His character is the only reason I know the full names of the rest of the cast.
Just the Most Disgusting Thing I've Read Today...
- Thread starter Zappit
- Start date
It depends on the disability. There are some disabilities which would preclude waiting in lines for any length of time, which essentially means they cannot enjoy the park like a regular person if they are not given special access to shorter lines.
The American disabilities act requires operators to provide reasonable access to those who may not be able to follow the normal process.
The reality is that if this is actually a problem, all Disney has to do is start using facial recognition on the disabled and keep records so they can't enter the park under different names with different families. Thus a disabled tour guide would only be able to ply their trade maybe once a year under false pretenses.
But this could also simply be a made up story. There's absolutely no confirmation that it has or does happen, just the word of one person who won't even allow their name to be published. It's sensationalistic.
Unfortunately it also means that if it isn't happening that now the idea is widely spread it may start happening, or may happen in greater numbers if it is actually happening.
It depends entirely on how the parks accessibility rules are written, how well they comply with local and national disability regulations, how the contract between the tour guide, tour operator, and family is written, and how they present themselves.
If no one lies, and the tour operator is simply "a good friend" and Disney lets them have full access based on that alone, I don't see how there could be a problem.
If they have to create a fake identity for the tour guide in order to have the same last name as the family, or address, in order to defraud disney then there is a possible case.
I think the real problem with this is that if it is true, and if it does become a big problem for Disney, then they will likely change the rules and make it harder for truly disabled and their family to take advantage of the program.
Further, even if it isn't true, the disabled are going to face a lot more discrimination in parks from other guests who may have read the story or heard the myth and assume everyone in a motorized chair is actually fine and is only faking to get special access.
It's not like there isn't precedent.
Legislation gets through all the time, "...for the children."
The rich folks are just the pork-barrel riders on the disabled's coattails.
For you security-minded folks, this is essentially like having the disabled guy badge in and then having the rest slide through before the door finishes closing/resets.
--Patrick
Legislation gets through all the time, "...for the children."
The rich folks are just the pork-barrel riders on the disabled's coattails.
For you security-minded folks, this is essentially like having the disabled guy badge in and then having the rest slide through before the door finishes closing/resets.
--Patrick
Dave
Staff member
Except in this point it's a business that is saying, "Pay us and we'll give you a disabled guy with a badge."
Right, but that business is not Disney. The World has a loooong history of entrepreneurs seeing a need, and then filling it with a business model. Aereo and their thousands of tiny antennae, Gold farmers, or even people you pay to 'take cuts' for you*. It's not illegal, just taking advantage of their God-given right to exploit loopholes, that's all.
--Patrick
*At the time I created the link, their website bandwidth had been exceeded, which may indicated the level of demand for such a service.
Honestly, I think this is worse because its not just taking advantage of a loophole, its taking advantage of a loophole that only exists because they want to be nice and inclusive. If this is true and I'm Disney, I just have a sitting waiting area for disabled people to sit if they can't stand for an hour, where they can wait until their spot comes up.
I have absolutely no problem with this for someone who's only physically disabled - a wheelchair, being blind or deaf or similar doesn't impact waiting all that much (the guy in the wheelchair even gets to sit! ....ok, I'll take my bad humour elsewhere...). Mentally handicapped (Williams, Down,...) or brain damage victims aren't necessarily capable of the same. Do you want a 3-year-old in a 25-year-old body (or worse) throw a fit or go into hysterics - let alone seizure?
figmentPez
Staff member
Yes, motive matters. This was something that was explained to me when I was serving jury duty. If you walk out of a store with something because you forgot to set it down, and can demonstrate you really were just absentminded, or the velcro stuck to your sweater without your noticing, then that's not theft. Theft requries intent to steal.
Not that I'm arguing that this is legally fraud, but it doesn't have to be a legal offense for Disney to change their policies because of abuse of their goodwill.
Yeah thats a dick move. Not the biggest dick move out there, but a dick move none the less.
figmentPez
Staff member
You can only get a Fastpass for one ride at a time. You have to get the pass for a certain time and then return later to use it. Some rides don't have Fastpass. There are a limited number of Fastpass tickets for any given ride. What's free with admission is not comparable.
It's the VIP guided tours that Disney offers that are what's more expensive. At $315 - $380 per hour, and a minimum of six hours, that's at least $1,890. Versus, what the article quotes, $1,040 for 8 hours with the handicapped tour guide.
Oh hey, it seems this is starting to get some mainstream attention.
Today Show busts Disneyland Disabled cheaters.
--Patrick
Today Show busts Disneyland Disabled cheaters.
--Patrick
Disney amended their disabled access policy. Now those who have a disability that prevents them from waiting in line can now wait somewhere else and return at a specific time that is equal to the current line wait.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/23/travel/disney-disability-policy-changes/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/23/travel/disney-disability-policy-changes/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
So could a disabled person go to a bunch of rides all at once and get "in line" for them, then ride them in sequence?
Say a guy goes to four rides, and receives wait times of 15, 30, 45, and 60 minutes. He waits 15 minutes, goes to the first one, then goes to the second one at 30 minutes, etc. In that time, he could ride 4 rides, while some other guy waiting in line at the last ride will have stood there for an hour before he got to ride something.
Say a guy goes to four rides, and receives wait times of 15, 30, 45, and 60 minutes. He waits 15 minutes, goes to the first one, then goes to the second one at 30 minutes, etc. In that time, he could ride 4 rides, while some other guy waiting in line at the last ride will have stood there for an hour before he got to ride something.
Disney World already has this option, for everyone. It's called the qwik pass.
Dammit, and here I thought I'd found a way to game the system.
figmentPez
Staff member
In some ways, yes, but considering that some of the disabilities that make it difficult to stand in line would also make it taxing to be out and about for long periods of time, it will end up cutting down on the amount of rides they get to enjoy. While that may seem fair to someone able-bodied who doesn't want to stand around waiting all day, the difference is that for some disabled people they'll leave the park early and be forced to rest, possibly doing nothing else while recovering, while a healthy person leaves and enjoys a movie, goes golfing, dances at a club, whatever.
I can't say I fault Disney for cracking down and trying to make this as fair as possible, but I'm still sad for people who end up seeing significantly less of the Disney parks because of this.
Necronic
Staff member
Seriously? I used to work with a disabled MR girl with palsy, she literally could not stand in line that long without collapsing, hell she could barely make it up stairs. This is true for a lot of people.
They are people like us, people with different abilities and needs. A decent society should respect those differences and accomodate them.
I thought about that as well, but came to the conclusion that those with such a physical condition probably wouldn't be able to manage many rides in a day even if they could get on them immediately anyway.
The collection of disabled people who really can handle several physically demanding rides but can't handle going out for more than a few hours at a time is probably very, very small.
Further, I suspect that Disney can be petitioned for those very rare cases to give greater accommodation.
Necronic
Staff member
I dunno. It really depends. For some disabled people it is a real challenge to simply walk from ride A to ride B, so unless you want to hobble the other visitors they are already waitin longer. I think it's really no issue to allow them to skip ahead.
This issue is really tricky though because of the need to have people come with them. Maybe if you limit the guests that can skip with them to one or two you would eliminate most of this cheating.
Sure some people will cheat, but it's not really any different than handicap parking cheaters. If anythig it's far less severe since this is purely entertainment.[DOUBLEPOST=1380044808,1380044717][/DOUBLEPOST]
Polio and CP is not that rare.
Sure, but they would have problems just walking from the entrance of the park to the ride, even if they could get on right away. Besides, they don't have to wait in line, they can go elsewhere to wait.
The people this new policy hurts are those who can't spend 8 hours at the park for whatever reason. The old policy would have allowed them to ride several rides in an hour or two. The new policy will only let them ride once or twice in that same two hour block.
Knowing that, some disabled are unlikely to try to go, where under the old policy they might have been willing to spent $$$ for those two hours because they could get a lot out of it. Now $$$ for a ride or two is probably not worth it for them.
The people this new policy hurts are those who can't spend 8 hours at the park for whatever reason. The old policy would have allowed them to ride several rides in an hour or two. The new policy will only let them ride once or twice in that same two hour block.
Knowing that, some disabled are unlikely to try to go, where under the old policy they might have been willing to spent $$$ for those two hours because they could get a lot out of it. Now $$$ for a ride or two is probably not worth it for them.
figmentPez
Staff member
Most rides at Disney aren't physically demanding. Space Mountain and the Mad Teacups are, but stuff like Peter Pan's Flight, Small World, the Haunted Mansion just involve sitting down and watching scenery, they're even air conditioned.
I think my older sister, who went the WDW in between cancer treatements, is a good example of what I'm talking about. From the time she got out of bed and into her motorized wheelchair, the clock was ticking. Every minute she spent in a chair or car was more taxing on her than lying in bed. She could walk short distances, and sit on rides fine, but it was exhausting for her to do so. She was fully capable of enjoying rides, and her motorized wheelchair meant that distance wasn't an issue, but she could barely manage even half-days at the parks because sitting up wore her out. The fact that she could skip lines meant that she got to see far more than she would have otherwise, even though she had to go back to her hotel to rest, and sleep most of the afternoon and night, in order to recover.
This is very true. My best friend and his wife took their autistic son to Disney World, and they would not have been able to do so without special accomodation. Their son simply cannot handle a situation like waiting in a line.
I'd be interested to see if the amount of disabled passes requested after this came out increased, and by how much. From the article it almost sounds like it finally got to be too much, otherwise they would have left it as is. And I wonder if it was really ever that big of a deal that it needed to be plastered all over the news so everyone knew how to abuse it.