[News] The USA Police State will never satisfy its lust for beating, gassing, and imprisoning minorities

It sounds like a horrible accident, but I think it's just that, and the headline is overblown. Cops were asked to check up on family member, get no response and fear the worst and force entry in order to do what they were asked. They then found the man pointing a gun at them and refusing to lower it when the police identified themselves. None of this is being disputed by the family.

Just a bad situation all around, but not really what this thread is about.
 
It sounds like a horrible accident, but I think it's just that, and the headline is overblown. Cops were asked to check up on family member, get no response and fear the worst and force entry in order to do what they were asked. They then found the man pointing a gun at them and refusing to lower it when the police identified themselves. None of this is being disputed by the family.

Just a bad situation all around, but not really what this thread is about.
I'm pretty sure that when police are asked to check up on someone, and they wind up shooting the person to death, that's a fairly excessive use of force, and that is what the thread is about. It's another example of "Comply or Die".
 
Once again want to point out that he was pointing a gun at them. If he had shot and killed one of the officers should he not have been held at fault?

Sorry I'm not buying protecting ones life as excessive force.
 
We're talking about a situation where both sides were doing pretty much what I would expect them to do, but whose only outcome was going to be unhappy either way. Best thing to do would be to avoid similar situations in the future, and change the initial conditions to get a different outcome. Now that something like this has happened, perhaps some effort will be expended in coming up with ways to change those initial conditions.
I'm pretty sure that when police are asked to check up on someone, and they wind up shooting the person to death, that's a fairly excessive use of force, and that is what the thread is about. It's another example of "Comply or Die".
There's a semi-relevant Far Side cartoon about bombardier beetles, but I couldn't find it online.

--Patrick
 
Once again want to point out that he was pointing a gun at them. If he had shot and killed one of the officers should he not have been held at fault?

Sorry I'm not buying protecting ones life as excessive force.
He wasn't engaged in criminal activity, and he wasn't a danger to himself or others. He found himself surrounded by armed intruders in his own home. The police pushed it to a situation where he was "a threat" and then they killed him.
 
It's going to be a question of finding evidence/proof, and will depend on how they acted. If I fund myself alone in the house surrounded by armed intruders, I might point a gun at them too. If the police was sent there explicitly to check up on him they should've done more to identify themselves, lower their weapons, etc. They weren't invading a house to arrest someone, they were entering to check if he was alive or needed medical aid. Why were their guns out in the first place? They come in, the inhabitant points a gun at them, as is his right, the police should identify themselves and try to disarm the situation, talk the guy down - not draw weapons and shoot.
 

Dave

Staff member
Why did the firefighters not go in first? If they thought the guy was sick or down for the count, it should have been rescue people, not police. And just because he had his gun pointed at them, does not mean they have to return fire. Why not duck back out of sight and talk to him? I know I wasn't there and these things go pretty fast, but I just don't see why anyone had to get shot.

Look at it this way, the cops break in and the guy has them in his sights. Yet the cops had time to draw their weapon and fire. This means that the guy didn't WANT to fire. It's much easier to simply pull a trigger than to reach down, unsnap the holster, draw the weapon, and fire. No, I'm not saying the cops are murderers, I'm just saying that's a lot of actions to take when someone has you in their sites.
 
Also, just a minor point but...they checked up on him at 10:20pm? For a 74yo recovering from surgery it never occured to them that he might be having an early night? Why didn't they check up on him during the day when he'd be more likely to be awake and willing to answer the door? Could easily have avoided the whole thing.
 
From the article at http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2014/08/things-stop-distracted-black-person-gets-murdered-police/

''....Because after 400 years of never needing a reason, they suddenly need a reason? No. No. They have never needed a reason.''

Now, the article is about minorities and only minorities, which I take issue with, but the message is still accurate; They don't need a reason to kill you. Yes, I generally give the police the benefit of the doubt, and I'm sure they have to shoot people to defend themselves, I'm not disputing that. But they killed over 1100 people last year alone. There is no excuse for that. Absolutely no excuse.

I'm not even counting all the people they have beaten to a pulp for no reason (happened to me, I have a spotless criminal record, I wasn't charged with any crime, they did not suspect me of a crime, they just beat the dogshit out of me because they could and they knew that they could). How many people have been literally terrorized and tortured by the police for no reason at all?

We claim to be the land of the free, but that is a huge lie. We are not free, this is the very definition of a police state run amok and we need to start fighting back. Yep, I said it. When people shoot at you, you need to shoot back, no matter who it is and no matter what the circumstances are, THAT is the principle that this country was founded upon, the individual right to freedom, liberty and self determination.

So, arm yourselves. Heavily.
 
Given the opportunity, I'd rather strip them of the powers being abused rather than start an armed escalation. Otherwise it will literally become an arms race, and then a war.

--Patrick
 
Given the opportunity, I'd rather strip them of the powers being abused rather than start an armed escalation. Otherwise it will literally become an arms race, and then a war.

--Patrick
I've already posted multiple times that this is my prediction for the future.
 
Given the opportunity, I'd rather strip them of the powers being abused rather than start an armed escalation. Otherwise it will literally become an arms race, and then a war.

--Patrick
Given the opportunity. I won't be holding my breath, since history has proven again and again that those in power will do anything to stay in power. I certainly would if I were in power.
 
Why did the firefighters not go in first? If they thought the guy was sick or down for the count, it should have been rescue people, not police. And just because he had his gun pointed at them, does not mean they have to return fire. Why not duck back out of sight and talk to him? I know I wasn't there and these things go pretty fast, but I just don't see why anyone had to get shot.

Look at it this way, the cops break in and the guy has them in his sights. Yet the cops had time to draw their weapon and fire. This means that the guy didn't WANT to fire. It's much easier to simply pull a trigger than to reach down, unsnap the holster, draw the weapon, and fire. No, I'm not saying the cops are murderers, I'm just saying that's a lot of actions to take when someone has you in their sites.

They shot him because they wanted to. Anyone who doubts the sadistic police mentality of the modern American law enforcement officer should google the Stanford Prison Experiment and observe the way the guards become more and more sadistic while the prisoners become more and more dehumanized. This is exactly how the whole ''Us vs Them'' thing works when one side has absolute power and the other side can do literally nothing about it, aside from posting on the interweb about how they wouldnta dun that ta me, this is 'merica.

I recently read an article about how people who had no contact with the police had a higher opinion of them than people who have. The more numerous the individual incidents of contact with police, the lower their opinion of LEO became, which mirrors my own experience perfectly. Again, despite having a spotless criminal record, spotless MVR and never, ever having committed any crime in my adult life other than smoking copious amounts of weed, I have come into conflict with police repeatedly (mostly because I spent a lot of time behind the wheel for many years, traffic stops are where the majority of the police funds are extorted from the citizens).

Every incident played out the same way: You swerved, it looked like you had a brake light out but didn't and my personal favorite, your fuel door was open (the little door on the gas tank where you fill it up, they seriously pulled me over for that and then tried to act like it was illegal - I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP). After running all your information, hoping to get you on something (I love the look of disappointment they get when they see SAFE DRIVER real big on my license) they start accusing you of whatever crime comes to mind (this is an actual LEO tactic taught in the academy called the Reid Technique) then, they want to search your vehicle, which they actually have no right to do, but usually manage to intimidate people into letting them anyway. Then they put you in cuffs, ''for their safety,'' while they fuck around and try to find something to charge you with, when they find nothing, they make something up and think you are dumb enough to just take it in the ass. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't, but that SAFE DRIVER on my license didn't get there by accident; I fought every ticket I ever got in court and I won every single time because it was obviously total bullshit and everybody knew it.

You might think that this is some kind of ''I won'' victory speech, but it's not, because I lost. I lost my time, the most valuable and irreplaceable commodity that exists and I lost it because some piece of fucking shit had nothing better to do than run around harassing citizens in an attempt to generate revenue for the police state. With all that going on, it's easy to see why so many people are just flat terrified of the police, like I am. Because even if you win, you lose.


Here is some copy pasta for ya:
The Reid Technique

When police officers suspect a person of a crime, they often use the Reid interrogation technique, first developed in the 1940s. This is the sort of questioning you see in the movies and on television. Suspects are questioned at the police station, in a dingy room, with one officer playing “good cop” and another playing “bad cop.” In police procedurals, there are cigarettes and coffee, and the questioning invariably ends with a tearful confession or a slick defense attorney coming in and shutting down the interview. In real life, the Reid technique is very effective at producing confessions. This is why it has been used for over half a century.
Under this technique, police rely on three concepts that are intended to lead the suspect to believe that confessing to the crime (whether guilty or not) is in the suspect’sbest interests:
  • Isolation. Officers isolate the suspect from family and friends, in the hopes that it will make the person feel alone. The reliance on isolation led to the development of the modern, windowless interrogation room.
  • Maximization. The officer starts out by stating that the suspect is guilty. The officer knows it and the defendant knows it. The officer will then present a theory of the crime (sometimes supported by other evidence, sometimes completely fabricated) that offers details that the suspect can later parrot back to the officer. The officer ignores or refutes any claims of innocence by the defendant. This is the “bad cop” portion of the interview. The cop knows that suspect is lying, knows that the suspect did it, and the suspect is wasting everyone’s time with protests of innocence.
  • Minimization. Finally, after the officer had made it clear to the suspect that no claims of innocence will be entertained, the officer moves on to the “good cop” portion of the interview. Now, the police officer tells the suspect that the officer understands why the suspect did it and everyone else will understand too. Won’t the suspect feel better after confessing? If the suspect confesses, good things will happen – a lesser charge, a chance to go home. If not, the suspect will remain in custody forever.
If you are questioned at a police station, there is a good chance you will be subjected to the Reid technique. Avoid saying anything incriminating by keeping your mouth shut and asking for a lawyer.

And here is the link to the Stanford Prison Experiment
http://www.prisonexp.org/
 
They shot him because they wanted to. Anyone who doubts the sadistic police mentality of the modern American law enforcement officer should google the Stanford Prison Experiment and observe the way the guards become more and more sadistic while the prisoners become more and more dehumanized. This is exactly how the whole ''Us vs Them'' thing works when one side has absolute power and the other side can do literally nothing about it, aside from posting on the interweb about how they wouldnta dun that ta me, this is 'merica.
This is a gross oversimplification of the SPE.
 
Why did the firefighters not go in first?
This could just be a local thing, but police officers are almost always the first responders, they're already out and about and have the mobility to get places quicker, their first aid training can help people live long enough for paramedics, and they assess and manage the environment, letting dispatchers know what to send.

They're like Thunderbird 1.
 

Dave

Staff member
Yeah, and the way some cops act makes them look like murderers, so...
How many cops in America? How many cops in America suck? These generalizations AGAINST the police are just as detrimental as the generalizations FROM some police about the citizenry. Neither one is helpful.
 
Neither is it helpful for any criticism of specific police forces and officers who have done wrong, blatantly and criminally wrong, to be categorically shut down because "not all cops". The lack of consequences for police misdeeds, lack of civilian oversight of police forces, and lack of recourse for citizens wronged by the police are serious problems.

Yes, 99% of police are great. But that doesn't excuse the hideous acts that bastards with badges commit.
 
C'mon, @Dave ! Are you some kinda blueblood cop-sympathizer? Who's* side are you on, anyway? RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

--Patrick
*This is deliberate, to simulate the sort of poor grammar you would expect from a froth-mouthed Internet conspiracy type.
 
C'mon, @Dave ! Are you some kinda blueblood cop-sympathizer? Who's* side are you on, anyway? RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

--Patrick
*This is deliberate, to simulate the sort of poor grammar you would expect from a froth-mouthed Internet conspiracy type.

I'm amused that in this sentence, it's the grammar you're most concerned will be taken as sincere.
 
It's not about the cops, it's about the machine. The machine is completely built and designed around poor peoples' lives not mattering, that's the only way capitalism works and white male supremacy is upheld.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Neither is it helpful for any criticism of specific police forces and officers who have done wrong, blatantly and criminally wrong, to be categorically shut down because "not all cops". The lack of consequences for police misdeeds, lack of civilian oversight of police forces, and lack of recourse for citizens wronged by the police are serious problems.

Yes, 99% of police are great. But that doesn't excuse the hideous acts that bastards with badges commit.

I'm not saying that we should shut down the conversation because #notallcops, the conversation absolutely needs to happen. What I'm saying is that comments that paint police with a broad brush, describing them as a group of sociopaths, are pretty dumb, and in no way contribute to the conversation. If anything they take away from it because they make people think that the side calling for increased scrutiny and accountability is filled with a bunch of wingnuts.

This is, and has always been my problem with people like Charlie. They hurt their side far more than they ever help it. They are, in fact, the enemy of progress.
 

Necronic

Staff member
martin luther king disagrees with you
MLK would agree with me. Malcolm X wouldn't. Sad that you can't even understand this.

You are the historical version of Malcolm X telling the white girl that there's nothing she can do to help. Which, in his later years, even Malcolm X regretted.

Ed: Actually, you are not one of the oppressed, you stand for them, so its worse that that. You are the White Girl pretending to be Malcolm X talking down to the white girl.
 
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