M
makare
Yeah that's nice, but now that that rant is over let's talk about how to deal with the bullying problem and not the inability of some people to accept that times have changed.
Bullying to Death. What's the deal?
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GasBandit
Staff member
Yeah that's nice, but now that that rant is over let's talk about how to deal with the bullying problem and not the inability of some people to accept that times have changed.[/QUOTE]
Why is a shrugged "times have changed" an acceptable rebuttal to my statement, but somehow fails to be acceptable as an explanation for the original question? Yes, times have changed. It was asked why X is happening. Because X is happening because Y is happening. Why is Y happening? Because "times have changed." Here's a flash: Times can change in the other direction, too. How times change is a collective societal decision.
M
makare
Yeah that's nice, but now that that rant is over let's talk about how to deal with the bullying problem and not the inability of some people to accept that times have changed.[/QUOTE]
Why is a shrugged "times have changed" an acceptable rebuttal to my statement, but somehow fails to be acceptable as an explanation for the original question? Yes, times have changed. It was asked why X is happening. Because X is happening because Y is happening. Why is Y happening? Because "times have changed." Here's a flash: Times can change in the other direction, too. How times change is a collective societal decision.[/QUOTE]
So your only solution to this problem is to change the fundamental nature of society? Helpful.
GasBandit
Staff member
Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.
I reject that coddling is fundamental. Systemic, yes. But not intrinsic.
Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.[/quote]
I'll take that over an old man shaking his cane and telling kids to get off his lawn.
M
makare
Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.
I reject that coddling is fundamental. Systemic, yes. But not intrinsic.[/QUOTE]
Chaz is bullying NR in an attempt to help us visualize how serious the problem of bullying is.
Also, we should pick sides. I pick NR because he is so sweet and cuddly.
GasBandit
Staff member
Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.[/quote]
I'll take that over an old man shaking his cane and telling kids to get off his lawn.[/QUOTE]
I'd be more worried about which you'd choose if you weren't so wussified, you whippersnapper.
Necronic
Staff member
I actually agree with you, with two exceptions (which are bolded).
First, an expansion on your subject and the parts I agree with. I work with my hands. In many ways I am effectively a plumber (that does more exotic plumbing.) Its somewhat hard manual work, but its not as difficult as something like construction work. I think part of the problem is that too few people these days do hard manual labor, and fewer kids do it. Building something with your hands is one of the most truly humanizing things you can do. To take an assortment of items that alone have little purpose, and to create something of value that wouldn't exist without your interference is a great feeling. I think the death of woodshop/autoshop/*shop in high-schools is sad, and I think too many of the kids in this generation (which somewhat includes me) get away with spending all their time creating ephemeral objects through computers, or just experiencing things others have made (gaming for example).
Growing up and never creating anything of value will lead you to believe that you have no value, which, sadly, is kind of true. Boy Scouts did a hell of a lot for me as a kid, knowing that there were things I could do that no one else could. It still pissed me off when people gave me a hard time, but having a core self-esteem to fall back on was critical.
Maybe this is enough for many cases of bullying. From the story linked, some of the bullying that occurred went well beyond this into the realm of wholly unnacceptable. The school should have done something to stop some of this. If the bullying had been a bunch of white kids using racism against a black kid, that would have been incredibly innapropriate right? In the case of that girl there are similarities. Basically if you are raised in an intense enough level of bullying it is almost identical to systematic racism, and it will have the same effects on the psyche of a person in the long run.
Now, on to the parts I disagree with. First, the bullying to death. Well, I guess what I said above covers that. I think that there are instances where it isn't just a matter of 'suck it up' or 'its all just a part of growing up', where it is tantamount to a crime. I don't know where you draw that line. The girls making jokes at the girl's funeral may be an example, but to be totally honest, me and some friends made jokes about a classmate that died (to be fair he wasn't a victim of bullying, he was driving a little recklessly.) Kids can be messed up.
The other part I disagree with (somewhat) is the personality disorder. It depends on what you are talking about, but there are things that really do need to be treated at a young age, and for a long time people didn't understand these illnesses and treated the affected individual incredibly poorly. Examples would be BAP (Broader Autism Phenotype), Dyslexia, and certain types of depression to name a few. Guess you weren't talking about those, but back in the day they would have been considered a personality disorder, so maybe some of the stuff you are talking about will one day be understood to be a much more serious condition.
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Chazwozel
Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.
I reject that coddling is fundamental. Systemic, yes. But not intrinsic.[/QUOTE]
Chaz is bullying NR in an attempt to help us visualize how serious the problem of bullying is.
Also, we should pick sides. I pick NR because he is so sweet and cuddly.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and notice how NR backs off instead of standing his fucking ground...
M
makare
Or NR recognizes futility when he sees it. I respect that.
GasBandit
Staff member
No, you're correct. I was talking about ADD/ADHD. Woman at work today told me she was ADHD and that's why she couldn't pay attention to her work, almost had to choke a bitch.
North_Ranger
Staff member
Thank you. You were right on the money with that analysis of the situation.
Oh, I'm sorry, Ill let you get back to watching Chaz and North Ranger tell each other to eat shit and die for a few more pages.[/quote]
I'll take that over an old man shaking his cane and telling kids to get off his lawn.[/QUOTE]
I'd be more worried about which you'd choose if you weren't so wussified, you whippersnapper.[/QUOTE]
:'(
No, you're correct. I was talking about ADD/ADHD. Woman at work today told me she was ADHD and that's why she couldn't pay attention to her work, almost had to choke a bitch.[/QUOTE]
I find it funny that you happened to make these comments on a day where a good friend of mine forgot her ADD meds and she suffered a notable loss of focus in class. Just because something is somewhat over diagnosed, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Also - every playground I've ever been to in my life has been made primarily from metal or wood. And how does the introduction of faster shipping options as technology and competition streamline the delivery process represent a wussification of our society? Is it not better to receive your packages within ten to twenty business days? The rest of your examples strike me as the kind of thing someone who gets most of their understanding about modern parenting from news articles. The vast majority of parents aren't that much more cautious than those of the previous generation.
Though I have noted that there seems to be an inverse relationship between the actual safety of a child's environment and the parental perception of that safety. IE, a parent in a poorer and somewhat more dangerous neighborhood seems to be more willing to allow their children the run of the neighborhood than a parent in a highly secure upscale suburb.
I know. It is so vital that our children learn to keep every single argument they ever get into going until it ends in fisticuffs or mutual resentment. Especially the case for the most meaningful arguments of all - those on internet message boards.
No, you're correct. I was talking about ADD/ADHD. Woman at work today told me she was ADHD and that's why she couldn't pay attention to her work, almost had to choke a bitch.[/QUOTE]
You are 100% right about this. Recently I had a student with honest-to-god ADHD. Now that I know what it looks like when you have the real thing, all these others kids who claim to have it because they don't want to pay attention or do homework can fuck off. I'm not putting up with that shit in my class anymore.
Dave
Staff member
To Gas and Chaz, not all people are secure enough to take a poke at a bully. Specifically, they are the individuals which are targeted the most frequently by the bullies. And if they attempted to take a stand and they were not successful, it would only make things worse. As someone who was picked on at a very early age I can tell you that taking a stand is not always necessarily the answer. Sometimes it causes things to be worse and worse until finally one day you do something radical which shall be unmentioned at this time. Suffice it to say that it shaped who I am and it's one of the least nice things I've ever done. Standing up to the bully made it so much worse it was not to be believed. I'm a former Marine who is not afraid of anyone yet my time being bullied shaped who I am today and not necessarily in a good way.
The problem is the blaming of the victim and the societal system is not a healthy answer and is, in fact, the absolute worse thing you could say. Telling a kid that he's weak and needs to stand up for himself reinforces the weakness and fear - this time by an adult and authority figure. Like my dad and his friends.
Again, each person's experiences are different and I'm glad yours was positive. But in most cases that's not the case.
The problem is the blaming of the victim and the societal system is not a healthy answer and is, in fact, the absolute worse thing you could say. Telling a kid that he's weak and needs to stand up for himself reinforces the weakness and fear - this time by an adult and authority figure. Like my dad and his friends.
Again, each person's experiences are different and I'm glad yours was positive. But in most cases that's not the case.
No, you're correct. I was talking about ADD/ADHD. Woman at work today told me she was ADHD and that's why she couldn't pay attention to her work, almost had to choke a bitch.[/QUOTE]
You are 100% right about this. Recently I had a student with honest-to-god ADHD. Now that I know what it looks like when you have the real thing, all these others kids who claim to have it because they don't want to pay attention or do homework can fuck off. I'm not putting up with that shit in my class anymore.[/QUOTE]
What if they can bring in proof from a doctor in the proper field? Just because their symptoms do not fit your definition of "the real thing" doesn't mean they aren't afflicted.
EDIT: Dave speaks truth. Also - every bully I ever encountered (admittedly, none in high school) had friends. Lots of friends. Friends who either didn't see their antics as bullying or just didn't care. The one time I tried to stand up to a bully (I knocked his hat off of his head at recess when he was up in my face - this dude never hit me, but damn did his teasing make me hate school for a while). Cue me being mobbed by a dozen of his friends (mixed gender, it wasn't a posse of ass kicking) demanding to know what my problem was and why don't I take him to "Peer Mediation"? This is the same damn kid whose behavior was so bad towards me that the teacher, upon hearing me tell him off once, told my mom she was proud of me. So yeah. Standing up for yourself only goes so damn far.
No, if they aren't showing real symptoms and hiding behind a doctor's note, then that does mean they aren't afflicted. That's my whole point, actually. So when they talk to their friends during class and play around on their cell phones, or don't do homework and just shrug their shoulders when I ask about it, I don't want to hear "you can't do or say anything because he/she has ADHD." Having actually seen what it's like for some kids I'm not going to accept that excuse from students who are obviously hiding behind a label to get out of doing work.
But all this is off topic. If someone else wants to make an ADHD thread we could take it over there.
But all this is off topic. If someone else wants to make an ADHD thread we could take it over there.
C
Chazwozel
You have two left eyes?!?
You have two left eyes?!?[/QUOTE]
Something about that forces me to victimize him.
C
Chazwozel
You stood your ground. You sir are A-Ok in my book.
North_Ranger
Staff member
...
No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.
*walks outside and facepalms*
No, not gonna climb back into the tub-o'-shit.
*walks outside and facepalms*
C
Chazwozel
Then you shouldn't have even posted. I know you're a coward. Don't worry.
When I was in the 6 grade I was regularly bullied by this sadistic fuck. he would put thumbtacks into my shoes during PE or empty his juicebox into my backpack and made my schoollife a living hell..
One day after I overtook him on the stairs,which he took as an affront,pulled me around and punched me in the eye.I proceded to tumble down the stairs. After picking myself up I entered the classroom picked up a chair and went apeshit on him. Broke his arms and jaw and gave him a concussion.
I visited him in the hospital to tell him what I did was wrong,but if he ever was gonna bother me again,I would kill him.A couple of months later he came to talk to me and to apologize.Told me his parents got divorced and he needed to vent his anger and i seemed like a viable target. We became good friends soon after. ( and no,we didnt become a bullying team.We started playing soccer.)
One day after I overtook him on the stairs,which he took as an affront,pulled me around and punched me in the eye.I proceded to tumble down the stairs. After picking myself up I entered the classroom picked up a chair and went apeshit on him. Broke his arms and jaw and gave him a concussion.
I visited him in the hospital to tell him what I did was wrong,but if he ever was gonna bother me again,I would kill him.A couple of months later he came to talk to me and to apologize.Told me his parents got divorced and he needed to vent his anger and i seemed like a viable target. We became good friends soon after. ( and no,we didnt become a bullying team.We started playing soccer.)
Dave
Staff member
Then you shouldn't have even posted. I know you're a coward. Don't worry.[/QUOTE]
So was Ghandi then. Quit being a prick.
Then you shouldn't have even posted. I know you're a coward. Don't worry.[/QUOTE]
So was Ghandi then. Quit being a prick.[/QUOTE]
I dunno, while I'd not call NR a coward, I must note that he basically walked up to his bully, tapped him on the shoulder to get his attention, and then told him that he's ignoring the bully. The 'Wozel is right, NR did nothing but poke the badger with that post.
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Chazwozel
Then you shouldn't have even posted. I know you're a coward. Don't worry.[/QUOTE]
So was Ghandi then. Quit being a prick.[/QUOTE]
I dunno, while I'd not call NR a coward, I must note that he basically walked up to his bully, tapped him on the shoulder to get his attention, and then told him that he's ignoring the bully. The 'Wozel is right, NR did nothing but poke the badger with that post.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a bully, so fuck off with that nonsense. I'll tell someone how full of shit they are, and if they throw garbage at me, I'll throw it right back. That's not being a bully, that's called holding your own.
I wouldn't even mind NR at all if he wasn't a big defensive whino half the time. Guess that's what happens when you've never stood up for yourself.
Chaz, you're being a bit of an ass, don't you think?
Obviously, a substantial percentage of those of us in this thread have had bullying experiences ranging from bad to really bad that have "helped" define us over the years.
Kicking people in the ass to "wake them up" over something very intensely personal like this subject doesn't seem particularly productive, and might actually be emotional distressful to the point of being harmful. You really should lay off.
Obviously, a substantial percentage of those of us in this thread have had bullying experiences ranging from bad to really bad that have "helped" define us over the years.
Kicking people in the ass to "wake them up" over something very intensely personal like this subject doesn't seem particularly productive, and might actually be emotional distressful to the point of being harmful. You really should lay off.
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Chazwozel
1. NR is not smaller than me.
2. What way am I exactly forcing here? I called out NR on his crap and he got all hissy. Am I threatening to come over to his house and beat him up? The only person I'll admit to "bullying" on this forum was Mav. And I wasn't the only one. But alas, please let's turn this into yet another douchebag's vs. Chaz thread. I love those, especially when it makes you feel like you're getting back at all those folks who done you wrong in the past.
---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------
I'm not the one who brought it up, and if you look back, I'm really not the one who started it. NR got overly defensive, as usual.
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