The Zoe Quinn sex-for-reviews scandal
- Thread starter GasBandit
- Start date
In Soviet Canada
Police the Fuck
... that didn't work so well.
Police the Fuck
... that didn't work so well.
In Soviet Canada police fuck you... No that doesn't work either.. That happens everywhere
Yeah, individual officers have said worse about more severe cases; I wouldn't call this out of the realm of possibility. Does that mean it happened? There's no way to prove it. But it's certainly possible.
EDIT: Wait, wouldn't Charlie say ALL police officers are insensitive jerks or something?
EDIT: Wait, wouldn't Charlie say ALL police officers are insensitive jerks or something?
The implication of GB's post is that no police officer would ever say something like that. It's being a Charlie in the term of generalizing the police population as all being some homogenous hivemind that all think and feel the same.
GasBandit
Staff member
There's being an insensitive jerk, and there's being that guy. I'll say this, I didn't think there'd be a cop (or FBI agent as the case may be) who'd say "Well if they're threatening your life cuz of your work, stop working! Case closed, aight?" It seems to me that if they're going to catch the guy, they'd want her to keep doing it so they can net him when next he threatens.
However, Frank's response showed me I might be overestimating such people, sadly.
Not to split hairs, but there's a difference between "If they're threatening your life because of your work, stop doing that type of work" and "If they're threatening your life because of your work, stop working."
One says stop being a crybaby and do something else. The other says stop being a crybaby and run away from the world.
Given the amount of victim blaming that has come out of the police department over the years in terms of everything from race, gender, and sexuality, I don't find it hard to believe that some asshole told her this.
I'm curious to know why you're so intent on destroying her character, rather than attacking her arguments. That seems, I don't know, beneath you, intellectually.
GasBandit
Staff member
Even I'm not that doe-eyed. One's perspective on any given situation in front of you is influenced by previous experiences with that kind of situation.
I consider it differently (so long as your line of work isn't inherently dangerous). This would not be the case of someone complaining about bee stings because they took a job tending bees. If I get a death threat because somebody doesn't like a commercial I voice, am I expected to say "Welp, that's 11 years of radio experience down the tubes, time to start over! Is McDonald's hiring?"
"The" police department... which are we talking about here? Apparently she didn't go to the police in any case, but rather the FBI? Does the FBI have a track record of victim blaming? (Not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know)
I've spent time in the past addressing her bad examples and flawed arguments. This was a case of a picture that floated through my feed, and this seemed like a logical place to post it.
I could see it as more credible because to a lot of people, it's just internet, not a person's work. We know that's not the case, but you'd be amazed how many people in law enforcement, political positions, even companies, don't "get it" when it comes to anything on the internet. So I could see a police officer telling her that and meaning "so stop making them Youtubey videos".
From what I understand, she reported it to the SFPD, who then turned it over to the FBI, since it's a case that definitely crosses state lines and might be argued to fall under domestic terrorism, depending on your interpretation of the law. (some of the messages would certainly qualify for 'making terroristic threats')
"It's not a big truck! You can't just dump stuff on it."
No, I would not be surprised at all.[DOUBLEPOST=1410634444,1410634397][/DOUBLEPOST]
Assuming the recording equipment didn't "mysteriously fail at that point," sure.
--Patrick
Right, and 911 calls are confidential, and Law Enforcement Agencies generally don't discuss active cases, so is there any way to find out that she didn't?
Also, it's starting to get weird how invested people are in her being a liar about everything. Has she done ethically questionable things? Absolutely. Is she being harassed? Based on how discussions about her are going right now, that's safe to say yes as well. Has she done anything to earn death threats? Not by any reasonable standard.
Also, it's starting to get weird how invested people are in her being a liar about everything. Has she done ethically questionable things? Absolutely. Is she being harassed? Based on how discussions about her are going right now, that's safe to say yes as well. Has she done anything to earn death threats? Not by any reasonable standard.
GasBandit
Staff member
She is professionally enriching herself by actively harming video gaming. At least Bobby Kotick and EA don't pretend to a social cause to do so.
I think you're stretching it there, chief.
I have not heard of this person at all before this, and I doubt it'll be relevant by December. What you literally said is akin to saying someone like Tim Buckley or Scott Kurtz can bring down comic books.
Those who wanted to see Anita disappear have catastrophically failed. Instead of panning her videos and moving on, they give her more attention for the sake of attention. They harass her - giving her fuel to the cause and some go beyond the line and actively do these type of things... which is basically pushing the agenda even further.
If people really wanted her to disappear it was pretty straight forward.... stop watching her videos... stop giving her attention... just disregard her shite and move the fuck on.
If people really wanted her to disappear it was pretty straight forward.... stop watching her videos... stop giving her attention... just disregard her shite and move the fuck on.
GasBandit
Staff member
No offense, Math, but you've kinda been under a rock. Her videos have millions of views and her schtick has been burning up the gaming news websites and forums for years, including this one. As shown recently in this thread, she's also connected - by both social and financial ties - to the Silverstream Media clique that right now has a chokehold on the indie dev scene, the big indie gaming rewards show, and a large chunk of the gaming media.
She's been doing her "tropes vs women" series for 3 years now, what's going to happen to make her stop by december? Especially given that it's so lucrative for her (to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars).
That metaphor fails because Sarkeesian isn't making games. Rather, she's making money (a not insubstantial amount of money) by being the gaming feminist who cried wolf. But she's got supporters in the gaming industry, eager to jump on the bandwagon and prove how progressive and forward thinking they are.
Just a hypothetical example: As I referenced before, Sarkeesian uses a sequence in one of the Hitman games as an example of a game that "invites and rewards" players to commit violence on innocent strippers - despite the fact that the game actually penalizes you for harming them, and rewards you for sneaking by them without them noticing you. But that doesn't matter - by her altering the perception of this mechanic, it's not at all farfetched to imagine some mucketymuck in a suit at Square Enix saying "we've got to address this, no hurting women bystanders in the next game. Take out the option." A small adjustment, one less plastic soldier in the sandbox, but they add up. It's already been done - the gaming "feministas" forced artwork changes in the female armor for divinity: original sin. Because, you know, a breastplate that bares a midriff is tantamount to endorsing sexual slavery.
Over time, we notice that games just kinda suck more than they used to. Developers start making decisions based on angry feminist PR first and foremost, yet another self-censoring filter on the creative process.[DOUBLEPOST=1410655178,1410655144][/DOUBLEPOST]
That might have worked if half the gaming media wasn't in her clique.
Honestly, I don't really care about the sex.
I get in a fit over this stuff is the general dishonesty and profiteering fueled by cries of social justice.
Zoe slept with some guys? Whatever. Zoe lies about threats and misogyny in order to green-light her game, and further uses those connections and donators to then get rich off a possibly non-existent game jam? I have a problem with that.
Same with Anita. She has the right to say whatever she wants, but I hope she actually believes what she is saying, and is not using a hot button issue knowing that it will have a large donator base. The larger her "victimhood" the more money she will make from that base screaming misogyny. Thus why some of her videos she is digging hard for any hint of misogyny even when it's not there, because it supports her pockets to keep the outrage alive. This is also why people question the whole cop thing, because it seems awfully convenient.
This is the same reason I can't stand a lot of politicians.
I get in a fit over this stuff is the general dishonesty and profiteering fueled by cries of social justice.
Zoe slept with some guys? Whatever. Zoe lies about threats and misogyny in order to green-light her game, and further uses those connections and donators to then get rich off a possibly non-existent game jam? I have a problem with that.
Same with Anita. She has the right to say whatever she wants, but I hope she actually believes what she is saying, and is not using a hot button issue knowing that it will have a large donator base. The larger her "victimhood" the more money she will make from that base screaming misogyny. Thus why some of her videos she is digging hard for any hint of misogyny even when it's not there, because it supports her pockets to keep the outrage alive. This is also why people question the whole cop thing, because it seems awfully convenient.
This is the same reason I can't stand a lot of politicians.
Honestly, I welcome changes to gaming if that's what happens. They're not going to suck and we're not going to lose the types of games we already have. If anything, there will just be a greater diversity in games, which is something it really needs, in my opinion. Is no one else interested or excited by the prospect of new, diversive, different games? Or introducing a new audience to the medium? Or having new developers that bring something new to the medium?
Aren't some people saying these days that a lot of games are the same? Or they're all starting to kind of mesh together in some instances? I know I feel that way, especially about AAA games, as more studios just copy each other just to stay relevant. Indie gaming certainly has more diversity, but content-wise, it's still relatively similar (I say that as a very broad statement, keep in mind). Again, introducing new developers and new ideas that diversify the content would just bring more and new types of games.
It feels like gamers are treating people like Sarkeesian like Jack Thompson that kept going on and on about violence in video games. He wanted to destroy gaming. He wanted to tear down this "horrible" medium. He was on a warpath. Anita Sarkeesian isn't. At the worst, she just wants to change it from what it is now and make it more diversified and equal. And I, for one, welcome that. Yet gamers are treating her exactly as if she's another Jack Thompson when she couldn't be anything further from him.
Aren't some people saying these days that a lot of games are the same? Or they're all starting to kind of mesh together in some instances? I know I feel that way, especially about AAA games, as more studios just copy each other just to stay relevant. Indie gaming certainly has more diversity, but content-wise, it's still relatively similar (I say that as a very broad statement, keep in mind). Again, introducing new developers and new ideas that diversify the content would just bring more and new types of games.
It feels like gamers are treating people like Sarkeesian like Jack Thompson that kept going on and on about violence in video games. He wanted to destroy gaming. He wanted to tear down this "horrible" medium. He was on a warpath. Anita Sarkeesian isn't. At the worst, she just wants to change it from what it is now and make it more diversified and equal. And I, for one, welcome that. Yet gamers are treating her exactly as if she's another Jack Thompson when she couldn't be anything further from him.
Jack Thompson liked Mass Effect. He didn't want to tear down all gaming, just stuff like GTA.
At the same time, what your actually saying is "I don't care what kind of people get to be leaders in the industry or what they did to get there, as long as they make things better." What I think is that gamers need better feminist icons than the ones we have, because this whole thing really just shows that we're getting the ones we deserve, not the ones we need. Gaming should be and deserves to be a platform for all races, all genders, all... whatever to enjoy and to create for, but it's not worth the price if it's only accomplished through back room favors, predetermined outcomes, and people trying to enrich themselves by manipulating the controversy an the crowd.
We all want gaming to be better for everyone... but we can do better than what we've been given. People like The Fine Young Capitalists should be leading the way, not Zoey Quinn. Make THEM into the heroes they deserve to be.
I think Nick was talking about Sarkeesian, not Quinn, in response to those saying people like Sarkeesian are ruining gaming.
This was probably the wrong thread to bring up the Sarkeesian stuff. I'm not saying it should've continued in the gaming news thread, but Sarkeesian and Quinn are two very different issues.
Sorry, but if that's where you're starting off, that's where I stop reading. Because I never said that. Not once. Don't put words in my mouth.
If I may speak as a Nintendo fan--I'm good. Things are good for me. I am in the good zone for gaming.
This is EXACTLY what you people don't get. We're not making these women into heroes, we're defending their right not to be harassed.
You people? Fuck off for even comparing me to those assholes who think it's okay to send them vitriol, post naked pictures of them, or threaten to rape/kill them. I may think Quinn is scum and Sarkesian is a hack, but that's a far cry from DOING anything to them. They have every right to try and produce their content and voice their message and no one should stop them... but pointing out that they've been involved in a lot unethical shit that's helped their careers isn't harassment, it's fair judgement, especially with the rather hefty amount of evidence we've been given.
How they got where they are is suspicious and worthy of investigation. What is being done TO them is monstrous. But this isn't a two-sided issue and I'm not suddenly some MRA wackjob who wants them dead because I think we could find better women to represent gaming.
I'm pretty sure Sarkeesian got a Youtube account.
You may call me Detective Esc if you wish.
You know who I wish we had more of as far as females in gaming? More like Roberta Williams and Jane Jensen. Williams co-founded Sierra and was instrumental in making a lot of headway in PC gaming.