L4D 2 - Nov 17

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E

elph

http://store.steampowered.com/news/2552/

Okay, this slightly annoys me, and by slightly I mean I'm near about ready to throw bricks at them.

L4D just recently came out (okay, it came out after TF2), but L4D is fairly limited. It's very repetitive. Granted, I like it in a LAN setting, but the online - sitting alone at home - does leave a bit to be desired.

This annoys me because they're practically rebuilding and adding to TF2 which you can now get for $20 on it's own, and has always been fairly inexpensive (Orange box) if you consider the larger packages. With each no class pack, we get new maps, new weapons, and now an even newer 'loot / item' system. But for L4D, we're all going to have to pony up another $50?

This is the one thing that annoys me the most about online FPS games. By the time you get a nice group of people interested in what there is, they're releasing a new flavor the next year and we start that adoption process all over again.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
That's my feelings exactly. TF2 is like Valve's little pet project, that get's all sorts of updates. Valve hasn't even made it easy to play fan maps on L4D and it's already getting a sequel? If Valve charges full price for L4D2 I'm not paying it, that's for sure.

EDIT: From Kotaku: Left 4 Dead 2 Features Melee, Deeper Coop

"new weapons, including a chainsaw, frying pan, axe and baseball bat."

Uh, so, TF2 gets new weapons as unlockables. L4D only gets new weapons for buying a whole new game? WTF?!
 

ElJuski

Staff member
Kinda unfortunate, but I'll pay for it. It's L4D afterall.
 
E

elph

I would hope that they release some kind of discount through Steam. If you already have L4D, you can get L4D2 at a discount. Or if they just simply lower the price of L4D. TF2 being $20 bucks (unless you bought the Orange Box) is a reasonable price. Hell, most of the new online FPS games come out no higher then $20 - $30. But to pony up another $50 straight out...

It angers me because of how my group just got into L4D. I brought a pirated copy to a LAN party, it got passed around and by the end of the night, all 12 of of us were ready to walk out and buy a copy (which we did by our next LAN party). Now, not even a year later, we get to throw another $50 (?) at the company? :devil:

A bonus of the Steam system should be that if you own a previous version of a game, you can get the next installment (through Steam only) at a discount.
 
C

Chummer

I read an article on it. New Director AI. Better graphics. More weapons. 5 campaigns instead of 4. Plus more alternate ways to play (like survivor). More boss monsters.

Every single thing is an upgrade.

While I still think this is BS, I can kind of see where they are coming from.

Plus i hear they are thinking of adding in the original L4D levels into it as well, though you'd still play as teh new characters.

Which BTW i dont think they will be as awesome as the original 4 survivors. Which Valve seems to feel the same way because they mentioned in the article that Valve says "The original 4 are like Gabe and Alyx is to Half-Life series".

Apparently the final sage has teh players escaping to a military base, perhaps to where the original 4 were going at the end of L4D? Then maybe L4D3 will feature all 8 characters? Or a mix?
 

So I should wait to buy this? I have not played it yet. Seriously.
 
C

Chummer

If they do include the original levels into the new game then yes I say wait and just get the sequel even though you wont get the original survivors (who are awesome).

If not, then get the original L4D which Im sure will be discounted to cheap real soon.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Video from IGN

Looks like L4D: Louisianna. Looks fun, but it had better be priced like an expansion pack if it's not going to be free.

EDIT: Incendiary ammunition looks like fun, though.

-- Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:21 pm --

L4D2 "The Parish"


So, instead of Francis, Zoey, Louis and Bill we get:

Miami Vice
Black Girl
Uncle Phil
and
The Scout
 
E

elph

Chummer said:
I read an article on it. New Director AI. Better graphics. More weapons. 5 campaigns instead of 4. Plus more alternate ways to play (like survivor). More boss monsters.

Every single thing is an upgrade.

While I still think this is BS, I can kind of see where they are coming from.

Plus i hear they are thinking of adding in the original L4D levels into it as well, though you'd still play as teh new characters.

Which BTW i dont think they will be as awesome as the original 4 survivors. Which Valve seems to feel the same way because they mentioned in the article that Valve says "The original 4 are like Gabe and Alyx is to Half-Life series".

Apparently the final sage has teh players escaping to a military base, perhaps to where the original 4 were going at the end of L4D? Then maybe L4D3 will feature all 8 characters? Or a mix?

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I understand that everything was an upgrade. On paper it seems it's an upgrade in every way (without playing it, I'm not about to say YAY!!! THIS IS SO FUCKING AWESOME!!!). Even that being the case, L4D was $50 for an unfinished game that wasn't even topped off a bit until 6 months later. Now, 6 months after that, we're getting a whole new game.

Let's also remember (if you go through the commentary of L4D) L4D is really just a supped up version of a mod someone was playing with on CS:S to test the AI.

I guess what I'm more irked about is the thought that I'm going to be dropping $50 so soon after dropping $30 on the first one. I'm not worried that I didn't get all the achievements, or that the SDK (beta) just came out. All that will come into place once L4D2 is actually out. I'm more looking at the aspect of 12 of us (many of us on limited gaming budgets) just went out and spent $30 on the first one. That others have spent $50 on an unfinished product.

I agree that if the changes are that much, and assuming that they continue to support it the way they do TF2, that a new purchase is necessary. However, I don't think it should be $50 necessary. Not when TF2 is getting so much for free for something that is so inexpensive to begin with.

I don't care about character models so much. I'm seeing it in first person, what do I care what my ass or tits look like? It's not like TF2 where the character you play has some in game mechanic as to how you move.

New gun models also aren't a selling point to me because you're going to have the same basic principles for guns. I do like the addition of melee weapons. That is something in L4D I was always itching to do (pick up something near by and just throw it at a zombie).

The day time zones are an interesting twist, but also something that could easily be done in what we have now. Maybe if they make it random (day/night) I'd be a little more impressed. You start the campaign and you choose (day/night/random) and the world is a little varied.

I've seen some of the images and videos. Yes it looks a little better, but at the same time I think it loses something in that. I like the gritty feel in L4D.

In the end, I'm squabbling about price (something that hasn't even been mentioned yet that I've found) and at that a difference of $20/$30. I will likely just wait until Steam does some kind of discount event which they are very likely to do anyway.
 
C

Chummer

figmentPez said:
Video from IGN

Looks like L4D: Louisianna. Looks fun, but it had better be priced like an expansion pack if it's not going to be free.

EDIT: Incendiary ammunition looks like fun, though.

-- Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:21 pm --

L4D2 "The Parish"


So, instead of Francis, Zoey, Louis and Bill we get:

Miami Vice
Black Girl
Uncle Phil
and
The Scout
I liked in the article how they are givin names or jobs except for the girl who is just called "Girl" or whatever.

Like in L4d, Soldier, Biker, Black Guy, Girl.

Now it's Rich Guy, Coach, Mechanic, Girl.
 
T

Twitch

You know what fucking pisses me off? Warcraft II, it's just fucking warcraft with better graphics new maps and new units. It's the old game with everything upgraded, I better get a discount.
 
C

Chummer

elph said:
I don't care about character models so much. I'm seeing it in first person, what do I care what my a** or * look like? It's not like TF2 where the character you play has some in game mechanic as to how you move.



.
I meant personality-wise. Francis is great that he hates everything. Zoey is the geek girl who comments on zombies. Bill is the old soldier with all the stories. And Loius is the average guy.

Now we have Joe Bob the Mechanic. Fat Coach. Black Girl. And Rich White Guy. IMO none of them are as appealing.

-- Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:33 pm --

Twitch said:
You know what smurfing * me off? Warcraft II, it's just smurfing warcraft with better graphics new maps and new units. It's the old game with everything upgraded, I better get a discount.
The problem people have is L4D JUST came out (more or less) and still doesn't feel complete. It needs 1 or 2 more campaigns. Perhaps an expansion pack or 2.

But instead we are getting a whole new $50 game w/ new characters.
 
T

Twitch

Chummer said:
elph said:
I don't care about character models so much. I'm seeing it in first person, what do I care what my a** or * look like? It's not like TF2 where the character you play has some in game mechanic as to how you move.



.
I meant personality-wise. Francis is great that he hates everything. Zoey is the geek girl who comments on zombies. Bill is the old soldier with all the stories. And Loius is the average guy.

Now we have Joe Bob the Mechanic. Fat Coach. Black Girl. And Rich White Guy. IMO none of them are as appealing.
Valve has done a wonderful job of giving characters like Bill, Loius, etc, and the TF2 characters even... character. They do nothing story wise, we know next to nothing about them, but we're still interested. I trust the new people will develop the same.
 
E

elph

Twitch said:
You know what smurfing * me off? Warcraft II, it's just smurfing warcraft with better graphics new maps and new units. It's the old game with everything upgraded, I better get a discount.
I see your point and normally I would agree. However, Warcraft was a complete game at release (maybe a bit buggy, but it was complete). Warcraft 2 didn't come out a year later (but 3 years later).

You're also looking at fairly different distribution models that are available to them for the time. Also, Blizzard didn't make the StarCraft at a lower price at the same time to give it regular updates and changes.

The graphic differences between L4D & L4D 2 don't appear to be as vast as Warcraft 1 & Warcraft 2 either.
 

ElJuski

Staff member
Chummer said:
elph said:
I don't care about character models so much. I'm seeing it in first person, what do I care what my a** or * look like? It's not like TF2 where the character you play has some in game mechanic as to how you move.



.
I meant personality-wise. Francis is great that he hates everything. Zoey is the geek girl who comments on zombies. Bill is the old soldier with all the stories. And Loius is the average guy.

Now we have Joe Bob the Mechanic. Fat Coach. Black Girl. And Rich White Guy. IMO none of them are as appealing.
You make this judgment having seen a poster and about a minute and a half of quite unrevealing footage. Good call.
 
Chummer said:
I meant personality-wise. Francis is great that he hates everything. Zoey is the geek girl who comments on zombies. Bill is the old soldier with all the stories. And Loius is the average guy.

Now we have Joe Bob the Mechanic. Fat Coach. Black Girl. And Rich White Guy. IMO none of them are as appealing.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06 ... s-preview/

Left 4 Dead 2 takes place in the South of the USA, beginning in Savannah, eventually reaching New Orleans. There’s four new characters to play, each with back-stories to be hinted at in their conversations. Coach is a high school football coach from the Savannah area, used to leading the kids, comfortable in his life, and perhaps not enamoured by the arrival of a zombie attack. There’s Rochelle, from Cleveland originally, working for a cable news network. She’s producing a segment on this strange story occurring in Savannah, and gets caught up in the events. Ellis is a Southern boy mechanic, an enthusiastic but smart guy with a “Southern flair”. Finally there’s Nick, a gambler and a conman, unsure of his company and cynical about the events.

The plan for the five new campaigns is to bring them together more coherently, so you can more obviously see how the events of one lead to the beginning of the next. Nothing that will enormously impact on jumping right in to a game in a particular stage, but giving a stronger narrative logic to the complete game. And with that, the new cast will also develop their personalities as things progress. Coach looks set to gain bravery as he gets closer to New Orleans, while Nick’s attitude to the others may soften. This will be born out in a more elaborate and involved collection of dialogue barks, once more primarily away from the player’s control. Perhaps one of the most endearing aspects of L4D was the characters’ surprisingly apt and timely remarks about the events, and occasional exchanges. This is to be expanded upon, with many more back-and-forth moments of chatter appropriate to the events happening around you.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Twitch said:
You know what smurfing * me off? Warcraft II, it's just smurfing warcraft with better graphics new maps and new units. It's the old game with everything upgraded, I better get a discount.
Valve hasn't even delivered on their promises for L4D. They didn't finish the first game, why should anyone think that the second will come through on it's promises of better everything? If Valve had followed through on their promises of what L4D would have, then I wouldn't be nearly as skeptical about L4D2.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Twitch said:
You know what fucking pisses me off? Warcraft II, it's just fucking warcraft with better graphics new maps and new units. It's the old game with everything upgraded, I better get a discount.
I think what people are more griping about is they didn't get the expansion pack for L4D1 they were all but promised. At least Warcraft 2 had an expansion pack before WC3 came out... and WC3 had an expansion pack, too.
 
G

Gadzooks

Twitch said:
You know what smurfing * me off? Warcraft II, it's just smurfing warcraft with better graphics new maps and new units. It's the old game with everything upgraded, I better get a discount.
L4D2 makes it seem more like a EA Sports business model, which most people will tell you nowadays isnt gonna fly for much longer. People are fed up with paying so much for games that don't change much or significantly and are released every year...
 
T

Twitch

figmentPez said:
Twitch said:
You know what smurfing * me off? Warcraft II, it's just smurfing warcraft with better graphics new maps and new units. It's the old game with everything upgraded, I better get a discount.
Valve hasn't even delivered on their promises for L4D. They didn't finish the first game, why should anyone think that the second will come through on it's promises of better everything? If Valve had followed through on their promises of what L4D would have, then I wouldn't be nearly as skeptical about L4D2.
I don't remember any promises that weren't kept. They promised me new modes of play and I got them. I bought the game that was advertised as X, I got X and X was the greatest game I've played. It's been seven months and they've announced a sequel not released a sequel.
 
C

Chummer

Chippy said:
Chummer said:
I meant personality-wise. Francis is great that he hates everything. Zoey is the geek girl who comments on zombies. Bill is the old soldier with all the stories. And Loius is the average guy.

Now we have Joe Bob the Mechanic. Fat Coach. Black Girl. And Rich White Guy. IMO none of them are as appealing.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06 ... s-preview/

Left 4 Dead 2 takes place in the South of the USA, beginning in Savannah, eventually reaching New Orleans. There’s four new characters to play, each with back-stories to be hinted at in their conversations. Coach is a high school football coach from the Savannah area, used to leading the kids, comfortable in his life, and perhaps not enamoured by the arrival of a zombie attack. There’s Rochelle, from Cleveland originally, working for a cable news network. She’s producing a segment on this strange story occurring in Savannah, and gets caught up in the events. Ellis is a Southern boy mechanic, an enthusiastic but smart guy with a “Southern flair”. Finally there’s Nick, a gambler and a conman, unsure of his company and cynical about the events.

The plan for the five new campaigns is to bring them together more coherently, so you can more obviously see how the events of one lead to the beginning of the next. Nothing that will enormously impact on jumping right in to a game in a particular stage, but giving a stronger narrative logic to the complete game. And with that, the new cast will also develop their personalities as things progress. Coach looks set to gain bravery as he gets closer to New Orleans, while Nick’s attitude to the others may soften. This will be born out in a more elaborate and involved collection of dialogue barks, once more primarily away from the player’s control. Perhaps one of the most endearing aspects of L4D was the characters’ surprisingly apt and timely remarks about the events, and occasional exchanges. This is to be expanded upon, with many more back-and-forth moments of chatter appropriate to the events happening around you.

Meh. I still stand by my statement. Old characters better. :humph:

Though the Con Man sounds cool.
 
T

Twitch

GasBandit said:
Twitch said:
You know what fucking pisses me off? Warcraft II, it's just fucking warcraft with better graphics new maps and new units. It's the old game with everything upgraded, I better get a discount.
I think what people are more griping about is they didn't get the expansion pack for L4D1 they were all but promised. At least Warcraft 2 had an expansion pack before WC3 came out... and WC3 had an expansion pack, too.
Which as I recall cost the price of a full game...

Edit: btw, the one thing I really wanted for L4D was more cohesiveness and the characters tying together more, I'm glad this will bring that.
 
Chummer said:
Chippy said:
Chummer said:
I meant personality-wise. Francis is great that he hates everything. Zoey is the geek girl who comments on zombies. Bill is the old soldier with all the stories. And Loius is the average guy.

Now we have Joe Bob the Mechanic. Fat Coach. Black Girl. And Rich White Guy. IMO none of them are as appealing.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06 ... s-preview/

Left 4 Dead 2 takes place in the South of the USA, beginning in Savannah, eventually reaching New Orleans. There’s four new characters to play, each with back-stories to be hinted at in their conversations. Coach is a high school football coach from the Savannah area, used to leading the kids, comfortable in his life, and perhaps not enamoured by the arrival of a zombie attack. There’s Rochelle, from Cleveland originally, working for a cable news network. She’s producing a segment on this strange story occurring in Savannah, and gets caught up in the events. Ellis is a Southern boy mechanic, an enthusiastic but smart guy with a “Southern flair”. Finally there’s Nick, a gambler and a conman, unsure of his company and cynical about the events.

The plan for the five new campaigns is to bring them together more coherently, so you can more obviously see how the events of one lead to the beginning of the next. Nothing that will enormously impact on jumping right in to a game in a particular stage, but giving a stronger narrative logic to the complete game. And with that, the new cast will also develop their personalities as things progress. Coach looks set to gain bravery as he gets closer to New Orleans, while Nick’s attitude to the others may soften. This will be born out in a more elaborate and involved collection of dialogue barks, once more primarily away from the player’s control. Perhaps one of the most endearing aspects of L4D was the characters’ surprisingly apt and timely remarks about the events, and occasional exchanges. This is to be expanded upon, with many more back-and-forth moments of chatter appropriate to the events happening around you.

Meh. I still stand by my statement. Old characters better. :humph:

Though the Con Man sounds cool.
ElJuski said:
You make this judgment having seen a poster and about a minute and a half of quite unrevealing footage. Good call.
 
C

Chummer

Chippy said:
Chummer said:
Chippy said:
Chummer said:
I meant personality-wise. Francis is great that he hates everything. Zoey is the geek girl who comments on zombies. Bill is the old soldier with all the stories. And Loius is the average guy.

Now we have Joe Bob the Mechanic. Fat Coach. Black Girl. And Rich White Guy. IMO none of them are as appealing.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06 ... s-preview/

Left 4 Dead 2 takes place in the South of the USA, beginning in Savannah, eventually reaching New Orleans. There’s four new characters to play, each with back-stories to be hinted at in their conversations. Coach is a high school football coach from the Savannah area, used to leading the kids, comfortable in his life, and perhaps not enamoured by the arrival of a zombie attack. There’s Rochelle, from Cleveland originally, working for a cable news network. She’s producing a segment on this strange story occurring in Savannah, and gets caught up in the events. Ellis is a Southern boy mechanic, an enthusiastic but smart guy with a “Southern flair”. Finally there’s Nick, a gambler and a conman, unsure of his company and cynical about the events.

The plan for the five new campaigns is to bring them together more coherently, so you can more obviously see how the events of one lead to the beginning of the next. Nothing that will enormously impact on jumping right in to a game in a particular stage, but giving a stronger narrative logic to the complete game. And with that, the new cast will also develop their personalities as things progress. Coach looks set to gain bravery as he gets closer to New Orleans, while Nick’s attitude to the others may soften. This will be born out in a more elaborate and involved collection of dialogue barks, once more primarily away from the player’s control. Perhaps one of the most endearing aspects of L4D was the characters’ surprisingly apt and timely remarks about the events, and occasional exchanges. This is to be expanded upon, with many more back-and-forth moments of chatter appropriate to the events happening around you.

Meh. I still stand by my statement. Old characters better. :humph:

Though the Con Man sounds cool.
ElJuski said:
You make this judgment having seen a poster and about a minute and a half of quite unrevealing footage. Good call.
:humph:
 
Meh, L4D would have been good in a packaged deal but as a full priced game it feels like a waste.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Twitch said:
I don't remember any promises that weren't kept.
From the L4D blog:
May 15, 2009 "The matchmaking system will be updated in a few weeks so everyone can play your hard work. We will be releasing additional information and tools next week to show how you can package up your maps and how they are delivered to players."

April 1, 2009 "To support the SDK, we are extending the matchmaking system to allow for third party campaigns. We will be adding extra features so players will be able to find dedicated servers running the campaigns they have installed. They will also be able to see friends playing third party campaigns, and be directed to download them as necessary."
 
E

elph

See, I thought the character interaction was neat, but I'm not hung up on it.

We have a token female at our LAN party and it's funny when she's not the female in game. We joke about how she's really just one of the guys and that kind of thing. Or we'll make jokes about being the odd man, the old man, etc... Beyond that, we're too focused on staying alive to really care that Zoey, Louis & Francis may be getting it on to make Bill jealous.
 
T

Twitch

figmentPez said:
Twitch said:
I don't remember any promises that weren't kept.
From the L4D blog:
May 15, 2009 "The matchmaking system will be updated in a few weeks so everyone can play your hard work. We will be releasing additional information and tools next week to show how you can package up your maps and how they are delivered to players."

April 1, 2009 "To support the SDK, we are extending the matchmaking system to allow for third party campaigns. We will be adding extra features so players will be able to find dedicated servers running the campaigns they have installed. They will also be able to see friends playing third party campaigns, and be directed to download them as necessary."
Good show then, I'm willing to bet that this will still happen but I understand the concern.
Then again there is, like I mentioned, the fact that this (to me) looks better than most expansion packs and I was willing to pay full price for a number of such e.p's
 

figmentPez

Staff member
elph said:
See, I thought the character interaction was neat, but I'm not hung up on it.

We have a token female at our LAN party and it's funny when she's not the female in game. We joke about how she's really just one of the guys and that kind of thing. Or we'll make jokes about being the odd man, the old man, etc... Beyond that, we're too focused on staying alive to really care that Zoey, Louis & Francis may be getting it on to make Bill jealous.
I'm actually in favor of a new cast. I'm not bored with the original four, but I'll gladly take some new faces. I just think it's hilarious that one looks like Uncle Phil and another looks like The Scout from TF2.
 
E

elph

figmentPez said:
elph said:
See, I thought the character interaction was neat, but I'm not hung up on it.

We have a token female at our LAN party and it's funny when she's not the female in game. We joke about how she's really just one of the guys and that kind of thing. Or we'll make jokes about being the odd man, the old man, etc... Beyond that, we're too focused on staying alive to really care that Zoey, Louis & Francis may be getting it on to make Bill jealous.
I'm actually in favor of a new cast. I'm not bored with the original four, but I'll gladly take some new faces. I just think it's hilarious that one looks like Uncle Phil and another looks like The Scout from TF2.
I guess there's a part of me that is in favor of a new cast with a new game environments and I do like options to look like someone different and all. Hell, I'd even go so far as to ask for different skins. Maybe unlockables that give new outfits (like the fighting games tend to do). But it's not a major selling point for me.
 
Read signature about Seriousjay's reaction to this news.

No further comment is needed.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
A poster on the Steam forums wondered if Valve isn't set to do another Orange Box type deal. If they bundle HL2: Episode 3, Portal 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 all together, I think I'd stop complaining.

-- Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:42 pm --

figmentPez said:
Twitch said:
I don't remember any promises that weren't kept.
From the L4D blog:
May 15, 2009 "The matchmaking system will be updated in a few weeks so everyone can play your hard work. We will be releasing additional information and tools next week to show how you can package up your maps and how they are delivered to players."

April 1, 2009 "To support the SDK, we are extending the matchmaking system to allow for third party campaigns. We will be adding extra features so players will be able to find dedicated servers running the campaigns they have installed. They will also be able to see friends playing third party campaigns, and be directed to download them as necessary."
And, some more unkept promises:

"So each time we've released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we've seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."

So, what changed Valve? "One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service." What happened to L4D as a service?
 

Gusto

Staff member
Is there any kinda of differentiation between characters, or a class system yet?

No?

Then I'm still not interested.
 
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