L4D 2 - Nov 17

[Chibibar]

No cares for corporate responsibility? This is why things are going to hell in a handbasket. Everyone expects everyone else to lie.

haven't been in the corporate world much huh?

I can't say much since I got L4D on last sale (I think it was like 1.5 months ago?) so I still enjoy the game, but lately I play a lot of Killing floor more since tons of people covert over cool maps from UT:KF maps.

 

[figmentPez]

haven't been in the corporate world much huh?

Oh, I know that's the way things have increasingly become, but I'm saying that's not the way things should be. Valve has been much better about such things than other companies... up until this debacle.

 

[Gadzooks]

$50 now... $50 next year... oh hey, that strategy of releasing all the new content one year later worked... lets keep doing it.

Again, i point to how people are caring less and less about the latest Madden or whatever...

 

[ElJuski]

No cares for corporate responsibility? This is why things are going to hell in a handbasket. Everyone expects everyone else to lie.

Yeah, when it actually matters. Banks, car companies, Wal-Mart...sure. But a video game company? I really don't give a shit. Valve isn't bringing forth the fall of capitalist society with it's "irresponsibility". But we can keep on tilting at windmills with a lance of nerd rage, too.

 

[Chippy]

haven't been in the corporate world much huh?

Oh, I know that's the way things have increasingly become, but I'm saying that's not the way things should be. Valve has been much better about such things than other companies... up until this debacle.

But in the end, is it that big of deal?

 

[figmentPez]

But in the end, is it that big of deal?

Well, yes and no. It's not a life altering thing, but then again, it's not a life altering thing if I get bad service at a restaurant, and they never bring the side dishes I ordered with my entree. However, if a restaurant did that, I would have every right to complain, and if managment didn't make right, I'd be entirely justified in not going back and in telling others about the bad service I recieved. It doesn't have to be a life or death thing, or even a quality of life thing for it to be important. Good service should be rewarded, weather it's at a restaurant, at a bank, from a public servant, or from a video game company. Bad service, and broken promises, should be noticed, and people should be called out for not behaving as they should. Consumers shouldn't stand for bad service, regardless of what industry is serving them.

 

[AshburnerX]

Again, i point to how people are caring less and less about the latest Madden or whatever...

But if you like football games, your going to keep fucking buying it every year because it's the only game in town. Monopolies are a bitch, aren't they?

 

[Hailey Knight]

No cares for corporate responsibility?

How many people who aren't froth-at-the-mouth Valve followers even knew about all that extra shit? So maybe they're deepest fans feel betrayed... those 7,358 people had their hearts broken because rather than getting additional free content, as with TF2, they would need to buy a new game to get new content.

Or they could just not bother.

If you enjoy Left 4 Dead, and you want more, then getting Left 4 Dead 2 is a no-brainer. If you only enjoyed L4D because there was the prospect of its expansion, then... what the hell are you playing for? That's like the people who only play Team Fortress 2 for a week or so, when new content comes up, and then they don't play again for 2 months.

L4D isn't going to go away. L4D2 becomes the new option. Don't buy it if you're disatisfied--OR, if you wonder if Valve will do all the free content, user-created content support and don't want to take the risk, wait to buy it until you see that stuff come out. Don't just buy it on a future possibility. I bought L4D to play what it is, and I have gotten what it is for many months, enjoyably. The only thing I expected for nothing more were Versus versions of Death Toll and Dead Air.

I will be happy to buy Left 4 Dead 2, because I am so damn pleased with L4D. And I continue to be.

 

[figmentPez]

If you enjoy Left 4 Dead, and you want more, then getting Left 4 Dead 2 is a no-brainer. If you only enjoyed L4D because there was the prospect of its expansion, then... what the * are you playing for?

It's not about enjoyment, or about worth for the money spent. If I go to the aforementioned restaurant, I don't care if I really loved my entree, if I didn't get my side dish that was promised, it's bad service. Now, some people may put up with really lousy service to get good food, but I'm not one of them. The way I'm treated by a company matters to me, and I think it should matter to everyone. I like L4D, a lot. I happily bought it for just what it was, and then probably would bought L4D2 for what it will be, except for the promises made about L4D. If Valve hadn't said a word about support for the game, I wouldn't be upset. But since they did say they were going to do something, but did not, I think it's right to be upset about that.

Valve has done a lot of good things for the game industry and for gamers. I don't think it was unreasonable to expect them to follow through on promises. I don't think it's right that companies aren't held responsible for what they say. Yes, I could wait for Valve to come through on promises before I buy a game, but I'd much rather be able to order off the menu and expect that my favorite restaurant will deliver what they said.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Well, that's not happening, so you're left either to buy or not to buy.

But in the six months you'll have before it comes out to consider it, and then perhaps whatever time after when the game really doesn't matter anyway, consider if, for all that history of player support and kept promises, a change of plan that breaks a promise most people weren't aware of makes them that deserving of your ire.

 

[AshburnerX]

I want to see some more about the weaponry before I decide to pick it up. I want to see some new long range weapon types or at least some variable models before I even consider buying LFD2.

 

[Gryfter]

 

[JONJONAUG]

I find this whole shitstorm hilarious, really.

On one hand, Valve did promise more campaigns and support for fan content along with expanding the game. They ended up adding in a new gameplay mode, really balanced out the gameplay, and added in two versus campaigns (although these may have been expected in the first place) that weren't at the time of release. I can see how people may have expected more.

On the other hand, L4D 2 is going to have more new content then the entirety of L4D 1 with all the updates it currently has. Expecting Valve not to charge full price for what is essentially a full sequel with new characters, enemies, features, five new campaigns, and a new gameplay mode is insane.

 

[Troll]

I find this whole shitstorm hilarious, really.

On one hand, Valve did promise more campaigns and support for fan content along with expanding the game. They ended up adding in a new gameplay mode, really balanced out the gameplay, and added in two versus campaigns (although these may have been expected in the first place) that weren't at the time of release. I can see how people may have expected more.

On the other hand, L4D 2 is going to have more new content then the entirety of L4D 1 with all the updates it currently has. Expecting Valve not to charge full price for what is essentially a full sequel with new characters, enemies, features, five new campaigns, and a new gameplay mode is insane.

Yup. I think the best idea was suggested already in this thread: give people who bought L4D a discount. If they charge $50 for L4D 2, then current owners should only pay $25 or something. The numbers aren't exact, but I think the idea is sound.

 

[bhamv2]

I find this whole shitstorm hilarious, really.

On one hand, Valve did promise more campaigns and support for fan content along with expanding the game. They ended up adding in a new gameplay mode, really balanced out the gameplay, and added in two versus campaigns (although these may have been expected in the first place) that weren't at the time of release. I can see how people may have expected more.

On the other hand, L4D 2 is going to have more new content then the entirety of L4D 1 with all the updates it currently has. Expecting Valve not to charge full price for what is essentially a full sequel with new characters, enemies, features, five new campaigns, and a new gameplay mode is insane.

Yup. I think the best idea was suggested already in this thread: give people who bought L4D a discount. If they charge $50 for L4D 2, then current owners should only pay $25 or something. The numbers aren't exact, but I think the idea is sound.

Plus it'll reduce the inevitable "boycott" voices.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Many of whom will buy it anyway. Talk is easy; we'll see who does and doesn't buy the game in November.

 

[Chibibar]

I can assure you I will probably end up buying it or my wife will buy it for me.

 

[elph]

I think it'll all depend on how things pan out. If there is no discount for previous L4D people (which I really doubt there will be), I'll just wait until it goes on sale through Steam.

I'll just hope I get the right sides with my meal this time around.

 

[Chibibar]

I think it'll all depend on how things pan out. If there is no discount for previous L4D people (which I really doubt there will be), I'll just wait until it goes on sale through Steam.

I'll just hope I get the right sides with my meal this time around.

I might do that also... not sure I did wait until L4D to go on sale. I figure after a couple of months if they don't get the figures they want, the item will go on sale on steam

 

[elph]

I think it'll all depend on how things pan out. If there is no discount for previous L4D people (which I really doubt there will be), I'll just wait until it goes on sale through Steam.

I'll just hope I get the right sides with my meal this time around.

I might do that also... not sure I did wait until L4D to go on sale. I figure after a couple of months if they don't get the figures they want, the item will go on sale on steam

Well, they did a sale on Feb 13th for 50% off. It was the first time it went on sale (at least that I remember) and it hadn't been out that long (3 or 4 months I think).

Besides, I'm also hoping that the other campaigns aren't during the day time, 1 or 2 is cool. At the LAN party, we were discussing how it would be neat to have a day time campaign, but I think we all feel more tension at night. It's somewhat annoying in Vs mode when the AI survivors can spot you when the players just can't.

 

[AshburnerX]

Besides, I'm also hoping that the other campaigns aren't during the day time, 1 or 2 is cool. At the LAN party, we were discussing how it would be neat to have a day time campaign, but I think we all feel more tension at night. It's somewhat annoying in Vs mode when the AI survivors can spot you when the players just can't.

Daytime campaigns can work as long as there is some other source of suspense involved. Using the infamous shopping mall cliche for instance... you start out the mission on the roof of a nearby Gun Store and immediately you can see hundreds of infected all around the sides of the building, trying to get in. You then need to find some means to make the jump to the mall's roof, as falling from the roof would be an assured death at the Horde beneath you.

Once you make it across, you descend down the roof access stairs and have to work your way through the darkened Mall, with only brief patches of sunlight coming from open skylights and your flashlights to guide you. Expect lots of Smokers and Hunters to attack you from the Skylights, making each bright spot a potential portal of death.

Finally you make it to the underground parking lot and to an unfueled bus. Somebody needs to operate the pump while large waves of Infected come at you. Once you get the bus fueled, you jump on board and have to defend it from Tanks and Boomers as it makes it's way to the final safe location, a local military base. Failing to protect it doesn't mean you failed the mission, it just means you have to run the remainder of the way ON FOOT while the Infected grow ever near to your location.

Once you make it to the base, cue the victory music and maybe have a tank or something come out to fight off the Horde that's just arrived. It's basically a modified recreation of the newer Day of the Dead... only you go to a military base instead of a marina. More importantly, it's a daytime campaign that works.

 

[figmentPez]

I find this whole shitstorm hilarious, really.

On one hand, Valve did promise more campaigns and support for fan content along with expanding the game. They ended up adding in a new gameplay mode, really balanced out the gameplay, and added in two versus campaigns (although these may have been expected in the first place) that weren't at the time of release. I can see how people may have expected more.

On the other hand, L4D 2 is going to have more new content then the entirety of L4D 1 with all the updates it currently has. Expecting Valve not to charge full price for what is essentially a full sequel with new characters, enemies, features, five new campaigns, and a new gameplay mode is insane.

It doesn't have to be either L4D support or L4D2, Valve could have released the SDK on time (it was promised a few weeks after release, it's been 6 months. They, instead, started working on L4D2 right after release, while telling fans they were working on the SDK), released a mini-campaign or two (in interviews, they suggested new campaigns would be a couple of maps), plus some weapons for L4D and then put their full force behind L4D2. Not only that, but I don't think it's insane to expect much of what was in L4D2 to be released as extra content. Think of all the updates that TF2 has gotten, and it's just a a "$20" game. Valve has said repeatedly that the reason that they can provide so much new content for such a cheap game is that when they release new content, new sales are made. There is no reason to believe the exact same thing wouldn't happen with L4D. New content released, and sales go up. It may sound counter-intuitive that releasing free content could make more money than releasing a new game, but TF2 has proved that's not the case. TF2 was the #1 selling game on Steam this past week.

This is what Valve has had to say in the past about DLC:

"You buy the product, you get the content," Team Fortress 2 designer Robin Walker told us. "We make more money because more people buy it, not because we try and nickel-and-dime the same customers."

Valve's marketing director Doug Lombardi admitted the company had "pretty strong opinions" about how to handle post-release content. "Our philosophy there is, if you buy the product, we put more content out to keep the game interesting, we sell more products."

The only reason I can think that it might have been impossible to release all this new content for free would be if the Xbox 360, and Microsoft's limitations on DLC, meant it couldn't be done.

Well, they did a sale on Feb 13th for 50% off. It was the first time it went on sale (at least that I remember) and it hadn't been out that long (3 or 4 months I think).

Valve had a post-Christmas sale (day after Christmas until the end of the year, I think) where a lot of games were reduced. L4D was 25% off, that's when I bought my copy.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Well, they did a sale on Feb 13th for 50% off. It was the first time it went on sale (at least that I remember) and it hadn't been out that long (3 or 4 months I think).

Valve had a post-Christmas sale (day after Christmas until the end of the year, I think) where a lot of games were reduced. L4D was 25% off, that's when I bought my copy.

I loved that sale. Got Bioshock for $5.

 

[Twitch]

I'm still waiting for a response from Blizzard, I refuse to pay full price for a simple expansion pack, frozen throne my ass. :humph:

 

[AshburnerX]

I'm still waiting for a response from Blizzard, I refuse to pay full price for a simple expansion pack, frozen throne... my ass is frozen to it! SEND FOR HELP! :aaahhh:

I'm sorry... I couldn't help myself.

 

[figmentPez]

Gamespy has a Left 4 Dead 2 Preview

The major points:

New Special Infected:
The Spitter - lobs a glob of damaging spit at survivors, leaving a damaging puddle on the ground. Another Valve counter to shiva-stacking.

New Common Uncommon Infected (Valve needs a better name for this class):
Mud men - move around on all fours, and quickly. Making them hard to spot, especially in the water.
These new common infected will be level specific, which makes sense now that I think about it, so you won't see hazmat zombies in the swamp, or mud-men in the city.

New items:
Adrenaline (can be picked up instead of pills) - allows unlimited melee, and common infected can't slow you down
Ammo Pack (instead of a health kit) - no description in the article

The videos don't show much new, aside from the swamp and shanty town setting. You can catch a glimpse of the spitter's attack if you watch closely, but it's hard to make out.

 

[Jay]

Where do I pre-order this shit already? Gimmie a deal Valve!

 

[Hailey Knight]

Sounds awesome. Looking forward to it.

 

[Necronic]

This is an expansion, not a sequel. Thats all there is to say.

 

[Hailey Knight]

And your mother never loved you, while we're stating the obvious.

 

[Chibibar]

You know something interesting? Developers always have high hope for their games they are making. They have tons of ideas of what to put into the game, but it all boils down to the upper brass (their bosses) Every company is trying to make money. That is a given. When L4D2 hits the shelves, those will get bought up by fans REGARDLESS of the promises by the devs before. The devs are trying to shell out stuff for L4D but the upper brass wants "more profit" so will sell a new game (it is an expansion since it is all new places not really a sequel) Sure some of us might complain and bitch and moan, but it will take literally millions of customer to make Valve change their mind.

Now if Valve gives a discount to previous L4D owners... great.. if not.. I personally gonna wait for a sale before getting it (still play some L4D and other games so not in a rush)

 

[Nubs]

The first L4D was epic in my eyes, I can't wait for the second one to come out. just hoping you're right about new weapons/ lower price

 

[@Li3n]

Gamespy has a Left 4 Dead 2 Preview

The major points:

New Special Infected:
The Spitter - lobs a glob of damaging spit at survivors, leaving a damaging puddle on the ground. Another Valve counter to shiva-stacking.

New Common Uncommon Infected (Valve needs a better name for this class):
Mud men - move around on all fours, and quickly. Making them hard to spot, especially in the water.
These new common infected will be level specific, which makes sense now that I think about it, so you won't see hazmat zombies in the swamp, or mud-men in the city.

New items:
Adrenaline (can be picked up instead of pills) - allows unlimited melee, and common infected can't slow you down
Ammo Pack (instead of a health kit) - no description in the article

The videos don't show much new, aside from the swamp and shanty town setting. You can catch a glimpse of the spitter's attack if you watch closely, but it's hard to make out.

This would need at least a new graphic engine to actually make it a sequel... there are plenty of expansions out there that had way more content and where also stand-alone.

Plus, Valve said this: http://www.edge-online.com/features/val ... -expensive

New Common Uncommon Infected (Valve needs a better name for this class):

Hmmm... i heard them refered to as Uncommon Common by some Valve guys, not the other way around.

 

[figmentPez]

This would need at least a new graphic engine to actually make it a sequel... there are plenty of expansions out there that had way more content and where also stand-alone.

Well there are improvements being made to the engine. However, all I've heard so far is about increasing the gore in the game (infected show bones and organs when they're dismembered) it's not enough to make it a PC sequel. However, the bar for a console sequel isn't as high. I suspect that the biggest reason this game is L4D2, instead of L4D: Cajun Seasoning, is the Xbox 360 and Microsoft.

Plus, Valve said this: http://www.edge-online.com/features/val ... -expensive

Valve has said a lot of things that haven't been backed by their actions thus far. I'm still hoping they'll show a commitment to their customers over conforming to bad industry practices.

[quote:1lsr2gps]New Common Uncommon Infected (Valve needs a better name for this class):

Hmmm... i heard them refered to as Uncommon Common by some Valve guys, not the other way around.[/quote:1lsr2gps]

I could have gotten it backwards. I tend to reverse things a lot (numbers, word order, etc.) All the more reason for a better name.

 

[Covar]

L4D: Cajun Seasoning

winner right there.

L4D probably gets the most play in my 360. An absolutely fantastic game. I'm still not sure how I feel about L4D2 especially since I'll most likely have to pay $60 for it. For $40 I would not bitch about the lack of extras we were promised, but full price for extremely short (but replayable) games each year is a bit much.