The Pope resigns
- Thread starter LordRendar
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Uh, no, I think he was being blatantly sarcastic.
In case it's not obvious enough yet: He's joking.
Haha holy shit. "Jesus Christ is my nigga"
I think I heard your avatar say that just now.
Necronic
Staff member
In a weird way what Benedict did may end up being one of the most progressive moves made by a Pope in a LONG time. Popes usually come into power in their 70s, and will probably continue working into their late 80s or 90s. But the second half of that time they are going through decreased physical and mental capacities, so their overall power and ability to operate is diminished, arguably ceding a lot of control to the College of Cardinals in the process.
By setting a precedent for resignation instead of dying in office he may have significantly strengthened the Papacy. This could be a really good thing. If popes resign when they get too old to do their job we may end up with far more activist Popes.
By setting a precedent for resignation instead of dying in office he may have significantly strengthened the Papacy. This could be a really good thing. If popes resign when they get too old to do their job we may end up with far more activist Popes.
Dave
Staff member
The papacy won't be strengthened until the pope:
- Not only acknowledges priest child abuse and does something about it instead of simply giving empty platitudes and then covering shit up.
- Recognizes and admits that condoms are a major way to cut back on the spread of HIV and other STDs in third-world countries.
- Takes on the church's anti-homosexual stance and acknowledges that homosexuals are just as human as the rest of us.
- Starts allowing women to serve in the church's hierarchy instead of just shoving them off as nuns.
According to you. There are just as many, of not more, voices cryin that the Church lost its power and place with the Vatican Concily and, if anything, should be more conservative in regards to sex.
Remember: the Pope (the last one, in fact, but this one hasn't reversed it) has stated that condoms can be useful against HIV and other STDs...In the case of rape - since any other sex can only be with your partner in marriage. If we all were actually monogamous, STDs would die out (as an STD. You could, of course, still get herpes from a kiss or HIV from a needle, but you can get the flu in the same way). The African church was up in arms about it and tries to keep it quiet; there're plenty of cardinals who'd gladly take that back and say a condom's a Devilish item in and of itself.
Anyway, this Pope was smart, but not a camera's man. Let's hope the next one isn't a great media figure with shit for brains, or things will get ugly fast.
Dave
Staff member
According to the world and those who are past the year 1352.
The world continues to evolve and if the catholic church doesn't also, they'll go the way of the dinosaur. Frankly, I hope that's what happens, but there are countless millions of people who would be harmed in the process. The catholic church has been a particularly destructive force in Africa. They can be held accountable for millions of HIV infected people due to their homophobic and anti-science stances. The catholic church has been a force of evil in the world.
Dave
Staff member
In the history of the Intelligence Squared debate, there has never been a greater swing of opinion in the audience.
Before the debate (Is the Catholic Church a force for Good in the World?):
For: 678
Against: 1102
Don't Know: 346
After the debate:
For: 268
Against: 1876
Don't Know: 34
The Bishop, particularly, was absolutely terrible.
My personal view on religion, for the most part, having grown up Catholic in a very heavy Catholic area is that you shouldn't expect a religion to conform to what you want, you should choose your religion based on what you believe instead. My main problem with Catholicism is that most American Catholics, even ones who claim to be very devout, are "bad Catholics", because they don't follow the religion they are "supposed to follow". I long ago gave up on religion, but honestly, I wish people would do more research on the things they supposedly follow instead of accepting it blindly. Honestly I think it's only a matter of time before the American Catholic Church schisms away from the Vatican, because as a whole, our Church system is more focused on compassion than condemnation (as can be seen by the issues American Nuns are having with said Vatican as an example).
Ugh, I'm getting to question part where the audience asks questions to the panel. I'm sick of the politician woman's essays. Doesn't matter what the question is, she has an unrelated essay to read.
And I'll reiterate what I said. For the record, I'm a deist agnostic and as far as I'm concerned, the world would probably be a better place without the Holy Roman Church.
However, you're still looking at it from a far too culturocentric point of view. For the HRC to survive and be of any impact in the Western world, she'd have to become far more modern and open.
No matter what the Church suddenly starts saying under Lesbian Pope Anya the First (or whomever
), Western Europe isn't suddenly going to desecularize. The USA and Canada aren't going to suddenly see a shift from Protestantism to Catholicism. If the HRC wants to grow, there're only so many markets left.For Southern America, the focus needs to be, even more than now, on liberation, freedom through suffering, hard work and pain will be rewarded in the afterlife.
For Asia and Africa, the way forward is to be a counterweight to Islamic fundamentalism. And while being a counter for extermism by being modern and moderate might sound appealing to us, it's not what works. Unlettered, uneducated peasants deliberately kept poor; a populace exploited by corporations and living in practical slavery; hunger, widespread disease still astoundingly high infant death; corrupt officials in countries without identity other than "oppressor", behold the perfect birthing place for religious zealots and fundamentalists.
The way forward as supported by the vast majority of cardinals and bishops in Africa is by radicalising; not by being wishy-washy sort-of-modern but not quite. Convincing people who are still, very often, living in tribal settings and ruled by chieftains; with even modern villages often having medicine men and a vast majority of the people believing these to be more effective than modern medicine, is not going to happen by a Catholic-Church-turned-Western-values-spreader. It can't. You can't fight every superstition and prejudice all at once, and think you'll get a lot of converts at the same time. Islamic fundamentalist missionaries have a more rousing message, and are far more successful as a result.
I do want to reiterate what I've said before in other places: I do not think religion in general, or christianity (or Catholicism) in specific, is bad, wrong, or anything. People have a right and a freedom to religion. Religious fundamentalism I abhor.
/moar tinfoilhat
you may want to take that foil off your head during a thunderstorm, just sayin'
Dave
Staff member
Man, give that drummer a goatee, and he would look like me at that age.
figmentPez
Staff member
The next pope:
You know, I bet Cat-tholicism could really catch on.
Cajungal
Staff member
I can haz indulgences? I baked you a host... but I eated it.
Dave
Staff member
Very interesting. The Pope said today that he is resigning because of "declining spiritual and physical strength". Now, I understand the physical part, but does anyone else think the "spiritual" strength is an interesting admission? Is the current Pope possibly losing his faith in the church?
If he was then he instantly became more relevant to the younger generations.
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