[TV] Winter HAS COME! - A Game of Thrones

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I am trying to drum up enough caring to watch tonight, but the only reason I want to watch it really is FOMO, not actual desire.
 
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Rhaegal's death proven even more pointless by the way the Scorpions were exactly zero threat during that battle.
 
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Well, the character assassination of Daenarys is complete now.

Literally the stupidest time for Euron and Jamie to be fighting over a woman.

Cersei can cry all the tears she wants, I'm never going to feel sad for her.

The Arya and the Hound thing was sweet.

Cleganebowl is stupid, but fuck you Qyburn.

How many buildings can they drop on Arya in one episode?

I guess Arya may get to kill a queen after all.
 
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Dave

Staff member
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Here's my view:

Dany is going to win. Even one dragon will be enough to destroy that fleet. "Fire > wooden ships" every time. But she's going to do some stuff that makes her a tyrant. and they are going to have to kill her or she's going to die. Arya is going to try and kill the queen and fail. Her purpose is done - she killed the Night King. Now she's playing on house money and will find out that she's still just a young woman who is biting off more than she can chew. Jaime will come south and kill Cercei as predicted. We will get the Clegaine Bowl as fan service, but this isn't a happy ending show. I can see the Hound winning but dying in the process or being killed after by guards. But he's never been allowed to be happy.

So in my view, who gets to sit on the Iron Throne? I'm hoping it ends up being Sansa & Tyrion. I really don't see it being Jon Snow, but I've been wrong before. The only people with claims are: Jon, Tyrion, Gedry, Sansa, Bran, & Arya. Jon doesn't want it, the people would never accept Tyrion, GEDRY makes complete sense, Sansa would be good, Bran would be a foolish choice and I think it would be the "Maggie shot Mr. Burns" ending, Arya would make a terrible ruler.

So I'm hoping either Sansa/Tyrion or Gedry. Now watch it'll end up being Grey Worm or some stupid shit.
  • Dany is going to win and do some fucked up stuff. Correct.
  • Arya is going to try to kill the queen and fail. Incorrect.
  • Jaime will come south & kill Cercei. Incorrect.
  • Clegane Bowl and both will die. Correct.
50%. Not bad. Not exactly a difficult predictive set. I also predicted Varys would die and that Tyrion will as well. Looks like that may come to pass as well. I really thought the Golden Company was going to turn coat, but was wrong about that one. Amazing how many Unsullied and Dothraki are remaining. That makes no sense at all.

Now to the big part. Dany sacking King's Landing. In my estimation it made absolutely zero sense. If she wanted to burn down the Red Keep then so be it. But the razing and burning of the city is just something that is so out of character for Dany that it is literally unbelievable other than a way to make them get her off the throne. Hell, burning down the Red Keep and accidentally killing people would have been enough to justify Tyrion and Jon turning against her, especially after the city had surrendered. But this was just overkill. I think they felt she had to be all evil or all good, with no grey in between as GRRM himself was fond of doing. D&D took a very nuanced and intricate story and just subverted it to the lowest common denominator. Hurr durr Dany suddenly no care about burning innocents! She's not stupid. She knows how the populace is going to treat her and...she's completely fine with this when she never was before? Please.

The episode was beautiful and had great music and cinematography. But plot-wise it made very little sense.
 
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I am honestly flabbergasted guys. The amount of developmental character assassination they have done this season has been ridiculous.

Listen, I get that Game of Thrones was popular by sometimes subverting expectations, but this season feels like it specifically took a bullet list of all the major and minor plots before deciding to close them out as fast as possible in the exact opposite way absolutely anyone dreamed they would end, no matter what past events and development built towards.

Oh except for Clegenbowl, because of course that is the one plot thread that has to happen for the fans.
 
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Honestly at this rate I bet Bronn or Samwell, or maybe fucking Brann, will be on the Throne. I mean at the rate this is going they might as well just go full hog and put one of the most unlikely son of bitches on there.
 
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No, you see that makes too much sense Frank. He actually has a small, if loose, claim on the throne. The showrunners would never go for it.

I got it! The new King of Westeros will be...



Hot Pie

Long may he reign.
 
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I haven't actually seen the episode yet, but the version of events I had predicted in my head was that
after Missandei dies, Dany declares that she's going to honor her final wish, dracarys, and burn down King's Landing. She specifically says she's going to "burn them all". Jaime hears these three words, and is triggered to all hell and back, for obvious reasons. He wants to kill Dany, but he can't, because she's too well protected. Thus, Jaime leaves Dany and Jon and returns to King's Landing, where he decides the only way to stop the massacre will be to kill Cercei and end the war. And so he does.

And it sounds like my version didn't come to pass, did it.
 
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I haven't actually seen the episode yet, but the version of events I had predicted in my head was that
after Missandei dies, Dany declares that she's going to honor her final wish, dracarys, and burn down King's Landing. She specifically says she's going to "burn them all". Jaime hears these three words, and is triggered to all hell and back, for obvious reasons. He wants to kill Dany, but he can't, because she's too well protected. Thus, Jaime leaves Dany and Jon and returns to King's Landing, where he decides the only way to stop the massacre will be to kill Cercei and end the war. And so he does.

And it sounds like my version didn't come to pass, did it.
Nope that would require some kind of character development. Can't have that in game of thrones.
 
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I obviously don't keep up with GoT but knowing what I do about GRRM, I'd have to think that anyone who doesn't see that this will be a "rocks fall, everyone dies" campaign is delusional.
 
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Looking at all the seasons so far, the Starks are awesome!

Dorne; entire royal family dead
Highgarden; entire royal family dead
Stormlands; entire royal family dead
Riverlands; entire royal family dead
Vale; nut job child left
Casterly Rock; couldn't solve a sudoku Tyrion
North; Jon, Arya, Bran and Sansa

I'm hoping the series ends with Sansa saying "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."
 
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Arya was hit on the head more times than Fred Flinstone.
Interesting that Cersei had vats of wildfire positioned all around the city.
Dany had a dragon, she could have landed in Cersei's solar and melted the bunch.
 
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I have never watched game of thrones and never felt the desire to despite it being such a cultural phenomenon. Only now, with one episode left, do I regret that choice, because my god it sounds like it's been a shitshow and I hate that I have no context to understand the fury.
 
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Arya was hit on the head more times than Fred Flinstone.
Interesting that Cersei had vats of wildfire positioned all around the city.
Dany had a dragon, she could have landed in Cersei's solar and melted the bunch.
The Wildfire was placed by the Mad King during Robert's Rebellion and they were never able to find them all.
 
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I have never watched game of thrones and never felt the desire to despite it being such a cultural phenomenon. Only now, with one episode left, do I regret that choice, because my god it sounds like it's been a shitshow and I hate that I have no context to understand the fury.
It's never been a shit show. People just struggle greatly because it does not give them what they want.
 
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You were never going to get reasoned. But the actual construction of the episodes could be better. But if you take away the teleporting, we get 7 more seasons.
 

Dave

Staff member
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GRRM & HBO both wanted more seasons that were longer. D&D apparently said no. The prevailing theory is because they are writing a Star Wars trilogy for Disney and wanted to get started. Watching the last few seasons I think this is a very viable theory.
 
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My issue isn't even really the pacing, it's the character development and the payoffs.

Some examples...

Every season built up the Night King as a terrible, unrelenting force. The whole show started from the very first scene about his looming threat, and he died during his first actual battle south of the wall. He basically become the early season distraction.

Jaime was slowly pushed away from Cersei and her actions, and him walking away from her at the end of last season was him finally doing the right thing, rather then just what he felt was better for Cersei. They even let him show actual romantic love for Brienne, only for his final moments to be running back to Cersei as if we were back in season one.

Dany was always hinted to have some madness inside her, but her entire story was her attempts to subvert that madness, and her entire arc seemed to be that she would "beat the system" and not prove all the terrible things people feel about her (mad child of incest, a woman not fit to rule, etc). This was the woman that freed slaves and did her best for people disenfranchised and vulnerable, yet now even after the town surrenders, decides to burn thousands of innocent people anyways.

Hell, even the small stuff really disservices people. Sansa went through a lot of shit and came out stronger because in the end she was always stronger then she realized, yet when talking with the Hound she basically said she only got stronger because she was raped.

I could go on and on.

Again I understand GoT is about subverting some expectations, but you still need to get a payoff. I don't see that happening here after what happened yesterday, not unless they do some crazy shit next week.
 
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Danny has never been a decent person. Not since Drogo died. She is childish, petty, vindictive and a bully. Her go to response to any crisis is burn it to the ground.
 
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Danny has never been a decent person. Not since Drogo died. She is childish, petty, vindictive and a bully. Her go to response to any crisis is burn it to the ground.
Burning the Red Keep after the bells rang made sense. Burning the entire city makes zero.
 
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My issue isn't even really the pacing, it's the character development and the payoffs.

Some examples...

Every season built up the Night King as a terrible, unrelenting force. The whole show started from the very first scene about his looming threat, and he died during his first actual battle south of the wall. He basically become the early season distraction.

Jaime was slowly pushed away from Cersei and her actions, and him walking away from her at the end of last season was him finally doing the right thing, rather then just what he felt was better for Cersei. They even let him show actual romantic love for Brienne, only for his final moments to be running back to Cersei as if we were back in season one.

Dany was always hinted to have some madness inside her, but her entire story was her attempts to subvert that madness, and her entire arc seemed to be that she would "beat the system" and not prove all the terrible things people feel about her (mad child of incest, a woman not fit to rule, etc). This was the woman that freed slaves and did her best for people disenfranchised and vulnerable, yet now even after the town surrenders, decides to burn thousands of innocent people anyways.

Hell, even the small stuff really disservices people. Sansa went through a lot of shit and came out stronger because in the end she was always stronger then she realized, yet when talking with the Hound she basically said she only got stronger because she was raped.

I could go on and on.

Again I understand GoT is about subverting some expectations, but you still need to get a payoff. I don't see that happening here after what happened yesterday, not unless they do some crazy shit next week.
About subverting expectations:

GoT in it's early life subverted expectations because it was character driven rather than plot driven. Characters acted in their own interests, going against the tropes we would normally associate with a fantasy story, and the fact that this was unexpected was a breath of fresh air.

The problem with purposefully trying to keep subverting expectations is that after 8 seasons we've gotten to know these characters. We expect them to act a certain way, so rather than let them continue to act as they should the writers have them go entirely against character because hey, bet you weren't expecting that.
 

Dave

Staff member
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Every season built up the Night King as a terrible, unrelenting force. The whole show started from the very first scene about his looming threat, and he died during his first actual battle south of the wall. He basically become the early season distraction.

Jaime was slowly pushed away from Cersei and her actions, and him walking away from her at the end of last season was him finally doing the right thing, rather then just what he felt was better for Cersei. They even let him show actual romantic love for Brienne, only for his final moments to be running back to Cersei as if we were back in season one.

Dany was always hinted to have some madness inside her, but her entire story was her attempts to subvert that madness, and her entire arc seemed to be that she would "beat the system" and not prove all the terrible things people feel about her (mad child of incest, a woman not fit to rule, etc). This was the woman that freed slaves and did her best for people disenfranchised and vulnerable, yet now even after the town surrenders, decides to burn thousands of innocent people anyways.

Hell, even the small stuff really disservices people. Sansa went through a lot of shit and came out stronger because in the end she was always stronger then she realized, yet when talking with the Hound she basically said she only got stronger because she was raped.
  • Tyrion - Went from being super smart to just making really stupid decisions. He always HATED Cercei and knew that she was a monster and suddenly he wants to...trust her?
  • Arya - She was actually well done in the last few seasons. Although I expected her to name Dany during Episode 5 as the city burned around her. Should have happened.
  • Varys - For a shadowmaster, he was awfully transparent this season. I mean, his motives have NEVER been known and then suddenly he's talking open treason to anyone who will listen?
  • Euron - His whole fucking CHARACTER made no sense, other than to kill one of the dragons and be everywhere.
  • Speaking of the dragon...I read something online that would have made the burning of King's Landing so much better. Instead of killing the dragon over the sea with impossible shots, King's Landing surrenders. Dany lands to accept the surrender and someone shoots the dragon dead while they are on the ground. Dany get airborne and THEN goes on her murder spree. Her anger would have been justified and immediate (instead of, you know, DAYS later). As it stands, she had absolutely 0 reason to burn KL as opposed to just the Red Keep. None. Zero. Zilch.
Very disappointed with D&D over this last season. Everyone waited for so long to get just this steaming pile of character assassination.
 
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Tyrion has never been clever. He has seemed smart whilst talking to idiots, but he has in fact been more of a moral compass than a strategist.
 
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Varys wasn't even killed for treason, he was killed because he knew who Jon Snow was. His whole treason thing was meaningless.
 
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