[News] Several killed in Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

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Why hasn't someone done it yet?
Canada has 1/10 the population of the US, so one would expect such crimes to happen significantly less frequently. I thinks there's a good point to be made that access to free health care, including mental health care, would result in fewer incidents as well, but it certainly wouldn't resolve the problem, as Canada proves.

But I honestly don't think it's a cultural issue. I suspect it's a human issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Lortie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lepine
 
Should we let go of the restrictions we have now? Of course not, I never said that. I'm simply stating that in these situations, the proposed Gun Control tightening would have done nothing.
I'm not talking about current laws. I was talking about new ones.[DOUBLEPOST=1355858727][/DOUBLEPOST]
There has been a massive surge in gun sales after the Sandy Point tragedy. If you ask me, it's because of all the knee jerk "ban the guns!" rhetoric being thrown around now.
Why aren't my gun stocks going up????

Of course it is. It happens during every tragedy. People get worried and stock up.
 

North_Ranger

Staff member
No. What you call "Assault" weapons, BS scare-tactic term that it is, are explicitly the kind of weapon the 2nd amendment is about making sure is available. If a lone soldier can be expected to carry it, the 2nd amendment protects it. Did you not read my post? There is no level of gun control possible that will "stop these mass shootings."
See, this is what I never really understood. So weaponry that has been actually used to kill a lot of civilians can't be regulated because of a potential civic uprising?
 

GasBandit

Staff member
See, this is what I never really understood. So weaponry that has been actually used to kill a lot of civilians can't be regulated because of a potential civic uprising?
Potential civic uprising is our last trump card against tyranny. And when you have a federal government as huge and powerful as the US Federal government, it becomes more important than ever. Well, technically it's also to provide for defense against invasion but that doesn't seem as likely these days.

Like the old saying goes - where the people fear the government there is tyranny... where the government fears the people, there is liberty. I know I'm probably talking to a brick wall here, but our national experience has shown this sort of thing to be very important.[DOUBLEPOST=1355859473][/DOUBLEPOST]
Why aren't my gun stocks going up????
I'm no stock wizard, but I might check again after the emotionality calms down a bit and a backlog of orders has built back up, showing the rising demand in a way wall street can document.
 
Potential civic uprising is our last trump card against tyranny. And when you have a federal government as huge and powerful as the US Federal government, it becomes more important than ever. Well, technically it's also to provide for defense against invasion but that doesn't seem as likely these days.
this is the most crystal clear example of conservatives not realizing that the world today is completely different than it was in 1776
 
Canada has 1/10 the population of the US, so one would expect such crimes to happen significantly less frequently. I thinks there's a good point to be made that access to free health care, including mental health care, would result in fewer incidents as well, but it certainly wouldn't resolve the problem, as Canada proves.

But I honestly don't think it's a cultural issue. I suspect it's a human issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Lortie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lepine
I agree with you that it is a human issue but if it were purely a human issue would we not see similar results adjusted based on population globally? I don't think we are which is why I believe that there is a cultural aspect as well.

Incidentally both of those shooters you listed had (or were strongly thought to have) mental disorders... so yes... human issue there.

Dude, not "mass mass" but school shooting? It absolutely has happened already in Canada: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._R._Myers_High_School_shooting
In 1998. Only 8 days after Columbine according to the article.

And I wish I hadn't read that article. Apparently since he was 15 at the time, he only got a few years for it, is out, and is apparently still crazy.
I do remember the Taber shooting... sad case. Thankfully that gym teacher was there. The point I was trying to make though is that the level of violence and preparation in the majority of shootings in Canada seems paltry compared to what has been going on in the USA.

Although that shooting in Norway in 2011 makes all of these pale in comaparison.

I don't even know what the answer is anymore... I'm just losing a lot of faith in people in general.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I smacked myself in the head because I should have remembered this, but Connecticut already has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. The fact of the matter is that gun control is about as effective in america as marijuana prohibition.
 
Do you know who has super strict gun laws?

Japan.
It's much easier for Japan to be restrictive with firearms when they don't produce them domestically and live on an island. Any gun that enters the country is ether...

- a declared import for domestic sale (which has paperwork and it's nearly impossible to get a carry permit)
- a World War 2 relic (most of which were destroyed and sit at the bottom of Tokyo harbor, but some escaped)
- in the hands of a police officer or SDF member
- brought in by the Yakuza, the Triads, or Korean mafia (who are all notorious for keeping the numbers small)

Basically, if a gun is used in a crime in Japan, it's pretty easy to figure out who did it and how they got it. It's also really fucking hard to get a gun and bullets aren't commonly available.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
If you go by the reported (which is only as accurate as it can be based on reports) sexual assault statistics, the US is way ahead in that area too.
There's a reason why the first half of your post had to be a disclaimer - Japanese culture stigmatizes the victim in these circumstances so that they don't report the assaults when they happen, and when they do, police and prosecutors drag their feet on the matter, further discouraging victims from coming forward.

But as Ashburner is pointing out, Japan is not America. It's a tiny island nation which never had a frontier to pacify with a miniscule population that has had gun control for hundreds of years in a culture that vehemently emphasizes conformity over individuality. You might as well say gun control works for carpenter ants.
 
I'm ok with handguns, hunting rifles, and shotguns. Those are fairly obviously used for hunting/defense. Fully and semi automatic weapons are not defensive weapons. Hell, even for sporting or skill shooting they aren't good as they aren't terribly accurate.
 

Zappit

Staff member
The fact of the matter is that gun control is about as effective in america as marijuana prohibition.
Priorities are different there, I suppose. When was the last time marijuana used to murder 20+ people at a time? There are worse thing for people to worry about, like the topic we're actually discussing.
 
I'm ok with handguns, hunting rifles, and shotguns. Those are fairly obviously used for hunting/defense. Fully and semi automatic weapons are not defensive weapons. Hell, even for sporting or skill shooting they aren't good as they aren't terribly accurate.
Fully automatic weapons have been banned since 1934, the ban was reinforced in 1986. You cannot buy automatic weapons in the US. Semi-automatic is very much a sporting rifle, I use a .22 for hunting squirrels, a 12 gauge shotgun for duck hunting. Semi-auto just means that the chamber pressure is used to load the next round in the chamber but you still have to pull the trigger for each shot.
 
Yeesh, GasBandit hits a triple homer with some serious stats/links on that one. Well done. (Zero sarcasm intended)

Fully automatic weapons have been banned since 1934, the ban was reinforced in 1986. You cannot buy automatic weapons in the US. Semi-automatic is very much a sporting rifle, I use a .22 for hunting squirrels, a 12 gauge shotgun for duck hunting. Semi-auto just means that the chamber pressure is used to load the next round in the chamber but you still have to pull the trigger for each shot.
But it's perfectly legal to buy an add-on that takes 5 minutes to install and make the Semi-Autos into Fully Autos. el oh el
 
Fully automatic weapons have been banned since 1934, the ban was reinforced in 1986. You cannot buy automatic weapons in the US. Semi-automatic is very much a sporting rifle, I use a .22 for hunting squirrels, a 12 gauge shotgun for duck hunting. Semi-auto just means that the chamber pressure is used to load the next round in the chamber but you still have to pull the trigger for each shot.
Uh huh.
 
Potential civic uprising is our last trump card against tyranny. And when you have a federal government as huge and powerful as the US Federal government, it becomes more important than ever. Well, technically it's also to provide for defense against invasion but that doesn't seem as likely these days.

Like the old saying goes - where the people fear the government there is tyranny... where the government fears the people, there is liberty. I know I'm probably talking to a brick wall here, but our national experience has shown this sort of thing to be very important.[DOUBLEPOST=1355859473][/DOUBLEPOST]

I'm no stock wizard, but I might check again after the emotionality calms down a bit and a backlog of orders has built back up, showing the rising demand in a way wall street can document.
 
It's always the goddamn tyrants excuse. Do you realize we almost ousted a president for getting a blow job? There will never be a violent government take over in the United States. That's the great thing about our government, there are three powers that balance each other out. Let's play Devils advocate for a moment... If the president actually did declare himself king of the US, do you honestly believe that the entire legion would obey his whim? Every general order to shoot US citizens? I highly doubt it. And even if that would occur. Do a bunch of dumb fuck, backwoods rednecks with NRA memberships stand a remote chance against the full might of the US Military machine? What are you going to do against an Abrams tank rolling over your house?

If gun nuts are so afraid of a tyrant taking over the country, then maybe they should pull their heads out of their asses and stop supporting so much funding to the Defense Department.
 
Do a bunch of dumb fuck, backwoods rednecks with NRA memberships stand a remote chance against the full might of the US Military machine? What are you going to do against an Abrams tank rolling over your house?
If gun nuts are so afraid of a tyrant taking over the country, then maybe they should pull their heads out of their asses and stop supporting so much funding to the Defense Department.
Ask the Iraqis, Afghans, and Vietnamese....
 
Ask the Iraqis, Afghans, and Vietnamese....
No, ask the people of the United States. Don't make comparisons of our country to unstable, puppet states. Britain is past its colonizing Empire peak, did it devolve into survival of the fittest state of chaos followed by a dictatorship?
 
Silent Bob - I think the Tyranny is not Tyrants but more the Tyranny of Evil Men that would take advantage of the everyday person no longer having access to a firearm for defense against the criminal who still would.
 
As opposed to the tyranny of evil men that are squeezing every last cent out of the less fortunate of us already?

We don't line them up against the wall, we make reality shows about them so they can shove their bloodsucking in our faces even more.
 
It's always the goddamn tyrants excuse. Do you realize we almost ousted a president for getting a blow job? There will never be a violent government take over in the United States. That's the great thing about our government, there are three powers that balance each other out.
A violent coup is highly unlikely in any first world country, though the dismantling of civil liberties and subversion of the political process does not require it, if history serves as a guide. But even so, it is quite hard to envision the populace of the United States rising up in an armed struggle in any case.
And even if that would occur. Do a bunch of dumb fuck, backwoods rednecks with NRA memberships stand a remote chance against the full might of the US Military machine?
In terms of taking and holding ground? A snowball's chance in hell. In terms of attrition through asymmetric warfare? Perhaps, though as I said, that situation is hard to envision.
 
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