[News] The USA Police State will never satisfy its lust for beating, gassing, and imprisoning minorities

Dave

Dave

Staff member
I would hate to have my every word and action recorded and scrutinized. You will eventually say or do something that pisses someone off, especially if you act in any way that is not robotic. I think the guy should be reprimanded, maybe demoted. But it was not egregious enough to be fired.

I read this as one of two ways:
  • He was making a joke and articulated it badly. (Plus it wasn't funny.)
  • He was frustrated that the woman just assumed that he was going to shoot her because he was a cop so he sarcastically responded...but articulated it badly.
After watching the video I'm inclined toward the second option. He just sounds frustrated at her for assuming that he's a murderous thug because he's wearing the uniform. He's completely being sarcastic.

So no, I'm not calling for the head of this guy. Let's save our ire for actual bad cops doing actual bad things, not some guy who momentarily let his emotions get away from him.

(And before you give me the bullshit "cops should not let their emotions..." get real. They are humans, not robots.)
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
blotsfan said:
I'm sure it was, but I don't want someone with judgement that bad to think that's ok to be patrolling the streets.
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I got news for you, bud, about how much of the general population has good judgement.

But yeah, not the best idea to make jokes about bombs in line at the airport, and such.
 
Eriol

Eriol

Terrik said:
Nurse gets arrested for doing her job
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From the article:
Salt Lake police spokesman Sgt. Brandon Shearer told local media that Payne had been suspended from the department’s blood draw unit but remained on active duty.
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Why the fuck do they even HAVE such a unit? For chain-of-custody purposes probably, but even then it should be "we serve a warrant to the hospital's staff, who then draws the blood in the presence of the officer, who then takes custody of it." Boom, done. They have OFFICERS draw blood routinely? Fuck that! Even WITH a warrant, I'd submit to it, but then file an official complaint that it's complete bullshit. If there was no such unit then things like this CAN'T happen, as they can't draw blood without a warrant PERIOD if they don't have such a unit!

I think the nurse (and hospital) is showing incredible restraint in not ALREADY filing a lawsuit.
 
Eriol

Eriol

blotsfan said:
I'd like to think that in order to be in that unit, you'd have to be trained on how to draw blood.

Can't say I'm that confident though.
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It's in the article that they are trained to do so, and that's good, but still... this should be a "division of amount you can fuck up" so that they aren't the ones doing such.

This gets worse in many ways if you start thinking about the other things officers may need to collect from suspects... which btw in this case is even worse, as the guy they wanted to collect from wasn't a suspect, he was the victim!
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

Eriol said:
It's in the article that they are trained to do so, and that's good, but still... this should be a "division of amount you can fuck up" so that they aren't the ones doing such.
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One of the few times I read the whole article and I miss that...

Yeah, this is a clear case of the cop being in the wrong. It's absurd that he hasn't been completely suspended yet, if not fired.
 
Eriol

Eriol

blotsfan said:
One of the few times I read the whole article and I miss that...

Yeah, this is a clear case of the cop being in the wrong. It's absurd that he hasn't been completely suspended yet, if not fired.
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Given they fired the "we only shoot black people" guy (whom I think was kidding in bad taste) for something he SAID (didn't haul anybody off in cuffs, assault, or anything, but SAID), this guy should CERTAINLY be fired at the least.
 
Denbrought

Denbrought

Eriol said:
Given they fired the "we only shoot black people" guy (whom I think was kidding in bad taste) for something he SAID (didn't haul anybody off in cuffs, assault, or anything, but SAID), this guy should CERTAINLY be fired at the least.
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I wouldn't expect it. This cop's actions seem reminiscent to other cases where poor training/knowledge of the law was ultimately to blame (that's a valid defense in the U.S. when trying to pierce the police's professional immunity, simple negligence is not enough). Unless it balloons up (say, nurse associations and hospitals in the area pull a lot of weight), I'd expect some sort of reprimand and re-training at most, with the government eating any civil liability. And/or he'll be forced to resign and move to a different police force.

I can dig up sources and examples for all of the above if needed, as this is an area of law/news I've been idly following, but not before Sunday.
 
Eriol

Eriol

Gruebeard said:
It probably exists so they can get blood from people in jail and various other places that aren't hospitals.
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Jails often have infirmaries or other places for sick people with actual nurses, so not a big deal there.

As for anybody else, they can serve a warrant to them to have it done at a hospital, and an officer can be present there. My point is that having the "Collection agent" also be an officer isn't enough separation of powers (apparently) from unlawful collection.
 
Gruebeard

Gruebeard

Eriol said:
Jails often have infirmaries or other places for sick people with actual nurses, so not a big deal there.
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Do they? I've never been.

But for a more serious response, I want to point out that I said jail, not prison. I was thinking of the cells in police stations. I figure it would make sense to have a dozen officers or so trained to take blood and give them the equipment to do so, and let them travel to whatever small town police station in their county needs them.
 
Eriol

Eriol

Gruebeard said:
But for a more serious response, I want to point out that I said jail, not prison. I was thinking of the cells in police stations. I figure it would make sense to have a dozen officers or so trained to take blood and give them the equipment to do so, and let them travel to whatever small town police station in their county needs them.
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I'd rather have nurses that were legally OK to have in chain-of-custody (or just a police escort to them), than police trained the other way. Too much other baggage with police, whereas you NEED documentation to even get the nurse there in the first place, and thus less likelihood of this type of shit happening.
 
Tress

Tress

An interesting twist: the unconscious man whose blood the police wanted to draw was a reserve policy officer in another state. And of course he was the victim in a car crash, not the culprit.
 
jwhouk

jwhouk

No, you get letters of reprimand for trying to help someone by doing something compassionate. They call it "fraternization" or "dereliction of duty."
 
Frank

Frank

I don't normally like posting in this thread, but this makes me so fucking mad I can barely think straight.

http://nypost.com/2017/09/28/woman-claims-nypd-detectives-forced-her-to-perform-sex-acts/

An 18-year-old woman claims two Brooklyn detectives forced her to perform sex acts in an unmarked police van in exchange for letting her walk free, according to police sources and the alleged victim’s lawyer.
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The detectives from the NYPD’s Brooklyn South narcotics squad claim the acts were consensual, police sources said.
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PatrThom

PatrThom

Gruebeard said:
At least they've corroborated her story except for the bit about consent.

Police officers on duty, a detained suspect, that's got to be at least statutory rape, right?

So they'll face some justice. Right?
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Their leave will be so intensely administrative, you have no idea.

--Patrick
 
Tress

Tress

Gruebeard said:
At least they've corroborated her story except for the bit about consent.

Police officers on duty, a detained suspect, that's got to be at least statutory rape, right?

So they'll face some justice. Right?
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Sex between two parties where one has authority over another cannot be consensual. These two are assholes and they should be brought up on rape charges. But, of course, the DA will refuse to bring charges or a jury will nullify.
 
Null

Null

Gruebeard said:
At least they've corroborated her story except for the bit about consent.

Police officers on duty, a detained suspect, that's got to be at least statutory rape, right?

So they'll face some justice. Right?
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No, this is America. Police aren't punished for their abuses in any meaningful way.
 
Eriol

Eriol

Tress said:
Sex between two parties where one has authority over another cannot be consensual. These two are assholes and they should be brought up on rape charges. But, of course, the DA will refuse to bring charges or a jury will nullify.
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Null said:
No, this is America. Police aren't punished for their abuses in any meaningful way.
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Or Governors, or Presidents (same guy both times), as the case may be.
 
Null

Null

Officer_Charon said:
A former chief of my department currently serving time would beg to differ.
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Tell that to Eric Garner. Sandra Bland. Freddie Grey. Philando Castle. Tamir Rice. Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams.

In fact, since June 2007, out of approximately 10,000 police shootings, only 5 white officers have done time for killing a black person.

Since 2005, despite the fact that over 1,000 people are killed by police in the USA every year, only 29 officers have been convicted for killing on duty, usually a lesser charge. In fact, in the last 13 years, only 1 police officer has been convicted of 1st degree murder for a duty-involved shooting. In 2015, 1,146 people were killed by the police, but no police officers were convicted for any of them. Between 2005 and 2017, 33 of the 49 people killed by cops who were indicted for the killings were black, but only 5 officers were convicted, meaning that in the rare event that charges are brought, the conviction rate for a white cop killing a black person is 12%. The normal conviction rate for homicide is 70%.

In 2015, of the 235 unarmed people killed by law-enforcement officers, only 18 deaths resulted in officers being charged. Another 169 unarmed civilians were killed in 2016, according to The Guardian, but only 16 officers even faced charges. In the last 10 years, only 82 cops have ever faced charges for killing anyone, meaning that more than 99 percent of cops who have caused the death of a civilian were never charged with a crime.

So I'm glad the former chief is in jail for his crimes, but institutionally and statistically, police literally do get away with murder.
 
Officer_Charon

Officer_Charon

So much is made of the term "unarmed," so permit a small amount of perspective. I know your mind's already made up, and I already know that there is little that I'm going to be able to say that will sway you, yet here I come again and again.

When dealing with a resisting suspect, we have no idea what the status of any possible weapons is. If we cannot retain control of the hands, the potential element of deadly force remains in effect. During any struggle, there is the possibility of any "unarmed" suspect gaining the upper hand, and rendering an officer unconscious, with all the tools on our belts at their mercy.

I had this situation last night - an irate, intoxicated suspect fought two officers, almost gained the upper hand due to having no pain threshold, and headlocked me. I was able to tuck my chin, keeping the airway open, and he was never quite able to blood choke me, but I was VERY cognizant of the fact that I was in a bad situation. And I thought to myself "I can shoot, I can stand and throw him over a balcony, I can't reach my knife, I can't get control of his head or hands, what are my options?" If I hadn't had a partner there for him to focus on as well (partner managed to get the suspect to attack him, ended up on his back, which allowed me the chance to pin the suspect against a guard rail until my partner could get to his feet.

Just because a suspect ain't armed, doesn't mean they ain't deadly. In any police encounter, there's always at least one deadly weapon in the mix - the officer's.

So yes, sometimes an encounter with an unarmed suspect turns deadly, because the suspect continues to resist past the officer's ability to maintain control. There are no rules on their end of things, while there are plenty on ours.

Yes, there are officers that should be punished, and aren't. Murder implied pre-meditation - I have never started a shift by saying "I'm going to kill someone today." But it sounds suspiciously like you feel this is a mindset of my brothers and sisters.
 
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