The Zoe Quinn sex-for-reviews scandal
- Thread starter GasBandit
- Start date
I'm pretty skeptical of this claim as well. Anecdotally, a huge chunk of D&D gamers that I've known ARE women.
There are sociopathic douchebags in every community.
There's a sizable percentage more in the gaming community. Players, journalists and gaming devs alike. We can theorize as to the why's (social isolation, demographic, etc) but I believe it's true. For what it's worth, I think SJW douchebags are just the other side of the misogyny douchebag coin--they're both insufferable.
Douchebags are worse on the internet.
There's a sizable percentage more in the gaming community. Players, journalists and gaming devs alike. We can theorize as to the why's (social isolation, demographic, etc) but I believe it's true. For what it's worth, I think SJW douchebags are just the other side of the misogyny douchebag coin--they're both insufferable.
Douchebags are worse on the internet.
Rekt is the new pwned?
You wanna go, brah? Yah wanna gah brah? Brah? Yah wah gah brah? Dah thah ah wah brah!
You're absolutely right. If you think about many hobbies, they're done in person. Gaming is different in respect to the online aspect. Hell, the whole "noob" name calling culture is a direct result of that. If you were an insufferable asshole during a lan party or GoldenEye match, you wouldn't get invited back.
The only thing that annoys me is D&D getting articles about how "awesome and inclusive" it is... for doing the exact same thing Pathfinder did in 2009. D&D gets articles talking about how inclusive it is, for having a picture of a woman of color in the PHB, and a letter saying "It's okay for players to have unconventional characters", Paizo gets people whining and saying they're quitting Pathfinder for being TOO inclusive by having an iconic character who is trans.
Whoa, which iconic is trans? Oh, the shaman. I had no idea.
GasBandit
Staff member
Apparently. It's absolutely asinine.
I downvote every reddit post I see with "rekt" in it. I feel like I'm pissing into the wind.
Yeah. It's basically not treaded as a huge big deal, just part of who she is (she is the pronoun used in her iconic history). http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lgcn?Meet-the-Iconics-Shardra-Geltl
GasBandit
Staff member
Anonymous responds to Quinn's chat logs, dissecting them point by point.
http://i.imgur.com/g385IJM.jpg
(huuuuuge picture, suspect most will TLDR, especially those who want to white knight)
http://i.imgur.com/g385IJM.jpg
(huuuuuge picture, suspect most will TLDR, especially those who want to white knight)
Yeah I've pretty much lost any sort of sympathy for either party.
Gaming journalism is corrupt and really fucked, but none of what anyone in this case is doing is helping - in fact, it's basically making everything worse by confusing the issue. Gaming in general does have some issues with women that need to be overcome - from the under-representation of female protagonists in gaming to the ways that women in the industry are treated. ZQ aside, reading some of the "tales from the trenches" about the game industry written by women and there is some really shocking behavior that is considered tolerable, and the knee jerk reaction to any complaints is, "Oh, you're making a big deal out of nothing." But cases like this, where someone uses measures designed to protect people as a bludgeon against the competition or valid criticism, are even worse.
Gaming journalism is corrupt and really fucked, but none of what anyone in this case is doing is helping - in fact, it's basically making everything worse by confusing the issue. Gaming in general does have some issues with women that need to be overcome - from the under-representation of female protagonists in gaming to the ways that women in the industry are treated. ZQ aside, reading some of the "tales from the trenches" about the game industry written by women and there is some really shocking behavior that is considered tolerable, and the knee jerk reaction to any complaints is, "Oh, you're making a big deal out of nothing." But cases like this, where someone uses measures designed to protect people as a bludgeon against the competition or valid criticism, are even worse.
Is she a Cleric? Are they ripping off the Pathfinder characters?!!!! RAGEHWAHGWGL!!!!!!![DOUBLEPOST=1410192762,1410192182][/DOUBLEPOST]
Wait it's the Shaman? huh, I thought all the fuss was over the Paladin in Wrath of the Righteous.
You know I didn't even think about inclusion in RPGs until this thread. On the one hand it's very inclusive because players make the characters and (in many cases) the story, so a large part of the games diversity is based around the players/party themselves. On the other hand, There's a large amount of character artwork, miniatures, and pre-made worlds/modules/campaigns/adventure paths. This bares more consideration.
GasBandit
Staff member
It's nice to say "everybody calm down and let's have a discussion about this" but then he goes on to focus only on the assholishness of the loud gamer types while glossing over/ignoring/breezing past the actual issues of concern vis a vis the game "journalists," and plays it all off as "yeah we're all friends, it's no big deal" which ignores the whole thing about money changing hands, mutual incestuous promotion, and even gets the sequence of events re: Jenn Frank flat out wrong. And let's not forget that Escapists' head honcho closed ranks and circled the wagons with Kotaku ("If Stephen Totillo supports Nathan Grayson, that's all the evidence you need") in their discussion thread on the matter, and in the same thread admitted that they put out a piece on "Zoe Quinn is being harrassed by wizardchan" on nothing more than her say alone (and even went on later to reiterate that they considered there being "no burden of proof on someone who is being hurt" - so apparently I can tell Greg Tito that Cliffy B is repeatedly sneaking into my room at night and punching me in the stomach while I sleep and apparently my word is good enough). Then they started clamping down and breaking out the deletions and bans in the thread, with only a "I told you guys this thread would be heavily moderated" shrug.
Techraptor needs someone to spellcheck their urls.
Well now, shit just got a bit more interesting. Bloody hell, what an incestuous bunch of assholes.
GasBandit
Staff member
No, it wasn't last time, either. They just use the same intro gag.
Things just keep circling the drain for this... and the sad part is NOTHING will happen about it because the journalists are in bed with everyone involved (non-literally... well, for most of them anyway).
The creator of that video sure went a long way just to call somebody a slut.
GasBandit
Staff member
He, and the rest of us, would not have cared how many people she's slept with if they were not all influential members of the indie gaming/reviewing/awarding community operating basically an indie game cartel.
Basically this. The sex is not important, only the entanglements it creates and right now we have a vertible mafia.
Oh, I don't disagree. I just feel like the very end of the video was unnecessary. It's the same way I feel about Anita Sarkeesian. I don't feel she's -wrong- in her statements, just that the way she presents them weakens the argument.
Sigh ...Remember when "police were called" by Sarkeesian?
(edit- more context)
The FBI does.Remember when "police were called" by Sarkeesian?
(edit- more context)
Attachments
GasBandit
Staff member
Excellent.
Now, do you honestly believe the FBI told her she should just quit doing her "work?"
GasBandit
Staff member
Frank, you're a cop. If a girl told you she was getting death threats because of her work, would you ever say "well maybe you should stop your work then?"