[Movies] The Upcoming Movies Trailer Thread
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It can't be worse than the M Night version.
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Can we just put a stop to that "joke"? Like, I really don't want this to turn into a big drama thing, but I'm genuinely tired of this "joke." I don't even mean to zero in on you with this, either, Gryfter, since I see it used all over social media.
It's Shyamalan. Shom-ah-lon. I don't like a lot of his work, either. His Last Airbender movie was atrocious. The last movie he did that i thought was great was Split. But make fun of him for his spotty work, not his non-American name. Blatantly mispronouncing his name for a joke is lazy comedy at best (the same joke has been made for 20-some years) and casually racist at worst.
I don't see ANYONE else in Hollywood get this but M Night Shyamalan. We don't call Arnold "Arnold Schwarzaburger" if we don't like his movies. People who didn't like Pacific Rim didn't go around calling the director Gizmo Del Toro or something. Michael Bay makes tons of shallow, mindless actions movies, arguably less interesting than ANYTHING Shyamalan has produced, but people don't go out of their way to mispronounce his name. And yet the one Indian guy, who even Anglicized his first name to just "M" gets this almost any time he's mentioned.
I also feel this way every time I see it, but I don't usually say anything because I assume whoever is doing it is using light racism to hide the fact that they can't spell.
Which is... better?
Yeah, I'm not pointing fingers and saying "Racism!" in this case. It IS casually racist, whether the person is aware or not, or what they intended.
But Christ, it's also just a lazy, overused joke, too. It's not even that hard to pronounce or hard to do a quick google search to check the spelling.
I don't know anything about The Last Airbender but at least visually this looks great.
Or to just call him M Night if you don't know how to spell it, not like anyone will be confused about who you mean.
Arnold I knew about, but wow, I didn't know about Del Toro (whose first name I often can't spell, so just refer to as Del Toro to save time).I always assumed people do it for the same reason they make fun of Benedict Cumberbatch's name: It's not common, can be hard if you're not familiar with it, and people poke fun of other people's names if it's an easy target. I never assumed it was racist. I mean, Cumberbatch arguably gets the treatment much harder than Shyamalan does. People poke fun of celebrities for lots of features/mannerisms/whatever.
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Gizmo Del Toro & Ryan Gosling at Disneyland instead of the 2015 Oscars
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Arnold used to get it so much earlier in his career that they made a bit about it in Last Action Hero
I mean, if the joke wears on you, fair play. But I don't see it as anything more egregious or malicious than any nickname the public bestows that teases a celeb.
I guess with M Night Shyamalan, I'm just tired of seeing the SAME joke over and over. Even "What a twist" has gotten old, especially when that was a thing in his earlier films, but not his later ones.
I wonder about the Del Toro thing, because that's been a running joke on What We Do In the Shadows since the first season. Although, when Lazlo refers to Guillermo as "Gizmo", it is a sign that he can't learn to respect him or his culture. The vampires are supposed to be out-of-touch and occasionally racist.
But Nick does have a point. Usually these nicknames come from "otherness", with some casually bigoted undertones. Arnold may have been white, but a lot of the mocking back then went hand-in-hand with his immigrant status and heavy accent. Benedict may be an exception, but that doesn't mean the others don't have more derogatory origins. No one has to like his work, but we have one Indian director in Hollywood, and making fun of his name just seems like low-hanging fruit.
But Nick does have a point. Usually these nicknames come from "otherness", with some casually bigoted undertones. Arnold may have been white, but a lot of the mocking back then went hand-in-hand with his immigrant status and heavy accent. Benedict may be an exception, but that doesn't mean the others don't have more derogatory origins. No one has to like his work, but we have one Indian director in Hollywood, and making fun of his name just seems like low-hanging fruit.
GasBandit
Staff member
... Arnold Schwartzenegger. Like they said.
Fair enough. Anyone else?
GasBandit
Staff member
I mean, there's an entire category of meme for this sort of thing, though perhaps it isn't as repetitively referenced as "Shyamalamadingdong."
But these are just "their name has a familiar word in it", while Del Toro, Shyamalan, Schwarzenegger have a "That's not English so I can't be bothered to say it right" note to them. Even Cumberbatch usually has a "this is a pretentious British name, so I'm butchering it".
GasBandit
Staff member
That is a valid point.
Another thing to consider, too, is how many actors have historically changed their names to hide their heritage (especially Jewish ones).
Like Nick said for the start, I don't think anyone thought you were saying it to be bigoted. If anything, I think everyones replies shows that most of the time, when we do this, it isn't meant with racist intent. But it historically does come bigoted origins and we should probably be more mindful in the future.
Oh I certainly didn't think you were racist or bigoted, it's just one of those things that has a racist source that we often don't realize or think about, up until you -do- think about it and then you can't unsee it
1) Except it's the SAME joke for the past, what, 30 years? It's not even original anymore. It's the adult equivalent of a 4 year old discovering their first knock knock joke and repeating the same one ad nauseum for weeks until you're sick of it. Like, make fun of his work, sure, but Christ, at least get some new material.
2) You can totally deride his work without being casually racist (intentionally or not) about it by purposely mispronouncing his name. Or do you do that for every director? You didn't like Wall-E, right? What derisive nickname did you give Andrew Stanton whenever you talked about his other work? Or does Shyamalan get that exclusive treatment?
If there's one thing we know about @Dave, it's that there's no way to stop him from telling bad, outdated jokes. He's the Rob Schneider* of our group!
In a completely unrelated note, has anyone read the behind the scenes stories about the time Milton Berl hosted SNL, and they had to keep telling him that he can't make "Polack" jokes?
* Ouch, that felt harsh, even for me.
I can assure you, after witnessing people who we are (supposedly) friendly with think it's hilarious to "Ching chang chong!" both my husband and my son, it is NOT funny. About as funny as the checkout girl who decided, even after seeing my id, to put my name in the system as "Ching Chang", which I still get mail for once in a while.
Hate his movies all you want. Hell, I think his work started to drop off starting with Signs. But casual racism because you don't like movies he makes? No.
So it sounds like people are arguing that the middle-school humor of purposely mispronouncing someone's last name with the intent of getting a laugh at someone's expense (or in this case to vent frustration of how M. Knight's work has been a total letdown) is casual racism because the name being lampooned is of an obviously different culture other than American.
Are there any culturally insensitive sounds in "Shamalamadingdong" in the same way that Celt Z's name is being mispronounced "Ching Chang Chong"* that I'm not seeing? Or is the conclusion that because his name is Indian it is off-limits to make fun of regardless?
I was called "Shawn Toad" quite a bit through school by people trying to get a rise out of me. I mean it's an Irish name but I never saw it as anything but just straight up bullying. I'm not a fan of the humor of mispronouncing anyone's name for the purpose of insulting them, but it is a form of pot-shot humor.
I feel like we need to be careful what we call "casual racism" so we don't dilute the true meaning of the term.
@Celt Z * btw, that's fucked up. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
Are there any culturally insensitive sounds in "Shamalamadingdong" in the same way that Celt Z's name is being mispronounced "Ching Chang Chong"* that I'm not seeing? Or is the conclusion that because his name is Indian it is off-limits to make fun of regardless?
I was called "Shawn Toad" quite a bit through school by people trying to get a rise out of me. I mean it's an Irish name but I never saw it as anything but just straight up bullying. I'm not a fan of the humor of mispronouncing anyone's name for the purpose of insulting them, but it is a form of pot-shot humor.
I feel like we need to be careful what we call "casual racism" so we don't dilute the true meaning of the term.
@Celt Z * btw, that's fucked up. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
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Dave
Staff member
What makes you think it’s racism at all? He’s got a funny name. Just like other examples in this very thread. Get offended by actually offensive things not just perceived ones. Intent is a real thing.
Dave
Staff member
And to @ThatNickGuy . You say that it’s a tired old joke. Have you SEEN my posts? Or do I need to tell you why I can’t eat rat toes?
Aside from sounding like the beginning of "Shamalamdingdong," what's funny about the name?
Seriously, outside of that one joke, what's funny about the name Shyamalan?
Yes, there actually is. I explained that in my previous posts. It's not like "Radcliffe" or "Anderson", which make a reference to something else. It's literally "your name is 'weird'(not Anglo or European) and therefore 'Funny'."
You say you're not, then you literally defend doing that?
People are telling you these are absolutely forms of casual racism, or have originated from it, but since it doesn't effect you, we're "diluting" the term?
I'm not the one doubling-down after other people pointed out where they were wrong. Maybe you shouldn't say
when both your "joke" and your argument is tired and weak.
I don't see his name as being mispronounced just because it's "funny sounding". I see it being mispronounced because they don't like his films. It's like if you pronounced it "Tom Cruisecontrol" or "Arnold Swartzenhammer". Is it racist? No. Is it juvenile jabs at aspects of those individuals that they have made famous/infamous about themselves? Absolutely. If they called every member of his family that name, or did something similar with other hard to pronounce names (And Shymalan isn't that hard to pronounce) then yes. That would be going too far.
I don't like toilet humor either. But it is a popular type of humor none-the-less.
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Not what I implied at all.
Looking it up this is the best description of casual racism that I can find. Please feel free to correct me if wrong.
Casual racism is one form of racism. It refers to conduct involving negative stereotypes or prejudices about people on the basis of race, colour or ethnicity. The intent is not about superiority but about making negative prejudices in a way that isn't meant to insult but it still affects your perception of others.
In this case you are arguing that this is affecting his ethnicity because it's his last name being joked about. An example of casual racism would be jokes that include racial stereotypes or crossing the street just to avoid someone who is of a particular race. Those "harmless stereotypes" that in general hurt perceptions about a race or culture.
Again I see the joke is because they don't like his films and think he's an idiot, so they gave him a name that sounds like something an idiot would have. Kinda the same way that if you were telling a story about someone who pissed you off that day and you change your voice to make them sound like the village idiot.
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Because this is LITERALLY what you're doing. You just defined what you're doing. You think because you don't throw an obvious slur in there, isn't suddenly NOT racist? You are making fun of not being able to pronounce his name correctly. If you we actually making fun of his work, you'd be calling him "M. Night ShALLMYFILMSUCK" or "M. Night SaWTHATTWISTCOMING" or "M. Night ONETRICKPONY". "Shaymalamadingdong" has nothing to do with his work and everything to do with his "weird" last name.