Prop 8 overturned

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Element 117

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/us/05prop.html

.S. Court Overturns Calif. Same-Sex Marriage Ban
By JESSE McKINLEY and JOHN SCHWARTZ
Published: August 4, 2010
FACEBOOK
COMMENTS
E-MAIL
PRINT
REPRINTS
SHARE

SAN FRANCISCO — Saying that it unfairly targets gay men and women, a federal judge in San Francisco struck down California’s voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage on Wednesday, handing supporters of such unions a temporary victory in a legal battle that seems all but certain to be settled by the Supreme Court.
Enlarge This Image

Jeff Chiu/Associated Press
Opponents of Proposition 8 celebrated the ruling outside the Phillip Burton Federal Building in San Francisco.
Related

Read the Decision (pdf)
Enlarge This Image

Jeff Chiu/Associated Press
Opponents of Proposition 8 stood alongside proponents outside the Phillip Burton Federal Building in San Francisco.
Wednesday’s decision is just the latest chapter of what is expected to be a long legal battle over the ban – Proposition 8, which was passed in 2008 with 52 percent of the vote.

Vaughn R. Walker, the chief judge of the Federal District Court in San Francisco, who heard the case without a jury, immediately stayed his decision as pending appeals by proponents of Proposition 8, who confidently predicted that higher courts would be less accommodating than Judge Walker. But on Wednesday, at least, the winds seemed to be at the back of those who feel that marriage is not, as the voters of California and many other states feel, solely the province of a man and a woman.

"Proposition 8 cannot survive any level of scrutiny under the Equal Protection Clause," wrote Mr. Walker. "Excluding same-sex couples from marriage is simply not rationally related to a legitimate state interest."

Supporters of Proposition 8 said that the decision flew in the face of the people of California.

“In America, we should respect and uphold the right of a free people to make policy choices through the democratic process--especially ones that do nothing more than uphold the definition of marriage that has existed since the foundation of the country and beyond,” said Brian Raum, a senior consel for the Alliance Defense Fund, which argued for the defense.

On its face, Wednesday’s decision seemed to apply only to California and not to the dozens of other states that have either constitutional bans or other prohibitions against same-sex marriage. Nor does it impact federal law, which does not recognize such unions.

Still, the very existence of federal court ruling recognizing same-sex marriage in California, the nation’s most populous state, set off cheers of "We Won!" from crowds assembled in front of the courthouse in San Francisco. Evening rallies and celebrations were planned dozens of cities across the state and several across the nation.

The plaintiffs’ case was argued by David Boies and Theodore Olson, ideological opposites who once famously sparred in the 2000 Supreme Court battle beween George W. Bush and Al Gore over the Florida recount and the presidency. The lawyers brought the case -- Perry v. Schwarzenegger – in May 2009 on behalf of two gay couples who said that Proposition 8 impinged on their Constitutional rights to equal protection and due process.

For gay rights advocates, same-sex marriage has increasingly become a central issue in their battle for equality, seen as both an emotional indicator of legitimacy and as a practical way to lessen discrimination.

“Being gay is about forming an adult family relationship with a person of a same sex, so denying us equality within the family system is to deny respect for the essence of who we are as gay people,” said Jennifer Pizer, the marriage project director for Lambda Legal in Los Angeles, who filed two briefs in favor of the plaintiffs. “And we believe that equality in marriage would help reduce discrimination in other settings because the government invites disrespect of us when it denies us equality.”

The trial, which began in January, was closely watched in the gay community, drawing large crowds to courtrooms, and inspiring re-creations by actors which were posted online. The plaintiffs offered two weeks of evidence from experts on marriage, sociology and political science, and emotional testimony from the two couples who had brought the case.

Proponents for Proposition 8, which was heavily backed by the Mormon church and other religious and conservative groups, had offered a much more straightforward defense of the measure, saying that same-sex marriage damages traditional marriage as an institution. They also argued that marriage was essentially created to foster procreation, which same-sex unions could not, and was thus fundamental to the existence and survival of the human race.

On Tuesday, those supporting Proposition 8 telegraphed their view that they had likely lost this round as the defense’s leading lawyer, Charles J. Cooper, filed a notice with the court requesting that Judge Walker keep the ban on same-sex marriage in place while they appealed his decision.

The defendants requested a ruling at the same time as Judge Walker issues the opinion, setting the stage for a quick appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals "and, if necessary, the Supreme Court."

On Wednesday, lawyers for Ms. Perry responded with a letter of their own, requesting that Judge Walker not automatically rule on such questions without a hearing, asking that they be allowed to respond to the "obviously premature" motion before any action is taken.

The decision could also play into the state’s gubernatorial race in California though the race has been centered largely on economic issues thus far, with unemployment running more than 12 percent and a $19 billion budget gap.

Democrat Jerry Brown has been vocal in his support of gay marriage in his current role as California attorney general. Republican Meg Whitman has taken the position that marriage should be between a man and a woman – in line with the language of Proposition 8 – though she says that she strongly supports the state’s civil union laws, which afford many of the same rights as marriage.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in a statment said that he supported the ruling, saying it "affirms the full legal protections" for thousands of gay Californians.

There were also signs that Judge Walker’s personal life – several published reports have said he is gay -- might become an issue for those opposed to his ruling. Hours before the decision was announced, a commentator on Fox News.com – Gerard Bradley, a professor of law at University of Notre Dame – posted an editorial questioning the judge’s impartiality.

“I do not doubt that Judge Walker made up his mind about Prop 8 before the trail began,” Mr. Bradley wrote.

Some in the gay rights community were initially upset by the case fearing that a loss at a federal level could set back their more measured efforts to gain wider recognition for same-sex marriage, which is legal in five states and the District of Columbia.

But those concerns seemed to fade as the trial began, and on Wednesday, the mood was of elation and cautious optimism that Mr. Boies and Mr. Olson’s initial victory might change the debate.

Kate Kendell, executive director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said that she believed that there were members of Supreme Court who “have a very deep seated bias against LGBT people,” meaning lesbian, gay, bi-sexual and transgender. But, she called Wednesday’s ruling “potentially game changing.”

“This legal victory profoundly changes the conversation,” she said, “for folks in the legal world and the policy world who were previously unmoved by this struggle.”

Jesse McKinley reported in San Francisco and John Schwartz in New York. Malia Wollan contributed reported from San Francisco.
 
C

Chibibar

Yay!! I hope this law will stay overturn. I know the "conservatives" will continue to fight it (I put it in quotes cause not all conservative think the same way)
 
People are going apeshit over this around here. Prop 8 has a strong polarizing effect in California, as you can imagine.
 
E

Element 117

The evidence does not support a finding that California has an interest in preferring opposite-sex parents over same-sex parents. Indeed, the evidence shows beyond any doubt that parents’ genders are irrelevant to children’s developmental outcomes. Moreover, Proposition 8 has nothing to do with children, as Proposition 8 simply prevents same-sex couples from marrying. Same-sex couples can have (or adopt) and raise children. When they do, they are treated identically to opposite-sex parents under California law. Even if California had an interest in preferring opposite-sex parents to same-sex parents—and the evidence plainly shows that California does not—Proposition 8 is not rationally related to that interest, because Proposition 8 does not affect who can or should become a parent under California law. . . .

Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional.

Plaintiffs have demonstrated by overwhelming evidence that Proposition 8 violates their due process and equal protection rights and that they will continue to suffer these constitutional violations until state officials cease enforcement of Proposition 8. California is able to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, as it has already issued 18,000 marriage licenses to same-sex couples and has not suffered any demonstrated harm as a result,see FF 64-66; moreover, California officials have chosen not to defend Proposition 8 in these proceedings.

Because Proposition 8 is unconstitutional under both the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses, the court orders entry of judgment permanently enjoining its enforcement; prohibiting the official defendants from applying or enforcing Proposition 8 and directing the official defendants that all persons under their control or supervision shall not apply or enforce Proposition 8. The clerk is DIRECTED to enter judgment without bond in favor of plaintiffs and plaintiff-intervenors and against defendants and defendant-intervenors pursuant to FRCP 58.

IT IS SO ORDERED.
emphasis added
 
“In America, we should respect and uphold the right of a free people to make policy choices through the democratic process--especially ones that do nothing more than uphold the definition of marriage that has existed since the foundation of the country and beyond,” said Brian Raum, a senior consel for the Alliance Defense Fund, which argued for the defense.

LAWMAKING DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!
 
Yeah, gotta love the "The majority has spoken, so it must be right" argument. You know, at one point in America the majority thought that owning a black person like property was okay. Doesn't mean it was right.
 
Yeah, gotta love the "The majority has spoken, so it must be right" argument. You know, at one point in America the majority thought that owning a black person like property was okay. Doesn't mean it was right.
Not to mention that if it was the other way around conservatives would talk about how gay marriage is wrong, no matter what the majority says.
 
Woohoo now I can finally leave my wife for a man in California... if I wanted to.
You could always leave her for a man, now you can marry him now too.

I hope this ruling stands through the courts.[/QUOTE]

There really isn't much you can do to overturn this decision except go to the SCOTUS at this point. It's not like they can boot it back to federal court ether, so if it DOES go that far, they'll be forced to make a decision. So it's likely that the next decision is going to be the one that is going to stick, at least for awhile anyway.
 
Woohoo now I can finally leave my wife for a man in California... if I wanted to.
You could always leave her for a man, now you can marry him now too.

I hope this ruling stands through the courts.[/QUOTE]

There really isn't much you can do to overturn this decision except go to the SCOTUS at this point. It's not like they can boot it back to federal court ether, so if it DOES go that far, they'll be forced to make a decision. So it's likely that the next decision is going to be the one that is going to stick, at least for awhile anyway.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I had heard, that the Supreme Court was the next stop. Hopefully it will stick there too and move us closer to truer freedom for all.
 
C

Chibibar

Woohoo now I can finally leave my wife for a man in California... if I wanted to.
You could always leave her for a man, now you can marry him now too.

I hope this ruling stands through the courts.[/QUOTE]

There really isn't much you can do to overturn this decision except go to the SCOTUS at this point. It's not like they can boot it back to federal court ether, so if it DOES go that far, they'll be forced to make a decision. So it's likely that the next decision is going to be the one that is going to stick, at least for awhile anyway.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I had heard, that the Supreme Court was the next stop. Hopefully it will stick there too and move us closer to truer freedom for all.[/QUOTE]

It will be abortion case where Supreme Court made it stick.

I think the conservatives may not fight it to the Supreme Court, but they might, if the U.S. Supreme Court rule against Prop 8, does that make it legal in all states?

that is a risky battle for the conservatives.
 
Woohoo now I can finally leave my wife for a man in California... if I wanted to.
You could always leave her for a man, now you can marry him now too.

I hope this ruling stands through the courts.[/QUOTE]

There really isn't much you can do to overturn this decision except go to the SCOTUS at this point. It's not like they can boot it back to federal court ether, so if it DOES go that far, they'll be forced to make a decision. So it's likely that the next decision is going to be the one that is going to stick, at least for awhile anyway.[/QUOTE]

Not going there quite yet.
The defendants requested a ruling at the same time as Judge Walker issues the opinion, setting the stage for a quick appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals "and, if necessary, the Supreme Court."
 
J

JONJONAUG

The craziest things happen when I go on vacation.

Prop 8 gets overturned, the oil spill got stopped for real.

Did I walk into a bizarro reality where good things happen?
 
J

Joe Johnson

Last I checked, the supreme court was swinging conservative. I don't think there'd be a better time (for people against gay marriage) to send it their way.
 
Last I checked, the supreme court was swinging conservative. I don't think there'd be a better time (for people against gay marriage) to send it their way.
I honestly suspect they will refuse to make a ruling and let the current ruling (that it's unconstitutional) stand. They may be conservative, but I think they'd be loathed to condemn huge communities to second class standing, if only because they don't want to be the ones remembered for doing it.
 
On social issues, the High Court is more liberal. 4 to 4 with a swing vote that is a social liberal, conservative on government powers.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Yeah, gotta love the "The majority has spoken, so it must be right" argument. You know, at one point in America the majority thought that owning a black person like property was okay. Doesn't mean it was right.
I think the phrase is, "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner."
 

North_Ranger

Staff member
Wonderful. Also, gotta love some of the proponent arguments: "marriage is for procreation" - okay, what about childless couples?
 
Wonderful. Also, gotta love some of the proponent arguments: "marriage is for procreation" - okay, what about childless couples?
This reminds me of the conversation I had with my dad on the issue. It ended with him admitting he had no good reason for being against gay marriage.
 
Wonderful. Also, gotta love some of the proponent arguments: "marriage is for procreation" - okay, what about childless couples?
This reminds me of the conversation I had with my dad on the issue. It ended with him admitting he had no good reason for being against gay marriage.[/QUOTE]

+1 Internet[/QUOTE]
Well, I didn't say he was suddenly for it! When I finally said "So... why are you against it then?" and he responded "I just do!" We had a laugh at that and then talked about other stuff. Sometimes all you can do is talk about it and hope it sinks in over time.
 

North_Ranger

Staff member
Well, I didn't say he was suddenly for it! When I finally said "So... why are you against it then?" and he responded "I just do!" We had a laugh at that and then talked about other stuff. Sometimes all you can do is talk about it and hope it sinks in over time.
I did the same with my Mom and her dislike of the Roma. In Finland, they have something of a reputation as scoundrels, conmen and thieves.
 
Well, I didn't say he was suddenly for it! When I finally said "So... why are you against it then?" and he responded "I just do!" We had a laugh at that and then talked about other stuff. Sometimes all you can do is talk about it and hope it sinks in over time.
I did the same with my Mom and her dislike of the Roma. In Finland, they have something of a reputation as scoundrels, conmen and thieves.[/QUOTE]

You mean gypsies aren't thieving conmen? What a gyp.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top