, for instance, would eventually return to the job search and help push the unemployment rate higher. (The government’s broader jobless rate declined a fifth of a percentage point to 16.3%. But its still-elevated level signals how many people want full-time jobs but stopped looking because they can’t get one.)

But the jobless rate, as a lagging indicator, is likely to resume rising even as the economy recovers and employers start adding jobs. So 10% unemployment isn’t out of the question.

So while I hope he's right and this is truly our economy rising from the grave on the 3rd day, it was, as Tekeo pointed out, a very poor choice of words that could come back to haunt him.

It matters by what you mean by "hit bottom". Employment is, as you quote, a lagging indicator. That means that unemployment will only start to go down months AFTER the economy starts growing again. In fact, it's looking pretty likely that this recession will eventually have been said to have ended in about the third or maybe the fourth quarter of this year - ie, that we'll techinically be out of the recession within a few months. But "out of the recession", in this case, just means GDP will start to grow again. Unemployment won't start to go down probably until next spring, would be my guess.

Maybe it is a bad choice of words. I don't know how it will play out for the masses, which is what matters for this sort of thing. But to me, he's entirely right. I mean, back in October of last year the fear was a Great Depression-like collapse, and we've avoided that. But other people could interpret his words in a different way.

 

[JCM]

 

[AshburnerX]

... why is House in that picture?

 

[JCM]

Because its not Lupus.

 

I still give Bush a lot of credit for this turnaround. A lot of the stuff happening in the economy today is because of the policies he enacted in his last few months. I like Obama and HATE Bush, but I have to give credit where it's due.

 

[Espy]

I still give Bush a lot of credit for this turnaround. A lot of the stuff happening in the economy today is because of the policies he enacted in his last few months. I like Obama and HATE Bush, but I have to give credit where it's due.

I'm sorry? Maybe you didn't read that? Obama's administration has rescued the economy. How dare you contradict him. How dare you. I'm going to have to report your post to the flag@gov.com email address, it's my duty as a citizen to let them know you are a "troubled" citizen. :heythere:
On a serious note, I'm still holding my breath for "real" turn-around, let's see what unemployment is in the next quarter before we get too excited. Plus, any turn-around we might have from this "stimulus" is simply more debt we have to deal with later so it has it's considerable consequences. Bailing out wall street and the car company's (Can we all admit the "cash for clunkers" is just that? Your tax money being given to car dealers, of all the things the gov is doing it's better than most since it stimulates sales as well) is potentially just going prolong the problems we have now by having them (mainly wall street) not actually change anything substantial in the way they do business.

Oh, wait, I just saw this, I guess the recession is over! Congress wants to buy itself eight private Gulfstream and Boeing planes so they can cruise the world in style for the low, low taxpayer price of 550 Million dollars! That's right, the same lovely folks who berated and harassed the car company CEO's for flying in their private jets decided that looked like a pretty good deal! Well, I guess since the government has handled their finances soooooooooo well we can throw them a few hundred million dollars to buy themselves some new planes. Good for them.

A fun link for today: http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unamerican-attacks-cant-derail-health-care-debate-.htm
Remember how annoying it was when stupid republicans called protestors un-american? Remember how the left just ravaged them (as they should) for it? Well, I guess they decided, hey, that looks pretty good to us to!
From the op-ed by the esteemed Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer

'Un-American' attacks can't derail health care debate
These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.

So. If you protest against them you are Un-American. Fantastic. Add this to my list of "Why both parties are just two sides of the same coin".

 

[Tress]

The "religious left" is getting involved in the healthcare debate. Basically they are trying to undo the damage done by retarded conservative talkshow hosts, who have done an effective job scaring idiots into thinking a national healthcare plan equals government mandated abortion and euthanasia.

We'll see if it works. rly:

 

[Shakey]

AARP is even backing health care reform now. So much for the whole forced euthanasia argument.

One of AARP’s new print ads reads: “Special interest groups are trying to block progress on health care reform using myths and scare tactics. Like the myth that health care reform will give the government the power to make life-and-death decisions for everyone. That’s simply false. The fact is, no one, including the government or your insurance company, will be given power to make life-and-death decisions for anyone regardless of their age. Those decisions will be made by you, your doctor and your family.”

 

[Espy]

There are plenty of reasons to not like Obama-care without running to some of the stupid places the far right has gone. However, at this point the far right is going ballistic and the far left (the Pelosi's etc) are all but threatening to crush under their mighty fist any of the the "un-american" american who dare not agree with them.
It's gonna be a giant clusterf*ck and in the end I predict NOTHING will happen.

Which I'm fine with. When any of the politicians can get their greedy hands out of lawyers pockets (see: never) and we can talk tort reform then we can actually do something meaningful in changing our healthcare system, until then though... it's just going to be a mess that pits one side against the other, not that any solution won't have it's detractors but this is about as far from the bi-partisan as you can get and both sides are to blame.

 

[strawman]

-Adam

 

[GasBandit]

Sorry I haven't been posting lately, I went to a townhall meeting and got beat up by a SEIU member.

 

[Espy]

Sorry I haven't been posting lately, I went to a townhall meeting and got beat up by a SEIU member.

Well, that's what you get for being a nazi un-american protestor. How dare you exercise your right to free speech. I'm going to report you to our loving Big Brother now.

 

[GasBandit]

Sorry I haven't been posting lately, I went to a townhall meeting and got beat up by a SEIU member.

Well, that's what you get for being a nazi un-american protestor. How dare you exercise your right to free speech. I'm going to report you to our loving Big Brother now.

Well, my time in the hospital gave me an opportunity to add over 250 new images to the horde, at least.

 

[Shakey]

A fun link for today: http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/unamerican-attacks-cant-derail-health-care-debate-.html
Remember how annoying it was when stupid republicans called protestors un-american? Remember how the left just ravaged them (as they should) for it? Well, I guess they decided, hey, that looks pretty good to us to!
From the op-ed by the esteemed Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer

'Un-American' attacks can't derail health care debate
These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.

So. If you protest against them you are Un-American. Fantastic. Add this to my list of "Why both parties are just two sides of the same coin".

You forgot a l at the end of your link. I fixed it above.

The quote above yours is:

However, it is now evident that an ugly campaign is underway not merely to misrepresent the health insurance reform legislation, but to disrupt public meetings and prevent members of Congress and constituents from conducting a civil dialogue. These tactics have included hanging in effigy one Democratic member of Congress in Maryland and protesters holding a sign displaying a tombstone with the name of another congressman in Texas, where protesters also shouted \"Just say no!\" drowning out those who wanted to hold a substantive discussion.

I don't agree with calling people un-American, but they weren't talking about all protests. Just when the above is being done.

 

[Krisken]

Sorry I haven't been posting lately, I went to a townhall meeting and got beat up by a SEIU member.

Well, that's what you get for being a nazi un-american protestor. How dare you exercise your right to free speech. I'm going to report you to our loving Big Brother now.

So when you try to talk at one of these things, I should shout over you and start chanting slogans and call it free speech?

 

[GasBandit]

Sorry I haven't been posting lately, I went to a townhall meeting and got beat up by a SEIU member.

Well, that's what you get for being a nazi un-american protestor. How dare you exercise your right to free speech. I'm going to report you to our loving Big Brother now.

So when you try to talk at one of these things, I should shout over you and start chanting slogans and call it free speech?

Answer 1) That's what Obama said to do back in 06.
Answer 2) So when someone starts shouting and chanting, the answer is for members of a union whose leader (in his own words) "visits the white house at least once a week" to beat the shit out of you?

 

[Krisken]

Sorry I haven't been posting lately, I went to a townhall meeting and got beat up by a SEIU member.

Well, that's what you get for being a nazi un-american protestor. How dare you exercise your right to free speech. I'm going to report you to our loving Big Brother now.

So when you try to talk at one of these things, I should shout over you and start chanting slogans and call it free speech?

Answer 1) That's what Obama said to do back in 06.
Answer 2) So when someone starts shouting and chanting, the answer is for members of a union whose leader (in his own words) "visits the white house at least once a week" to beat the shit out of you?

Link to answer one?
Answer two is just a loaded question and unworthy of a response.

 

[Espy]

You guys are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying the protestors aren't being assholes. What I'm saying is that the left has made a business out of protesting and then going after the idiots on the right who call them "un-american" for it and now that they are facing some of the same stuff from the other side suddenly that's "un-american"? It's amazingly hypocritical and yet no one seems even remotely bothered by it.

Here's how I feel: I don't think it's a good way to get things done and I don't care for it from either side. Them protesting is their right however and the louder they are (on either side) should tell the representatives of the people (thats what they are and it seems like more often than not they don't remember that) that just telling the american public to shut up and like whatever they get isn't the right way to go about it.

For that matter asking people to send in emails and websites to the government that are critical of the policy isn't terribly cool with me either but no one on the left seems to give a damn about that little recent gem. If Bush had asked people to send that kind of stuff in about what people were saying about he Iraq war it would be front page news.

Oh and here's big O telling you to "Argue with your neighbors, get in their face"
[YouTube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCMDur9CDZ4]

 

[GasBandit]

Well, that's what you get for being a nazi un-american protestor. How dare you exercise your right to free speech. I'm going to report you to our loving Big Brother now.

So when you try to talk at one of these things, I should shout over you and start chanting slogans and call it free speech?

Answer 1) That's what Obama said to do back in 06.
Answer 2) So when someone starts shouting and chanting, the answer is for members of a union whose leader (in his own words) "visits the white house at least once a week" to beat the shit out of you?

Link to answer one?
Answer two is just a loaded question and unworthy of a response.

Answer 1 link - sorry, dunno why I typed 06, it is 08.

Answer 2 is unworthy to you because you don't want to acknowledge the abuses of the side with which you sympathize.

 

[Krisken]

I don't consider protesting and intimidating others as the same thing.

I can go and protest, share my ideas and thoughts, without making my neighbors uncomfortable. If they have different ideas, great! Discussion is good.
Shouting over others who disagree is horse shit.

Oh, and Espy, that is what he said, but he's not saying to shout over them. Interesting that you think so though.