Gas Bandit's Political Thread IV

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Frivolous medical lawsuits, the punitive damages system, the precedential system and hardly any decent state/nation-support for people disabled through error instead of nature, plus the ridiculous costs one has to incurr to be able to become a doctor in the US, combined are what will destroy any sort of state funded healthcare system in the US.
Doctors need to charge high - or be paid high, one way or another - because of huge insurances and student loans. Government health care can't pay that high and remain affordable. I'm a HUGE proponent of national health care (though NOT of the British system, or of what I'm seeing in the proposals in the US), but it's doomed the way it's being made now, and it'll be doomed unless some huge steps are made to change the education system adn the justice system as well. Paying for all of those together is impossible, so...Yeah.
 
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Bubble181 said:
Frivolous medical lawsuits, the punitive damages system, the precedential system and hardly any decent state/nation-support for people disabled through error instead of nature, plus the ridiculous costs one has to incurr to be able to become a doctor in the US, combined are what will destroy any sort of state funded healthcare system in the US.
Doctors need to charge high - or be paid high, one way or another - because of huge insurances and student loans. Government health care can't pay that high and remain affordable. I'm a HUGE proponent of national health care (though NOT of the British system, or of what I'm seeing in the proposals in the US), but it's doomed the way it's being made now, and it'll be doomed unless some huge steps are made to change the education system adn the justice system as well. Paying for all of those together is impossible, so...Yeah.
What your going to see happen once a State run health care system is in place is state-funded Medical schools/scholarship programs open up, where your tuition is ether drastically reduced or eliminated if you pledge to work for a certain period of time as a public practitioner. It'll basically be a parallel of the current mercenary systems: Doctors learn what they need via state sponsored sources, work for a limited time in their employ, then go into private practice (where they can make REAL money with less bureaucracy) once their "enlistment" is up.
 
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AshburnerX said:
It'll basically be a parallel of the current mercenary systems: Doctors learn what they need via state sponsored sources, work for a limited time in their employ, then go into private practice (where they can make REAL money with less bureaucracy) once their "enlistment" is up.
Isn't that how it works for the Army medical corps?
 
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/me shops at Harris Teeter and Fresh Market when he wants quality fish.

also if I was John Mackey I know what I'd be thinking about those quotes: :pud:
 
A

Armadillo

Whole Foods, bastion of the organic granola hippies, is now seen by them as evil corporate right-wing profiteers.

I laugh heartily.
 
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He knew the risks when he made those statements. If he didn't want to risk this kind of response, he shouldn't have made his opinion public knowledge.
 
M

Mr_Chaz

Fox News: Nationalised healthcare leads to terrorism...

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c-JEx-Kfvc:2ttuejnp][/youtube:2ttuejnp]

And Fox claim not to stereotype or be racist. Fair and balanced, sure.
 
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Mr_Chaz said:
Fox News: Nationalised healthcare leads to terrorism...

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c-JEx-Kfvc:35ka2xev][/youtube:35ka2xev]

And Fox claim not to stereotype or be racist. Fair and balanced, sure.
Holy crap. That is one hell of a stretch to try to link those issues to each other.

Love the 1 1/4 star rating.
 
M

Mr_Chaz

One group of doctors were linked to a terrorist plot (only 1 or 2 were found guilty so far I believe?), so the doctor's employer must be a breeding ground for terrorism. Of course, how did I not think of it before?
 
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Mr_Chaz said:
One group of doctors were linked to a terrorist plot (only 1 or 2 were found guilty so far I believe?), so the doctor's employer must be a breeding ground for terrorism. Of course, how did I not think of it before?
You're sane and don't jump to conclusions without proof?
 

Espy

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Krisken said:
Mr_Chaz said:
One group of doctors were linked to a terrorist plot (only 1 or 2 were found guilty so far I believe?), so the doctor's employer must be a breeding ground for terrorism. Of course, how did I not think of it before?
You're sane and don't jump to conclusions without proof?
And that very sanity and good judgement means he will never get that sweet sweet job on 24 hour cable news... :waah:
 
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Espy said:
Krisken said:
Mr_Chaz said:
One group of doctors were linked to a terrorist plot (only 1 or 2 were found guilty so far I believe?), so the doctor's employer must be a breeding ground for terrorism. Of course, how did I not think of it before?
You're sane and don't jump to conclusions without proof?
And that very sanity and good judgement means he will never get that sweet sweet job on 24 hour cable news... :waah:
Ah, the sacrifices we make to not look like tools in public. :uhhuh:
 

GasBandit

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A doctor responds to Obama's op-ed

G. Wesley Clark, MD
Mr. President, I just read your op-ed in the New York Times. You must either be incredibly ignorant (e.g., pediatricians performing tonsillectomies, surgeons being paid $50,000 for an amputation), or else you believe that Americans are incredibly stupid.

You justify a hasty and massive healthcare \"reform\" to save money, by spending an additional trillion dollars. You would fix a \"broken\" and broke Medicare system by adding another 47 million beneficiaries to government programs while arguing this will reduce overall costs.

I've itemized your inaccurate claims, with my comments in italics.

You assert that your healthcare reform will:

* Force insurance companies to insure pre-existing conditions. That's like allowing bettors to wait till after the race has been run, to place their bets. That won't cut costs.
* Eliminate lifetime limits on coverage. Unlimited lifetime coverages must increase premiums to pay for them and will raise total costs.
* Require insurance companies to pay for routine examinations, preventive care, and screening tests like mammograms and colonoscopies. Once again, how can you be insured against a sure thing? The only way my company can pay for a colonoscopy is to add enough onto the premium to pay for it, plus their overhead.
* Make Medicare more efficient, so tax dollars won't enrich insurance companies. Insurance companies do not derive income from Medicare, because it is a federal program. Incidentally, its costs per patient have increased much faster than private insurance.
* Cut hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid. These programs have been in effect over 40 years -- and I've seen the waste and inefficiency for most of that interval. Did you just find out about the waste and inefficiency now, and why hasn't something already been done about it?


You claim that:

* \"If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.\" But didn't you just imply this week that Medicare Advantage subsidizes insurance companies and should be eliminated to save money?
* \"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.\" But large numbers of doctors have indicated that they will quit or retire if this plan is enacted
* \"You will not be waiting in any lines.\" Maybe you won't but we will. Your plan will add up to 47 million new insureds, with no increase in the supply of primary care physicians that are already in short supply.


We physicians live with our healthcare system, all day and every day. We care about being able to heal. We hate disputing with insurance companies, and especially with government bureaucrats. Certainly changes in insurance practices are needed, and would have occurred long ago, absent a government record of 60 years of meddling with the market.

As you say, \"...let's disagree over issues that are real, and not wild misrepresentations\" such as those in your op-ed, \"that bear no resemblance to anything that anyone has actually proposed.\"

And I agree, this is about America's future: whether Americans will remain free, or be ruled by an increasingly intrusive and authoritarian statist government.

G. Wesley Clark, MD

(Doctor Clark is not related to the retired general of the same name)

A new Gallup poll shows that more people describe themselves as conservative rather than liberal ... in all 50 states.

Here's a brief look at the stats:

*In 2009, 40% percent of respondents in Gallup surveys that have interviewed more than 160,000 Americans have said that they are either "conservative" (31%) or "very conservative" (9%). That is the highest percentage in any year since 2004.

*Only 21% have told Gallup they are liberal, including 16% who say they are "liberal" and 5% who say they are "very liberal."

*Thirty-five percent of Americans say they are moderate.

So what is going on here? If this is really the case, then why aren't the Republicans running the show? Easy, because the Republicans are not conservative. Plus, after Bush's spending spree and the institution of such programs as Medicare coverage for prescription drugs and immigration "reform," many conservatives simply don't trust the Republicans any more. Yeah, maybe they are "socially conservative," but when it comes to the economy and spending, people lost faith in the Republican Party dramatically increasing government spending for many years. They got caught up in the power. So now, they are left completely impotent. They are left with a country full of people just dying for someone with real fiscally conservative gonads to represent them in Washington. But they just don't trust the Republicans to do it. Can you blame them?

And why isn't the Libertarian party running ads left right and center now, I'd like to know?

The Democrats continue the in-house fighting ... now the liberal Democrats are upset with Obama's decision to back away from a government-run option on healthcare for the sake of the "blue dog" democrats.

Why you should not trust politicians - They think they know what's good for you, better than you do, no matter what you tell them. And you want these people in charge of your medical decisions?

Barack Obama has said that the Canadian healthcare system is not an option for Americans. That's probably for the best considering that the incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says that their healthcare system is about to "implode."

Health Care Reform - "Choose your own adventure" style

How bad are things going with the cash-for-clunkers program? The federal government has only reimbursed auto dealers for 2% of the claims they've submitted.

More info emerges on Barack Obama's town hall stage props.

Never fear, government agents are making sure no 10 year old selling lemonade without a permit goes unpunished. And it only took 4 of them to take her down!
 
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GasBandit said:
Never fear, government agents are making sure no 10 year old selling lemonade without a permit goes unpunished. And it only took 4 of them to take her down!
She was doing it on public land. If permits weren't required I'd hate to see what our parks would turn into as every penny-ante stand set up shop there.

It was a failure of process, though - the agents should have given her a verbal warning first, then a ticket if she didn't leave. The fact that the ticket was overturned was validation of that.

-Adam
 

GasBandit

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stienman said:
GasBandit said:
Never fear, government agents are making sure no 10 year old selling lemonade without a permit goes unpunished. And it only took 4 of them to take her down!
She was doing it on public land. If permits weren't required I'd hate to see what our parks would turn into as every penny-ante stand set up shop there.

It was a failure of process, though - the agents should have given her a verbal warning first, then a ticket if she didn't leave. The fact that the ticket was overturned was validation of that.

-Adam
True enough, there should have just been ONE "park cop" instead of 4 "surrounding" her, and the park cop should have just said "you can't do that in the park without a permit, you'll have to sell lemonade somewhere else" rather than break out the citation pad. But then, I guess they do have their quotas to meet, don't they?
 
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GasBandit said:
stienman said:
GasBandit said:
Never fear, government agents are making sure no 10 year old selling lemonade without a permit goes unpunished. And it only took 4 of them to take her down!
She was doing it on public land. If permits weren't required I'd hate to see what our parks would turn into as every penny-ante stand set up shop there.

It was a failure of process, though - the agents should have given her a verbal warning first, then a ticket if she didn't leave. The fact that the ticket was overturned was validation of that.

-Adam
True enough, there should have just been ONE "park cop" instead of 4 "surrounding" her, and the park cop should have just said "you can't do that in the park without a permit, you'll have to sell lemonade somewhere else" rather than break out the citation pad. But then, I guess they do have their quotas to meet, don't they?
You guys can talk all you want, but we all know why this really happened. This is just another instance of the man trying to keep the white man down. If she had been a wise,latina ten year old, none of this shit woulda happened, and you know this.

...

Wow, even when mocking the Glenn Beck types it sickens me a little to type something like that.
 
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Fun Size said:
You guys can talk all you want, but we all know why this really happened. This is just another instance of the man trying to keep the white man down. If she had been a wise,latina ten year old, none of this poop woulda happened, and you know this.

...

Wow, even when mocking the Glenn Beck types it sickens me a little to type something like that.
You might be kidding, but if it was a minority, people* definitely would be clamoring racism.


*Jesse Jackson
 
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blotsfan said:
Fun Size said:
You guys can talk all you want, but we all know why this really happened. This is just another instance of the man trying to keep the white man down. If she had been a wise,latina ten year old, none of this poop woulda happened, and you know this.

...

Wow, even when mocking the Glenn Beck types it sickens me a little to type something like that.
You might be kidding, but if it was a minority, people* definitely would be clamoring racism.


*Jesse Jackson
You really can't wait until you're a minority, can you?
 
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Krisken said:
blotsfan said:
Fun Size said:
You guys can talk all you want, but we all know why this really happened. This is just another instance of the man trying to keep the white man down. If she had been a wise,latina ten year old, none of this poop woulda happened, and you know this.

...

Wow, even when mocking the Glenn Beck types it sickens me a little to type something like that.
You might be kidding, but if it was a minority, people* definitely would be clamoring racism.


*Jesse Jackson
You really can't wait until you're a minority, can you?
Somehow I doubt anyone would feel sorry for white people, even if they became a poor, impoverished minority suddenly. You can't just ignore centuries of euro-centric history. I'd imagine we'd get a "Sucks to be you" and then be left to our own devices.
 
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Barney Frank Confronts Woman at Townhall Who Compares Obama to Hitler

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8:3bmvv3yu][/youtube:3bmvv3yu]

I would feel bad for her, but she asked the political version of "When did you stop beating your wife?"

If she had asked a real question, like "how will hospitals be able to maintain their level of service with the extra care they will need to provide?" or "Is this something that Americans can even pay for given our current financial situation?", then she might have, y'know, gotten a good, or at least illuminating, answer.
 
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TeKeo said:
If she had asked a real question, like "how will hospitals be able to maintain their level of service with the extra care they will need to provide?" or "Is this something that Americans can even pay for given our current financial situation?", then she might have, y'know, gotten a good, or at least illuminating, answer.
doubt it. those violent racist nazis have asked questions in which they quoted directly from the bill, and have been told off for lying about the contents.
 
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Covar said:
TeKeo said:
If she had asked a real question, like "how will hospitals be able to maintain their level of service with the extra care they will need to provide?" or "Is this something that Americans can even pay for given our current financial situation?", then she might have, y'know, gotten a good, or at least illuminating, answer.
doubt it. those violent racist nazis have asked questions in which they quoted directly from the bill, and have been told off for lying about the contents.
Got proof of that, or are we going for hyperbole?
 
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Krisken said:
Covar said:
TeKeo said:
If she had asked a real question, like "how will hospitals be able to maintain their level of service with the extra care they will need to provide?" or "Is this something that Americans can even pay for given our current financial situation?", then she might have, y'know, gotten a good, or at least illuminating, answer.
doubt it. those violent racist nazis have asked questions in which they quoted directly from the bill, and have been told off for lying about the contents.
Got proof of that, or are we going for hyperbole?
Well, he might be talking about how at the same meeting, one guy apparently quoted from the bill, saying that illegal immigrants were going to get all this coverage, but then Frank quoted a different part of the bill, saying that it superceded the part the guy mentioned and that illegal immigrants would not be getting all that coverage.

But then again, I'm confused who he's talking about with the "violent racist nazi" thing. The only person in that video who accused anyone of being a nazi was the women who called Obama Hitler.
 

Espy

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Well, it's kind of hard to quote from "the bill" when there are 5 different versions going and the neither side really knows whats in them right now.
It's like Jon Stewart said the other night: "So this is the state of our discourse: One party shouts so loud you can't hear the incoherence of the other."
 
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TeKeo said:
Krisken said:
Covar said:
TeKeo said:
If she had asked a real question, like \"how will hospitals be able to maintain their level of service with the extra care they will need to provide?\" or \"Is this something that Americans can even pay for given our current financial situation?\", then she might have, y'know, gotten a good, or at least illuminating, answer.
doubt it. those violent racist nazis have asked questions in which they quoted directly from the bill, and have been told off for lying about the contents.
Got proof of that, or are we going for hyperbole?
Well, he might be talking about how at the same meeting, one guy apparently quoted from the bill, saying that illegal immigrants were going to get all this coverage, but then Frank quoted a different part of the bill, saying that it superceded the part the guy mentioned and that illegal immigrants would not be getting all that coverage.

But then again, I'm confused who he's talking about with the "violent racist nazi" thing. The only person in that video who accused anyone of being a nazi was the women who called Obama Hitler.
and the Speaker of the House (posted by Espy 2 pages back).

Also Espy, when these people are asking Congressmen, and there's only one bill in the house, not that hard to quote them.

-- Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:38 pm --

Looks like there will be no quick solution with this healthcare bill :)
 

GasBandit

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Anybody ever heard of the Cloward-Piven strategy? It was cooked up by two lefty professors in the 60s. It's about causing capitalism to collapse by manufacturing and orchestrating crisis.

Democrats know that they are losing the PR battle on healthcare. So they've decided that the current tactic isn't working. Let's move on to Plan B. Appeal to emotion. Rip their hearts out. Play up the wealth envy and emphasize the poor, poor, pitiful poor that can't afford health insurance (but who, by the way, are eligible for Medicaid).

Things have gotten so bad with this cash for clunkers program that car dealers in New York have withdrawn from the program.

Barack Obama and his two top advisors have been connected to consulting firms that are profiting big-time from the Democrat push for healthcare reform.

Thomas Sowell - "Deception is at the heart of the Democrat's health plan."

Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. might have to break some blue dog kneecaps.

Senate Democrats are apparently determined to pass this healthcare legislation "by any means necessary." Incredible. You'd almost think they didn't have a filibuster-proof majority.

When in doubt, play the blame game.

The outgoing leader of Greenpeace admits that his organization "emotionalizes" issues and then admits that Greenpeace "made a mistake" in claiming that the Arctic Ice will disappear by 2030.
 

GasBandit

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A lot of former Bush administration folks are throwing him under the bus.

The Democrat healthcare bills do say that illegal aliens would not qualify for government health insurance, but then they do not provide any funding or resources to actually verify whether participants are legal or not.

The US is loaning money to Brazil's Petrobras for offshore drilling. Guess who happens to have just bought $2.6 billion in Petrobras stock?

If the Democrats try and split their healthcare bill and use procedural tactics to ram them through without 60 votes, the Republicans may consider shutting down the Senate.

Here's a column from the Washington Post written by an orthopedic surgeon who explains how this healthcare debate affects doctors.

Ted Kennedy is playing politics with his Senate seat .. and this wouldn't be the first time.

One of the White House's most loyal supporters Rep. Emanuel Cleaver says it may be time to "reset" on the health debate.

The White House really needs to get its story straight on the collection of data from these "fishy" emails.

Under the Obama administration, the VA has started issuing end of life planning documents asking them to decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."

The truth about death counseling ... from Charles Krauthammer. No "death panels," but lots of incentive for your doctor to talk to you about ending your suffering.

How many times is Obama going to get away with his "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan," It simply isn't true. Either President Hopey-Changey knows it's not true, which would make him a liar; or he doesn't know it's not true, which would make him ignorant. Must be one or the other.

Yesterday, New York auto dealers said "NO" to the cash-for-clunkers plan. Now dealers in New Mexico are backing out too. They're owed more than $3.6 million in New Mexico ... and so far the Federal Government has written only three checks totalling $14,000. So ... what to do? The federal government will just 86 the program next week.

First we have Barack Obama saying that a government health insurance option is absolutely essential in order to properly reform our healthcare system. Then his Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius goes on a talk show and says that a government option is "not the essential element" of reform. Then the White House has to back pedal and say that the White House was still committed to a government option. That leads to today ... now Barack Obama says that Sebelius did not misspeak and that the government option is not the only way to reform the healthcare system. It's like watching a tennis match.
 
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GasBandit said:
Yesterday, New York auto dealers said \"NO\" to the cash-for-clunkers plan. Now dealers in New Mexico are backing out too. They're owed more than $3.6 million in New Mexico ... and so far the Federal Government has written only three checks totalling $14,000. So ... what to do? The federal government will just 86 the program next week.
Isn't Monday when it was scheduled to end anyway? Is the fact that the checks are going out slowly somehow relevant to the other point?
 
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