Full hard brexit. But at least its red white and blue.

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Even if Pelosi does allow the "fantastic trade deal" to pass the House, the Trump administration is planning on doing the trade deal on a sector by sector basis. Which is illegal under WTO rules.
And who's going to stop them? WTO? Don't make me laugh.
 
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And who's going to stop them? WTO? Don't make me laugh.
Sadly you're right. And call me crazy but I'd prefer if my country doesn't start negotiating its own trade deals again by breaking the accepted rules everyone's supposed to abide by.

And that's not even getting into that the US has made it clear one of the first sectors they'll insist on is allowing US farmers to flood the British market with cheap produce that doesn't meet the current minimum standards in food hygiene.
 
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And that's not even getting into that the US has made it clear one of the first sectors they'll insist on is allowing US farmers to flood the British market with cheap produce that doesn't meet the current minimum standards in food hygiene.
 
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Parliament opens again on 2nd Sept. Boris is planning on proroging Parliament effectively shutting it down again from 11th Sept till 14th Oct. Brexit is currently due to happen on 31st Oct.

Officially this is just a bog standard new Prime Minister wanting to get a Queens Speech to lay out what his Governments plans are going forward. Unofficially this is a blatant attempt to cut Parliament out of Brexit negotiations to allow him to force a No Deal Brexit.

 
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So what would happen if instead of granting the request as things usually go, she were to instead say, "just what do you idiots think you're doing?"
 
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So what would happen if instead of granting the request as things usually go, she were to instead say, "just what do you idiots think you're doing?"
In theory? Parliament just stays open. In practice? Constitutional crisis with calls to abolish the monarchy. They wouldn't come to anything but it would be the most serious threat to the monarchy in decades. Not that it matters anyway - the Queen NEVER plays politics so she won't refuse the PM's request.

Although if we're talking about theoretical situations - well technically the armed forces pledge allegiance to the monarch rather than parliament or the office of PM. Nothing stopping her from ordering them to instituting a military coup to restore Britain to an absolute monarchy so that she can take over negotiations with the EU.
 
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Although if we're talking about theoretical situations - well technically the armed forces pledge allegiance to the monarch rather than parliament or the office of PM. Nothing stopping her from ordering them to instituting a military coup to restore Britain to an absolute monarchy so that she can take over negotiations with the EU.
There's bound to be an AU where this just happened. Wonder what the BBC broadcasts from there look like right about now.
 
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In theory? Parliament just stays open. In practice? Constitutional crisis with calls to abolish the monarchy. They wouldn't come to anything but it would be the most serious threat to the monarchy in decades. Not that it matters anyway - the Queen NEVER plays politics so she won't refuse the PM's request.

Although if we're talking about theoretical situations - well technically the armed forces pledge allegiance to the monarch rather than parliament or the office of PM. Nothing stopping her from ordering them to instituting a military coup to restore Britain to an absolute monarchy so that she can take over negotiations with the EU.
Nope, the Magna Carta explicitly forbids the monarch from trying that in the UK - the military is allowed to disregard orders that threaten the constitutionally made order.

Having said that, the Queen's in a tough spot: "not playing politics" is not the same as "accepting his request" - it's inherently political. This is a straight-out attack on parliamentary democracy. If Erdogan or Putin said "ehh, close parliament down for a month so I can force my own view on this issue through", we'd be calling them authoritarian un-Western dictators.
My guess is a motion of no confidence and early elections beginnning of October, followed by a request for extension...which the EU might refuse, but will most probably accept, yet again.
 
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Nope, the Magna Carta explicitly forbids the monarch from trying that in the UK - the military is allowed to disregard orders that threaten the constitutionally made order.
Look, I just want the Queen to stage a military coup. Is that so wrong?

Having said that, the Queen's in a tough spot: "not playing politics" is not the same as "accepting his request" - it's inherently political. This is a straight-out attack on parliamentary democracy. If Erdogan or Putin said "ehh, close parliament down for a month so I can force my own view on this issue through", we'd be calling them authoritarian un-Western dictators.
Except in this instance the least political option she has is to go with existing convention. Which is to take the advice of her PM and close Parliament.

My guess is a motion of no confidence and early elections beginnning of October, followed by a request for extension...which the EU might refuse, but will most probably accept, yet again.
Yeah, that's what I'm expecting too. Well, maybe not quite early October. Expectation is it will take at least 7 weeks after a vote of no confidence to arrange an election, so 21st Oct at the earliest.
 
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Nope, the Magna Carta explicitly forbids the monarch from trying that in the UK - the military is allowed to disregard orders that threaten the constitutionally made order.
Britain has had absolute monarchies AFTER the Magna Carta was signed (1215). Remember, once you say "the military will X" the only "force" that matters is force of arms. Force of Law means jack shit at that point. The next most formidable thing at that point tends to be the force of the personalities involved.

If everything goes horrible, and the Queen says "military, for the good of the country, do X" and they actually follow her, then that's what happens, because they're the ones with the guns. Let's just all hope such an action would actually be transitional. If they don't follow her, or it's not merely transitional, then that's something else again.
 
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Honestly it seems like if there was ever a time for Sinn Fein to take there seats, this would be it.

Edit: though now that I think about it, I can think of nothing that would help lead to a United Ireland better than no-deal Brexit.
 

Dave

Staff member
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Honestly it seems like if there was ever a time for Sinn Fein to take there seats, this would be it.

Edit: though now that I think about it, I can think of nothing that would help lead to a United Ireland better than no-deal Brexit.
I've spoken with a few Irish national friends and they think the opposite. They think a no-deal Brexit could very much lead to a resurgence of the Troubles.
 
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It's a nice change of pace from the lightspeed continuous crash happening in our own country.
Hey now, it's just Boris trying to show off to his master. Look how fast I can dismantle parliamentary democracy from within daddy! I can do it too daddy! Lookitmeeeee!
 
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I've spoken with a few Irish national friends and they think the opposite. They think a no-deal Brexit could very much lead to a resurgence of the Troubles.
But since NI voted Remain, they might have the numbers, and be pissed off enough at Westminster for fucking the backstop, to vote to unite with Ireland (which i think was part of the deal back in the day when Ireland got independence), to avoid going back to the Troubles.
 
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A) NI is in a bit of a pickle - if and when Brexit eventually happens, they've either got a visible border, or they're out of the UK, or the Backstop's been implemented. Options 1 and 2 would both more than likely lead to a resurgence of the Troubles. There's more animo for nationalism amongst the neutral these days, though, who were strongly in favor of unionism 20-30 years ago. As for numbers, I'd say the 40% is closer than the 90% :p

B) Today was an interesting day. In response to Boris' attempt to completely ignore the public will make democracy more lean and efficient by sending parliament home for 5 weeks, parliament has voted that a no-deal Brexit cannot go through. WWhen Boris next pushed for a general election, Parliament refused him that, too. Good luck, Boris! I honestly don't know why the EU would want to keep the UK in anymore, though. They've cost us enough in economic downturn and slowdown and dragging all other decision making in EUrope to a standstill. God only knows what happens if Europe says "Backstop or no deal", now, though.
 
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If they do hold a VONC I hope all the opposition MP's abstain so that it is just the Conservative MP's voting to bring down their own Government. And of course the danger for Boris in this is that losing a VONC doesn't automatically trigger a GE. Parliament stays open for 14 days & if someone can win a Vote of Confidence - which just requires a simple majority - in that time then no GE & that person becomes the new PM. Granted there's probably no-one in Parliament who could win a VOC (Corbyn is barely trusted more than Boris, no chance in hell they're voting for an SNP PM, and the next largest party - the LIb-Dems - only have 15 MP's) but the possibility is there.
 
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Problem being...Who do you vote for? Most of the Conservatives are pro-Brexit, but not pro-no-deal-Brexit. Labour is even more divided. SNP is pro-Europe - but only in Scotland, and they're nationalists. LibDems are anti-Brexit, but but they're pretty liberal - and a vote for them in most areas is still a lost vote similar to the USA third party problem - FPTP voting is horrible. And there's the Brexit party, which is at least clear on what they want to do with Brexit, but are otherwise "whatever we feel like" on social, environmental, economic and foreign affairs topics.
 
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And Boris suspending Parliament has just been ruled unlawful. So is Parliament open again now? If not what was the point of the case? And if Parliament does reopen & the Government appeals against that & wins what happens to any decisions Parliament makes in the meantime? Do they remain on the statute books or are they wiped?

Edit: Ah, Parliament stays closed until at least Tuesday next week when there's a full hearing at the Supreme Court.
 
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