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Steve Jobs Has Died

#1

Zappit

Zappit

Just breaking news now - no links yet - it's on the breaking news banner of the Yahoo page.

Msnbc is reporting it, too, now.


#2

Dave

Dave

Matter of time. I'm glad he's finally done with the pain.


#3

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Interesting timing....


#4

Zappit

Zappit

Shegokigo said:
Interesting timing....
Click to expand...
I doubt it's going to lead to an iJobs 2. I wouldn't bet on anyone having found him in a bar.


#5

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

america is losing jobs all over the place


#6

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Charlie Don't Surf said:
america is losing jobs all over the place
Click to expand...
...

*slow clap*

I'll allow that one.


#7

fade

fade

:(

Haters will hate, but the man was a visionary. The technology world is poorer for his death.


#8

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

No doubt he had an impact on the computing world, I'm just wondering, in reality, how much of the "genius" was his own ideas. None the less, a man who will forever be remembered in Tech History.


#9

fade

fade

That's a valid question. Most of it was likely designed by someone else, but he had the vision to push the good ideas out to the public in a way the public would consume it.


#10



Overflight

Now THIS is an awesome tribute:

http://boingboing.net/

RIP Steve Jobs. Regardless of your opinions on the company and its products, the world lost a visionary today.


#11

Gryfter

Gryfter



#12

PatrThom

PatrThom

This news traveled fast through my workplace. Lots of glances, raised eyebrows, and shrugs in between helping customers.

I think what I will miss most is now never knowing what was coming *next*.

Thanks for dragging us into the Future, Steve. And thanks for not caring whether or not we were ready for it.

--Patrick


#13



makare

It took me forever to remember how his last name is pronounced. God speed tech man.


#14

Jay

Jay

You work all your life to get to your retirement and then a month later...


#15

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I'm almost willing to bet he knew exactly how much time he had left when he resigned the CEO position.


#16

Jay

Jay

Looks like Steve Jobs is in his iCloud.


#17

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Dear Mr. Jobs, thank you for doing more than your part to drag the rest of us, kicking and screaming, into the future.

RIP.


#18

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

makare said:
It took me forever to remember how his last name is pronounced. God speed tech man.
Click to expand...
You can't pronounce Jobs?


#19



makare

I always wanted to pronounce it like Jobe like Job from the bible. I mean Jobs is a seriously stupid last name. I was giving him the benefit of my mispronunciation.


#20

Terrik

Terrik

Not as bad as my old classmate's last night of "Butkis". Oh, kids can be so cruel.


#21

Null

Null

I don't know how much a technical innovator Steve Jobs was, but what I do know is that he helped make personal computers into a viable consumer good - he was part of what made new technology profitable. There were mp3 players before the iPod - I think Sony had one - but he made them part of the culture. There were tablet computers before the iPad, but again, he made them into a cool, desirable product instead of a tool for specific purposes.

RIP Mr Jobs.


#22

Adam

Adammon

And in other news, Sarah Palin is not running for President. You win some, you lose some.


#23

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Adammon said:
And in other news, Sarah Palin is not running for President. You win some, you lose some.
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That got pointed out on Twitter a few times. She has got to be fuming right now. Steve went out with an epic troll. :)


#24

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Someone put up Steve Jobs interrupting Sarah Palin with the Kanye meme.


#25

Covar

Covar

Shegokigo said:
No doubt he had an impact on the computing world, I'm just wondering, in reality, how much of the "genius" was his own ideas. None the less, a man who will forever be remembered in Tech History.
Click to expand...
There's more to genius than pure technical skill. Wozniak would be the first to say if it wasn't for Jobs there would be no Apple Computer. The hardware design? Sure. An everything included machine like packaged and sold to users not to engineers? Probably not.


#26

IronBrig4

IronBrig4

My family's first computer was a Macintosh Centris 610. I remember cursing Apple because it never seemed to be compatible with the newer games. For a while it seemed like Mac computers were only for graphic designers and professional photographers. But then the iMacs (no floppy drive) and the first iPods came out, and Apple stuff suddenly became cool.


#27

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

IronBrig4 said:
My family's first computer was a Macintosh Centris 610.
Click to expand...
Liked just for this. I have fond, but also frustrated, memories of my Centris 610.


#28

Vagabond

Vagabond

There would not be a Pixar as we know it today without Steve Jobs.

I admire the fact that he continued working until the bitter end, and never let his illness become a major distraction.

Apple just isn't going to be the same, again.


#29

Mathias

Mathias

So are Apple fanboi's going to hold vigil over his grave for 3 days?


#30

phil

phil

Adammon said:
And in other news, Sarah Palin is not running for President. You win some, you lose some.
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I read this in the reverse of it's intent at first.


#31

fade

fade

Yes, all apple product owners have had our implants activated, and are tearing our clothes in unison.


#32

Vagabond

Vagabond


Mathias said:
So are Apple fanboi's going to hold vigil over his grave for 3 days?
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Don't be silly. Westboro Baptist Church has got all bases covered.


#33

strawman

strawman

At least those of us with the iSackcloth and iAshes upgrade.


#34

Espy

Espy

SpecialKO said:
Dear Mr. Jobs, thank you for doing more than your part to drag the rest of us, kicking and screaming, into the future.

RIP.
Click to expand...
Ditto.


#35

Tress

Tress

Mathias said:
So are Apple fanboi's going to hold vigil over his grave for 3 days?
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Candlelight vigil for Steve Jobs outside the Apple Store in SF.


#36



Biannoshufu

Just. Damn. :(


#37

TommiR

TommiR

I hope his tombstone will read iDead.


#38

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Why did it have to be cancer...?

He's making iWings for angels now...


#39

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

He definitely ranks as one of the people I never knew that changed my life.


#40

Shannow

Shannow

RIP


#41

Sara_2814

Sara_2814



#42



Chibibar

It is interesting to see the haters out there on the web. Some say that Steve Jobs is not an innovator or didn't design even 5% of the products.

Does it matter? He is the CEO (I use "is" cause I believe his essence still in the company) of Apple and guide the company to make wonderful products (I bet even the haters use) He may not personally design it himself, but he has a team of engineers to create a finish product. He is the face of Apple and usher Apple products to the world.

This is what CEO do. They guide the company. Without Steve Jobs, we may not have our tablet, portable music devices like iShuffle/iPods, or even have iTunes (I believe that really usher the whole 99 cent music) We probably eventually WILL get these products without Steve Jobs, but it would have been later.


#43

Espy

Espy

Chibibar said:
It is interesting to see the haters out there on the web.
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You know, I really think that the majority if these people are trolling. They just want to stir up shit by saying asshole stuff because they like to stir shit, and thats the only reason. Web anonymity, etc. That isn't discounting the "fanboy" groups who perch on both sides of issues/companies/etc and just want to attack anything that isn't their "thing", but I just don't think the majority care that much, I think they just want to be assholes because they can.


#44

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Sidenote: The thread prefix title for this one is fantastic.


#45

Espy

Espy

Shegokigo said:
Sidenote: The thread prefix title for this one is fantastic.
Click to expand...
Right?


#46

fade

fade

On the opposite side, it is kind of annoying how major news outlets are making it look like he invented all the stuff that Apple put out. Credit him for what he did: making you want to buy it, which is quite the accomplishment in and of itself.


#47

blotsfan

blotsfan

XKCD has a good tribute comic.



Alt text: There's always the hope that if you sit and watch for long enough, the beachball will vanish and the thing it interrupted will return.


#48

GasBandit

GasBandit



#49

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

:rofl: amazing find!


#50



Chibibar

That is epic!!!


#51



Chibibar

Amorous Eyes said:
I want to envision hordes and hordes of Apple-fanbois and grrls dressed in jeans and black turtlenecks making that cult's picketing damn near impossible.
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Oh god. Two cults collide. (I call WBC a cult cause to me they are one) Rabid fanboi vs WBC round 1.


#52

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Seconded, Ame.

It seems that the news of his passing are taken pretty hard. One of my friends with whom I talk and game almost daily was too saddened by the news to talk today...


#53



Chibibar

North_Ranger said:
Seconded, Ame.

It seems that the news of his passing are taken pretty hard. One of my friends with whom I talk and game almost daily was too saddened by the news to talk today...
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Well, whether people don't want to admit it or not, Steve Jobs guided a company to create really innovative products in the last couple of years. They are sold in the millions and become a common household item. Sure there are haters, but millions upon millions of iPhones, iPods, iShuffles, and iPads sold around the world is insane. Yes there are alternative, but a lot of people have been touched by Steve Jobs' innovation one form or another.

It is a tough role to fill, but I feel that Steve Jobs being Steve Jobs carefully chosen his successor like everything else he did.


#54



Overflight

Espy said:
Right?
Click to expand...
Totally awesome.


#55

GasBandit

GasBandit

Amorous Eyes said:
What I don't understand is how people who did not know him at all are that much affected by it.
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Top right.



#56



Chibibar

Amorous Eyes said:
See, I can understand being sad about someone's passing, or making it you more contemplative of your own mortality, but this man was a) just a man, and b) had somewhat of a celebrity status, and if you adhere to that philosophy c) a bit of a dick. What I don't understand is how people who did not know him at all are that much affected by it.
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I think it has to do how that person effect them. Some people have their heros, idol, or whatever you may call it, guiding their personal lives. Some people are devastated by fictional character dying.


#57

GasBandit

GasBandit

Amorous Eyes said:
On top of my head, I've had two of my 'heroes' die during my lifetime. I was still able to play a video game after the news.
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Generally, when North Ranger talks of "friends with whom I game," I think he usually means P&P. But maybe not here, who knows. And I could kinda see it being the case that if somebody's a little bummed out they might not feel like LARPing it up at the D&D session.

But yeah, even with all that, clearly NR's friend is way overreacting.. I mean, not able to bring themselves to even TALK?


#58



Chibibar

Amorous Eyes said:
On top of my head, I've had two of my 'heroes' die during my lifetime. I was still able to play a video game after the news. And I can certainly be devastated over a fictional character dying (overemotional + hormones = cry at least once a day, even if it's about cooked food that came out kinda off) but that doesn't stop me from continuing to live my life.

Being guided by someone else is not living. In fact, to aptly RE-quote Steve Jobs here:
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Yea. I am just saying that not everyone is strong. Humans are emotional lots. Sometimes logic doesn't dictate their actions. If that was the case, we won't have many stupid asses around the world ;)

Each person deal with death differently which can include the type of death. (Personal level, professional level, or superficial level)
this may sound crude (but the example fits)
What if Jesus was alive today and died? To many, they will probably be heart broken and can't operate. To me? he is just a guy who pass away, while I am sad by the death, I will continue to operate normally with my daily live.

So some fanatic cult, Steve Jobs is their idol. His death may crush their dreams, but to us, we are sad by his passing and his leadership with Apple, but not going to break down.

I'm sure there is someone on the superficial level that may effect us (superficial in my definition would be people don't relate to us directly) profoundly.


#59

CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

Is it too soon for a "dey took er jobs!" joke?


#60

GasBandit

GasBandit

CrimsonSoul said:
Is it too soon for a "dey took er jobs!" joke?
Click to expand...
Not if you like memebase, they've been doing that since yesterday.

Also, got this one on my google reader recommended items:

Steve Jobs Succumbs to Alternative Medicine

from Skepticblog by Brian Dunning

100+ people liked this

I’m sad that today I’m adding a slide to one of my live presentations, adding Steve Jobs to the list of famous people who died treating terminal diseases with woo rather than with medicine.

Seven or eight years ago, the news broke that Steve Jobs had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, but considering it a private matter, he delayed in informing Apple’s board, and Apple’s board delayed in informing the shareholders. So what. The only delay that really mattered was that Steve, it turned out, had been treating his pancreatic cancer with a special diet and other alternative therapies, prescribed by his naturopath.

Most pancreatic cancers are aggressive and always terminal, but Steve was lucky (if you can call it that) and had a rare form called an islet cell neuroendocrine tumor, which is actually quite treatable with excellent survival rates — if caught soon enough. The median survival is about a decade, but it depends on how soon it’s removed surgically. Steve caught his very early, and should have expected to survive much longer than a decade. Unfortunately Steve relied on a naturopathic diet instead of early surgery. There is no evidence that diet has any effect on islet cell carcinoma. As he dieted for nine months, the tumor progressed, and took him from the high end to the low end of the survival rate.


Eventually it became clear to all involved that his alternative therapy wasn’t working, and from then on, by all accounts, Steve aggressively threw money at the best that medical science could offer. But it was too late. He had a Whipple procedure. He had a liver transplant. And then he died, all too young.

My whole family loves Apple devices. Steve made our lives better, and I think I can say that pragmatically and without any Apple heroin in my veins. Note only that, he created my profession.
His lifelong friend Bill Gates tweeted:

For those of us lucky enough to get to work with Steve, it’s been an insanely great honor. I will miss Steve immensely. b-gat.es/qHXDsU​

I saw another tweet today from @DamonLindelof that I thought was beautifully worded:

Steve Jobs. On behalf of every dreamer sitting in his or her garage who is crazy enough to try to change the world, you will be missed.​

We can’t say for sure that Steve would still be alive and making lives better were it not for the alternative therapy, but the statistics suggest it very strongly. If you insist on unproven therapies, fine; but also try the proven ones. Nobody likes to either write or read a post such as this one.
Click to expand...


#61



Chibibar

Well to be fair, some alternative medicine work and some didn't.

With the money he had, he should have seek a 2nd opinion (I personally believe in Chinese medicine but I would seek 2nd opinion also much to my parents' dismay)


#62

MindDetective

MindDetective

I want to like the message but not the sad story of alternative medicine, GB. I did not know about that any of that. :-\


#63

Mathias

Mathias

Chibibar said:
I think it has to do how that person effect them. Some people have their heros, idol, or whatever you may call it, guiding their personal lives. Some people are devastated by fictional character dying.
Click to expand...
If Steve Jobs is your hero/idol, you need to reevaluate your life.


#64



Chibibar

Mathias said:
If Steve Jobs is your hero/idol, you need to reevaluate your life.
Click to expand...
He is not my hero/idol :) I am not the one breaking down here.

I'm just saying that regardless of X person. We each treat a death differently depending on that person and how it effect you.

(note: I'm actually a pretty "cold" person by my standard. I am sadden to lose a long time friend of the family who I consider my aunt. I preside over her funeral, but I hardly think of her anymore. I hardly think of anyone who died in my life which include my father from leukemia (my biological father) I am sad on the moment, but then I move on and continue to live life to the fullest. I do miss them once in a while, but never to a point where I can't operate or break down in tears)


#65

fade

fade

Someone doesn't have to be a hero to impress you with what they did with their lives enough to think the world is a little worse without them. Jobs may have been had some issues in "real life", but his vision was in recognizing what it was out of the crop of tech products that needed to be developed and pushed. He also gave us products that weren't crap. That's the part mac-haters never seem to understand. You may outspec my macbook pro, but it's built like a tank and looks good, and it just works. Same with the OS. I have converted so many mac haters at talks because I plug a projector in, and lo and behold, it projects. That's less impressive lately, but it worked in 2002, too. That actually is the heart of his effect on the world. Even though you may not like Apple products (and you could say they're not the best for whatever reason), I'll bet the brand you use was heavily influenced. Even if apple didn't invent the mouse or the windowed UI, it made them popular. Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, but it made it a phenomenon. Apple didn't invent the smartphone, but it made them sell because Jobs insisted on the real life fit. Not because people fawn over Jobs or Apple. I fawn over my Apple because it's good, not the other way around, and I detest being accused of the opposite.


#66



Chibibar

fade said:
Someone doesn't have to be a hero to impress you with what they did with their lives enough to think the world is a little worse without them. Jobs may have been had some issues in "real life", but his vision was in recognizing what it was out of the crop of tech products that needed to be developed and pushed. He also gave us products that weren't crap. That's the part mac-haters never seem to understand. You may outspec my macbook pro, but it's built like a tank and looks good, and it just works. Same with the OS. I have converted so many mac haters at talks because I plug a projector in, and lo and behold, it projects. That's less impressive lately, but it worked in 2002, too. That actually is the heart of his effect on the world. Even though you may not like Apple products (and you could say they're not the best for whatever reason), I'll bet the brand you use was heavily influenced. Even if apple didn't invent the mouse or the windowed UI, it made them popular. Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, but it made it a phenomenon. Apple didn't invent the smartphone, but it made them sell because Jobs insisted on the real life fit. Not because people fawn over Jobs or Apple. I fawn over my Apple because it's good, not the other way around, and I detest being accused of the opposite.
Click to expand...
I agree. From an IT perspective, I like it when things work. I do love my iPhone and my iPad cause it is easier to use (and lighter) I DO have a nice laptop (work provided) and a PC for my gaming needs. I was raised by PC with little mac influence, but I am not brand advocate.

If you ask me for a product for a specific job, I may tell you a product you may not usually use or the brand you may not use. It different from situation to situation.


#67

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Did she really counter with "UMADBRO?" cause gawd damn that makes it 50x more hilarious.


#68

fade

fade

Wait, if what Jobs did was really God's doing, doesn't that also include everything else? Or did god just select the iPhone specifically?


#69

GasBandit

GasBandit

"God" created the iPhone? Even putting that aside... the money Phelps paid for it went to Steve Jobs so he could continue to "teach sin."


#70

Mathias

Mathias

fade said:
Someone doesn't have to be a hero to impress you with what they did with their lives enough to think the world is a little worse without them. Jobs may have been had some issues in "real life", but his vision was in recognizing what it was out of the crop of tech products that needed to be developed and pushed. He also gave us products that weren't crap. That's the part mac-haters never seem to understand. You may outspec my macbook pro, but it's built like a tank and looks good, and it just works. Same with the OS. I have converted so many mac haters at talks because I plug a projector in, and lo and behold, it projects. That's less impressive lately, but it worked in 2002, too. That actually is the heart of his effect on the world. Even though you may not like Apple products (and you could say they're not the best for whatever reason), I'll bet the brand you use was heavily influenced. Even if apple didn't invent the mouse or the windowed UI, it made them popular. Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, but it made it a phenomenon. Apple didn't invent the smartphone, but it made them sell because Jobs insisted on the real life fit. Not because people fawn over Jobs or Apple. I fawn over my Apple because it's good, not the other way around, and I detest being accused of the opposite.
Click to expand...
I'm actually more of a primitivist, and feel the world could do without massive consumer crap.


#71

fade

fade

I tend to agree, actually. I tend to lump a lot more than electronics into that category, too. I used to be really strongly against owning stuff. Until I got married everything I owned fit in my 1985 Ford Escort. All that being said, it doesn't change the level of influence he had.


#72

PatrThom

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
We can’t say for sure that Steve would still be alive and making lives better were it not for the alternative therapy, but the statistics suggest it very strongly. If you insist on unproven therapies, fine; but also try the proven ones. Nobody likes to either write or read a post such as this one.
Click to expand...
Gosh. I haven't heard this sort of talk since May 16, 1990.

--Patrick


#73

Mathias

Mathias

Guys even with advanced medical treatment, Pancreatic cancer has a very low survivability 5 years after diagnosis. Jobs made it pretty damn far, and he had a shit ton of resources and money to treat it. That's actually pretty scary if you think of it. If you're an average Joe diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, you essentially are going to die.


#74

Dei

Dei

He actually had a rare form of cancer that is no where near as bad as the normal types, and would have probably lived longer if he didn't wait 9 months to get surgery.


#75

Covar

Covar

Dei said:
He actually had a rare form of cancer that is no where near as bad as the normal types, and would have probably lived longer if he didn't wait 9 months to get surgery.
Click to expand...
Well it's decided then, bastard deserved it. Okay guys we can go home now!


#76



makare

I'm just hoping I never have to make those decisions. So many what-ifs would drive me crazy.


#77

Chippy

Chippy

Steve Jobs was a dick.


#78



Biannoshufu

Chippy said:
Steve Jobs was a dick.
Click to expand...
And you're a much classier person, no doubt.


#79

Bones

Bones

every time you two interact all I hear is "welcome back to the stage of history!"


#80

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Everytime I see B reply to Chip I hear the GGX

DESTROYED

chime.


#81

Bones

Bones

in my defense I imagine B could kick just about anyone's ass, also I don't know why but I liked her from day one, we never really interacted or anything, she just seems even keeled LOL. :D


#82

Krisken

Krisken

Anyways, sad to see Jobs go. He helped us get where we are today.


#83

Tress

Tress

Krisken said:
Anyways, sad to see Jobs go. He helped us get where we are today.
Click to expand...
He caused the global recession? Wow, he really was a dick!


#84

Necronic

Necronic

Tress said:
He caused the global recession? Wow, he really was a dick!
Click to expand...
And global warming.


#85

Jay

Jay

http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs


#86

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Basically, that shit. I'm not gonna say I'm glad he's dead but I sure as hell am not gonna be too broken up over it.


#87

Mathias

Mathias

Necronic said:
And global warming.
Click to expand...
Don't forget the Chinese sweat shops.


#88

strawman

strawman

Hey, if it weren't for Apple, Foxcon would never have installed that anti-suicide netting on the sides of their buildings.

So... you know... that's good.


#89

Terrik

Terrik

Hey, yeah! There's always a bright side.


#90

Chippy

Chippy

Biannoshufu said:
And you're a much classier person, no doubt.
Click to expand...


#91



makare

I hear he also freed we monkeys.


#92

Necronic

Necronic

Mathias said:
Don't forget the Chinese sweat shops.
Click to expand...
Yakov Smirnov say: "in Apple Sweatshop, hardrive slaves you!"


#93

DarkAudit

DarkAudit

Frankie Williamson said:
Basically, that shit. I'm not gonna say I'm glad he's dead but I sure as hell am not gonna be too broken up over it.
Click to expand...
Richard Stallman took care of that for you.

That's the voice of the FOSS movement. That's the guy that put the stick up the stick up the stick up Debian's butt so they can give us crap like IceWeasel. Seriously?

Ya know what, Dick? Fuck FOSS. Double fuck you. Apple's stuff just works. Windows' stuff just works. This is why Linux will never go beyond the IT department and hipsters.

/rant


#94

Sara_2814

Sara_2814

DarkAudit said:
Richard Stallman took care of that for you.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't that be GNU/Richard Stallman?

Yep, Steve Jobs is totally an evil bastard for making computers that are easy and accessible for ordinary people! It's a good thing he's dead! :rolleyes:


#95



Chibibar

Jay said:
http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs
Click to expand...
Who DOESN'T take advantage of Chinese sweatshop? A lot of companies setup factory in China because of lack of regulation, safety, and people's welfare. This is why the products are cheaper. Can you imagine the cost if it was made in the U.S.? Sure we turn a "blind eye" when it comes to stuff we want, but at the end of the day, a lot of products we use today are from Asian countries.

There is no doubt that Steve Jobs was a dictator in his company, but it is his method that brought Apple to household names today.

My wife and I just had this conversation this morning on the way to work. Steve Jobs took a product and bring it to next evolution of it. Sony Walkman was the big name and there was some early version of "iPod" that was like 16MB or something until iPod came out and took the world by storm. Same with phones and later iPads.
Sometimes you have to have an iron fist control to really push people to the next level.


#96

Chippy

Chippy

So...Chibi's a fascist.


#97

Jay

Jay

Fuck the kids! /cracks whip

APPPPLEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!


#98

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

How do they elongate a silent letter or the "P" in that word?


#99



Chibibar

Chippy said:
So...Chibi's a fascist.
Click to expand...
Possible :) more of a realist.
People start business to make money. It is a base line really. Sure they can make a cool product or provide excellent service, but at the end of the day, it is all about the profit margin.
Different countries have different rules on how to run a business. The U.S. have rules in place for safety of their worker. Physically in terms of safety standards in the work place. Emotionally/psychologically in terms of personal protection from discrimination and harassment (Labor laws) . Financially in terms of minimal wages and basic rights. Other countries (like China) not so much

It is interesting that it is CHEAPER to ship the raw materials to China, produce it, and ship it BACK and still be CHEAPER than to produce the whole thing at home (in the U.S.)


#100

Espy

Espy

Are there really people naive enough to think that they don't touch stuff made in chinese workshops?

Here's who Foxconn makes stuff for:

So... have fun if anyone wants to try and play high and mighty.


#101



Chibibar

Espy said:
Are there really people naive enough to think that they don't touch stuff made in chinese workshops?

Here's who Foxconn makes stuff for:

So... have fun if anyone wants to try and play high and mighty.
Click to expand...
Sadly, there ARE people who think that. Some people just can't grasp that we are now in global economy. There is no "U.S. only" to survive in this business world, you have to work with other countries to increase your profit margin.

China tried that YEARS ago (being self contain) and it was hurting them. By opening trade route again, China is now a major economic force.


#102

Espy

Espy

Chibibar said:
Sadly, there ARE people who think that. Some people just can't grasp that we are now in global economy.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm always shocked at the "smart" people who think that nothing they buy is touched by this.


#103

Chippy

Chippy

Chibibar said:
Possible :) more of a realist.
People start business to make money. It is a base line really. Sure they can make a cool product or provide excellent service, but at the end of the day, it is all about the profit margin.
Different countries have different rules on how to run a business. The U.S. have rules in place for safety of their worker. Physically in terms of safety standards in the work place. Emotionally/psychologically in terms of personal protection from discrimination and harassment (Labor laws) . Financially in terms of minimal wages and basic rights. Other countries (like China) not so much

It is interesting that it is CHEAPER to ship the raw materials to China, produce it, and ship it BACK and still be CHEAPER than to produce the whole thing at home (in the U.S.)
Click to expand...
A) "Realist" is textbook cynic slang for fascist.

B) It's great that Job's techniques made him a savvy businessman. But he still exploited sweatshops and cut a shit ton of charity programs to become one. Still a dick.


#104



Chibibar

Chippy said:
A) "Realist" is textbook cynic slang for fascist.

B) It's great that Job's techniques made him a savvy businessman. But he still exploited sweatshops and cut a shit ton of charity programs to become one. Still a dick.
Click to expand...
Well, then you might as well call every capitalist a dick then cause I can assure you that most of them use China in one form or another (especially electronic since they control 90% of rare earth materials market)

Also, if you really feel that way, then you might want to consider what you are buying. Check from raw materials to finish products. Not many products are purely made in a single location anymore.


#105

Espy

Espy

Chibi, you've just been called a "fascist" twice in one thread.

I think you have won the internet my friend.


#106



Chibibar

Espy said:
Chibi, you've just been called a "fascist" twice in one thread.

I think you have won the internet my friend.
Click to expand...
Woo. I always want my own internet ;)


#107

Espy

Espy

Well you got it you fascist nazi loving commie!


#108

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Chibibar said:
Well, then you might as well call every capitalist a dick then cause I can assure you that most of them use China in one form or another (especially electronic since they control 90% of rare earth materials market)

Also, if you really feel that way, then you might want to consider what you are buying. Check from raw materials to finish products. Not many products are purely made in a single location anymore.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much what people call big capitalists. Dicks. They are dicks. There are very few that seem to elicit such admiration that people seem to have for Jobs.


#109



Biannoshufu

AH hahahaha perfect.


#110

BananaHands

BananaHands

Bill Gates is a dick.


#111

Chippy

Chippy

Chibibar said:
Well, then you might as well call every capitalist a dick-
Click to expand...
Done.

And I'm not one of those "Only buy American" peeps either. ;)

You're missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm not saying "Don't support _____ because they use China!" I'm saying he's a dick. I support dicks all the time. ( :unibrow: ) As B mentioned earlier, I AM a dick. So when I die don't treat me as this God. Treat me like a dick.

...Dick.


#112

Espy

Espy

You're a straight shooter son. I like that.


#113

GasBandit

GasBandit

"Dick" is a relative term in this case. The point is, if everyone is a dick, then is anyone really a dick? Dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick.



#114

Chippy

Chippy

Teehee


#115

BananaHands

BananaHands

GasBandit said:
"Dick" is a relative term in this case. The point is, if everyone is a dick, then is anyone really a dick? Dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick.
Click to expand...


#116



Chibibar

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57319623-37/new-yorker-on-steve-jobs-more-tweaker-than-inventor/

Instead of making a new thread ;) (plus it kinda relates)
While the article said Steve Jobs is more of a tweaker than inventor, that is probably true. There are not many things that you could "invent" (well there are things like force field and food replicator) but most of the stuff are build upon from previous technology. Make things easier to use.

Maybe if Bill Gates DID try to perfect Windows more (i.e. perfectionist) it might be easier to use product and sell more perhaps and Mr Gates can use even more money for the forces of good.


#117

GasBandit

GasBandit

Chibibar said:
Maybe if Bill Gates DID try to perfect Windows more (i.e. perfectionist) it might be easier to use product and sell more perhaps and Mr Gates can use even more money for the forces of good.
Click to expand...
With 86% of the market share, I don't think "maybe it'd sell more" is too much of a valid criticism.


#118



Chibibar

GasBandit said:
With 86% of the market share, I don't think "maybe it'd sell more" is too much of a valid criticism.
Click to expand...
You got a point, but people will be happier with his product? ;)


#119

strawman

strawman

In contrast, Jobs' vision, brilliant and perfect as it was, was narrow.
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To a degree he has a point. Every "brilliant" person has, or can be attributed to have, a "Big huge unobtainable goal"

Jobs wants to revolutionize how people use computers.
Google wants to revolutionize how people find information.
Gates wants to eradicate malaria. (which kills nearly 1 million people per year - about half as many as aids kills)

Jobs and Google are fixing first world problems - these will improve the lives of a small percentage of the world population, and arguably won't save many lives.

Gates is fixing a second and third world problem, and should it be realized will be saving the lives of nearly a million people each year.

I don't think the two can be compared readily.

But if we were to compare them - Gates already changed the world with Windows. Been there, done that, and he found a new goal. Steve was still trying to change the world once by the time he died. He could be said to have revolutionized, perhaps, music, in some small way with the iPod, but he didn't change the industry, nevermind the lives of all the first-worlders, nevermind the whole world. Windows was the lucky kid in hte brawl of the early OS/abstraction systems, and it won, and not only changed the computing industry, but it could be argued transformed how people live and work in the first world, and how easily they can help the second and third world.

Of course, the terms "first/second/third world" are not terribly useful, but hopefully the point is clear.

Steve did a lot of awesome work. He probably wasn't necessarily chasing Gates, nor could it be said that gates "won" in any sense, but I don't think you can compare the impact the two have left on the world. Maybe the impact on the personal computer industry, but even that's going to be difficult without honestly saying that gates did more, and did better in total. Jobs wasn't after these things though, and wasn't competing for them - so can you say he lost in a game he wasn't really playing?

If Steve had lived to see his vision of a world without "computers" and everyone carrying an apple phone or ipad, beating out android, etc, then one might be able to claim that he compares favorably against gates in terms of changing the first world.

But he still wouldn't have been credited with saving millions of lives by eradicating a major disease - assuming the gates foundation succeeds.

I think, in fact, that he was poised to lose to android. He was so focused on beauty and usability - a lofty and good goal, to be sure - that he couldn't compete on total features. He lost to windows even though windows was ugly and non-usable. Largely because it was cheaper, commoditized, and open.

By comparison, Jobs sought to control everything, and as can be seen by how each and every app is reviewed, is continuing that trend.

Yes, as a result android is uglier, crashes more frequently, etc - just as windows was back in the day.

But guess who won that war?

If apple continues to follow job's playbook, the phone war is theirs to lose.

There is a market for beauty, there will always be a market for usability, but those markets will necessarily be smaller than the quick-to-market, cheap, and usable commoditized equipment others produce.


#120



Chibibar

stienman: I like that :) I agree with you. Now of course in time, maybe it is possible to have a beautiful and easy to use item and CHEAP! ;)


#121

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

When I say Jobs changed my life, I don't mean the iPhone or iPod, but the Apple ][e in every classroom that could use one when I was a kid. THAT changed the world.

Gates is just trying to fix his image after 30 years of being Ebenezer Scrooge... Gates also has the chance to live out his retirement and spend his pinched millions and billions to affect the third world's lives. It is a grand gesture. But it is an opportunity Jobs did not receive do to his untimely death.


#122

MindDetective

MindDetective

sixpackshaker said:
Gates is just trying to fix his image after 30 years of being Ebenezer Scrooge... Gates also has the chance to live out his retirement and spend his pinched millions and billions to affect the third world's lives. It is a grand gesture. But it is an opportunity Jobs did not receive do to his untimely death.
Click to expand...
Really??? :confused:


#123

strawman

strawman

While I don't mean to belittle your experience, there is a distinct difference between your world being changed, and someone changing the world.

I too learned a lot from the apple II, and that PC was a game changer for many.

But to say that gates is merely trying to fix his image is interesting. Do you know the man? What I've read doesn't suggest that he cares what people think about him. Life, to him, is about the challenge.

But it seems your hate is based on personal feelings, which I can't begrudge. There are many people who feel that Gates personally wronged them.


#124

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

stienman said:
But guess who won that war?
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That one may depend on how you count.... :p


#125

PatrThom

PatrThom

I think Gates did experience some sort of change. I know many people nagged him about how having that kind of wealth imparted some sort of responsibility to make the world a better place. Maybe he took it to heart.

--Patrick


#126

CrimsonSoul

CrimsonSoul

Steve Jobs thread? That was so last month.


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