Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats

The truly bad, horrible bullies are generally getting it worse at home. Which is also sad. :(
That'd be nice if that's all it was. But bullies come from all backgrounds. And there are MANY. It's not a few "true bullies" it is a LOT OF FUCKING MONSTERS out there. Saying "there's only a few real ones" lets most people say to themselves (or their parents think about them) that no matter how bad little Timmy/Marcy is, s/he's not a REAL monster.

News flash: yes s/he is. And they are ruining lives.
 
The truly bad, horrible bullies are generally getting it worse at home. Which is also sad. :(
I have something that I could add to this entire conversation, but I can't due to privacy issues.

Let's just say that my place of work is NOT cut out to hold youth of that age.
 
[citation needed]
Tress, if you have a school-age kid, ask them who's the person who's least popular in their class. If they start saying about how "weird" they are, or some other language that justifies being abusive, congratulations, your kid is a bully. If they're just awkward about somebody, then they're probably just on the sidelines and not actively bullying, but not stopping it either. If they were standing up against it, you'd already know, since they'd either A) be telling you about it, or B) be the victim of abuse themselves for trying to help, or C) they are already the victim and hopefully you already knew that.

In any collection of children (anybody really) over 10 people, the odds of somebody being bullied skyrocket, so it's basically every single class.

Think about it the other way: when have you ever heard about a school that did NOT have this problem? Not claim not to, but actual good contact with the kids? I'm thinking it's basically zero, because "tattling" is still a thing.




I have to stop. This topic brings up emotions that are "not healthy" for me. Rage, etc. Control your little monsters. If you aren't actively asking about it (or them telling you about others) they're probably at the least standing by while it happens, but probably at least occasionally perpetrating it to make sure they're not the target.
 
I'm not fond of spending my time writing long complex retorts on a forum where no one is ever going to change their mind, so...

You're wrong. You attribute horrible characteristics to all children because of whatever you've seen in your life, and it's wrong. Frankly, you sound unhinged to me and I agree it would be best if you took a long break from any discussion about bullying.
 
I agree with this article: Public art: Blame the city, not the artist The article is pretty much exactly what the title says. Click if you'd like to, but not strictly necessary for the discussion.

People too often blame the implementer, not the person who made the decision. And on something for Art obviously the artist is going to like their own work (most of the time, you'd hope), so I 100% do not blame him. I DO blame the people who decided it'd be a good idea to go full-scale on this (previous articles showed he'd made a small mock-up so they knew what they'd be getting). Yes Art is in the eye of the beholder, but at the same time you also (generally) know what most people will like, or at least be OK with.
 
Couple of stories that have some people shouting about violations of free speech today. First Airbnb is banning white supremacists. Secondly Google fires the author of the diversity memo.

My thoughts - I'm okay with what Google did. To put out a company memo saying "We shouldn't be hiring those people" is at minimum a disciplinary action if not an outright sacking. And if you do something that deserves disciplinary action, but your company gets bad publicity & a kicking from the press over it, said disciplinary action *will* be a sacking.

As for the Airbnb users I feel this falls under "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your rights to say it". If those users cause trouble whil booked into an Airbnb property, by all means ban them. But if all they are doing is going to a political protest you disagree with (even if those politics are repungnant), you can't just refuse to serve them.
 
As for the Airbnb users I feel this falls under "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your rights to say it". If those users cause trouble whil booked into an Airbnb property, by all means ban them. But if all they are doing is going to a political protest you disagree with (even if those politics are repungnant), you can't just refuse to serve them.
Being a white supremacist is not a protected class and it is not equivalent to being LGBTQ. There might be a line where this becomes a tricky subject but this isn't anywhere near it.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Being a white supremacist is not a protected class and it is not equivalent to being LGBTQ. There might be a line where this becomes a tricky subject but this isn't anywhere near it.
The way current law is, if you count Airbnb as a public accommodation (hotel), then it kinda does come near it.

Look at it this way, if a hotel was refusing to serve someone because they were a black supremacist, would you think they were within their rights?
 
Couple of stories that have some people shouting about violations of free speech today. First Airbnb is banning white supremacists. Secondly Google fires the author of the diversity memo
There were no violations of free speech. None whatsoever. Period. The end. Next case! As private companies they are not bound by the First Amendment. They want to ban nazis, they are well within their rights to do so. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences, either. So if you want to voice an unpopular opinion in public, you better be well prepared for the blowback.

Google is not Congress. Neither is Airbnb.[DOUBLEPOST=1502302338,1502302230][/DOUBLEPOST]
The way current law is, if you count Airbnb as a public accommodation (hotel), then it kinda does come near it.

Look at it this way, if a hotel was refusing to serve someone because they were a black supremacist, would you think they were within their rights?
Most hotels have signs conspicuously posted saying "We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone." Nazis would tend to be covered there.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
There were no violations of free speech. None whatsoever. End of discussion.
I don't disagree with you on google, employment is not a right, after all, but I'd just like to point out that using "end of discussion" on a discussion forum just makes you sound more like you're afraid of discussion rather than "clearly in the right."
 
I don't disagree with you on google, employment is not a right, after all, but I'd just like to point out that using "end of discussion" on a discussion forum just makes you sound more like you're afraid of discussion rather than "clearly in the right."
Better? :p
 
A

Anonymous

Anonymous

Secondly Google fires the author of the diversity memo.

My thoughts - I'm okay with what Google did. To put out a company memo saying "We shouldn't be hiring those people" is at minimum a disciplinary action if not an outright sacking. And if you do something that deserves disciplinary action, but your company gets bad publicity & a kicking from the press over it, said disciplinary action *will* be a sacking.
Link to the original document https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf

The quote you give is not in the document. Here is a section that is:
I hope it’s clear that I'm not saying that diversity is bad, that Google or society is 100% fair, that we shouldn't try to correct for existing biases, or that minorities have the same experience of those in the majority. My larger point is that we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism).
In additionl, what Google did by firing the person was likely illegal https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/nogoogle-should-not-have-fired-the-anti-diversity-.htmlThat link says that in California expressing political opinions are also protected by law there.
 
Being a white supremacist is not a protected class and it is not equivalent to being LGBTQ. There might be a line where this becomes a tricky subject but this isn't anywhere near it.
Ignore the fact of what their politics actually are for the moment. Are you really okay with a company refusing to serve someone because of their politics? If a school was teaching creationism in science class and Airbnb were refusing to rent rooms to people going to the area to protest that would you be okay with it?

Let's be honest this white supremacist rally is not going to go ahead peacefully. There will be arrests. If Airbnb keeps an eye on what's happening, crosschecks the list of people arrested against the list of people who were booked in with them to go to the rally and bans everyone who appears on both lists? That's fine. I have no problem with that. But they have to do something wrong before they can be punished.
The quote you give is not in the document.
Ah. Yeah, I wasn't actually trying to quote the document so much as give a pithy statement to sum up how the document was being presented in the press. Now that you've pointed that out I can see how my intentions weren't clear.
 
If a guest is making their politics known on arrival, they've made it quite clear that they are going to be trouble. Turning them away will do far more for workplace harmony than letting them in. I'd rather one jackass fill out a nasty comment card than having entire departments hate me for letting them in and subjecting them to the abuse.
 
Airbnb is basically Uber for hotels, right? You have a room in your house you want to be able to rent out for a night, Airbnb will be the go between, yes? I feel like this actually makes it difficult to look at it as if an actual hotel was doing the banning. In this case, the people with the rooms to rent are as much "customers" of Airbnb as the people doing the renting, and I could see banning hate groups from either side of that to protect the people listing the rooms for rent.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Airbnb is basically Uber for hotels, right? You have a room in your house you want to be able to rent out for a night, Airbnb will be the go between, yes? I feel like this actually makes it difficult to look at it as if an actual hotel was doing the banning. In this case, the people with the rooms to rent are as much "customers" of Airbnb as the people doing the renting, and I could see banning hate groups from either side of that to protect the people listing the rooms for rent.
It's a hazy area that will probably end up having to be settled in court.
 
Link to the original document https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf

The quote you give is not in the document. Here is a section that is:

In additionl, what Google did by firing the person was likely illegal https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/nogoogle-should-not-have-fired-the-anti-diversity-.htmlThat link says that in California expressing political opinions are also protected by law there.
Well...I haven't read the document but the part you quoted isn't really realistic. All organizations will have a common culture. It may not be reasonable to expect otherwise. The acceptable behavior, language, social values, etc. at Lehman Brothers is bound to be dramatically different than at Google. This is also true at academic institutions vs. private sector institutions. If someone doesn't agree with the culture, language, values of the institution they are at, I am not sure that 1.) complaining openly about it will be very persuasive (tilting windmills much?) or 2.) the author is being very mindful of their own place in the institution. Yelling "tribalism!" ignores the fact that it IS a tribe, that people are social creatures that require commonality to form bonds (which is conducive to productivity), and that throwing around pop psychology concepts is not really a diagnosis for any kind of institutional problem.
 
Top