What does the Confederate flag mean?

I'm just here to ask a simple, non-controversial question: what does the Confederate flag mean? Should it still fly in former Confederate states? The argument I hear most often is that the Confederacy and the Civil War were about states' rights, and there's more to it than the easy narrative of slavery: but can it honestly be argued that any right was fought for more than the right to own slaves?

Is the Confederate flag a piece of history to celebrate, or a piece of history to remember with sobriety and sombreness?
 
Consider when the southern states started adding it to their state flags. It was in the middle of the Civil Rights Movement. So one could say it means "Segregation now, segregation FOREVAH!"
 
Eh. I know I'm an outsider in this discussion, but...Well, it's a flag. It's a symbol. It can mean a lot of things, for a lot of people. Of course, it doesn't matter if *you* want to see it as a symbol of Hope and a Rebellious Spirit if other people consider it a symbol of racism and stupidity - just look at Hindus trying to reclaim the swastika.

that said, I (personally) don't consider it as bad a symbol as, for example, the Nazi flag. It still has a lot of negative connotations, though. Most of all, I equate it with a certain type of unwillingness to accept modernity and the changes time brings. Rednecks and old people talking about the Good Old Days, sure, but also simple minds in a complex world who can't accept that and try to hang on to a certain form of pride or sense of worth from "before it all got complicated". And, of course, badly tinted with some racism and some backwards stupidity.
 
Being from Texas, just about everyone I knew who had adoration for the confederate flag were also fairly redneck and racist.
 
A good friend of Mr. Z's, who's a great guy, but a little flighty and also ABC (American born Chinese) once said he really wanted to get a orange Charger with the flag on it and everything, like The Dukes of Hazzard. I had to explain to him why that would be a problem for a number of reasons.

Most of the time, I find Gas' answer to be true. I have also run into some people in life that just think the flag is something for southerners and have no idea what it's referring to.
 
Individuals who don't see an issue with the Confederate Battle Flag also tend to believe that the Civil War War Between The States was fought over States' Rights.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
A good friend of Mr. Z's, who's a great guy, but a little flighty and also ABC (American born Chinese) once said he really wanted to get a orange Charger with the flag on it and everything, like The Dukes of Hazzard. I had to explain to him why that would be a problem for a number of reasons.

Most of the time, I find Gas' answer to be true. I have also run into some people in life that just think the flag is something for southerners and have no idea what it's referring to.
Individuals who don't see an issue with the Confederate Battle Flag also tend to believe that the Civil War War Between The States was fought over States' Rights.
That's the not-so-plausible deniability I was talking about. If they live south of the Mason-Dixon, they know the stars and bars have racist connotations. But they might just not care because a) they're probably at least a little bit racist themselves (and I mean even above the Avenue Q baseline), and also "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me."
 
Why do people get so angry over protestors desecrating the American Flag? Generally it will come down to somebody in their family died protecting that flag.

The same holds true for southerners.

Then during the Civil Rights Era the fucking Klan used it as their symbol of intimidation.
 
It's mind-boggling to me that people are still angry that 150 years ago their ancestors were no longer allowed to enslave people.
They're just jealous that their ancestors got away with this stuff and lived it up easy but now they can't.

--Patrick
 
Grew up with a grandfather from Alabama. In my grandparents' house there was always a confederate flag. I grew up believing this was a symbol of being from the south. It was part of my heritage and I was told to be proud of it.

Then I started learning what that all really stood for.

The "n-word" was used often by my family from the south and the north, including a great-aunt and great-uncle who gave their dog that name. My grandfather was acquainted with an African-American man he worked with who was nicknamed Sarge. My grandmother wouldn't let Sarge in the house. He was never invited to stay for dinner or even to have a glass of water. I was told Sarge was nice for a n___er man because he knew his place.

I came home from school in 4th grade complaining about a friend who slighted me some how. She had an ethnic, African-American name. My grandmother in no uncertain terms told me that colored people were not my friends. She forbade me to talk to my friend again. I argued with her, but I was a 9 year old who was afraid of being punished for back talk even if I was right.

I was not allowed to date anyone who wasn't white. When I got engaged to Aussie, I was honestly nervous that my dad would freak out on me because he's half Mexican. I was prepared to tell my dad to take a long walk off of a short bridge if that did actually happen. However, when we lived in CA my parents would not go with us to my in-laws' house. They always had some excuse for why, but I am pretty sure it's because my dad's a racist and my mom would rather stay behind than have to listen to him bitching later on.

My dad, who is from a white trash northern family, would jump right on the bandwagon about porch monkeys and spear chuckers eating watermelons and fried chicken while collecting welfare, doing drugs, and having babies by the hundreds just to scam the system for food stamps. A few years ago, he emailed me a picture of Michelle Obama as a chimpanzee. He doesn't see anything wrong with pictures like that, but me telling him that it is racist and insulting means I've lost my sense of humor.

That battle flag was never approved by the Confederate Congress as the official flag. It was not used by confederate vets groups as a symbol of their service. From what I've read, it was basically lost to history until the late 1940's during a presidential campaign. Then the KKK started using it, too. Suddenly it became a symbol of the south.

For me the "stars and bars" is a symbol of hate, stagnation, excuses, and ignorance. My family wanted me to be proud of my southern roots. Instead I am/was disgusted by how they tried to make me believe that racism, bigotry, discrimination, and prejudice should be acceptable.
 
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Grew up with a grandfather from Alabama. In my grandparents' house there was always a confederate flag. I grew up believing this was a symbol of being from the south. It was part of my heritage and I was told to be proud of it.

Then I started learning what that all really stood for.

The "n-word" was used often by my family from the south and the north, including a great-aunt and great-uncle who gave their dog that name. My grandfather was acquainted with an African-American man he worked with who was nicknamed Sarge. My grandmother wouldn't let Sarge in the house. He was never invited to stay for dinner or even to have a glass of water. I was told Sarge was nice for a n___er man because he knew his place.

I came home from school in 4th grade complaining about a friend who slighted me some how. She had an ethnic, African-American name. My grandmother in no uncertain terms told me that colored people were not my friends. She forbade me to talk to my friend again. I argued with her, but I was a 9 year old who was afraid of being punished for back talk even if I was right.

I was not allowed to date anyone who wasn't white. When I got engaged to Aussie, I was honestly nervous that my dad would freak out on me because he's half Mexican. I was prepared to tell my dad to take a long walk off of a short bridge if that did actually happen. However, when we lived in CA my parents would not go with us to my in-laws' house. They always had some excuse for why, but I am pretty sure it's because my dad's a racist and my mom would rather stay behind than have to listen to him bitching later on.

My dad, who is from a white trash northern family, would jump right on the bandwagon about porch monkeys and spear chuckers eating watermelons and fried chicken while collecting welfare, doing drugs, and having babies by the hundreds just to scam the system for food stamps. A few years ago, he emailed me a picture of Michelle Obama as a chimpanzee. He doesn't see anything wrong with pictures like that, but me telling him that it is racist and insulting means I've lost my sense of humor.

That battle flag was never approved by the Confederate Congress as the official flag. It was not used by confederate vets groups as a symbol of their service. From what I've read, it was basically lost to history until the late 1940's during a presidential campaign. Then the KKK started using it, too. Suddenly it became a symbol of the south.

For me the "stars and bars" is a symbol of hate, stagnation, excuses, and ignorance. My family wanted me to be proud of my southern roots. Instead I am/was disgusted by how they tried to make me believe that racism, bigotry, discrimination, and prejudice should be something acceptable.
Are you my long-lost cousin?
 
If we're not related, then I'm willing to adopt you and your army of doomweasels. I could use someone else in my family life that I could look at and say "Do you believe this shit?!?" other than Aussie.
 
If we're not related, then I'm willing to adopt you and your army of doomweasels. I could use someone else in my family life that I could look at and say "Do you believe this shit?!?" other than Aussie.
Ma cousine!

And yeah, my family does pretty much the same crap. The overwhelming heat and humidity wasn't the only thing I was getting away from when I left for Canada.
 
Ma cousine!

And yeah, my family does pretty much the same crap. The overwhelming heat and humidity wasn't the only thing I was getting away from when I left for Canada.
Ma cousine! Trois bises! :D

I hear ya. We're not just staying in Hawaii for the beaches and weather.
 
Very off topic:
No. Well, yes. *hangs head* It's so ono.
The MC at the luau we went to was narrating at a certain point and was teaching us how "ono" meant "good/great" in Hawaiian and then said:
Rice pudding is ono! Poi is 'Oh No!'

He was a pretty good MC.
 
"So that flag you're flying is not you being a racist?"

"HELL NO, MAN. *insert warrgarble here*"

"So I guess you're a big supporter of TREASON and FAILURE?" *Spock eyebrow and walk away*
 

Dave

Staff member
What's really weird about it is the disconnect in some people. My former neighbor, Charlie, had the flag tattooed on his arm, yet he was the nicest guy and would talk/hang around with anyone. He didn't understand how the flag was racist and justified it by his pride in it and he not being racist. And he really wasn't.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
What's really weird about it is the disconnect in some people. My former neighbor, Charlie, had the flag tattooed on his arm, yet he was the nicest guy and would talk/hang around with anyone. He didn't understand how the flag was racist and justified it by his pride in it and he not being racist. And he really wasn't.
"Porch monkey. We're taking it back!"
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Depends on your definitions of "much" and "south." if you mean a non trivial portion (but not necessarily a majority) of Louisiana through Georgia, then ok... But if you mean the majority of Arizona through Florida and then up to Virginia, no.
 
A

Anonymous

Anonymous

What's really weird about it is the disconnect in some people. My former neighbor, Charlie, had the flag tattooed on his arm, yet he was the nicest guy and would talk/hang around with anyone. He didn't understand how the flag was racist and justified it by his pride in it and he not being racist. And he really wasn't.
I've met really kind, considerate, well-meaning neo-nazis. I'm overly familiar with a really kind, nice, considerate, thoughtful, intelligent child molester.
I'm not saying Charlie is a racist after all. I'm just pointing out it isn't rare for good, decent, honest folk in many ways, to be (beyond) horrible in another.
 
Very off topic:

The MC at the luau we went to was narrating at a certain point and was teaching us how "ono" meant "good/great" in Hawaiian and then said:
Rice pudding is ono! Poi is 'Oh No!'

He was a pretty good MC.
The MC at a luau a friend went to told them that poi is short for poison. It's meant to be eaten with very salty foods, so it's bland and gross on its own.
 
I'm just here to ask a simple, non-controversial question: what does the Confederate flag mean? Should it still fly in former Confederate states? The argument I hear most often is that the Confederacy and the Civil War were about states' rights, and there's more to it than the easy narrative of slavery: but can it honestly be argued that any right was fought for more than the right to own slaves?

Is the Confederate flag a piece of history to celebrate, or a piece of history to remember with sobriety and sombreness?

And I would say that argument is complete and total spun bullshit. Yeah, it was fought over State's rights.... Rights for southern states to chose not to abolish slavery. Let's all get one thing straight. Slavery was the life blood of the Southern economy. The Civil War was fought to keep that gravy train rolling. Period. That's the main reason.


The Confederate flag is a traitor's flag. Southern pride my ass. You could say the same thing about running a Nazi flag up a flagpole and spouting bullshit about German ubermensch pride. I find it hilarious to see Redneck bozos boast so much love for the Stars and Stripes when it's convenient (like bashing protesters), but spit on that flag when they bust out ol' Rebel. The fucking Civil War is over. The only Southern flag that matters is the shit stained white flag, those Grey bitches raised on April 9th 1865.
 
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