[Movies] Star Wars The Force Awakens SPOILER THREAD!
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that is some really weird and gross shit
But it might be a space-time curvature or something, and maybe they just learned how to cause that.
But aren't gravitons also a thing? Which would mean an anti-particle would also be possible.
I think it would be a bit boring if Rey is Luke or Leia's kid. Maybe Anakin had some lovin' during his Darth years? But that would make her Luke's sister. Never mind. I hope it's a better story than a rehashing of Luke's origin.
She's too young to be Vader's kid even if he impregnated someone right before the end of Return of the Jedi.
I'd rather she was Luke's daughter than be another midichlorian virgin birth or whatever, but her being Luke's daughter isn't that interesting. I still think that's where they're going with it since Han seemed to know something about her, or at least Maz Kanada thought he did. But I'm hoping they have something more interesting in mind.
Nope, gravity is an additive force. There is no anti-particle that's known to cancel or reduce gravity.
Not to mention, if they had figured out something like this, what value is there in putting it in every X-wing, every TIE fighter, every dinky Naboo yellow shit plane? For live-in places like Star Destroyers, sure, but it's pointless to put it in everything.
There's just zero point in trying to apply scientific practice and principles to Star Wars. For every thing you try to explain, there's a million other things. Might as well say there are little space elves wired into the engine of every ship.
If you need something to nerd over, there's all the social, cultural, economic, and political stuff. There's tons of things to dissect and pour over in Star Wars. But science just devolves to nitpicking and bitching about how one thing or another doesn't work or make sense, and there's a reason for that--no one making these movies ever cared about that element. It was never important, and Lucas's attempt to make it so is one of the most hated things among Star Wars fans, so I don't see why anyone would want to go back to that.
Fucking midichlorians. My ass.
There's just zero point in trying to apply scientific practice and principles to Star Wars. For every thing you try to explain, there's a million other things. Might as well say there are little space elves wired into the engine of every ship.
If you need something to nerd over, there's all the social, cultural, economic, and political stuff. There's tons of things to dissect and pour over in Star Wars. But science just devolves to nitpicking and bitching about how one thing or another doesn't work or make sense, and there's a reason for that--no one making these movies ever cared about that element. It was never important, and Lucas's attempt to make it so is one of the most hated things among Star Wars fans, so I don't see why anyone would want to go back to that.
Fucking midichlorians. My ass.
For anyone still unsure about whether Rey is Vader's kid--script says she's 19.
Also says Fin is 23, which means the First Order was getting its shit together a while before this movie.
Also says Fin is 23, which means the First Order was getting its shit together a while before this movie.
Kind of undid your whole point at the end there by getting in a twist at the science of midichlorians. Midichlorians don't explain the force at all. They are no more science than lightsabers or hyperdrives. They are nothing more than technobabble (like hyperdrive is). The only purpose they serve in Episode I is as a measure of potential for force-sensitivity so that Anakin could be identified as important, nothing more. The space-magic is still there, even with midichlorians; not to worry!
It seems odd to complain about technology in a science fantasy, where there are space ships and blasters and androids. Of course the Jedi order would develop a test to determine possible candidates!
A handwavey "he's strong in the Force" or "has great potential" is so much easier to deal with and keep exact measurements out of than an actual technodoohickey that tells you the exact connectedness-to-the-Force of everyone. It feels like one could take the MC levels of Yoda, Palapatine, Exar Kun, whoever, and compare them and just make a single, simple table of "strongest Force-users sorted by capabilities". It reduces the magic and the emotional side of the Force - yes, I know, even though having lots of MCs isn't enough and you also need personality and training and whatever. It means there's an exact measure of the amount of talent you have for it.
Of course, it all comes down to Lucas not being able to figure out how "this boy" could be the one the Prophecy is about other than by some very heavy handed guiding.
Of course, it all comes down to Lucas not being able to figure out how "this boy" could be the one the Prophecy is about other than by some very heavy handed guiding.
But nothing was actually explained. The mystery is actually still there. It was just embedded in science dressing. Instant space travel and sword fights were too. So this road all leads to scientific nitpicking of other things then as well, like light sabers and hyperdrive. You can't ignore one then get flustered by the other. Accept the dressing or get nitpicking.
In similar vein, robots with "bad motivators" and plasma swords that only work with special rare crystals are dumb details that ruin the magic of robots and light sabers. So let's nitpick those too.
Sure you can, by process of "is this cool, or dumb?" Lightsabers, unexplained gravity, this all falls under the heading of "it's cool and makes a neat story." Midichlorians are dumb. The end.
fade
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You're arguing with something I'm not saying. I'm not nitpicking. It's about the connotations and the feelings evoked. It doesn't matter that the explanation is incomplete, unrealistic, or poor. It matters that the story feel it evokes is completely different from what was established. The problem isn't that it's not good science fiction, it's that they gave it a science-based origin at all. The magic-based origin was better story-telling. They ruined the magic trick by showing us how it worked. It doesn't matter by contrast if you tell me you can never truly create a sentient robot. However, it would be poor story telling if you told me the droids were animated by magic, because we accept that they are science based.
The force is cool, lightsabers are cool, robots are cool. Midichlorians are dumb, rare crystals that make lightsabers work are dumb, bad motivators are dumb.
We are just interpreting that word differently. The sentiment is what I am getting at. The griping or lack of acceptance.
I wasn't arguing that it was good science fiction in any way. I'm not sure why you are arguing against that view point, in fact. My point was that when you try to delve into any of the superficially cool stuff of Star Wars (or any space fantasy) it gets dumb really quick. This is true for the force, lightsabers, space travel and robots. The technobabble is dumb for all of those things and NONE of the technobabble explains anything.
Crystals are canon from the Clone Wars cartoon. A bad motivator is as much a broken part as midichlorians are a part of a biological cell.
It be canon all it wants, but that's something that only a tiny percentage of people will see as part of a long series. The movies are the thing that everyone sees that have limited time to tell a story. Midichlorians are in the movies, rare crystals are not.
Anything not the movies is EU, canon or no. The Marvel comics I own are canon, doesn't make them any less EU.
...you know, I have sworn never to say or type this word again but...that was straight up retarded. There is no word better to describe this. Just...ugh.Science me this idiots:
fade
Staff member
I don't disagree that the technobabble really explains nothing. My point is that technobabble is really out of place from the get-go for the force. It weakens the established story and changes it at a very fundamental level, regardless of whether it's dumb or genius as an explanation.
My point is that it doesn't change anything at all. The Force is literally the same as it was before learning about midichlorians. It is only dumb because it breaks the illusion the audience holds. And that happens with more than just the force.
I think the Clone Wars show is also considered canon.
Yeah, I know, I meant that it may be canon, but it's still extended universe, like the current run of Marvel comics or all the books that are sure to be released. Anything going forward is canon apparently.[DOUBLEPOST=1451765661,1451765488][/DOUBLEPOST]And because I'm having fun seeing some of the sadder shit being posted online about this movie, here's another gem.
There's a part of me who likes to imagine some maintenance guy on Bespin found the lightsaber with the hand still clutching it, and was like, "Eww, dude!" and chucked the hand, having no idea who's it was. Just another day, another random body part.
fade
Staff member
They did a skit like this on Robot Chicken
[DOUBLEPOST=1451769354,1451769216][/DOUBLEPOST]
I put the prequels out of my head when I watch the other movies, so it's not really a concern for me. I talk about this stuff as a franchise, same as with the video games, books, etc., but for me the prequels are no more canon than the EU books at this point. If they aren't referenced at all in the new trilogy, all the better. In fact, I hope something in the new movies directly contradicts them.