Obamacare

GasBandit

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It all comes down to "who's paying for it?" I'm not OK with subsidizing someone who isn't doing all they can.
 

Necronic

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It all comes down to "who's paying for it?" I'm not OK with subsidizing someone who isn't doing all they can.
That's basically how all insurance everywhere works though, nothing unique to ACA. Sometimes you are subsidizing true acts of god/random occurances. Usually you are subsidizing bad drivers or lazy fat-asses.
 

GasBandit

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That's basically how all insurance everywhere works though, nothing unique to ACA. Sometimes you are subsidizing true acts of god/random occurances. Usually you are subsidizing bad drivers or lazy fat-asses.
There is subsidizing and then there is subsidies on being subsidized.
 
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Remember when the ACA came out, and we discovered (because it was all done behind closed doors, so we couldn't see what it was until it was passed) that many aspects of the implementation were relegated to the department of health and human services?

Well it looks like giving that power to the executive branch may not be in everyone's best interests.

Donald Trump's government has issued a ruling that allows employers to opt out of providing free birth control to millions of Americans.
The rule allows employers and insurers to decline to provide birth control if doing so violates their "religious beliefs" or "moral convictions".
Fifty-five million women benefited from the Obama-era rule, which made companies provide free birth control.
So rather than opting for the "compromise" that allowed workers to get birth control without the employers "paying" for it (a shell game, but I guess it was sufficient for some), the department of health and human services issued a ruling that immediately takes effect which allows employers and insurance companies to opt out for religious reasons. No birth control at all, not even through the previous shell game compromise.

Yet another thing that will change every time we change the presidency.
 
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Remember when the ACA came out, and we discovered (because it was all done behind closed doors, so we couldn't see what it was until it was passed) that many aspects of the implementation were relegated to the department of health and human services?

Well it looks like giving that power to the executive branch may not be in everyone's best interests.



So rather than opting for the "compromise" that allowed workers to get birth control without the employers "paying" for it (a shell game, but I guess it was sufficient for some), the department of health and human services issued a ruling that immediately takes effect which allows employers and insurance companies to opt out for religious reasons. No birth control at all, not even through the previous shell game compromise.

Yet another thing that will change every time we change the presidency.
Every time I see stuff like this I want to burn down the nearest Hobby Lobby. (Which, obviously, is hyperbole, because the people working inside are not at fault, but I digress.)

Two things gall me every time I see this argument. (This isn't aimed at you, @stienman, just the article): 1) Not everyone who takes birth control doesn't it to prevent conception. I cannot tell you how many women I know who weren't sexually active and still on the pill because it is still one of the only things that helps regulate erratic periods, which come with a host of health problem from polycistic ovarian syndrome, ease endometriosis, and a host of other health issues. You're denying basic healthcare to a good chunk of the population. And 2)because businesses are about the bottom line, why wouldn't you support birth control, which is cheaper in the long run than health care for a child? Not just the healthcare, but maternity pay, time off for taking care of said child, etc. This seems like Gileadean logic just for the sake of being hurtful, not because it has benefits.
 

Dave

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But GEEZUS! And really, FAKE GEEZUS to appease a base that is insane while not adhering to the ideology themselves.
 
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My wife takes birth control for 2 reasons. 1. we don't want kids. 2. Giving birth could kill her due to her hyper-mobility. So, fuck you religious organizations for forcing your bullshit onto us. Seriously, eat a bag of dicks.
 
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Tell congress, and have them make sure the president can't screw around with birth control.

Honestly, this is the same thing as DACA - the power over these things should never have been placed in the executive branch, and having a president come along and rip things out so congress has to fix them is painful, but probably better for everyone in the long run.
 

GasBandit

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Lol congress won't fix this
You know, if you obscured the actual poster from the quote, my first guess would have been this was Charlie.

That goes for a lot of your posts lately, come to think of it.
 
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You know, if you obscured the actual poster from the quote, my first guess would have been this was Charlie.

That goes for a lot of your posts lately, come to think of it.
Do you think I'm wrong? Do you think a republican house and a republican senate will do anything to oppose this?

And ok I'm Charlie now I guess. I don't really care. What's the point of sugarcoating anything when it's all going to shit anyways and nothing will be done?
 

GasBandit

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Do you think I'm wrong? Do you think a republican house and a republican senate will do anything to oppose this?

And ok I'm Charlie now I guess. I don't really care. What's the point of sugarcoating anything when it's all going to shit anyways and nothing will be done?
That's a much less Charlie reply, right there.

It was less a commentary on your sentiment and more on how you've been presenting your arguments, lately. Punctuationless one-sentence eyeroll remarks that start with "Lol" for example. The sort of thing one might more expect to find in an instant message than on a discussion forum.

As for your actual point, you might be correct in the short term, but the only way it's going to change (without upheaval) is for constituent-based pressure to come to bear and to not let up. Granted, it's the long game, but myopically playing the short game is what's gotten us to where we are - with Trump in charge of health care.

With so much power now resting with the executive branch, the next President might give it back... and then the one after that might take it away again. This is the danger of empowering the presidency to circumvent the legislature.
 
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There is no long game. The system is getting more and more rigged for the republicans. It doesn't matter what quasai-fascist bullshit they do, they will always have support of the trash America has to offer, and anyone who doesn't support them will keep getting more and more disenfranchised. America is a shithole of a country and that's not going to change ever.
 

GasBandit

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There is no long game. The system is getting more and more rigged for the republicans. It doesn't matter what quasai-fascist bullshit they do, they will always have support of the trash America has to offer, and anyone who doesn't support them will keep getting more and more disenfranchised. America is a shithole of a country and that's not going to change ever.
I can't decide whether to address this unironically, make a snide, cutting remark, dehumanize you, or just post a meme.
But that's some redonkulous shiznit right there.
 
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I can't decide whether to address this unironically, make a snide, cutting remark, dehumanize you, or just post a meme.
But that's some redonkulous shiznit right there.
Our state is currently the poster child for gerrymandering, so maybe cut him a little slack. for a little perspective, 39% of people voted for Republicans but they won over 60% of the seats. It's easy to see why we would feel it's essentially a load of bullshit.
 

GasBandit

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Our state is currently the poster child for gerrymandering, so maybe cut him a little slack. for a little perspective, 39% of people voted for Republicans but they won over 60% of the seats. It's easy to see why we would feel it's essentially a load of bullshit.
I kinda think there's still a few steps between "our state is badly gerrymandered" and "America is a shithole of a country and that's not going to change ever."
 
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I kinda think there's still a few steps between "our state is badly gerrymandered" and "America is a shithole of a country and that's not going to change ever."
All about perspective. In my state and in this country the winners didn't win and it isn't looking to get better.
 

GasBandit

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All about perspective. In my state and in this country the winners didn't win and it isn't looking to get better.
And the answer is to go full cartoon and become a walking "Liberals hate America" cliche?

And this is only year one.
 

GasBandit

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Year one for you. And you're the last person to start pointing out someone else is being a cliche.
Hey, at least I've never hidden who I was or what I believed, or acted insulted when called on it. But I guess now I won't be surprised when a whole lot of liberals start coming out of the "I hate America" closet. Bully on being able to be yourself out loud, I guess, Blots.
 
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That's a much less Charlie reply, right there.

It was less a commentary on your sentiment and more on how you've been presenting your arguments, lately. Punctuationless one-sentence eyeroll remarks that start with "Lol" for example. The sort of thing one might more expect to find in an instant message than on a discussion forum.

As for your actual point, you might be correct in the short term, but the only way it's going to change (without upheaval) is for constituent-based pressure to come to bear and to not let up. Granted, it's the long game, but myopically playing the short game is what's gotten us to where we are - with Trump in charge of health care.

With so much power now resting with the executive branch, the next President might give it back... and then the one after that might take it away again. This is the danger of empowering the presidency to circumvent the legislature.
Lot in this comment. I do agree that during Obama's presidency too much power was invested in the executive. Congress won't move on allowing military power in Syria? Keep on bombing. No movement on illegal immigration? Well we'll set up DACA. I agree with some of his actions (DACA not Syria) but he did overplay his powers very often when he needed to kick it to congress and let them get yelled at .

But I think right now there is too much inertia and rot too really have much hope for even the long game.

Problem 1 is gerrymandering Republicans have so many "safe" seats where the only challenge is the primary that even actions that will help the country can't be allowed because a harder right candidate will then take their seat during a primary. So voting to enshrine birth control as a right isn't going to happen until we do the census and redraw the voting maps. Which might happen after the 2020 census or the gerrymandering might keep on paying off getting the people who drew the maps reelected to draw the maps again at which point 2030 is the next best bet for breaking out of that shitty feedback loop.

Then of course we have the problem that our institutions are not actually all that great as it turns out. The State department is a skeleton crew right now ICE has started becoming the fucking jackbooted thugs we were always warned about and the education department is going to be paying huge chunks of money for Betsy's security detail. I for one thought that the Trump people would be forced to fit into the system but so far it seems like our institutions can be controlled by people who actively despise them and that the career civil servants aren't able to defend them nor do we know what kind of shape they will be in after this.

And then we have fucking Russia. This one is by far the most shocking to me cause I'm an 80's kid so growing up there was one thing I knew deep in my DNA and that was not one single American would ever side with Russia over even their most hated America enemy. But at this point we have an attorney general who committed perjury in order to cover up his Russian contacts and a president who gave out classified information to the Russians in the god damned Oval Office. And this is a problem that I have no idea how you even get started on fixing. The official report might come out detailing the Russia influence but in this age where our president claims every article he doesn't like even the ones that just quote him as "fake news" I have no idea how the voting public will break.

I have felt unmoored ever since Trump was elected. I see the way back but I don't know if America will go that way.
 
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