Dave
Staff member
I personally know 3 people who have gone to Mexico to have procedures done. And I don't know that many people.
Yes, but how many of them are president?
That is why the "both sides" argument is a red herring. You're message isn't factually wrong, it's just irrelevant.
Dave
Staff member
Now. But that pendulum will swing and is swinging.
Senator Dianne Feinstein has been very vocal about calling for a complete and total gun ban. She's probably the only Senator to do so, and she has little to know support, but she is a fairly powerful Senator and she has most definitely been taking that position.
Of course, that probably has to do with having seen Harvey Milk and George Moscone assassinated right in front of her by a former colleague.
For those not familiar: San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Board of Supervisors member Harvey Milk (the first openly gay elected official in California) were shot to dead by former policeman, firefighter, and Board member Dan White. White had thwarted or modified a lot of the neighborhood based initiatives that Moscone, Milk, Carol Ruth Silver, were promoting. White and Milk particular came to clashes over LGBT issues in White's district, where Milk had wanted to place a group home, and White cast the only dissenting vote against San Francisco's landmark gay rights ordinance. With his business failing, dissatisfaction with the liberal policies growing, and low salary as board supervisor, White resigned on November 10, 1978. The mayor was allowed to appoint his successor, and White's backers in the business community urged him to rescind his resignation in order to keep a conservative in the position. Milk, Silver, and then-Assemblyman Willie Brown urged Moscone to not re-appoint White. Then the news of the Jonestown massacre broke, and many of the dead were former Bay residents. The Mayor pushed back the appointment for several days before choosing to nominate Don Horanzy.
On November 27, 1978, White entered town hall with his police revolver, and took a meeting with Moscone. When Moscone refused to reappoint him, White shot him in the shoulder and chest, tearing his lung. White then fired a shot into each ear from six inches away, killing Moscone, then reloaded. White left Moscone's office where he encountered Board President Dianne Feinstein, who attempted to stop him, and was told "There's something need to do first." That something was going into Harvey Milk's office, and he proceeded to shoot Milk five times - once in the wrist in a defensive injury, twice in the chest, then twice in the head at close range. White fled the scene as Feinstein entered. She had to announce to the public that Moscone and Milk had been assassinated.
So I imagine having been essentially a survivor and witness to a double murder might have shaped her opinion on the matter.
Of course, that probably has to do with having seen Harvey Milk and George Moscone assassinated right in front of her by a former colleague.
For those not familiar: San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and Board of Supervisors member Harvey Milk (the first openly gay elected official in California) were shot to dead by former policeman, firefighter, and Board member Dan White. White had thwarted or modified a lot of the neighborhood based initiatives that Moscone, Milk, Carol Ruth Silver, were promoting. White and Milk particular came to clashes over LGBT issues in White's district, where Milk had wanted to place a group home, and White cast the only dissenting vote against San Francisco's landmark gay rights ordinance. With his business failing, dissatisfaction with the liberal policies growing, and low salary as board supervisor, White resigned on November 10, 1978. The mayor was allowed to appoint his successor, and White's backers in the business community urged him to rescind his resignation in order to keep a conservative in the position. Milk, Silver, and then-Assemblyman Willie Brown urged Moscone to not re-appoint White. Then the news of the Jonestown massacre broke, and many of the dead were former Bay residents. The Mayor pushed back the appointment for several days before choosing to nominate Don Horanzy.
On November 27, 1978, White entered town hall with his police revolver, and took a meeting with Moscone. When Moscone refused to reappoint him, White shot him in the shoulder and chest, tearing his lung. White then fired a shot into each ear from six inches away, killing Moscone, then reloaded. White left Moscone's office where he encountered Board President Dianne Feinstein, who attempted to stop him, and was told "There's something need to do first." That something was going into Harvey Milk's office, and he proceeded to shoot Milk five times - once in the wrist in a defensive injury, twice in the chest, then twice in the head at close range. White fled the scene as Feinstein entered. She had to announce to the public that Moscone and Milk had been assassinated.
So I imagine having been essentially a survivor and witness to a double murder might have shaped her opinion on the matter.
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GasBandit
Staff member
I'm worried about how much of a commie the president after trump will be, but I'm REALLY worried about the ultrafascist who comes after THAT.
Because there's no political thought these days other than DOUBLE DOWN AND LEAN INTO IT, and feel justified because you've got to "fix" what the last guy did to the country.
Dubya had to fix what Clinton did
Obama had to fix what Dubya did
Trump has to fix what Obama did
(People's Glorious Revolutionary Leftist) has to fix what Trump did
(Actual unironic totalitarian theocrat emperor) has to fix what PGRL did...
Because there's no political thought these days other than DOUBLE DOWN AND LEAN INTO IT, and feel justified because you've got to "fix" what the last guy did to the country.
Dubya had to fix what Clinton did
Obama had to fix what Dubya did
Trump has to fix what Obama did
(People's Glorious Revolutionary Leftist) has to fix what Trump did
(Actual unironic totalitarian theocrat emperor) has to fix what PGRL did...
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Sure, and that's fine. But when your house is on fire, discussion about water damage is less than helpful
Dave
Staff member
It's a big country with a lot of people. We can and should work on multiple things at the same time. So firefighting and mitigating the damage caused by the water is a real and ongoing conversation we should be having.
Like chemo tearing down the body to kill the cancer. yeah, eradicating the cancer should be our main goal, but we should strive to finding better and less destructive ways of doing it.
Like chemo tearing down the body to kill the cancer. yeah, eradicating the cancer should be our main goal, but we should strive to finding better and less destructive ways of doing it.
Shultz 2020.
GasBandit
Staff member
"I don't think this is the best way to put out the fire, though..."
"Look, I swear to god, I've seen them put out oil well fires with dynamite. Puts that fire RIGHT out. And the fire is the problem right now, so don't give me any of your "but this will destroy the house" bullcrap. We're putting this fire out, end of story."
The untold third line: "Who cares about YOUR house? It's already on fire because I threw that lit gas can in. I'm more worried about my house next door!"
Disempower the president.
I don't get a name-drop? I am insulted, sir! INSULTED!
Oh, just came in to comment Trump didn't drop the healthcare thing for any of those reasons. Mitch told him no.
Ah yes, the totally leftist Obama, who dared to implement the super-leftist healthcare reform that totally wasn't just a slightly reworked version of the one suggested by the commie Heritage Foundation, and implemented at the state lever by known marxist mormon Mitt Romney...
Their problem with Obama wasn't his policies, and you know it...
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It's almost like they know they'll be hurting their voters...
Dave
Staff member
Since when has that stopped any of their policies?
Slightly more accurate
What does any of that have to do with how republicans will spin their voters losing their healthcare?
GasBandit
Staff member
It was mainly his unprecedented executive overreach in the name of his policies. Which is what the pattern I was outlaying in my post was.
"If Congress won't act, I will"
"Here, have an executive order unilaterally enacting something I said on camera wasn't in my power to do"
I said it then, and I'll remind you and everybody else - that basically set the table for President Trump's all-you-can-eat power abusmorasbord.
As I've pointed out before "zealotry of the convert"
That's more because the senate refuses to do a damn thing about trump or his actions. He didn't overpower them, they willingly ceded their power.
During the primaries when I still thought Trump was a bit of a joke candidate and certainly wouldn't win, I thought he represented that backlash against having "the establishment" in the office for 2 terms. Now, that we have had time to reflect on what kind of a president Obama was, I think he (trump) represents a backlash against decency and self-control. He sadly truly represents most modern americans, even if they voted for him or not.
GasBandit
Staff member
That's our Blots, winning hearts and minds to the cause.
If you voted for Donald trump in 2016 you are irredeemable trash that the world would be better off without. Any attempt at winning them over is a waste of effort.
Besides, what's so offensive about calling a place a shithole anyways?
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to people who just vote party line, but at the same time, anyone who just blindly votes party line as a Republican in the last 10+ years is probably voting against their own self interest, unless they are rich or extremely religious. They just refuse to accept that.
That said, blindly voting down the party line in any case, for any party, is bad. Do your research.
