Get a tattoo of the outline of a T-shirt, and then use eyebrow pencil to change up what's on it every day, see if anyone notices.
--Patrick
Whine like a baby, now with 500% more drama!
- Thread starter strawman
- Start date
--Patrick
Look, it's your own fault. You know you're fun size, not family jumbo size. Buy accordingly.
My dad is the man!
My sister wants some crafting item that I don’t understand. All good, she doesn’t understand the video game things I like. She and I are super upfront about family gifts. For example she will say: my kids wear size x. I will say: my kids love Steam cards.
My mother has decided that we need to buy it for her for Christmas and starts in on how much I’m to send. I say: I will put cash in a card with a note suggesting using it on that. I will not be roped into spending many times what I would normally. (Nor would my sister ask/expect)
In the background my father: She’s an adult and can buy it herself!
Papa, you’re the man.
My sister wants some crafting item that I don’t understand. All good, she doesn’t understand the video game things I like. She and I are super upfront about family gifts. For example she will say: my kids wear size x. I will say: my kids love Steam cards.
My mother has decided that we need to buy it for her for Christmas and starts in on how much I’m to send. I say: I will put cash in a card with a note suggesting using it on that. I will not be roped into spending many times what I would normally. (Nor would my sister ask/expect)
In the background my father: She’s an adult and can buy it herself!
Papa, you’re the man.
Dave
Staff member
Posted by someone else:
To the moderators, she doesn't visit this forum but please make this an Anonymous post.
The fiancee and I are doing quite well but we recently had an argument. Most of her points boil down to these three examples.
Her: "I want you to WANT to work on cars! My parents will want to see that you can do it!"
Me: "I can change a tire if I need to, but for anything else I'd rather get someone who knows what they're doing."
Her: "My family are all hard workers. That's why we fix our own cars. You should do that too."
Me: "I do work hard at other things. Cars just aren't it." I really wanted to say "What? Like a PEASANT?"
Her: "But guys are SUPPOSED to like working on cars!"
Me: "Maybe in the environment you grew up in, but not mine. I work with my brain, not my hands."
A bit of background first. She comes from a blue-collar family and is the first to earn a college degree. She also grew up in a small town in the Deep South. Her home community doesn't have high educational attainment and most of the people there scratch out a living by working with their hands. It is likely that the guys she grew up with don't feel like real men unless they can fix their cars. The nearest mechanics are a ways off and dealerships are few and far between. They just don't have the population density to maintain proper facilities. One thing I noticed when I visited that town was they fetishize manual labor. They repeat "hard work" like a prayer. "You're getting a contractor for your roof? Whatever happened to HARD WORK? You're paying a mechanic to work on your car? You need to WORK HARD for yourself!" Etc. Hey, I understand that a lot of men gain a sense of fulfillment through tinkering around a car engine. Everyone needs a hobby. But that's not what I do.
It seems like the fiancee wants me to be covered in motor oil and grease like her Dad, dispensing bits of folksy wisdom to our future kids. Thing is, I'm not blue-collar. I have a doctorate and am quite comfortable as an urban professional, thank you very much. I'm the fourth-generation in my family to go to college and the first PhD. I work diligently at tasks I am qualified to do or find interesting. Come to think of it, I'm at the top of my field. She KNOWS I'm a professional and she appreciates (unlike many in her hometown) that my research is real work. Spending an hour, an afternoon, or a weekend sweating and hunched under a car hood or lying underneath a car is something I find exceedingly unpleasant. I'd rather be shot in the face. In my circle of fellow professionals there are only two who spend any amount of time on their cars. One of them is restoring a '69 Mustang and the other works with exotic models. They do it as a hobby, not as a chore. The fact is modern societies are interdependent, people don't need to work on cars if they'd rather not, and our cars will be increasingly electric over the next decade or so that conventional auto mechanics will largely become obsolete.. But when I brought that up she just said "nope, you're just looking for excuses."
I see no problem with bringing my car in to the dealership. Mechanics who are proficient in that occupation fix it up in no time and I get to move on with my life and return to my own work. Or, the repair might take a few hours and I sit in a comfortable waiting area while I research. I'm working on a series of articles and book reviews and need time to read, and the fiancee understands that. I brought my car in for a pricey tune-up the other day and she didn't say anything so I'm thinking the moment has passed.
To the moderators, she doesn't visit this forum but please make this an Anonymous post.
The fiancee and I are doing quite well but we recently had an argument. Most of her points boil down to these three examples.
Her: "I want you to WANT to work on cars! My parents will want to see that you can do it!"
Me: "I can change a tire if I need to, but for anything else I'd rather get someone who knows what they're doing."
Her: "My family are all hard workers. That's why we fix our own cars. You should do that too."
Me: "I do work hard at other things. Cars just aren't it." I really wanted to say "What? Like a PEASANT?"
Her: "But guys are SUPPOSED to like working on cars!"
Me: "Maybe in the environment you grew up in, but not mine. I work with my brain, not my hands."
A bit of background first. She comes from a blue-collar family and is the first to earn a college degree. She also grew up in a small town in the Deep South. Her home community doesn't have high educational attainment and most of the people there scratch out a living by working with their hands. It is likely that the guys she grew up with don't feel like real men unless they can fix their cars. The nearest mechanics are a ways off and dealerships are few and far between. They just don't have the population density to maintain proper facilities. One thing I noticed when I visited that town was they fetishize manual labor. They repeat "hard work" like a prayer. "You're getting a contractor for your roof? Whatever happened to HARD WORK? You're paying a mechanic to work on your car? You need to WORK HARD for yourself!" Etc. Hey, I understand that a lot of men gain a sense of fulfillment through tinkering around a car engine. Everyone needs a hobby. But that's not what I do.
It seems like the fiancee wants me to be covered in motor oil and grease like her Dad, dispensing bits of folksy wisdom to our future kids. Thing is, I'm not blue-collar. I have a doctorate and am quite comfortable as an urban professional, thank you very much. I'm the fourth-generation in my family to go to college and the first PhD. I work diligently at tasks I am qualified to do or find interesting. Come to think of it, I'm at the top of my field. She KNOWS I'm a professional and she appreciates (unlike many in her hometown) that my research is real work. Spending an hour, an afternoon, or a weekend sweating and hunched under a car hood or lying underneath a car is something I find exceedingly unpleasant. I'd rather be shot in the face. In my circle of fellow professionals there are only two who spend any amount of time on their cars. One of them is restoring a '69 Mustang and the other works with exotic models. They do it as a hobby, not as a chore. The fact is modern societies are interdependent, people don't need to work on cars if they'd rather not, and our cars will be increasingly electric over the next decade or so that conventional auto mechanics will largely become obsolete.. But when I brought that up she just said "nope, you're just looking for excuses."
I see no problem with bringing my car in to the dealership. Mechanics who are proficient in that occupation fix it up in no time and I get to move on with my life and return to my own work. Or, the repair might take a few hours and I sit in a comfortable waiting area while I research. I'm working on a series of articles and book reviews and need time to read, and the fiancee understands that. I brought my car in for a pricey tune-up the other day and she didn't say anything so I'm thinking the moment has passed.
Oh, I know that very well. In some areas and some groups "sitting in front of a computer" or "sitting behind a desk" or "reading books" simply isn't considered work.
My in-laws are mostly blue collar as well (brothers-in-law are carpenter-turned-mailman, electrician and painter, and f-i-l is a welder/mechanic), but luckily they have the healthy mindset of "each to their own strengths". I help them set up their wifi and with administration crap, they help me fix lights and with plumbing stuff and all that.
It's a very hard mindset to undo or to get around...If it's just her family, but she knows better, that's not too big of an issue - sometimes you can slowly bring them around to appreciating different types of jobs. If she's still stuck in that mentality, it'll lead to disaster 10 years down the line.
I do get frustrated sometimes; my wife is the only one in her family with a degree too, and while she's aware I'm not the man's man her brothers in law are, she still somehow expects all the "masculine" things in the house to be handled by me - car, electricity, whatever...though she's probably the more mechanically gifted between the two of us.
My in-laws are mostly blue collar as well (brothers-in-law are carpenter-turned-mailman, electrician and painter, and f-i-l is a welder/mechanic), but luckily they have the healthy mindset of "each to their own strengths". I help them set up their wifi and with administration crap, they help me fix lights and with plumbing stuff and all that.
It's a very hard mindset to undo or to get around...If it's just her family, but she knows better, that's not too big of an issue - sometimes you can slowly bring them around to appreciating different types of jobs. If she's still stuck in that mentality, it'll lead to disaster 10 years down the line.
I do get frustrated sometimes; my wife is the only one in her family with a degree too, and while she's aware I'm not the man's man her brothers in law are, she still somehow expects all the "masculine" things in the house to be handled by me - car, electricity, whatever...though she's probably the more mechanically gifted between the two of us.
I guess my family would fall under blue collar? Sort of similar to Bubble181, there was no shaming in playing to your strengths. But in our house, and I should preface that I'm mainly referring to the first 10 years of my life when we shared the house with my dad's parents, there was no "masculine" or "feminine" jobs, there was just work. By the time I was 10, I knew how to cook, bake, sew, clean, but my grandfather would also have me mow the lawn, use tools, paint the house, and further down the road, my dad made sure I knew how to check my oil and change a tire before I got my driver's license. I wasn't expected to be an expert at these things, but they wanted me to know enough that I could take care of myself, and not have to rely on someone else for little daily stuff.
I don't think there's any shame in not being good at "traditionally gendered" tasks, because as long as someone is good at them, including seeking a professional for help, and the job gets done, that's all that matters. I think it's an only an issue when someone isn't pulling their weight. My ex wasn't good at a lot of "traditionally masculine" things, and that never bothered me one bit. What killed our relationship was that he wasn't good at ANY daily tasks, and would refuse to learn to do them. He refused to cook, sweep, clean, could barely do laundry (if I'm being generous), apply for jobs... he claimed he was "the intellectual type" (Narrator:"He was not.") and he would never be good at these things, so I shouldn't expect him to try. So I left. No regrets.
I don't think there's any shame in not being good at "traditionally gendered" tasks, because as long as someone is good at them, including seeking a professional for help, and the job gets done, that's all that matters. I think it's an only an issue when someone isn't pulling their weight. My ex wasn't good at a lot of "traditionally masculine" things, and that never bothered me one bit. What killed our relationship was that he wasn't good at ANY daily tasks, and would refuse to learn to do them. He refused to cook, sweep, clean, could barely do laundry (if I'm being generous), apply for jobs... he claimed he was "the intellectual type" (Narrator:"He was not.") and he would never be good at these things, so I shouldn't expect him to try. So I left. No regrets.
I've never been a 'car guy'. I don't like working on them. I always bang the shit out of my knuckles when I do. I don't like getting dirty and greasy. I don't like laying on the ground and getting up under them. The weather always seems to suck when you have to do it.
But when I was young and poor, I did a lot of repair and maintenance on my cars because my own labor was free and a Chilton auto repair manual was an inexpensive investment. Which means I've done a lot of car repair work, and know how to fix a lot of things. But if I've got the money to pay someone else to do it, I will 100% of the time.
On the other hand, most basic home repair stuff, I prefer to do myself. It's less messy. And I have AC. And most repair projects can be completed using the relatively small set of tools I keep in my tool chest. I generally don't like doing it. But I dislike paying for it even more.
I also do the cooking, laundry, and my share of cleaning.
I learned to do a lot of crafty stuff as a kid: crochet, cross stitch, stained glass, ceramics. My brothers liked to tease me about it, but fuck them. If something interests you, then you should do it. There shouldn't be any job, hobby, or interest that's gender segregated.
But when I was young and poor, I did a lot of repair and maintenance on my cars because my own labor was free and a Chilton auto repair manual was an inexpensive investment. Which means I've done a lot of car repair work, and know how to fix a lot of things. But if I've got the money to pay someone else to do it, I will 100% of the time.
On the other hand, most basic home repair stuff, I prefer to do myself. It's less messy. And I have AC. And most repair projects can be completed using the relatively small set of tools I keep in my tool chest. I generally don't like doing it. But I dislike paying for it even more.
I also do the cooking, laundry, and my share of cleaning.
I learned to do a lot of crafty stuff as a kid: crochet, cross stitch, stained glass, ceramics. My brothers liked to tease me about it, but fuck them. If something interests you, then you should do it. There shouldn't be any job, hobby, or interest that's gender segregated.
That's just him being lazy. I cook because it gives me pleasure and elevates the quality of home life. I will also vacuum, sweep, and clean if the occasion calls for it.
There's the thing with me. I have NO problem figuring out or learning how to do something, but the moment it requires the rental/purchase of $6000 worth of specialized equipment (engine hoist, pizza oven, steam press (clothes), serger, reflow oven, whatever), where it's not worth it to me to learn how because I'd have to do it for a living to make back what I need to spend on the equipment, well that's where I'm out.
--Patrick
To whomever asked you to post that, that's screwed up. I'd want somebody that knows what the hell they're doing to work on my car. And the next time they asked "Hey can you take a look at my PC or electronics rig . . . .?" "Nope, got a flat tire I need to address. Good luck on ya!"
GasBandit
Staff member
My grandfather tried to teach my mother (when she was a a teenager) how to change her own spark plugs.
After he came back and found she had put them in UPSIDE DOWN (which everyone, including me, says is impossible, but he swears to it), he sighed, and told her to study hard so she could make lots of money and afford good mechanics.
After he came back and found she had put them in UPSIDE DOWN (which everyone, including me, says is impossible, but he swears to it), he sighed, and told her to study hard so she could make lots of money and afford good mechanics.
I hope you’re happy in the relationship. For me that argument would have been an ugly, rage-inducing fight. Those are some toxic gender views, and it would piss me off something fierce if my girlfriend tried to shame me into doing work that I am not skilled at just because her family does it. I don’t respond well to those ideas or being pressured like that.
My family is mostly white-collar. My dad has probably never touched a car engine in his life, and I definitely haven't.
My wife's family is more blue-collar. My father-in-law can fix pretty much everything in the house, in fact he loves tinkering with things and engineering new solutions out of wood and scrap metal. He also helped repaint our living room when the paint became cracked from vibrations caused by construction nearby. Accordingly, my wife is also quite good with her hands, especially her artistic ability.
Neither side looks down on the other side. We all recognize our own strengths and weaknesses, and respect each other for being able to do stuff we can't.
Also having a wife who's good with her hands has other perks, ifyaknowwhatImean...
My wife's family is more blue-collar. My father-in-law can fix pretty much everything in the house, in fact he loves tinkering with things and engineering new solutions out of wood and scrap metal. He also helped repaint our living room when the paint became cracked from vibrations caused by construction nearby. Accordingly, my wife is also quite good with her hands, especially her artistic ability.
Neither side looks down on the other side. We all recognize our own strengths and weaknesses, and respect each other for being able to do stuff we can't.
Also having a wife who's good with her hands has other perks, ifyaknowwhatImean...
When I was young and dumb, I acted as the engine hoist for my father-in-law once by putting an axe handle across my shoulders, and some rope down to the engine, and I basically did a power squat and lifted the entire engine and held it for about 10 minutes while he bolted something on. I was soooooo sore the next day. Google tells me that it was probably about 300 lbs.
My family is pretty white-collar, college educated, but I am recently realizing how much I love manual labour. Seeing the fruits of your effort in real-time has something to it for me.
When I was young and dumb (10yrs old? 11?), they demolished a row of houses near where I lived to put in a freeway, and I saw it as an opportunity to acquire a large number of bricks (or "man Legos") at no cost. My mother had a surplus Army backpack which I borrowed and took the half mile to where the houses were being demolished, and I stuffed that thing completely full of bricks. I then discovered that I couldn't actually pick it up. Or rather, I couldn't stand up with it on my back. The thing probably weighed more than I did. I could deadlift it, but carrying it home at arms' length was going to be impossible. I basically rolled it over to where there was a street sign, put myself through the back loops, and then used the pole of the street sign to haul myself up into a standing position. I then walked the half mile home carrying the backpack on my back. My legs were strong enough from all the time I spent riding my bike, but when I got home, the idea of going back to get another load was nowhere near as appealing as it had been originally. Also it is fortunate that I did not fall down on the way home, as I would have been stuck there like a turtle if there was no tree or pole I could've used to stand back up again.
I imagine I also provided someone with some entertainment, though I did not think of it at the time.
--Patrick
I do lots of home repair stuff, but I'm perfectly comfortable paying people to do things I don't feel qualified to do. If I didn't like doing it, I for sure wouldn't and I wouldn't feel even slightly bad about it. I'm a programmer. I like doing it because unlike software it's something tangible that I can look at years later. But if I'm busy or tired or just don't want to, I'm paying someone, and if my wife had a problem with that, it would be just that: her problem. Fortunately, she's the same way.
Funny enough, this is why I like programming.
I usually feel the same way, but after long enough, I realized that nothing I've written is in use anymore but the last couple of things. Feels very temporary compared to building a wall or something.
Those things are pretty temporary whenever I build them
It's been a stressful weekend for me...Lots of things to do, and for some reason my mind was anywhere but in the here and now. Haven't slept properly in a few days (or nights, natch) and it's taking its toll.
On Sunday afternoon we took my niece who was staying with us, back to her grandparents place for her vaulting practice (gymnastics on a horse. She's Belgian champion in her age category!). Out in the sun so I put some suntan on. So I took my wedding band off since if I smear stuff on my face with it on, I end up scratching my face.
Forgot to put my wedding band back on.
Spent 3+ hours out in the sun scouring the field with a metal detector.
In the end my wife actually found it by sight (it's black oxidized titanium so it doesn't shine or glimmer and it was in dark brown top soil, sooo...?!), so a win there, but holy crap I think those few hours knocked 5 years off of my life expectancy.
On Sunday afternoon we took my niece who was staying with us, back to her grandparents place for her vaulting practice (gymnastics on a horse. She's Belgian champion in her age category!). Out in the sun so I put some suntan on. So I took my wedding band off since if I smear stuff on my face with it on, I end up scratching my face.
Forgot to put my wedding band back on.
Spent 3+ hours out in the sun scouring the field with a metal detector.
In the end my wife actually found it by sight (it's black oxidized titanium so it doesn't shine or glimmer and it was in dark brown top soil, sooo...?!), so a win there, but holy crap I think those few hours knocked 5 years off of my life expectancy.
I considered that, but I think she's one of the few actual good ones in that regard
I have a document open on my main computer that lays out the details of how to quit my current job.
I am genuinely unsure if this is what I want to do or not. As it stands, I'm paid (net) <$2000/month to be on-call 24/7, and "in-office" 20 hrs/week. And I'm working closer to 25-30 hrs/week, with no reasonable way of getting that either reimbursed or reduced.
Part of me wants out. Badly.
But the rest of me likes even the barest shred of stability that this offers, and doesn't want to leave without something else firmly lined up (I mean, I have an application in elsewhere already, but no offer or anything).
This bites.
I am genuinely unsure if this is what I want to do or not. As it stands, I'm paid (net) <$2000/month to be on-call 24/7, and "in-office" 20 hrs/week. And I'm working closer to 25-30 hrs/week, with no reasonable way of getting that either reimbursed or reduced.
Part of me wants out. Badly.
But the rest of me likes even the barest shred of stability that this offers, and doesn't want to leave without something else firmly lined up (I mean, I have an application in elsewhere already, but no offer or anything).
This bites.
I am sure that part of you is also hesitant to leave behind some of the people you herd.
—Patrick
Emphasis on the "some"
Not going to work. Too depressed. There's no point to anything.
GasBandit
Staff member
I picked up a bottle of household cleaner that had tumped over in the bathroom cabinet, and apparently the bleach had eaten through the plastic neck seal, because it disintegrated in my hand and doused me with the contents.
I've scrubbed my hand pretty good, but my fingers still stink of bleach >_< it's distracting when I'm trying to work.
I've scrubbed my hand pretty good, but my fingers still stink of bleach >_< it's distracting when I'm trying to work.