[TV] Talk about the last TV you watched, the catchall thread

What with all the memes and the praise and the stuff, I decided to give Archer a shot. I watched the first episode, and a couple of later ones from season 4.
And...I dunno. Yes, some of the one liners are funny, and some of the references are cool, but the animation style really annoys me, and I don't think the actual story lines are all that captivating - though that latter one is probably also due to just picking up some random episodes where I'm not invested (enough) in the characters (yet).

Still, I can't see myself watching the whole show. Not a fan of the graphics style.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
What with all the memes and the praise and the stuff, I decided to give Archer a shot. I watched the first episode, and a couple of later ones from season 4.
And...I dunno. Yes, some of the one liners are funny, and some of the references are cool, but the animation style really annoys me, and I don't think the actual story lines are all that captivating - though that latter one is probably also due to just picking up some random episodes where I'm not invested (enough) in the characters (yet).

Still, I can't see myself watching the whole show. Not a fan of the graphics style.
You watched it out of order! Every season has a plot arc, and character development persists through seasons. That said, around season 5 or so it starts to come off the wheels.
 
You watched it out of order! Every season has a plot arc, and character development persists through seasons. That said, around season 5 or so it starts to come off the wheels.
I get that - watching any show out of order will diminish the strength of the story lines, that's only normal. I watched a later episode to see how the style changes - and it doesn't, much, really. It stays the same combination of moving-comic-book-2D-images with deliberately-obvious-3D with semi-realistic stuff which I find off-putting. I like the style in stills. I don't like it in movement.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Star Trek - Deep Space 9:
I'm a good ways into season 2, and there have been a couple episodes so far that have REALLY dropped the ball, but mostly it's good stuff. But oh man, when it's bad, IT IS SO BAD.

Season 2 Episode 15, "Paradise," in particular, with the woman who secretly forced her colony to become a luddite cult was utter shit. There'd been a couple stinkers so far, but this one takes the cake.

"Let's both of us beam down to this planet where we've detected radiation that interferes with comm signals" - Sisko and O'Brien
WHY
Putting aside for the second the COMMANDER and CHIEF OF OPS are apparently off gallavanting through the wormhole ALONE (when this kind of exploration should REALLY be being done by a full blown survey ship instead of two command officers with MUCH more pressing duties), because that just seems to be the crazy shit that goes on around DS9 when adventure isn't finding the station fast enough.
WHY would you BOTH beam down, leaving the runabout EMPTY in orbit, instead of just one guy beaming down with the guy staying on the ship under direction to beam him back up in 3 minutes? Why not LAND the runabout outside the affected area? WHY NOT SEND A SUBSPACE MESSAGE BACK TO DS9 TO TELL THEM WHAT IS GOING ON, OR BETTER YET, CALL FOR AN ACTUAL STARSHIP TO COME INVESTIGATE.
"Durr, nope, we both beam down, and Ohhh, suddenly that interference we detected means we can't call the ship to beam us up again! Darn, we'll have to wait for rescue!" /headdesk

"We've been here ten years" - Colonists
HOW.
The wormhole was discovered, at most, TWO years ago, and you don't even mention it in your origin story anyway. Are you saying you flew the LONG way to the gamma quadrant?

"Your runabout isn't there any more, I set it to fly into the sun (and missed)!" - Luddite Leader
HOW.
Federation ships don't just let anybody "do the thing." Hell, it's been a plot device that the computer routinely countermands O'Brien's orders because what he wants to do is "not recommended." IS FLYING INTO THE SUN RECOMMENDED? But even if you managed to get past that... HOW DID YOU *MISS* the sun?! Do you know how big a star is? Do you know how hard you'd have to TRY to miss?!

"Hmm, two command level officers are missing. We better send the only two remaining command officers, by themselves, to go look for them!" - Dax and Kira
/headdesk

"A Romulan ship said they saw a runabout over here" - Dax
It seems a lesser sin by comparison, but I have a hard time believing a Romulan would be on helpful speaking terms with starfleet at this point. In fact, I'm having a hard time understanding what a Romulan vessel is doing in that area at all. Going through the wormhole would require not only crossing through the neutral zone, but Bajor (being on the edge of Cardassian territory) is on the exact opposite end of Federation space from the Romulan Star Empire - the Romulans would have had to sneak across literally the entirety of Federation Territory. Furthermore, the RSE is also on the wrong side of the Federation to fly the "long" way into the gamma quadrant - it'd be less unlikely for them to be in the Delta quadrant, if anything. Map here - notice the RSE is on the "right hand" side of the federation, and Deep Space 9 is on the "left," right next to Cardassia itself. Side note, I had no idea that Cardassia was so damn close to DS9/Bajor. I would have thought it'd have been a little deeper into Cardassian territory than that.

"Since there's nobody at the helm, we're gonna have to tractor beam the other runabout at warp and drag it to a stop, imperiling both ships" - Dax
I'm pretty sure it's been well established in canon that someone with command codes can remotely log into a federation vessel and get it to stop/shut down. Hell, I know they did it in TNG, and I'm pretty sure it happened even once or twice in TOS. Did the writers of this episode ever even watch Star Trek?

(Chief O'Brien builds a MacGuffin detector by banging rocks together)
/ThrowsUpArmsInHopelessDismay

(Chief O'Brien is discovered banging his rocks together by a vacillating Luddite, who allows O'Brien to knock him unconscious so he'll have an alibi for not turning him in)
WHAT.
Knocking someone unconscious by a blow to the back of the head is NOT HARMLESS. And in case you didn't notice, these guys don't even have electric lights, much less neurologists to check for damage when he wakes up. Would not a large bruise on the luddite's face from a regular punch, followed by him lying down on the ground for a while, have accomplished the same thing WITHOUT RISKING PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE?

And the final insult to the viewer's intelligence -
When the anti-technology field is disabled and Sisko and O'Brien arrest the Luddite leader for essentially sabotage and murder, ALL THE OTHER COLONISTS DECIDE THEY WANT TO STAY AND BE LUDDITES. A child LITERALLY DIED within the last 24 hours for lack of medical supplies that were (to the best of their knowledge) just sitting on a Runabout in orbit, that the leader could have allowed them access to at any time if she just decided that human lives were more important than imposing her philisophical - almost religious - ideals on everyone. In fact, they've starved, frozen, and buried so many friends and family over the last 10 years that Sisko and O'Brien SHOULD have been having to protect the leader from THEM wanting to string the leader up on the spot - or at least put her in the "hotbox" she used to punish others. But no, they just decide "you know, this is just who we're gonna be from now on, the leader was right - life is better without electricity or medicine or toilet paper."

And, as is so typical in too many DS9 episodes, there's no closure. The episode ends with the beamup. TOS, TNG, hell, even Voyager and Enterprise would always have a little "epilogue" scene at the end of an episode saying something to the effect of "well, she was found guilty and she was given this particularly ironic yet humane punishment, haven't we all learned something" etc etc. But I've noticed a distressing tendency for DS9 episodes to end before addressing the consequences of the events of the episode.

If this wasn't 2017 and I wasn't able to immediately watch the next episode because I have them all downloaded... if this had been a weekly real-time broadcast, I think this episode would have been enough for me to write off DS9 as utterly stupid and not worth watching. It's only because it was sandwiched between a good episode and a REALLY good episode that I'm able to keep going.
 
Last edited:
Does anyone ever directly say in the episode say that they are in the gamma quadrant?

Because I went looking for an explanation for that problem and people seem to suggest that they were actually checking planets on our side of the wormhole.

"People were sending requests to set up colonies nearby the wormhole, so Sisko and O'Brien went out to survey nearby Class M planets. There is no mention of Alpha Quadrant or Gamma Quadrant in the episode, but it's unlikely that a Romulan ship would be using the Bajoran Wormhole at that point in time."--Tim Thomason 22:49, 29 Nov 20
 
I like how you think that a series that was constructed almost specifically to deliver palatable social commentary is going to concern itself with authenticity when that authenticity conflicts with that episode's plot. I mean...TRANSPORTERS.

All the Trek series' technology probably secretly runs on lampshades, shoveled in like coal.

--Patrick
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Does anyone ever directly say in the episode say that they are in the gamma quadrant?

Because I went looking for an explanation for that problem and people seem to suggest that they were actually checking planets on our side of the wormhole.

"People were sending requests to set up colonies nearby the wormhole, so Sisko and O'Brien went out to survey nearby Class M planets. There is no mention of Alpha Quadrant or Gamma Quadrant in the episode, but it's unlikely that a Romulan ship would be using the Bajoran Wormhole at that point in time."--Tim Thomason 22:49, 29 Nov 20
I was pretty sure it was on the other side of the wormhole, but I might be mistaken. If it WAS alpha quadrant, that begs the question even HARDER about why Sisko didn't phone home immediately when a wildcat human colony was discovered under odd circumstances.

Furthermore, the Romulan ship would be out of place just as much in the Alpha quadrant as the Gamma - the Federation pretty much walls the RSE off entirely from the Alpha quadrant.

Methinks Tim likes to make excuses for bad writing.[DOUBLEPOST=1507571975,1507571797][/DOUBLEPOST]
I like how you think that a series that was constructed almost specifically to deliver palatable social commentary is going to concern itself with authenticity when that authenticity conflicts with that episode's plot. I mean...TRANSPORTERS.

All the Trek series' technology probably secretly runs on lampshades, shoveled in like coal.

--Patrick
For the most part, though, it is largely consistent, in-universe. This was not.

Also you just basically made the sci-fi equivalent of the "lol you expect any plausibility from a movie with DRAGONS" argumentative fallacy.
 
Last edited:
you just basically made the sci-fi equivalent of the "lol you expect any plausibility from a movie with DRAGONS" argumentative fallacy.
There are plot points, and then there are Plot Points. Transporters are one of those things you just have to take on faith in order for their established universe to work. If you are attempting to draw your parallels between how things work in Trek v. how they work in the real world, then the comparison stands. If, however, you are drawing your comparison between different episodes of the same series, then I am totally with you, because inconsistencies will also punch me out of my suspension of disbelief the same as they apparently do to you.

However, sending command staff on missions where they CLEARLY shouldn't be sent is a long-established part of Trek canon, presumably because they are the luckiest people ever in the history of the galaxy...or more likely because that is who the cameras follow, and so we would never see the stories being told if some member of the command staff wasn't around to justify our "presence."

I remember the episode from seeing it when it first aired, but only just. Perhaps I could also benefit from a rewatching to catch all the stuff that's faded/missed, if I had the time.

--Patrick
 

GasBandit

Staff member
There are plot points, and then there are Plot Points. Transporters are one of those things you just have to take on faith in order for their established universe to work. If you are attempting to draw your parallels between how things work in Trek v. how they work in the real world, then the comparison stands. If, however, you are drawing your comparison between different episodes of the same series, then I am totally with you, because inconsistencies will also punch me out of my suspension of disbelief the same as they apparently do to you.
That's what I meant. All the inconsistencies I pointed out were inconsistencies with show canon, not real life.

However, sending command staff on missions where they CLEARLY shouldn't be sent is a long-established part of Trek canon, presumably because they are the luckiest people ever in the history of the galaxy...or more likely because that is who the cameras follow, and so we would never see the stories being told if some member of the command staff wasn't around to justify our "presence."
Eh, it was mostly done away with in TNG though. Picard sent Riker, Data, and a couple redshirts to check out the whatever. DS9? They don't even have redshirts (which would now be yellow anyway, what with the change in uniform colors) with them anymore. Plus, even in Star Trek, there's a difference between a ship captain and a station commander. Particularly a station that is apparently literal minutes from Cardassia Prime. That the writers couldn't seem to think of enough drama to come to DS9 without sending Sisko out on Wesley-grade dumbassery missions is groanworthy. The writers even admit that this episode was written this way because they wanted a vehicle for showing how brave Sisko was and how strong his convictions were. They expected his crawling back in the hotbox to be his "THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS" moment or something, I guess.
 
Supergirl: Kara grieves over the loss of her boyfriend that everyone hated, and Cat Grant is STILL not a recurring cast member...the fact that I still liked this opener with those two facts takes TALENT!

Flash:

I can't WAIT to see what clever stories we'll see in this opene-

Vibe: I WANT TO DO A SCIENCE!

Iris: DON'T DO A SCIENCE!

Vibe:Okay, I won't...JK I will.

Cait: SCIENCE!

...okay, more of the same I see.

DC Legends of Tomorrow:

Just...just fuck you Rip Hunter, fuck you with a sonic screwdriver. ALSO-when the fuck did he say he was going to make a new Time bureau last season? ALSO-several OTHER things I want to complain about, for fear of spoiling.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
DS9:

I heartily guffawed at a one-appearance-only disposable Cardassian that doomed his own career by doing business with Quark was named "Bohica."

Bend Over, Here It Comes Again!
 
Has Julian done something truly despicable solely to keep his secret yet?

That had to be one of the worst unintentional retcons in tv.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Has Julian done something truly despicable solely to keep his secret yet?

That had to be one of the worst unintentional retcons in tv.
I'm not to the point where his secret is revealed yet (though I remember what it was from watching the original airing years ago). It kinda makes the early episodes where he's beating the pants off of O'Brien in racquetball seem much more cruel, though.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
One of my friends on Facebook made a comment about how DS9 was her favorite Star Trek, and one of her friends responded with this garbage...

"Your favorite series....in ST....is the one about the intergalactic truck stop on the border of the neutral zone?!?!?"

Border of the what now? That flagrant error aside, how the hell do you call DS9 a truck stop? It's a major trade hub between multiple civilizations. It's fucking Casablanca.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
One of my friends on Facebook made a comment about how DS9 was her favorite Star Trek, and one of her friends responded with this garbage...

"Your favorite series....in ST....is the one about the intergalactic truck stop on the border of the neutral zone?!?!?"

Border of the what now? That flagrant error aside, how the hell do you call DS9 a truck stop? It's a major trade hub between multiple civilizations. It's fucking Casablanca.
Early in DS9's run, I often disparagingly referenced it by saying "To boldly sit in a shopping mall and wait for something interesting to happen." Your friend probably never got far enough into it for it to get good.
 
Early in DS9's run, I often disparagingly referenced it by saying "To boldly sit in a shopping mall and wait for something interesting to happen." Your friend probably never got far enough into it for it to get good.
B5 had no shortage of Zocalo shots...but yeah, you're right. DS9 did sometimes feel like an indoor mall where things would occasionally explode.

--Patrick
 

GasBandit

Staff member
B5 had no shortage of Zocalo shots...but yeah, you're right. DS9 did sometimes feel like an indoor mall where things would occasionally explode.

--Patrick
B5 and DS9 also moved at entirely different paces. DS9 tried to maintain TNG's palpably... stately, languid pace, whereas B5 was a little bit more breakneck and unpredictable. There has really only been one or two big WHAM moments, whereas every 4th or 5th B5 episode had some kind of major reveal.

Also, I'm 2 seasons into DS9 and the station has been attacked exactly once. By the end of B5's second season, there'd been combat around the station at least 10 times.
 
One of my friends on Facebook made a comment about how DS9 was her favorite Star Trek, and one of her friends responded with this garbage...

"Your favorite series....in ST....is the one about the intergalactic truck stop on the border of the neutral zone?!?!?"

Border of the what now? That flagrant error aside, how the hell do you call DS9 a truck stop? It's a major trade hub between multiple civilizations. It's fucking Casablanca.
Wasn't that the pitching idea? That it's Casablanca in space or was that Babylon 5?"

Early in DS9's run, I often disparagingly referenced it by saying "To boldly sit in a shopping mall and wait for something interesting to happen." Your friend probably never got far enough into it for it to get good.
That discribes Jakes and Nogs roles inn the first seasons perfectly.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
DS9-

"Past Tense"

The first of the obligatory time travel 2-parters that every Trek gets (multiple times), and this one feels super contrived. A "passing singularity" energizes residual chroniton particles in the hull to force - what else - a transporter malfunction. I'm not even going to get into the massive plot hole of teleporting BACK from the past... what mostly irritated me was the constant anvilicious handwringing of "how could we have ever let things get so bad? When will humanity learn? All you have to do is DECIDE poverty isn't a thing and then it isn't."

Look, I know Star Trek is, as Patrthom succinctly put it, social commentary in a light, sweet, sci-fi candy shell. But this was slathering it on eyerollingly thick. The other two dozen episodes since I last posted though have ranged from pretty good to really good. It's just amazing how uniquely erratic and unpredictable the writing quality is in all Trek serieses. It seems to be part of what makes Star Trek... Star Trek.
 
And then in Enterprise they just said "fuck it, this entire season is about time travel."
I'm pretty sure every plot in Enterprise started with "Fuck it."

"Fuck it, the Vulcan chick gives a naked oil massage because spacesuits."

"Fuck it, the Andorrians are terrorists who try and take Vulcans hostage."

"Fuck it, the butt monkey has an alien seahorse baby."
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I'm pretty sure every plot in Enterprise started with "Fuck it."

"Fuck it, the Vulcan chick gives a naked oil massage because spacesuits."

"Fuck it, the Andorrians are terrorists who try and take Vulcans hostage."

"Fuck it, the butt monkey has an alien seahorse baby."
THAT'S that guy!

On the "alien wants to sex with Holosuite Kira" episode, I knew I recognized the alien's voice, and I was all "this is driving me nuts, I know that voice."

I correctly guessed that he was the same voice as The Question on JLU, but I knew there was more to it. Shran. He's the Andorian guy, Shran on Enterprise.

Jeffrey Combs.
 
And then in Enterprise they just said "fuck it, this entire season is about time travel."
At least the storyline regarding the Temporal Cold War grew into something interesting, coming Star Trek Online.

They do the time travel thing a few more times in the series. They generally handle it much better (or at least are more interesting) than this two parter.
 
THAT'S that guy!

On the "alien wants to sex with Holosuite Kira" episode, I knew I recognized the alien's voice, and I was all "this is driving me nuts, I know that voice."

I correctly guessed that he was the same voice as The Question on JLU, but I knew there was more to it. Shran. He's the Andorian guy, Shran on Enterprise.

Jeffrey Combs.

You mean Weyoun?
 
It's just amazing how uniquely erratic and unpredictable the writing quality is in all Trek serieses. It seems to be part of what makes Star Trek... Star Trek.
Just be glad none of 'em were written by Stephen R. Donaldson.
THAT'S that guy!
On the "alien wants to sex with Holosuite Kira" episode, I knew I recognized the alien's voice, and I was all "this is driving me nuts, I know that voice."
I correctly guessed that he was the same voice as The Question on JLU, but I knew there was more to it. Shran. He's the Andorian guy, Shran on Enterprise.
Jeffrey Combs.
It bugged us, too, until we realized he's Weyoun from DS9.

--Patrick
 
Love Jeffrey Combs.

One of the great b-movie character actors.

Read a rumor way back when that had Enterprise gone to a 5th season, Shran would have ended up a crew member.
 
Top