figmentPez
Staff member
Also, give me Doctor Harley Quinn, please.
This is an alternate world story where, as far as I can tell, none of the characters are even the same people as the mainstream universe. That's not Bruce Wayne fighting her, so I'm going to assume it's probably not Harleen Quinzel he's fighting.
figmentPez
Staff member
Let me expound on this. Harley Quinn's defining trait could be, and sometimes is, that she's a Doctor, a psychiatrist. She could be an epic struggle between the madness and the treatment. A character study to rival Two Face in showing the duality found in human nature, the struggle between different impulses. Harley can be a complex character who explores what it means to be human, and what makes people do bad things.
Instead, she's tossed in ever skimpier outfits and turned into a straight up psychopath with no sympathy for her victims, and no understanding of the harms she's doing.
I think I read somewhere that Superman is the son of Zod, Batman is actually Kirk "Manbat" Langstrom, and Wonder Woman is from New Genesis or Apokalips.
Might be just speculation, though, so don't quote me on that, either.
figmentPez
Staff member
See my earlier post. Bruce Timm said that she's (to him) not that much different than existing versions of Harley, she's just been made "extreme".[DOUBLEPOST=1433873962,1433873583][/DOUBLEPOST]
Yes, those are correct. See the article I linked to earlier.
fade
Staff member
I'll be honest: I never much cared for Good Guy Harley. I like her as a villain who Joker "set free" instead of his biggest victim. Don't get me wrong--I love characters who blur good and evil. But making Harley one always felt a little forced. There's a fair amount of sexism here, too. The villains who show softness and who help out the hero are more often than not women.
Also, it seems like they're pushing her degree a lot lately. Originally, wasn't she a fairly bad student who partially charmed her way through her degree? Now she seems to be superdoctor.
Also, it seems like they're pushing her degree a lot lately. Originally, wasn't she a fairly bad student who partially charmed her way through her degree? Now she seems to be superdoctor.
I don't mind keeping Harley in the "villain" category, but this seems out of place for her character. There's different degrees of villainy, and not everyone needs to be so "over the top" in order to be a threat. ("But it's EXTREME!!!1" ...Stuff a sock in it, Poochie.) Besides the unnecessary outfit, this seems like a waste of Harley. There are a number of villains who are at this level of villainy. If you write for Harley and can't remember this isn't her schtick, then use one of them.
In "Mad Love", this was the case. She got her degree through charm rather than work and wanted to be assigned to the Joker for the fame.
fade
Staff member
I'm genuinely curious what would show her evil without being considered extreme, though. She's the jokers top henchman. He's undeniably a deranged killer, with lots of (often implied for taste) horrible deaths under his belt. I mean this didn't feel even close to a modern slasher, and joker is supposed to be the kind of guy who would make Jason Vorhees wet his hockey pants.
But isn't that the point of alternate universes? Not to show a character we know and love but a twisted unfamiliar version? You are right, it isn't fitting her character we know from the the DCAU but that isn't her like the Superman who killed President Luther in one Justice League episode isn't the Superman we are familiar with.
By the way here is the second of the mini episodes to promote the movie:
figmentPez
Staff member
First, Bruce Timm threw out "twisted and unfamiliar version" when he said that she's just an "extreme" version of this Harley. Second, if they're going to be a different character, there needs to be a reason why. This Superman isn't our Superman because he's the son of Zod. The Superman in "The Dark Side" is different because he was raised by Darkseid on Apokolips. The Superman in "Justice League: The Nail" is different because he was raised by <spoilers>.
What made this Harley different from the mainline continuity Harley? Why does the original Harley have moments where she tries to go straight, while this one is so much darker? Why does the main comic universe Harley have a soft spot for children, animals, and abused women, when this one is killing children to put in her diorama? While I'd admit that it's hard to show something like that in a short, it could have been something that was at least hinted at, or maybe discussed in the behind-the-scenes interviews. Hell, maybe it could have been reflected in her damn costume! Nope, none of that. This Harley is just "extreme", that's why she's so sick, "extreme"!
Is "extreme" just comics-speak for "lazy character design"?
GasBandit
Staff member
I'm sure that one will cheese off some people too, but much like the one before, it gets me interested to see this movie.
figmentPez
Staff member
I liked this, too. Thoughtful character design, well thought-out backstory that was conveyed during the short (well, the villain's was). Good emotion. This short made me wonder why there was apparently so little thought that went into the other one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_League:_Gods_and_Monsters_Chronicles
Same writer: Alan Burnett.
And yeah, I didn't hate this one. He tried to reason with the child and when he said he knew a solution, the child gave him permission to end it. It's heartbreaking and you can tell he's filled with regret for his actions before, during, and after the deed.
Basically, it's everything that Man of Steel wasn't in this case.
If I had one criticism, it's a shame that they couldn't get CC Pounder for Amanda Waller. She was the PERFECT voice actress for the character.
GasBandit
Staff member
It reminds me of that wolverine comic that gets posted on imgur all the time where a teenager wakes up one morning to find that his mutant power has manifested overnight, and that power is deadly uncontrollable "poison radiation" that burns away all organic tissue within a certain radius. Wolverine is sent because his healing power counteracts it (naturally), gives the kid his first beer, fills him in on the situation... and it ends the same way.
fade
Staff member
Huh. I had the exact opposite reaction. I felt that one was hokey and tried way too hard to tug heartstrings. I meant come on. The silly puppy dog eyes?
On the other hand, I can accept that this isn't main universe Harley. "A more extreme version" could mean anything. You could interpret all those kid-friendly feelings as taken to the extreme when Psycho-Harley tries to "help" people by making them permanently happy. Maybe Joker was a foil in the main universe, and it was the realization that he's too much that keeps main Harley in check. I can accept those.
On the other hand, I can accept that this isn't main universe Harley. "A more extreme version" could mean anything. You could interpret all those kid-friendly feelings as taken to the extreme when Psycho-Harley tries to "help" people by making them permanently happy. Maybe Joker was a foil in the main universe, and it was the realization that he's too much that keeps main Harley in check. I can accept those.
Since we're talking about the short, let's keep it to the short, not what was tweeted by someone.
Not all characters need to have their entire story told. The reason for Batman bring a vampire isn't told in that short either. A characters history can be inferred or even left mysterious. What is this universes Harley's story? Who knows. You can infer some things, like the stitching on her neck, but ultimately it isn't needed for what is intended to be a teaser into this new world.
I'm pretty certain I've shared this before. But I found it again, was disturbed by again, and thus must share its horror again.
GasBandit
Staff member
Just remember to breathe, Mon.
Yet another reason to get rid of the monarchy.
figmentPez
Staff member
Since this forum likes cute nerd girls playing the ukelele, here's a friend of mine covering Uptown Funk:
figmentPez
Staff member
Timelapse of the disassembly, and restoration of an internal combustion engine:
