I blame Shego.
Everyday sexual harassment of women
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
Image editing contest: If Men Had To Put Up With The Same Crap As Women
"Hah-haa!"
"Wait, this isn't funny, it's commentary."
"Oh, but it's so silly!"
--Patrick
"Hah-haa!"
"Wait, this isn't funny, it's commentary."
"Oh, but it's so silly!"
--Patrick
The skyrim one isn't even edited.
I'm sure there are some that would disagree.
I never understood the whole reversal idea. There have been situations where I thought "if our genders were reversed, this would be bad ... but I'm cool with it happening to me."
Women sexually objectify straight men, the men go:
GasBandit
Staff member
Just not as well dressed.
I can't be on Tumblr without seeing girls objectify gay men, but swap the genders and that continues.
figmentPez
Staff member
I couldn't get past the red carpet tuxedos pic. What a colossal lack of effort. No one pays much attention to guy's fashion choices at awards because most tuxedos look pretty much the same. If there were as much variety in menswear as there is in dresses, then you'd see the camera panning up and down the male bodies as well. If women all wore almost identical black dresses, people would pay a lot less attention.
GasBandit
Staff member
I guess this is a good place to post this... someone has protoyped color-change nail polish that changes color in the presence of date-rape drugs. Suitable for testing your drink.
https://www.facebook.com/undercovercolors
https://www.facebook.com/undercovercolors
I'd rather that money / effort go into teaching men not to sexually assault women instead
GasBandit
Staff member
And I'd rather be the king of Londinium and wear a shiny hat. But "Hay rapists stop raping" is no more effective than "Hey killers stop killing" or "Hey burglars stop burgling." If they get it worked out well enough, this color-change nail polish could be an effective tool to combat the problem, making would-be dosers fear "Ahmigawd what if she has that color change shit on her nails fuck man I don't want to go to jail they pass guys like me around like a spliff there" returning the power to his would-be victim, and perhaps even other women not even in that situation.
Kind of like how caller ID stomped out the vast majority of prank calls. Do you think the technology spent developing caller ID would have been better spent teaching preteens not to prank call?
GasBandit
Staff member
Man, I think even Scott Kurtz delved into this years and years ago. Remember the Halloween strip arc one year where Jade was mad at Brent, claiming he was objectifying her, so to let him "see what it feels like," they went to the PVP Halloween party dressed as each other, and JadeBrent spent the entire evening verbally objectifying him and making unsubtle innuendo and what not, and when she finally asked BrentJade "So how does it feel?" he basically replied he'd never been more turned on in his entire life?
Not meant as an example to "prove" anything, but just related content on the topic.
Not meant as an example to "prove" anything, but just related content on the topic.
I don't think Caller ID was made for the sole purpose of eliminating prank calls. This stuff has no function at all except in a society where people drug and rape each other on a regular basis, and I think we can be better than that.
GasBandit
Staff member
Actually, it was marketed explicitly as a tool to combat obscene phone calls. I remember the advertisements for it back in the 90s. The silhouette of a man in a dim room dialing a woman, breathing into the mouth piece as she asks "Hello? ... Who's this?" Then she takes a look at the caller ID box (had to get it in a separate box back then because obviously phones weren't equipped with it), "Your number's 555-1234, right?" And the guy panics and hangs up, with a look of "oh shit I'm gon'ta jail" on his face while the woman smiles broadly and hangs up, getting back to her dinner party or whatever.
Really, what other reason would you suggest they had for creating and offering caller ID as a paid extra service besides removing the anonymity from prank/obscene calls? People already used their answering machine to screen calls if they were into that (this was largely before voice mail caught on, too).
As for your second sentence, thousands of years of human history pretty much disagrees with you. We do live in a society and a world where people drug and rape each other - not on a "regular basis" but one time in a thousand will still ruin your life. You can't educate violent criminals not to be violent. At least not without some sci-fi ludovico shit we ain't got yet. You can only make them fear the consequences of being caught, and increase in their mind (and in reality) the likelihood of being busted.
You know what would work for reversal?
Think about guys' "crazy girl" stories. I mean aside from the "I was an asshole and my girlfriend was so crazy to dump me". The ones I tend to hear are of sudden serious commitment, instant labels, immediate expectations of romance and marriage, talk about future kids, etc WAY too soon, at what would be considered inappropriate points to bring them up, like upon meeting, or a first date.
That would be the equivalent. A lot of women would say they wouldn't want the sexual equivalent of those right off the bat. So, for straight guys to "know how it feels", you'd need to be harassing them with "do you love me?", or "let's get married", or ... I don't know, I'm sure guys can come up with more. Commitment/romantic objectification.
You know, we keep saying this, but some people either just don't get it, or choose not to believe it.
--Patrick
figmentPez
Staff member
And to illustrate what I mean by lack of effort, these are the type of suits & tuxedos that would be featured by fashion coverage of men:
I can guarantee you that the camera panned up and down Gerard Butler when he wore that kilt, and probably Robert Downey Jr. in that purple suit as well. If all the men worse stuff like this, and all the women wore virtually identical outfits, almost all the coverage would be on men. And that's why I think the article was lazy. It just said "Hey, what if we paid attention to men as they most commonly are?" Which is stupid, and indicates they aren't even aware that men get attention for dressing outside the norm.
If I lived somewhere with cooler weather, and had the money, I'd own a closet full of richly colored and patterned suits.
Goddamn RDJ is a pimp.
... Will Smith looks like he wants to sell me insurance. Or tell me about Xenu
I personally find "rape is about power, not about sex" to be a far too simplistic view of rape, which makes it a dangerous idea to propagate. Rape has both a sexual element and a power element. It would be wrong to trivialize either of them.
However, this line of thinking assumes rape is inextricably linked to some sort of (presumably nonconsensual) sexual act. This is not true. For me, at least, "rape" is not about a degrading sexual act, it is about the degradation inflicted by the act. This expands the definition to include states of forced intrusion which are not limited to the physical realm.
--Patrick
Necronic
Staff member
See really I like to think about it like the civil war...[DOUBLEPOST=1409023520,1409023106][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, I always sit with my legs spread open in any interaction that has a potential for a profitable disparity in the power dynamic, be it a man, woman, or even (I shit you not), and animal. If I'm negotiating, or even just pallin around with some buddies, I'm gonna do stuff that makes other people subconsciously uncomfortable. I make heavy eye contact. I smile with my teeth. I put my boots on the coffee table.
This isn't really targeted at women though. Just people I feel I need to dominate for whatever reason. Or just people I don't fucking like.
Sometimes it's the opposite. In those cases I need to show deference. I avoid eye contact. I keep my head lowered. I slouch to limit my full height.
Body language matters. Use it.
And fwiw my lady dominates the shit out of me regularly and there's really nothing I can do about it even though I am like a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier than her.....
I feel this is more about semantics though. By your definition, a hacker breaking into my email and posting the love letters I wrote to my ex-girlfriends would be a type of rape.
Anyway, I don't want to get into a debate about the definition of rape in the non-physical realm. My point is that parroting the idea of "rape is about power, not sex" is an over-simplification.
(On an unrelated note, I should go delete those love letters)
The problem is when you start getting into people suggesting things like chemical or physical castration as a means that rapists will no longer be able to rape anyone. This is not a solution. Rapists will still rape, regardless of whether they harbor actual sexual urges or not. It's also one of the reasons that male rape was swept under the rug for so long. It was impossible for people to believe for a long time that a woman, not having a penis, could rape a man.
So, yes, it is an important distinction to make.
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Yes, but that hacker would be raping your email acct for the purpose of shaming you. It is a discussion about semantics, but I've already said that language is so much richer to me than just 7 basic colors. I know I'm atypical. The puns come easier, though.
--Patrick
Yeah you and I have very different definitions of rape. That way of using it feels like hyperbole that just degrades the meaning of the word. I've always seen the definition as something involving the unwanted sexual assault of someone. I suppose you are going more towards the definition that is the violent seizure/plunder of something but the above example is still hyperbole under that as there is not the violence. It is a violation but not a rape.
www.dictionary.com
rape1
[reyp]
noun
1.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3.
statutory rape.
4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation:
the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
verb (used with object), raped, raping.
6.
to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.
to plunder (a place); despoil.
8.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.
verb (used without object), raped, raping.
9.
to commit rape.
So, you're both right.
This sort of thing has been discussed before.
Popular usage v. "soul of the language," etc.
Whichever meaning you choose, they're all criminal done with criminal intent.
--Patrick
Popular usage v. "soul of the language," etc.
Whichever meaning you choose, they're all criminal done with criminal intent.
--Patrick
True, but it does lend itself to "watering down" rape. And yes, I'm aware that some people like to jump up and down my throat when I say something like that, but there's a difference of gravity between a grope on the bus and being anally violated by 6 men in an alley. Calling both "rape" just means we need yet another word to distinctively mean the worst kind. Both are forms of sexual harassment, both are unacceptable intrusions in personal space and half a dozen other things. I'm not referring to your usage, specifically, Pat, 'cause I do know and understand what you mean, but some people would like to label "being forced to listen to a man drone on about something misogynist"as being "rape". At a certain point, someone could say "I've been raped!" and people wouldn't know how serious to take it. It's like using one sweeping term for everything from pickpocketing to carjacking and home invasions and mail fraud. Yes, they're all theft. But, while all of those are crappy, someone who got swindled out of $500 by a phishing scam gets a different reaction than someone whose home was invaded, whose care and memorabilia were stolen, etc etc. The second one almost being a form of rape, going by the whole "unwanted invasion of personal space" form.
Anyway, the general term ("theft") is, AFAIK, sexual harassment or whatever. "Rape" is a specific term for some of the worse variations, to me.
About the finger nails, I'm sure it can be a step-up to variations that change color with other chemical reactions. Fingernails that color when you're about to hit the limit on alcoholic content, or for all I care that change when you've consumed too many calories, or simply when you're turned on, or in the heat, or.... who knows. In 20 years, people might be arguing that chemically colorchanging nails didn't really start with detecting dat rape drugs, now did they?
Anyway, the general term ("theft") is, AFAIK, sexual harassment or whatever. "Rape" is a specific term for some of the worse variations, to me.
About the finger nails, I'm sure it can be a step-up to variations that change color with other chemical reactions. Fingernails that color when you're about to hit the limit on alcoholic content, or for all I care that change when you've consumed too many calories, or simply when you're turned on, or in the heat, or.... who knows. In 20 years, people might be arguing that chemically colorchanging nails didn't really start with detecting dat rape drugs, now did they?