[Movies] The Upcoming Movies Trailer Thread
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Dave
Staff member
More like: 4 ordinary guys find an alien artifact that, while trying to see what it is, blows something up while all holding it. I mean, the whole plot is basically a rehash, including the all-powerful tech gadget.[DOUBLEPOST=1424805085,1424804992][/DOUBLEPOST]And I always found it weird that Indy fans have no issues with immortal knights, angels killing nazis, or a voodoo witch doctor grabbing someone's beating heart through their chest...yet having issues with aliens. Yet of all of them, aliens is the only one that has a chance to actually exist.
GasBandit
Staff member
Some things are better unexplained. It's like how everybody hates the concept of Midichlorians, that the Force shows up in a blood test.
I was about to write the same thing! The 4th Indy wasn't great for a number of reasons, but the aliens thing isn't really the biggest issue.
The alien thing is violation of a story theory. Now I can't remember the term that was coined on the concept, but the basic idea is this: A successful fantasy or sci-fi story centered in a reality is going to have maybe one unique aspect that sets it apart from that reality. This allows the audience to familiarize itself with that reality, and be able to accept the new element without much confrontation. Example: Toy Story. A world exactly like our own but toys can move and talk like individuals. Example: Jurassic Park. Our world except a company has genetically created dinosaurs. Now try adding something completely different to those stories, especially after you've already established their worlds. Cross Toy Story with The Incredibles. Now you have toys who walk and talk in a world of super heroes and villains. Or a world that has genetically created dinosaurs and the island is invaded by warlocks who wield dangerous magic. Both aspects of each story are good things... but together in a single story? Maybe a bit too much.
This is my problem with Crystal Skull. Raiders introduced us to the fact that religious artifacts can hold amazing magical power. This was the one element, which carried over into the next two films. In the 4th film there is no religious artifact. It is completely Sci-Fi based, and is established that the aliens were responsible for the religion of at least one culture, and that their "artifacts" were actually alien technology. Now you have a world where sci-fi and magic meet. Perhaps if this was established from the very beginning it might have been done differently, but it's clear in the first three films that there is no sci-fi element involved.
What does this do to the story? Well now the series feels like they ran out of ideas. It ignored what made the story interesting and changed genres. Now you have to go back and question the other three films. Are the religious artifacts in those films just alien tech? Do the Gods exist right along side alien cultures? It starts to make the audience ask questions they were never meant to.
The midichlorian thing is also a good example of where things went wrong (George Lucas is 2 for 2). Star Wars was established as a sci/fi and fantasy story right from the beginning. The Force was established in the first three films as more of a mystical element that couldn't be explained with technology. It was just something that everyone had and some could utilize to manipulate objects, minds and even time. Kind of like a wizard. Then GL goes and gives it a completely sci-fi backstory.
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While all three of the previous movies revolved around religious artifacts, they still have that inconsistency you talk about because the artifacts come from incompatible religions. If the audience can accept the christian God existing alongside Kali, the Mayans worshiping aliens isn't really any more of a stretch. It's still about a religious artifact, just one based on another object of worship. Marvel's also breaking that rule as well with the MCU and their ever growing kitchen sink of breaks from our reality. That's not to say there's not other problems with the Crystal Skull though.
I still feel it is a complete change in genres.
And yes. There are many numerous reasons beyond that example that makes Crystal Skull a terrible movie.
Going into this, the stated reason for the genre shift was to move the pulp inspirations up. In the 30's and 40's, a lot of pulp fiction involved searches for treasure that is perhaps mystical in nature, with the hero evading the forces of evil in order keep these things from those who abuse them. Considering the time period of when the movies take place, this is fine: Nazis are running around the world, looking for relics to make themselves even more powerful. But Kingdom of the Crystal Skull took place in the 50's, where the pulp imagination was fixated on Communists and Sci-fi. If the series was going to retain it's pulp feel, it would have to shift focus. Now Dr. Jones is dealing with atom bombs, commies invading Area 51 to steal an alien's corpse, and an impossibly made crystal artifact that turns out to be a genuine alien skull.
So no... the genre didn't change. KotCS is still a pulp adventure serial turned into a big budget movie. It's just that it's taking place in a different time that had different pulp sensibilities so the plot reflected that.
Hey, wow.... that might be the exact moment I stopped watching the movie.I still feel it is a complete change in genres.
And yes. There are many numerous reasons beyond that example that makes Crystal Skull a terrible movie.
I was referring to the switching of being a fantasy series to being a sci-fi series. So genre in broadest of terms. But I get what you mean. In that case why not just just change the characters if you need to change the inspiration of the pulp content?[DOUBLEPOST=1424819858,1424819736][/DOUBLEPOST]
An otherwise decent chase sequence... destroyed by that scene.
Why do they need to? The last minute reveal that they found an alien civilization doesn't suddenly change the fact that Indy spent the entire movie relying on his archeology skills to not only uncover the Crystal Skull, but to track down where it needs to go and how to get there. He's exactly the kind of guy you'd want for this thing.
Honestly, if they hadn't shown the god damn UFO at the end, the fact that they were aliens would have been moot. They were effectively gods and the skull was essentially a religious artifact. Their followers worship them. Does it really matter they were inter-dimensional beings and not some vague, ill-defined deity?
Would you like Toy Story as much if in a sequel you find out that aliens were the ones that brought them all to life?
I wouldn't care in the slightest because the mechanics of how it happened are irrelevant to the actual story. The fact that aliens are involved doesn't change the fear that Woody felt about being replaced. It wouldn't change his fears of being abandoned in a few years. It certainly doesn't change his decision to stick with his friends instead of having (maybe) getting to see Andy for a few more years.
This is like when people complain about the midichlorians thing in Star Wars. If that is enough to ruin the Force for you, you never really understood what it represented to begin with.
If it didn't represent a mystical force of great power that required no explanation to exist ("Religion"), what did it represent?
I'm not saying that "retcons" like this ruin the previous movies for me. I'm just saying that it ruins the initial feel that I had for these movies. The same happens for me in sequels where the actions of the first film (or films) seems completely pointless. An example is Men in Black and Men in Black 2. The ending of the first film shows K leaving the Men in Black and his memories, making an incredibly difficult decision so that he can be reunited with his one true love.
Since they wanted Tommy Lee Jones in the sequel they threw in that his one true love left him.
Romance is dead. Kinda makes his sacrifice at the end of the first film seem kind of a waste.
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Religion doesn't just represent the power itself, it also represents the drive of people to understand the universe (i.e. the entire point of religion). The fact that Quigon could test Anakin for potential force sensitivity via blood test does nothing to undermine the thousands of other factors that lead to him finding Anakin in the first place. Let's look at just a handful of them.
- He was the one tasked with negotiations with the Trade Federation
- This lead to him becoming involved in the politics of Naboo
- This lead to him getting trapped on Tatooine with the Queen
- This lead to him arriving in the city where Anakin lived
- He then had to find the one shop in the middle of a city full of junk shops that Anakin worked in
- He then had to notice that this kid, completely untrained, was capable of using the Force in a way that few others could
The fact that he wanted to blood test the kid to get an idea of his potential doesn't change the fact that The Force, through it's own agency and for reasons completely unknown to anyone, brought him millions of miles out of his way to find the kid. More to the point, the Jedi Order doesn't exist because they want to train kids in the ability to lift rocks with their will. It exists as a religious society because they want to understand The Force itself and how it drives and motivates the entire universe. This isn't out of a desire for power (for that is the way of the Sith), but out a desire to understand their own role in the order of the Universe.
To put it simply, the goal of the Jedi is to understand WHY they are able to effect The Force and to find a rational reason for the things it does. Midichlorians only tell them how this happens, not why it does.
It's also worth considering that Lucas himself considers midi-chlorians only half of the equation, if you listen to the Phantom Menace DVD commentary. It's the biological connection, but it does nothing to explain the meta-physical or spiritual connections of the Force.
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That would be a pretty great mini-series or anthology book. I can think of at least 5-6 different stories coming out of that little premise.
No he's just a crazy religious nut. It's all biological and perfectly explainable with science.
Crystal Skull was also a huge genre shift. It makes the movie off-putting to people when it throws everything they've been asked to accept about the world out the window.
Where others see coincidence, I see providence.
I agree with Ash in that the Force was manipulating events so that Qui-Gon would find Anakin.
In which he was only lead because tiny organisms were pooping a heaping load of Force into Anakin's blood stream.
I come into this thread and I find people defending the fucking midichlorians?
/out
/out
Repo Man?
The Gods Must Be Crazy?
The Killer Tongue?
The Incredible Melting Man?
Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure?
(Bonus Question: I've seen all of these movies except one)
--Patrick
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They probably wouldn't if the movie wasn't fucking terrible.
The best thing to happen to Star Wars is Lucas taking his hands out of the stew.
We'll probably get them on Toonami sooner or later... assuming they stop cutting it down.
For what it's worth, Dragonball Xenoverse is basically everything I've wanted in a Dragonball game... though they need to do something about the melee breaking abilities.
For what it's worth, Dragonball Xenoverse is basically everything I've wanted in a Dragonball game... though they need to do something about the melee breaking abilities.
...YUP that is pretty much the amount of effort I'd thought they'd put into Frieza's new super form. Fleh, I'll still watch it.
It looks pretty good, but I'm gonna wait until the price is lower.
As for this movie, Akira Toriyama says this one's going to be "serious" with "lots of action," so it sounds like exactly what I would've watched for DBZ as a teenager and exactly what I don't care for about it now. I still want to see the last DBZ movie because people say it was hilarious and fun, but this doesn't look fun. It just looks like more "rrrrgaaa" crap. Though it'd be funny if Goku and Vegeta had to fuse again for this.