Democratic Primary: Crisis of infinite candidates

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#36
I’m getting real tired of people on the far left seeing centrists as the enemy. If you are so far to one side of the spectrum that the middle looks evil, you need to take a long look in the mirror and think about what you’re doing. It’s one thing to disagree, it’s another to demonize.
 
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#38
That sounds like something Trump would say.
Has anyone ever seen them in the same room? Dundundundun....
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I’m getting real tired of people on the far left seeing centrists as the enemy. If you are so far to one side of the spectrum that the middle looks evil, you need to take a long look in the mirror and think about what you’re doing. It’s one thing to disagree, it’s another to demonize.
That wholly depends on what the 2 sides are...

I mean, the center between "lets kill all the white people!" and "let's not!" is killing half of the white people...
 
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#39
Plus Bernie is only a "Democrat" when election season comes around.
 
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#40
I’m getting real tired of people on the far left seeing centrists as the enemy. If you are so far to one side of the spectrum that the middle looks evil, you need to take a long look in the mirror and think about what you’re doing. It’s one thing to disagree, it’s another to demonize.
Centrism, by it's definition, favors the status quo, which is also what conservatives fight to uphold. And while centrism isn't the same as the far right of moving to facism, it doesn't help.

To give a better perspective, and use someone much better as speaking than myself, take a look at what Martin Luther King Jr said about "moderate whites" during the fight for civil rights.

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
 
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#41
Two counter-arguments:

I would argue that Conservatives fight to wind back the clock and restore systems of racism, sexism, and oppression. For example, a recent Conservative movement in support of voter ID laws is really an effort to restrict voting rights of minorities and lower class people. So it’s not mainting the status quo, but rather pulling society farther right.

Which leads me to counter-argument #2: I think American centrism is progressive, just slower than the far-left wants. The center wants to work towards making life more fair, more equal, more just. They just want to do it in a way that doesn’t burn everything else to the ground in the process.

But hey, maybe I’m projecting. It’s just that all my life whenever I meet someone on the left (not just left-of-center) they want revolution NOW and aren’t willing to think of anyone else’s point of view, or the costs of breaking society to get what they want.
 
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#42
Yes, and I understand that, and I'm still inclined to disagree. I know some people think Great People from the Past can never make mistakes and such - just look at the Founding Fathers worship many in the US tend to display, but also the way some people think anything in Latin is wise.
 
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#43
I think American centrism is progressive, just slower than the far-left wants. The center wants to work towards making life more fair, more equal, more just. They just want to do it in a way that doesn’t burn everything else to the ground in the process.
And this sums up my problem with so called centerism. For you (not you, Tress, you the hypothetical centerist reading this) it's ok to take things slowly and wait for everyone to get comfortable with the idea of progressive ideas. Like when Boogie said that marriage equality should have waited another 10 years when people would be more comfortable with it. But what that's saying is that marriage equality is less important than... people's feelings? Like not being able to see a sick loved one in the hospital is less important than parents having to explain to their kids that sometimes men love men?

I mean I get the idea. If we just kinda ...let things happen then we don't have to have this constant back and forth, right? But some things we just actually don't have time for. Climate change needs to be addressed 10 years ago. People are going to die waiting for people to get comfortable with the idea of police accountability.

So we can play the slow game, but it's going to cost lives. Some children will never see their parents again. Some people will die because they didn't get their insulin.

I get that centerists aren't bad people. Hell most are good. But they're good men who do nothing and in the meantime evil is triumphant. So yes, I'm frustrated with them.
 
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#44
the center between "lets kill all the white people!" and "let's not!" is killing half of the white people...
By that logic, so are "Let's maim all the white people!" or "Let's make all white people hemiplegic!"

--Patrick
 
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#45
American Centrism is still pretty far right, politically speaking, because the Right keeps pulling the middle towards them and going further right. Telling leftists their views are extreme is pointless because we're so far Right at the moment that ANY change seems extreme. Also...

tumblr_p9nociIrVS1uvrgzio1_540.jpg
 
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#46
American Centrism is still pretty far right, politically speaking, because the Right keeps pulling the middle towards them and going further right. Telling leftists their views are extreme is pointless because we're so far Right at the moment that ANY change seems extreme. Also...

View attachment 31690
So... based on the comic, being centrist = supporting murder. Wow.

I think I see @Gared ‘s point. Buh bye.

(From the thread, not the whole forum)
 
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#47
So... based on the comic, being centrist = supporting murder. Wow.

I think I see @Gared ‘s point. Buh bye.
No one is talking about you or claiming you support murder. You asked why progressives don't like centrists, this is the ideology of why.

And it's not like I don't understand centrism. I used to be very centrist myself. But that centrism was born of privilege because I am a mostly hetero (regardless of what @Bubble181 says :p) white cis man. From my point of view the far left were rabble rousers. Yeah, I agree with you but why must you be so radical about it?

That viewpoint eventually faded. If someone is of a marginalized or oppressed group, it's really hard to say hey, settle down, why you gotta rock the boat? Asking why does change need to happen now is the same as supporting the current status quo. Oppression is never ended by the oppressors, and if you ask to wait for what is right to come tomorrow instead of today, then tomorrow never comes.
 
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#48
So... based on the comic, being centrist = supporting murder. Wow.

I think I see @Gared ‘s point. Buh bye.
I mean... It's a comic. It has to make it's point in a limited amount of space and is going to exaggerate a bit to cover a lot of ground quickly.

Like, it's just pointing out that some issues don't HAVE a center. It's not saying that centerists love murder.
 
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#49
I mean... It's a comic. It has to make it's point in a limited amount of space and is going to exaggerate a bit to cover a lot of ground quickly.

Like, it's just pointing out that some issues don't HAVE a center. It's not saying that centerists love murder.
I'll say it, CENTRISTS FUCKING LOVE MURDER! COME FITE ME!

Except don't, because I'm out of shape, and you'll murder me.
 
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#51
I keep typing responses and then deleting them because I'm not sure how much deeper I want to get involved in this thread.

Trump is so bad that we're at "anyone but Trump," which means someone even slightly less bad than Trump looks good. Center is not where it was in 2015 in that regard, and probably a lot of other things.
 
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#52
And it's not like we've even seen the field yet. For all we know, Trump might actually decide to not run after this. I mean... I doubt it, but I could see him trying to make a deal for a pardon from a future Republican president for his silence and cooperation.
 
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#53
And it's not like we've even seen the field yet. For all we know, Trump might actually decide to not run after this. I mean... I doubt it, but I could see him trying to make a deal for a pardon from a future Republican president for his silence and cooperation.
Hah, I don't ever see that happening. That would require not only Trump being savvy, but to actually think he could be held to any accountability, and neither of those are possible.
 
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#54
Maybe his poor health will catch up with him and we will have no charisma Pence to go up against.
 

Dave

Staff member
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#55
If Pence gets into office and Elizabeth Warren gets the nomination there will be no debates because Pence's wife won't allow him alone on a stage with another woman.
 
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#57
If Pence gets into office and Elizabeth Warren gets the nomination there will be no debates because Pence's wife won't allow him alone on a stage with another woman.
Nah it's ok. Mother will be watching. Mother is always watching.
 
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#58
Hah, I don't ever see that happening. That would require not only Trump being savvy, but to actually think he could be held to any accountability, and neither of those are possible.
It would also mean he faces the possibility he might lose, which, in his world, is impossible - he's doing the very best possible in all polls, people love him, he's adored and there's not even a contest, really. Why bargain with some other would-be president if you'll just get re-elected anyway?
 
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#59
It would also mean he faces the possibility he might lose, which, in his world, is impossible - he's doing the very best possible in all polls, people love him, he's adored and there's not even a contest, really. Why bargain with some other would-be president if you'll just get re-elected anyway?
Maybe someone can dig up and revive Old Man Fred's rotting corpse so he can go tell his son how much of a piece of shit he is again. :devil:
 
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#60
So... based on the comic, being centrist = supporting murder. Wow.

What was that again about demonizing your opponents?

I mean, for fucks sakes, the comic even uses the word "sometimes"...
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By that logic, so are "Let's maim all the white people!" or "Let's make all white people hemiplegic!"

--Patrick
But then the "kill" side doesn't get anything it wanted, since all the white ppl r still alive.... .
 
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#61
What was that again about demonizing your opponents?

I mean, for fucks sakes, the comic even uses the word "sometimes"...
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But then the "kill" side doesn't get anything it wanted, since all the white ppl r still alive.... .
How about we just make them all braindead with mind-pulping reality tv and/or crappy education?
 
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#62
But then the "kill" side doesn't get anything it wanted, since all the white ppl r still alive.... .
Sure it does. In both examples, you’ve only half-killed them, either by killing them only halfway, or by only killing their bottom half.

—Patrick
 
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#63
Holy shit, is Biden really the frontrunner?

Fuck, if people thought Hillary depressed the Dem turnout, how do you think Joe "We need to show more empathy to lynch mobs" Biden is going to fare?
 
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#64
Holy shit, is Biden really the frontrunner?

Fuck, if people thought Hillary depressed the Dem turnout, how do you think Joe "We need to show more empathy to lynch mobs" Biden is going to fare?
Primaries haven't even started yet, so I wouldn't think too much of poll numbers yet. Most people probably haven't even started thinking about it yet, just the really dedicated.
 
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#67
We're at 25 candidates and I don't know if that's abnormal.
It's very much abnormal. People talked about how weird it was that there were 17 republicans last time around. Thankfully there's nobody (as of now) who is a trump-level disaster in the field.
 
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#68
Holy shit, is Biden really the frontrunner?

Fuck, if people thought Hillary depressed the Dem turnout, how do you think Joe "We need to show more empathy to lynch mobs" Biden is going to fare?
jqpau6xc8c531.jpg
 
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#69
It's not abnormal because poll data is worthless in a 24/7 live firm environment, so no one has enough information to solidify around a candidate. It certainly doesn't help that anyone and everyone can grab at least SOME eyes, so if you don't let them into the game, it suddenly looks like you're trying to keep them out (which makes people want them MORE). There's also the simple fact that people with what would formerly be considered fringe ideas aren't considered fringe anymore... just like the Neo Nazis and White Supremacists were able to find each other and organize, so too have the people on the left.

Oddly enough, Trump is in the best position because people know he can at least win (because he's done it before).

tl;dr version - Everyone's on the board until people fail to keep attention.
 
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#70
I am really glad that primaries are a ballot in Colorado this year and the caucuses are informal, because going to a caucus is shit enough when there's only two real candidates. Hopefully most of them weed themselves out before then too.
 
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