Bullying to Death. What's the deal?

[Norris]

Sounds like a personal problem you might wanna look into.

Defending yourself is a conscious choice to stop the bullying, not going apeshit when you can't take it anymore a la Ralphie from A Christmas Story, or Columbine massacre. You make a choice to stop the bullshit and if it stops, you don't continue pushing for dominance. As has been said, bullies are typically cowards. If you're no longer an easy target, they'll go find someone who is.

Or maybe I was just going by stories posted earlier in this thread, as examples of positive behavior, where the person reacting to the was not exactly behaving that well:

Got bullied some early in high school. At first I didn't react and then one day in gym class I lost it and jumped the bully and punch him in the face a few times. As he lay on the ground in the fetal position and I towered over him, I begged him to get up and try to give me a hard time again and that this was going to happen again. He ran to the teacher and I got suspended for 2 days. When I came back, the roles were reversed and I made damn sure he and all his "laughing" buddies knew of it.
If you don't stand up for yourself, you'll always be the bitch. And if you worry about losing the fight, don't. Just be a lunatic about it, THAT is what sets the mark. Because you don't want people to simply THINK of messing around with you.
...
PS: I tried to shove the butt of my hockey stick up that bully's ass once while screaming "he shoots he scores" simply because he decided to give a good friend of mine a hard time after I thought him a lesson. Guess what? He learned not to tell the teachers at that point and he sure as hell left my friend alone. I bet that's the exact thought that comes into his mind when he watches hockey.

The fines and suspensions are worth it. My friend in high school was constantly bullied by this one goomba, motherfucker. One day in shop the bully burned my friend's arm with liquid bronze. That's all it took. Geoff snapped. He leaped onto the goomba and wailed on him with a wrench. He was suspended for like a week, but that bully never fucked with him again. Same guy tried to fuck with me once. By this point I assumed people knew not to fuck with me, but I belted him in the gut once to get the point across. I don't think he ever spoke to me again.

Leaping a dude Ralphie-style, attempted sodomy (which he hopes the guy remembers painfully to this day), explicitly stating that the bully-victim roles were reversed, and Chaz's friend assaulting a dude with a deadly weapon. These don't sound like dudes taken measured action to get the bully to stop. These sound like people losing control. Between the options of just letting it roll off my back and going psycho on someone with a wrench, I'd rather go the route that will never land me an attempted murder charge.

Also, this whole "use force" idea assumes there is one or two central tormentors. When the vast majority of a student body knows you better as "Rudolph" (because your acne is centered on your nose) and utter strangers will serenade you with a jolly Christmas tune as you walk past, who do you punch to make the problem go away? Or when your entire class in elementary school plays a sick game of tag called "Walker Germs" in which you are always it and therefore no one wants to be near you, not even in class, who do you go lunatic on? The answers is - no one. You do your best to ignore it and pay attention to your friends. If you are depressed enough over high school bullshit (because bullying is bullshit and it does end) to end it all, seek help. I don't mean that in the condescending way. I mean seriously find someone you can talk to, because it does get better. You just need to find your way to cope.

 

[Cajungal]

Six is right when he says "the rest of your days." Bullying is different later in life, but it still exists. And if you don't set a precedent early for standing up for yourself, there's a good chance of being a victim and a doormat in every stage of your life. I don't like violence; I don't welcome the opportunity to harm someone. But if I had thought at one time, after exhausting all other options, that violence would be the only way to get someone to leave me alone, you can be sure I'd have tried it. You have to think of others, but you have to take care of yourself as well.

I can certainly not understand wanting to "stoop to their level," but the goal of violence is different when you're defending yourself. You don't want to be merciless; you just want to deliver a message in a way that they'll understand: "I'm not weak; you can't do this to me." Jake had moments like that as a kid--being tormented by a kid and school. Jake doesn't have a temper, but he knows he doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. He fought the kid to defend himself and won. None of the teachers wanted to punish him, because he was simply drawing a line for the other kid. He didn't belabor it; he just made his statement and then walked away.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Jake doesn't have a temper, but he knows he doesn't deserve that kind of treatment.

This is the disturbing precedent a person can set for themselves: that they deserve to be treated as the bully treats them, and it often can follow through life.

Norris still sounds like a man with some deep-rooted issues.

I don't have an answer for the cyber-bullying or group prejudice of these gay kids. I'd say get off Facebook and do something else with your time, but I have no answer for a kid who's being treated like shit by many students for his/her sexuality.

 

[Norris]

Norris still sounds like a man with some deep-rooted issues.

Really? How so?

EDIT: I will say that if the bully has gotten physical with you, you have the right to defend yourself. Defend, not escalate. But the vast majority of bullying in my experience has been verbal. Throwing a punch because someone said something mean is, to me, a bigger sign of weakness than just ignoring it. It is you standing up and saying "I can't handle words, and solve problems with my fists" and THAT is a mindset that will lead to you getting into bard fights, getting assault charges, and just generally being a violent prick later in life. You don't punch people over words. Ever.

 

[Cajungal]

^I agree with you, Es. I don't like to automatically blame technology for things like this, but targeting insecure people online is like shooting fish in a barrel. And the people who didn't have the guts to attack people in real life can lash out online because, let's face it, plenty of people say things online that they'd never say to someone's face. With or without technology, there will always be bullying. But I remember when home was my sanctuary. I knew that, for about 12 hours, I would be safe and the people who hated me for some reason couldn't touch me. If I'd have had internet when I was a kid, I wouldn't have plastered my life all over it, knowing there were people waiting to tear me down.

 

[Chazwozel]

Norris still sounds like a man with some deep-rooted issues.

Really? How so?[/QUOTE]


I dunno...

When the vast majority of a student body knows you better as "Rudolph" (because your acne is centered on your nose) and utter strangers will serenade you with a jolly Christmas tune as you walk past, who do you punch to make the problem go away? Or when your entire class in elementary school plays a sick game of tag called "Walker Germs" in which you are always it and therefore no one wants to be near you, not even in class, who do you go lunatic on? The answers is - no one. You do your best to ignore it and pay attention to your friends. If you are depressed enough over high school bullshit (because bullying is bullshit and it does end) to end it all, seek help. I don't mean that in the condescending way. I mean seriously find someone you can talk to, because it does get better. You just need to find your way to cope.

Sounds like a fucked up childhood to me.

 

[Norris]

Sounds like a fucked up childhood to me.

Yeah, the bullying was pretty fucked up. It sucked. Which is why I prefer to look back and remember the block parties with my friends, the folks I met through choir class, the times I had hanging out with my buddy Nick's family, and meeting all the people I'm still friends with to this day. It was fucked up, and I admit to having a minor phobia of facing crowds alone. But you know what? It doesn't stop me from going out into the world and doing what I need to do. And no insult I've received in years had measured up to that bullshit from so long ago. So yeah, third through eighth grade was kind of fucked up. Everything since then has been kind of great.

 

[Cajungal]

I'm glad you were able to come back from it. I know a couple of people who haven't completely, and I feel for them.

 

[SpecialKO]

There's a strange confusion on one side of this argument, it sounds, that thinks that physically standing up to bullies means going all "Death Wish" on their asses. No one is saying that you need to start taking out bullies preemptively, or bringing an assault rifle to school.

Being able to sort out the problem without resorting to violence is always preferable. I don't think anyone sane would disagree with that. But when someone is kicking the crap out of you and stealing your stuff, you need to fight back and stop them.

Or it really will continue, and the best you'll be able to hope for is that at some point in the future, the good parts of your life will help you forget. Screw that noise.

 

[North_Ranger]

What other way is there when you're dealing with a bully? How'd settling your differences work out for you (other then being someone's bitch and getting choked)? You said that this continued through high school? Sounds like you should have put your money where your mouth is and knocked a few heads. You're always bragging about your hulking size and intimidating appearance. Why didn't you ever put it to use? Don't give me that "stooping to their level," bullshit. Yeah, you took the moral high ground...

Here you are 15-20 years later and I bet you still remember all the shit you got in high school as if it happened yesterday. I bet your tormentors barely register your face or name on the radar.

(1.) The choking was the tip of the iceberg, the one moment of intense violence I remember clearly. Not only because it was the only time I feared I was going to fie, but also because of the revelation that followed.
(2.) I was 13. How many hulking 13-year-olds do you happen to know?
(3.) The situation turned better for me. The guy who choked me was transferred to another school, the bullying dropped down to levels that barely registered on my radar, and a few years ago I met this bully again. We were both adults about the situation, he apologised and explained himself (he had issues, and no, I won't go into detail about that), and we moved on with our respective lives.
(4.) Oh, and how to deal with bullies other than through violence? I learned that one of the assholes who kept at me had a spinal issue, one that he tried to hide. I let him know that if he keeps pushing me, everyone will learn how he really is a spineless bastard. How's that being a bitch, huh?

Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...

I only blame the victim if they continue to play the part of the victim. Stand up for yourself and stop being someone's bitch.[/QUOTE]

Oh get over yourself...

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------

Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean it as in "they are weak and deserved this". That would be cruel and undeserving for these kids, and I'm actually a bit hurt you thought I suggested it. I'm merely advocating against the current school culture that treats acts of self defense the same as acts of oppression. Things like Zero Tolerance promote an image that it's not OK to defend yourself (if your try to push away the guy who took a swing at you, you get the same punishment) and I personally feel like this is raising a generation of people just waiting to be victimized later in life... and it's all being done to make things easier on the administration.

I know there's no easy way to promote this and I know it doesn't always happen in places where people can help them, but without a way for children to work this kind of thing out on their own, we're just going to see more tragedies.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry if I misconstrued you, Ash. As you may have noticed, this is something of a personal topic for me, and part of my childhood that I have since used to be a better person. Part of the reason why I chose to become a teacher was that I hoped to make a difference: if, as a teacher, I can help even a single pupil avoid the shit I had to go through, I know I've made this world even a tad better place. But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

 

[SpecialKO]

But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

I will point out that when he is physically on your back, your options are somewhat limited.

I don't disagree in principle N_R, but you have to realize that, as a systemic problem in the American public school system, peaceful conflict resolution can be difficult when school administrations/boards are incentivised, top down, to have as few disciplinary reports in their books as possible. If you're an administrator, you secure funding for your school by having its paper record be as bright and shining as possible, so you don't get involved in student discipline problems. If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

 

[North_Ranger]

But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

I will point out that when he is physically on your back, your options are somewhat limited.

I don't disagree in principle N_R, but you have to realize that, as a systemic problem in the American public school system, peaceful conflict resolution can be difficult when school administrations/boards are incentivised, top down, to have as few disciplinary reports in their books as possible. If you're an administrator, you secure funding for your school by having its paper record be as bright and shining as possible, so you don't get involved in student discipline problems. If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

...

Man, that's just fucked up beyond all reason.

 

[SpecialKO]

But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

I will point out that when he is physically on your back, your options are somewhat limited.

I don't disagree in principle N_R, but you have to realize that, as a systemic problem in the American public school system, peaceful conflict resolution can be difficult when school administrations/boards are incentivised, top down, to have as few disciplinary reports in their books as possible. If you're an administrator, you secure funding for your school by having its paper record be as bright and shining as possible, so you don't get involved in student discipline problems. If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

...

Man, that's just fucked up beyond all reason.[/QUOTE]

It's not that bad everywhere, obviously. It's just that when you combine bullying with a school admin that is actively disinterested in getting involved, which is a fairly frequent American school phenom, it can be real bad for the kids who don't know how to defend themselves and aren't Veronica Mars.

 

[Disconnected]

It's not that bad everywhere, obviously. It's just that when you combine bullying with a school admin that is actively disinterested in getting involved, which is a fairly frequent American school phenom, it can be real bad for the kids who don't know how to defend themselves and aren't Veronica Mars.

so Chaz is veronica mars? finally the truth.

 

[Chazwozel]

It's not that bad everywhere, obviously. It's just that when you combine bullying with a school admin that is actively disinterested in getting involved, which is a fairly frequent American school phenom, it can be real bad for the kids who don't know how to defend themselves and aren't Veronica Mars.

so Chaz is veronica mars? finally the truth.[/QUOTE]


Vera De Milo

 

[Tress]

If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

I've never had this problem, and never heard a single colleague complain of anything like that. Do you have an article or source I can read?

 

[Chazwozel]

What other way is there when you're dealing with a bully? How'd settling your differences work out for you (other then being someone's bitch and getting choked)? You said that this continued through high school? Sounds like you should have put your money where your mouth is and knocked a few heads. You're always bragging about your hulking size and intimidating appearance. Why didn't you ever put it to use? Don't give me that "stooping to their level," bullshit. Yeah, you took the moral high ground...

Here you are 15-20 years later and I bet you still remember all the shit you got in high school as if it happened yesterday. I bet your tormentors barely register your face or name on the radar.

(1.) The choking was the tip of the iceberg, the one moment of intense violence I remember clearly. Not only because it was the only time I feared I was going to fie, but also because of the revelation that followed.
(2.) I was 13. How many hulking 13-year-olds do you happen to know?
(3.) The situation turned better for me. The guy who choked me was transferred to another school, the bullying dropped down to levels that barely registered on my radar, and a few years ago I met this bully again. We were both adults about the situation, he apologised and explained himself (he had issues, and no, I won't go into detail about that), and we moved on with our respective lives.
(4.) Oh, and how to deal with bullies other than through violence? I learned that one of the assholes who kept at me had a spinal issue, one that he tried to hide. I let him know that if he keeps pushing me, everyone will learn how he really is a spineless bastard. How's that being a bitch, huh?

Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...

I only blame the victim if they continue to play the part of the victim. Stand up for yourself and stop being someone's bitch.[/QUOTE]

Oh get over yourself...

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------

Except it's clear that not everyone is strong enough to do this. If they were, we wouldn't have dead kids. Maybe if these kids had been able to stand up against the people who tormented them, they'd still be here.

Blaming the victim, Ash? That's classy...[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean it as in "they are weak and deserved this". That would be cruel and undeserving for these kids, and I'm actually a bit hurt you thought I suggested it. I'm merely advocating against the current school culture that treats acts of self defense the same as acts of oppression. Things like Zero Tolerance promote an image that it's not OK to defend yourself (if your try to push away the guy who took a swing at you, you get the same punishment) and I personally feel like this is raising a generation of people just waiting to be victimized later in life... and it's all being done to make things easier on the administration.

I know there's no easy way to promote this and I know it doesn't always happen in places where people can help them, but without a way for children to work this kind of thing out on their own, we're just going to see more tragedies.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry if I misconstrued you, Ash. As you may have noticed, this is something of a personal topic for me, and part of my childhood that I have since used to be a better person. Part of the reason why I chose to become a teacher was that I hoped to make a difference: if, as a teacher, I can help even a single pupil avoid the shit I had to go through, I know I've made this world even a tad better place. But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.[/QUOTE]

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

 

[Jay]

Seems like this forum had a lot of bitches Chaz.

 

[Norris]

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that you're being intentionally obtuse. At least I think you are.

 

[SpecialKO]

If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

I've never had this problem, and never heard a single colleague complain of anything like that. Do you have an article or source I can read?[/QUOTE]

Purely anecdotal, I admit, from friends in the NYC public school system. One of them was actually told straight out to not get involved because the administration would handle it (they didn't).

 

[Tress]

Ah, the infamously incompetent NYC public school system. That makes sense.

 

[sixpackshaker]

I've likely mentioned this before, I was the guy that took up for the small kids in school, so I had a reputation. One day a new kid transferred in and he thought he would gain a reputation by sucker punching the tough guy on the recess yard (me). I went to greet the new guy, he said something about my rep and hit me in the gut as hard as he could, while I had my hand out to shake his. I doubled over of a second, stood up to fight, and saw that kid on the ground with 3 of the small kids on him and a dozen more coming to help. Those kids never had a problem after that. They had an alliance...

of course that is also how street gangs start...

---------- Post added at 04:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------

But I still believe that throwing a punch should be your last option, not the master key to getting that cretin off your back.

I will point out that when he is physically on your back, your options are somewhat limited.

I don't disagree in principle N_R, but you have to realize that, as a systemic problem in the American public school system, peaceful conflict resolution can be difficult when school administrations/boards are incentivised, top down, to have as few disciplinary reports in their books as possible. If you're an administrator, you secure funding for your school by having its paper record be as bright and shining as possible, so you don't get involved in student discipline problems. If you're a teacher, and stop an incident of bullying, and then the administration refuses to back you or punish the bully, your authority as a teacher has just been publically undermined, and the bullied kid will probably get it even worse, and it can affect your chances of securing a raise/tenure.

It gets to the "last option" a lot faster when so many of the "first" options are specifically undermined by the system.

Bullying rarely happens where there is direct supervision. It happens at the bus stop before school, in the hallways between class, in overcrowded phys ed classes... and when a teacher sees bullying behavior it will look like an isolated incident, not a prolonged issue. A teacher will see those kids for 3 hours a week, compared to the 40-50 hours a kid is in school for that week.

 

[North_Ranger]

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

You know what? I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer. Come back when you're willing to discuss like a human being, not like a troll.

 

[Chazwozel]

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that you're being intentionally obtuse. At least I think you are.[/QUOTE]

I am with NR because whatever he writes is about 10lbs of shit in a 5lbs sack.

---------- Post added at 07:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

You know what? I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer. Come back when you're willing to discuss like a human being, not like a troll.[/QUOTE]

Because that's what you're going to do, right? How much are you going to pursue without enough evidence? Are you going to follow bullied students to their bus-stop? Are you going to be biased towards your grading of bullies in your classroom? How do you know they're bullies? It's all well and good to say you're going to stop it; it's another thing to put it into practice. You're so full of shit.

---------- Post added at 08:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------

Seems like this forum had a lot of bitches Chaz.

It certainly looks like you can punch them in the nose, watch them sniffle a bit and then walk away. But, hark, they're morally superior (in their mind).

 

[North_Ranger]

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that you're being intentionally obtuse. At least I think you are.[/QUOTE]

I am with NR because whatever he writes is about 10lbs of shit in a 5lbs sack.[/QUOTE]

And trying to have a reasonable argument with you is like trying to take a bath and finding out that the tub is full of shit. Now, it is my fault for slipping into that tub, but at least I have the good sense to get out.

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

You know what? I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer. Come back when you're willing to discuss like a human being, not like a troll.[/QUOTE]

Because that's what you're going to do, right? How much are you going to pursue without enough evidence? Are you going to follow bullied students to their bus-stop? Are you going to be biased towards your grading of bullies in your classroom? How do you know they're bullies? It's all well and good to say you're going to stop it; it's another thing to put it into practice. You're so full of shit. [/QUOTE]

You know, I might have answered that if you hadn't added that highlighted sentence in the end. It tells me you're not really interested in hearing how I put my training as a teacher to practice; you're just interested in finding a topic that you know nothing about, pull claims out of your ass and get a hard-on from thinking you're oh so much more clever than people who actually know what they're doing. So me trying to argue with you is a practice in futility and wanking your John Thomas, and neither of those activities is of any interest to me.

Have fun in your tub-o'-shit, Shak Alum.

 

[Chazwozel]

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that you're being intentionally obtuse. At least I think you are.[/QUOTE]

I am with NR because whatever he writes is about 10lbs of shit in a 5lbs sack.[/QUOTE]

And trying to have a reasonable argument with you is like trying to take a bath and finding out that the tub is full of shit. Now, it is my fault for slipping into that tub, but at least I have the good sense to get out.

So what you're essentially going to do is transfer all your pent up emotions on students that happen to be bullies?

You know what? I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer. Come back when you're willing to discuss like a human being, not like a troll.[/QUOTE]

Because that's what you're going to do, right? How much are you going to pursue without enough evidence? Are you going to follow bullied students to their bus-stop? Are you going to be biased towards your grading of bullies in your classroom? How do you know they're bullies? It's all well and good to say you're going to stop it; it's another thing to put it into practice. You're so full of shit. [/QUOTE]

You know, I might have answered that if you hadn't added that highlighted sentence in the end. It tells me you're not really interested in hearing how I put my training as a teacher to practice; you're just interested in finding a topic that you know nothing about, pull claims out of your ass and get a hard-on from thinking you're oh so much more clever than people who actually know what they're doing. So me trying to argue with you is a practice in futility and wanking your John Thomas, and neither of those activities is of any interest to me.

Have fun in your tub-o'-shit, Shak Alum.[/QUOTE]

I know plenty about teaching, it's my job. And I know it's not so cut and dry to get involved with student affairs. You think you're the only teacher in the world who wants to stop bullying? You're either really naive or really dumb.

 

[makare]

I was never bullied but I had guy friends who were. They generally did the ignore them and they'll go away method and it worked. I think bullying is a pretty personal thing and how you should handle it depends on the situation.

Also, some kids are just assholes. I learned that teaching FIVE YEAR OLDS. I can't imagine it changes as they get older.

 

[Krisken]

Yeah, cause if anyone knows about bullying, it's Chaz.

 

[Adam]

Getting back to the topic of discussion, bullying has and always will be a significant problem in schools, just by virtue of kids being kids. Look how Lord of the Flies ended up for crying out loud!

I do, however, get the sense that some parents have not given their kids the tools to cope with adversity such as bullying, whether that's standing up to it and popping the bully in the nose, redirecting that frustration into other worthwhile pursuits such as hobbies, sports, technology, etc. When Little Johnny Snowflake first gets the sense that he isn't the center of the universe, that can be a cold splash of water on one's face.

That said, there are sadist bullies out there, lord knows I encountered enough of them at school being a year younger and a foot shorter than everyone else throughout high school. While it's satisfying to me now that most are in jail or dead, that doesn't really help at the time. I think the best thing for kids is to build strong relationships with peers; friends will support you when parents/administrators cannot - I know I would have spent much more time stuffed in lockers had it not been for the timely intervention of some friends.

 

[MindDetective]

This entire thread is facepalm worthy. The truth of the matter is that bullying is a complex issue that involves hormones, innate dominance behaviors, social pressuring, modeling for adults and peers, and stimulus-response learning, among other things. Punishment will rarely fix bullying, I'm pretty sure. Fighting back might sometimes, but it could also make things worse, especially if you fail when fighting back. I think there CAN be a non-violent solution, but it requires an understanding of the important factors involved, such as the social network, physical development, etc. What we need is an evidence-based approach that figures the problem out, not wildly punishing or encouraging violence as people see fit. Until then, it will be like it always is, with bullies and victims playing their respective roles as they have since our tribal ancestors.

 

[North_Ranger]

I know plenty about teaching, it's my job. And I know it's not so cut and dry to get involved with student affairs. You think you're the only teacher in the world who wants to stop bullying? You're either really naive or really dumb.

You could have fooled me...

The point still stands, I will not argue this with you since you're clearly more interested in ad hominems than the actual topic.

 

[GasBandit]

The problem is the systematic, agregate wussification of the youth of our nation. Do you remember when playground equipment was metal and wood? When scholastic aptitude was more important to grades than self esteem? When you could catch a bad bounce to the face on a grounder and NOT have lawyers get involved? When your personality dysfunctions were YOUR fault, your responsibility to correct, and not summarized by an acronym for which there was a pill to treat? When it was not abnormal to be expected to wait 6 to 8 weeks for delivery? When a doctor could tell you you needed to lose weight without fearing litigation? .... When people DIDN'T kill themselves because of bullying?

Kids have always been mean, vindictive little backstabbers. What's changed is the softness of the targets.

 

[phil]

Every generation thinks the younger one is a bunch of pussies and punks. It's probably not all that much different.

 

[ScytheRexx]

I find this thread kind of humorous, in a disturbing way. Not the OP obviously, as that is sad and tragic, just the replies for it.

I used to be bullied a lot as a kid. I actually let it get to me up till 6th grade or so, and that was more because of other issues I was having at home making me not feel very safe anywhere. My nerves were not the best.

As I started going into 7th grade, I just started not caring as much. If someone tried to bully me I would just stare directly at them for awhile to "read" them, never say a word, and if they came off as a coward bully I just leaned my head over, got a little closer, then walked away. They usually would never mess with me again as long as I showed them I was not afraid or really affected by the taunts.

If they came off as a violent bully I would try the same tactic, but if they threw a kick I would block any attacks showing them I was not helpless, as I knew martial arts, but I never hit them back. When I went into 8th grade I even started my "goth" phase, where I wore mostly black shirts, slick hair, and sunglasses everywhere at school.

I never was bullied again.

Sometimes you just have to be a stone rather then a fist, but the worst thing you can be is a wall made of sticks.

 

[GasBandit]

Every generation thinks the younger one is a bunch of pussies and punks.

Pretty much every generation at least as far back as the 40s has been right.