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Dammit, Frozen (spoilers)

Jan 5, 2014#1

Hailey Knight

WARNING AGAIN: Spoilers for the Disney movie FROZEN

If Frozen was a shitty movie through and through, I think I'd have less problems with it. I can tolerate something being shitty. What gets under my skin is when you mix shit and good ideas, so I have to go "Dammit, why couldn't those good things be in a better movie?"

I get that a lot of people enjoyed Frozen, so I made a point not to take cracks at it in the latest movie thread, but as my wife and I discussed seeing it again, all the problems I had with it came billowing up, both subjectively and objectively. At first I had believed that the filmmakers made Tangled for one kind of audience and Frozen for another, but the more thought I gave Frozen, the more I saw its cracks. All movies have problems as an objective matter. Even the most seemingly perfect films have issues. Your own enjoyment of a movie is going to be whether the good outweighs the bad.

So, what I liked: the visuals were beautiful, the animation (particularly the faces) was solid, the villain twist, and the love twist. Olaf was a decent character and had some great lines. The opening song was engaging and got me into the movie. I liked that the movie was about two sisters, particularly the backstory and the climax.

Okay, with that out of the way, some of my problems were subjective and others are critical to the structure of the film. I could not stand the presentation of the song "Let It Go." Good writing, one of the few songs that didn't feel intrusive, and yet they present it like a pop song. The way the piano plays as the camera pans the mountain at the song's opening feels like the scene was designed firstly a scene they could isolate as a music video clip on the Disney channel, and really took me out of what was an emotional moment for Elsa. (I also can't stand the singer's shrill high notes and would've preferred a slightly lower pitch, but that's personal taste and I can't hold that against the movie.)

Too many fucking characters whose purposes are to be red herrings. Weasel Duke is a pretend villain so we have someone to hate-on until Hans shows his true colors. Hans is a pretend love interest because Anna will really fall for Kristof. Kristof is a pretend love cure because the love between Anna and Elsa is the real deal. If you cut out Weasel Duke and make Elsa the pretend villain, and get rid of Kristof so that Hans seems like the love interest, you get a stronger story with less characters to shove in. Having Hans be the only love interest, and then betray Anna, would mean the movie-makers had to stick to their message at the end. Same with Elsa and Anna--if Elsa is the villain red herring until the prince captures her, Anna's love comes off as stronger. I don't know why Kristof exists except to give Anna a man at the end, which is against the message in the movie. Sven could've been that whole character, no love interest. The inclusion of these unnecessary characters makes it feel like the movie's overall purpose is to trick the audience, when they could've pulled off the twists they wanted without bogging down the story.

The songs came out of nowhere much of the time. It felt like the people doing the screenplay had almost no contact with the people writing the songs. It felt like "Hi, I'm a character AND HERE'S MY SONG okay, back to what we were doing," as opposed to developing characters or moving the story forward. Recent Disney movies have gotten away from the kinds of songs that just interrupt the pacing and this felt like a huge step back. "Let It Go" was one of the times I felt the song made sense to be at that moment, but Olaf's song, the troll song, Hans and Anna's song, the building a snowman song ... ugh. I liked a couple of those songs, especially Olaf's, but their placement was bizarre. I'm glad the movie got away from this in the third act or we would've had the awkward "running-singing-gotta get there in time but sing about it" way overdone climax of Pocahontas.

I really would've like to see more scenes of Anna and Elsa, but that's not the story about sistery love they were trying to tell, it seems.

Now, I may care about these problems less if I watch Frozen not right after re-watching Spirited Away, Ratatouille, and Kung Fu Panda 2, followed up by Tangled, The Princess and the Frog, and Wreck-It Ralph. My viewing sandwiched it in the middle of much better animated movies, whereas people with kids have probably had to watch some true garbage and Frozen was a beacon of icy glory. But whether I care or not, the problems exist.

Then there's this video (warning: spoilers for Frozen, Tangled, and Wreck-It Ralph)

I don't agree with everything these guys say, but most of the problems they note are accurate, especially comparing how Frozen tackles character emotion and dialogue versus an important scene in Wreck-It Ralph.

Jan 5, 2014#2

ThatNickGuy

I think time and re-watching it will likely have me agreeing with you more. In fact, the more I've thought about the movie since seeing it, the more I realize there are a number of problems with it. Some of the musical numbers really do feel shoehorned in, especially the troll song. At that point, we're so far into the movie - not to mention without a song in quite awhile - that it just felt unnecessary.

For me, "Let it Go" was one of the finest Disney songs we've had in quite awhile. That you're not a fan of Idina Menzel likely plays a major role in your general distaste for the song. Personally, I loved it because it starts out slow and then gradually builds until she's full-on diva, belting out the number at the top of her lungs, like it's a huge coming out party for her acceptance of her situation (and powers). For that alone, some people are saying it's a quasi-allegory to someone in the LGBT community coming out. I'd say that's arguable, but there's enough there to argue in its favour.

I didn't mind the Duke character because really, he wasn't very well developed and didn't hoard much screen time.

Jan 5, 2014#3

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
For me, "Let it Go" was one of the finest Disney songs we've had in quite awhile. That you're not a fan of Idina Menzel likely plays a major role in your general distaste for the song. Personally, I loved it because it starts out slow and then gradually builds until she's full-on diva, belting out the number at the top of her lungs, like it's a huge coming out party for her acceptance of her situation (and powers). For that alone, some people are saying it's a quasi-allegory to someone in the LGBT community coming out. I'd say that's arguable, but there's enough there to argue in its favour.

As I noted, my problems with how it's sung are personal taste. I still think it could've been presented better for such a crucial scene, but there's nothing wrong with the song itself. I'm sure someday someone will do a cover that I'll love.

Jan 5, 2014#4

ThatNickGuy

Zero Esc said:
As I noted, my problems with how it's sung are personal taste. I still think it could've been presented better for such a crucial scene, but there's nothing wrong with the song itself. I'm sure someday someone will do a cover that I'll love.

Found one for ya.

Jan 5, 2014#5

Cajungal

Though I enjoyed the movie, I felt like it was all over the place sometimes. Looking back at the animated films that have attempted to give the female protagonist a bit more depth and character, I wonder if writers are struggling with creating a story filled with complex people that still appeals to children. I know it is also one of those films that went through a lot of production hell like Brave, but I just wonder if that plays a part at all.

As for "Let it Go," I love Idina Menzel's voice, and the character's expressions during the song really touch me. I do feel like the voice didn't match up with the look of the character sometimes. I imagined that character with a deeper voice, I guess.

Jan 5, 2014#6

D

Dubyamn

Yeah couldn't disagree with you more. I loved the movie the whole time.

Liked the characters and thought they were all interacted extremely well, liked the pacing it didn't seem to have any flab on the story and I liked the finale.

Jan 5, 2014#7

Hailey Knight

Cajungal said:
Though I enjoyed the movie, I felt like it was all over the place sometimes. Looking back at the animated films that have attempted to give the female protagonist a bit more depth and character, I wonder if writers are struggling with creating a story filled with complex people that still appeals to children. I know it is also one of those films that went through a lot of production hell like Brave, but I just wonder if that plays a part at all.

I was wondering that too. It's a lot easier to tell a simple love story well that kids can understand than to tell more complex, layered ones about family relationships ... I guess? Lilo and Stitch did it great. So did How to Train Your Dragon. Those are just off the top of my head; I'm sure there are other examples.

I didn't know Frozen had a hellish behind the scenes like Brave--that explains a lot, because I had the same feeling while watching it as I did while watching Brave, like the script needed another draft, but they didn't have time, and there were competing visions as to how the movie should be.

As for "Let it Go," I love Idina Menzel's voice, and the character's expressions during the song really touch me. I do feel like the voice didn't match up with the look of the character sometimes. I imagined that character with a deeper voice, I guess.

I thought deeper voice too.

Jan 5, 2014#8

Cajungal

Zero Esc said:
I didn't know Frozen had a hellish behind the scenes like Brave--that explains a lot, because I had the same feeling while watching it as I did while watching Brave, like the script needed another draft, but they didn't have time, and there were competing visions as to how the movie should be.

I don't think it was as bad as Brave in terms of production, but it was one of those that was proposed somewhere back in the 90s and it took forever to get off the ground. So it might've been a bit "overcooked."

Jan 5, 2014#9

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
Found one for ya.

I'm crying.

Jan 5, 2014#10

Reverent-one

Zero Esc said:
The songs came out of nowhere much of the time. It felt like the people doing the screenplay had almost no contact with the people writing the songs. It felt like "Hi, I'm a character AND HERE'S MY SONG okay, back to what we were doing," as opposed to developing characters or moving the story forward. Recent Disney movies have gotten away from the kinds of songs that just interrupt the pacing and this felt like a huge step back. "Let It Go" was one of the times I felt the song made sense to be at that moment, but Olaf's song, the troll song, Hans and Anna's song, the building a snowman song ... ugh. I liked a couple of those songs, especially Olaf's, but their placement was bizarre. I'm glad the movie got away from this in the third act or we would've had the awkward "running-singing-gotta get there in time but sing about it" way overdone climax of Pocahontas.

Given your comment about recent Disney movies getting away from this, is this an inherent problem with the Disney musical style that you also have with a bunch of the older Disney classics(Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin)? Or are you saying that it's a matter of execution where you feel Frozen falls behind?

Jan 5, 2014#11

Hailey Knight

Reverent-one said:
Given your comments about recent Disney movies getting away from this, is this an inherent problem with the Disney musical style that you also have with a bunch of the older Disney classics(Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin)? Or are you saying that it's a matter of execution where you feel Frozen falls behind?

I'd have to re-watch some of the older Disney movies to go point for point, song for song, because you'll have songs where they feel like they have a purpose or at least the moment is right for a song versus having a song for the sake of having a song. No movie is all one or all the other. Even Tangled, which I love, had one that felt dropped in.

The difference I'm thinking is between the music, scene, dialogue, etc. saying "Okay, here comes a song" versus "SONG HERE!", which for all I know is what it said in the script before the songs were written.

Jan 5, 2014#12

Reverent-one

Alright, in that case including "Do you want to build a snowman" on that list really feels off to me then (the others I agree or disagree with you to varying extents). It's a song that covers the time lapse between past and present and establishes both Anna's and Elsa's relationship in the aftermath of the incident and Anna's personality, that seems about as far from one of those songs they just pop in and breaks up the pacing as you can get to me.

Jan 5, 2014#13

Hailey Knight

Reverent-one said:
Alright, in that case including "Do you want to build a snowman" on that list really feels off to me then (the others I agree or disagree with you to varying extents). It's a song that covers the time lapse between past and present and establishes both Anna's and Elsa's relationship in the aftermath of the incident and Anna's personality, that seems about as far from one of those songs they just pop in and breaks up the pacing as you can get to me.

There did need to be a montage there and a song can help that move along. The way it comes in is sudden.

On a subjective level, I didn't care for the song because the lyrics felt awkward and made me cringe (and later I found my wife felt the same), but that's me personally and that's not something I'd hold against the movie.

Jan 5, 2014#14

Shawn

I always wonder why some people seem to think that all movies have to follow certain rules. You can't have a character from the past that doesn't connect with the past. Etc.
I mean if I enjoy the film that's all that matters right?

Jan 5, 2014#15

Hailey Knight

Shawnacy said:
I always wonder why some people seem to think that all movies have to follow certain rules. You can't have a character from the past that doesn't connect with the past. Etc.

I don't think it's been said here that all movies have to follow certain rules, so I don't know what you're referring to. There are many methods to making a story work, a character, etc. Sometimes movie makers do old cliches and they work. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes movie makers try new things and they work. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they get lazy and it shows. Sometimes it works anyway. Most of the time you have a movie with both good and bad in it.

Shawnacy said:
I mean if I enjoy the film that's all that matters right?

If I like it, then I like it; if I don't like it, then I don't like it. Don't ask why, don't discuss things.

I think you know that I'm not Charlie--I'm not saying people shouldn't like the movie. Notice that Dubyaman's post was pretty much "I like this, I like that" and I didn't respond to it? Because the only thing up for discussion from that is whether he liked the movie and there is nothing to discuss about that. Those are his feelings. Like I said in my OP, on a future viewing, I might be able to look past these problems more than I do now and like the movie a little more. But the problems still exist. Like I also said in my OP, people with kids end up seeing a lot of garbage regularly, so their tolerance threshold for problems is pretty low. Back when I was babysitting and my cousins wanted to watch the same Spongebob Squarepants episode and then Cinderella 2 over and over, even Pocahontas seemed like a godsend.

Julie popped in to point out that people not immersed in stories and analyzing stories aren't going to find analyzing of stories/movies/etc. to be a subject of merit. I could've sat and analyzed why Wreck-It Ralph is a great movie with the same detail as analyzing why Frozen isn't, but I didn't feel it necessary. This felt necessary because I really wanted to like Frozen, but I couldn't get past all the problems I see in it, and I want to discuss it. I'm not shitting on anyone else liking the movie though.[DOUBLEPOST=1388972807,1388972682][/DOUBLEPOST]Aaaand now I've shown her the "Let It Go" baby version and she's wandering around the apartment singing "let it doe, let it DOE".

Thanks a bunch, Nick.

Jan 5, 2014#16

ThatNickGuy

Zero Esc said:
Aaaand now I've shown her the "Let It Go" baby version and she's wandering around the apartment singing "let it doe, let it DOE".

Thanks a bunch, Nick.

(I'm honestly surprised your main squeeze doesn't just join us on the forums. From the things you've told me about her, she'd fit right in.)

Jan 5, 2014#17

Dream Goddess

ThatNickGuy said:
(I'm honestly surprised your main squeeze doesn't just join us on the forums. From the things you've told me about her, she'd fit right in.)

*clears throat menacingly*

Jan 5, 2014#18

ThatNickGuy

Dream Goddess said:
*clears throat menacingly*

CHEESE IT, IT'S THE WIFE! :aaah:

Jan 5, 2014#19

Reverent-one

Zero Esc said:
If I like it, then I like it; if I don't like it, then I don't like it. Don't ask why, don't discuss things.

I think you know that I'm not Charlie--I'm not saying people shouldn't like the movie. Notice that Dubyaman's post was pretty much "I like this, I like that" and I didn't respond to it? Because the only thing up for discussion from that is whether he liked the movie and there is nothing to discuss about that. Those are his feelings. Like I said in my OP, on a future viewing, I might be able to look past these problems more than I do now and like the movie a little more. But the problems still exist. Like I also said in my OP, people with kids end up seeing a lot of garbage regularly, so their tolerance threshold for problems is pretty low. Back when I was babysitting and my cousins wanted to watch the same Spongebob Squarepants episode and then Cinderella 2 over and over, even Pocahontas seemed like a godsend.

Julie popped in to point out that people not immersed in stories and analyzing stories aren't going to find analyzing of stories/movies/etc. to be a subject of merit. I could've sat and analyzed why Wreck-It Ralph is a great movie with the same detail as analyzing why Frozen isn't, but I didn't feel it necessary. This felt necessary because I really wanted to like Frozen, but I couldn't get past all the problems I see in it, and I want to discuss it. I'm not shitting on anyone else liking the movie though.

Wellll...the "people see a lot of crap, so I understand how they might not care about the problems" comes off a bit of shitting on those who like it, since it sounds like you're saying they don't actually know what's good like you do. Speaking as someone who's recently watched Tangled (one of the much better movies you mentioned sandwiching Frozen between), I'd say Frozen is at least as good, if not better. But that's me. You're entitled to your thoughts on what worked and what didn't, and I respect that, but I hope you don't think those of us who liked it only did so because we don't know anything better.

Jan 5, 2014#20

Dream Goddess

Reverent-one said:
Wellll...the "people see a lot of crap, so I understand how they might not care about the problems" comes off a bit of shitting on those who like it, since it sounds like you're saying they don't actually know what's good like you do. Speaking as someone who's recently watched Tangled (one of the much better movies you mentioned sandwiching Frozen between), I'd say Frozen is at least as good, if not better. But that's me. You're entitled to your thoughts on what worked and what didn't, and I respect that, but I hope you don't think those of us who liked it only did so because we don't know anything better.

No, no. You don't know any better. >:3

Jan 5, 2014#21

Krisken

I enjoyed it in a packed theater. Tons of people, some kids even in the back singing the songs while they played. Good time had by all.

Jan 5, 2014#22

Hailey Knight

Dream Goddess said:
No, no. You don't know any better. >:3

No.

Reverent-one said:
Wellll...the "people see a lot of crap, so I understand how they might not care about the problems" comes off a bit of shitting on those who like it, since it sounds like you're saying they don't actually know what's good like you do. Speaking as someone who's recently watched Tangled (one of the much better movies you mentioned sandwiching Frozen between), I'd say Frozen is at least as good, if not better. But that's me. You're entitled to your thoughts on what worked and what didn't, and I respect that, but I hope you don't think those of us who liked it only did so because we don't know anything better.

Your paraphrasing entirely changes what I said.

The whole point of my saying that was so as NOT to come off that way. I felt I worded it in the OP to be clear that maybe my perception was more against Frozen because of recent context. Context can affect perception, so I illustrated my context versus possible context that people with kids would be in. So as not to be coming across as "I know what you should like". It wasn't that people with kids don't know what's good or not because I never made that judgment. To give you a counter-context, Dei has kids, likely sees a lot of crap, and felt Frozen was flat. So there, example ruined. By how you're phrasing it, I see her as a fellow enlightened person who watched the movies I listed--except likely everybody with kids right now has seen most if not all of those movies, because that's what happens when you have kids. You're taking it as if the context element is movie ranking, but my point was that how you feel can be colored by what's going on around you. Even the experience at the theater can color how a person feels.

So again, I mentioned that to give clarity to my situation. The majority of the OP is about breaking down the movie's issues, but that part was to mention mine.

To reverse it, if you asked me to defend old Godzilla movies on an objective level, I really couldn't. Their plots are messy, the effects get worse every film, the acting isn't good with the occasional exception, there are long stretches of film where nothing much happens--I could go on and with the detail I gave Frozen. But I enjoy those movies. That doesn't restrict me from criticizing them.

So yet again, perhaps in a future context, Frozen will appeal to me more and I'll enjoy it despite its problems. That doesn't change the movie, doesn't change its problems; the change would be mine. I've had that happen where movies I didn't care for I later came to enjoy, and movies I enjoyed became movies I didn't care for. But the problems with the movies don't change (unless they're Star Wars OT and absorb new problems with each revision).

Jan 5, 2014#23

Reverent-one

Fair enough, I didn't think you were really trying to be a jerk, just sharing how that statement came off to me.

Jan 6, 2014#24

Shawn

Well to analyze, I think that Wreck-It-Ralph and Frozen are two entirely different movies in terms of format. For example the guys with from that Critical Hit video compared the two in terms of expression. Frozen has to sing the word "fear" to show the audience she's scared, while Wreck It Ralph can do it without works. Well I think the biggest difference that wasn't considered is that one is a musical and one isn't. Musicals DO express their feelings through words/song. That's the point.

Jan 6, 2014#25

Hailey Knight

Shawnacy said:
Well to analyze, I think that Wreck-It-Ralph and Frozen are two entirely different movies in terms of format. For example the guys with from that Critical Hit video compared the two in terms of expression. Frozen has to sing the word "fear" to show the audience she's scared, while Wreck It Ralph can do it without works. Well I think the biggest difference that wasn't considered is that one is a musical and one isn't. Musicals DO express their feelings through words/song. That's the point.

There's a difference between expressing it in words and saying exactly what it is. It's lazy to have the characters say "I feel this way" instead of having them act in a way that represents it. It's lazy to say "Hey audience, these characters are in love" instead of having them act in ways that make it clear they're in love.

Even musically, "there's so much fear" is a lazy lyric. Imagine if the Beauty and the Beast songs "Something There" and "Beauty and the Beast" went something like "They might love each other" and "Now they love each other" respectively.

That might not make much difference for you, but for me, the Critical Hit video nailed it when they said (paraphrasing) that if you just tell me something, I'm not feeling it. I went into Frozen expecting to have a good time and wanting to like. I don't sit there analyzing the movie while watching it or marking up a checklist. I just watch the movie. If I feel some disconnect, or don't feel anything though, it's going to sour the experience, and afterward I wonder why, and start analyzing to figure it out. Was it me? Was it the movie? A little of both?

Like I said in the OP, if I felt Frozen was a bad movie, I'd just write it off and forget about it. But I'd be enjoying one scene and disconnected the next, and it was this jarring mix of good and bad that bugged me.

Jan 6, 2014#26

Zappit

This discussion is really refreshing. I keep seeing Frozen stuff on Tumblr, and my God, it has broken down into such wretched social justice bullshit it can actually trigger a migraine.

Jan 6, 2014#27

Hailey Knight

Zappit said:
This discussion is really refreshing. I keep seeing Frozen stuff on Tumblr, and my God, it has broken down into such wretched social justice bullshit it can actually trigger a migraine.

Oh yeah, all of that is complete fucking nonsense.

Jan 6, 2014#28

Dei

It's ok to not like Frozen. I came out of it feeling pretty meh, though unlike you I like the music.

I thought Gravity was also terrible, but when I say that I get the same reactions.

Jan 6, 2014#29

Krisken

Dei said:
I thought Gravity was also terrible, but when I say that I get the same reactions.

You're in good company.

Jan 6, 2014#30

Hailey Knight

Dei said:
It's ok to not like Frozen. I came out of it feeling pretty meh, though unlike you I like the music. I thought Gravity was also terrible, but when I say that I get the same reactions.

I liked some of the music and didn't like other of the music.

And Gravity WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T LIKE GRAVITY WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH I haven't actually seen it. :/

Jan 6, 2014#31

Gusto

I liked Frozen. After giving it a few days to consider, I definitely preferred Tangled.

Also:

Zero Esc said:
There's a difference between expressing it in words and saying exactly what it is. It's lazy to have the characters say "I feel this way" instead of having them act in a way that represents it. It's lazy to say "Hey audience, these characters are in love" instead of having them act in ways that make it clear they're in love.

Jan 6, 2014#32

Hailey Knight

Jan 7, 2014#33

Hailey Knight

Came to my attention today that I'm pretty much doing what I'm accusing Frozen of with telling that I thought some of it was good without showing that. So I'm gonna run with this comment:

Zappit said:
This discussion is really refreshing. I keep seeing Frozen stuff on Tumblr, and my God, it has broken down into such wretched social justice bullshit it can actually trigger a migraine.

and defend it from some of the criticism I've seen with another breakdown, since I can't fall back on "I liked it".

Criticism #1: Frozen is racist, Disney is racist, ALL THE RACISTS!!!11

First and most obvious, having the main characters be white is not racist, and if it was, having three background wallpaper characters being other ethnicities would not be a defense against it. Frozen has the unfortunate luck of becoming a scapegoat for social justice idiots. If this was The Last Airbender-level white washing, I'd agree it was racist. But it's based on a Danish fairy tale in a fictional kingdom. Frozen is not The Snow Queen. The diverse characters from that story aren't present to be white washed--in fact, none of the characters from The Snow Queen are present. Nor is the plot, the backstory, the location. Frozen doesn't resemble The Snow Queen at all, so if anyone has a reason to be pissed, it's fans of the Hans Christian Anderson story for the end credits bothering to say Frozen is based on that story.

Criticism #2: Hans didn't have to be evil and his plan was stupid.

No character has to be evil.

Hans is essentially a Joffrey who has fooled the audience and not just the characters. And that's fine; that level of deception meant his turn could be a surprise for the audience, it was well-executed in its scene, and looking back at the rest of the movie, it didn't confuse things--instead it made them make more sense. Even a 13th son of a king wouldn't be in sheltered desperation for love. He knew his chances at a throne lay in marriage and he went for it. Now, it would've been smarter if, instead of trying to kill Anna, he let things take their course and then got her pregnant. A bloodline tie to the established royalty would be the best way to secure his place. However, again, Hans wouldn't be desperate for love, and probably would've found someone else pretty easily. He was already planning to be the hero of the kingdom, and even if the un-witnessed marriage vows were bullshit, someone would've needed to be established as the ruler and start of a new royal bloodline. If anything, the ease of which he pulled the wool over everyone's eyes made him arrogant.

And for the people I've seen who said "Why couldn't Hans's kiss just not have worked?" ... they already did that in Enchanted. Does no one remember Enchanted? It was a decent Disney movie and pretty funny.

Criticism #3: The feminist message is empty and bullshit.

One of Critical Hit's points I disagree with: I don't think Frozen's writing is simple because they wanted to tell little girls they could only understand simple dialogue. I think that happened because they ran out of time to punch up the dialogue. It costs a lot of money to alter those mouth and facial movements once they've been made, so everything kind of had to be in place before animation started, and animation is time-consuming.

"But in the original story, the girl went off on her own--" NO. That was The Snow Queen and the girl was Gerda. This is Anna. She's a sheltered princess who was smart enough to learn from her own mistake when she tried going off on her own and found she couldn't do it to find a guide. If Kristof is going to be in the movie (I still say Olaf could've done the part) then Anna at least got him on board. He's had more experience on the mountain than her 0 hours, 10 minutes.

The big thing against this is the climax though. Anna's instinct and then Olaf's suggestion point her "true love" option as getting a kiss from someone who loves her, i.e. passively receiving the act of another. What happens, and without Anna meaning to, is her aggressively performing the act of true love herself. She saves not only her sister's life, but her own. She did the act of true love. Let's ignore that being a well-done, ignore the sister connection--the heroine princess saved herself and another through action, not passivity.

Now, in the adult world we don't need every woman to be a feminist figure--people of all genders should be people, and as diverse as real life people are. But compared to the long line of Disney princesses, and other non-Katniss fictional role models that children look up to, that's a pretty strong example of taking control of her own situation.

SHOWING.

Jan 7, 2014#34

Bubble181

Dammit! I know, I know, the title reads "spoilers", but I figured I'd be OK if I skipped the OP and skimmed here and there. Oh well

Jan 7, 2014#35

Celt Z

Wow... I must live in a cave (or just go to the wrong websites), because I didn't realize criticisms #2 and #3 existed, and I'm going to agree with you assessment, @zero Es The only complaints I heard, and they were before the movie was released, were "they changed the story/added guys/ruined The Snow Queen" and your #1, the diversity issue, which critics really had to jump through hoops to "prove" why there could have been/should have been more racial diversity. Look, I am totally pro-diversity representation, both racial and gender, but like you said; it's a DANISH fairy tale. I'm not going to go into Mulan or The Lion King screaming, "Hey, where the white women at?!"
I'd also like to point out that once the movie was released, a number of the dissenters changed their mind that Disney ruined the story and did a good job upholding the message of sisterhood, etc. Along those lines, I think they might have been able to pull off the plot

without Hans entirely with just the Duke of Weseltown and misundertanding Elsa, but Hans did create a nice red herring.

You know the one thing that bugged me?

Why did Pabbie/Grandpa never mention he met Anna before? He couldn't have taken, what, 2 seconds to mention he warned her parents about the danger of Elsa hitting the heart? Or erasing her memories?

(Spoiler tags for @Bubble181 )

Jan 7, 2014#36

Hailey Knight

Sorry, Bubble181, but I gave like three warnings

Celt Z said:
You know the one thing that bugged me?

Why did Pabbie/Grandpa never mention he met Anna before? He couldn't have taken, what, 2 seconds to mention he warned her parents about the danger of Elsa hitting the heart? Or erasing her memories?

I thought about that too. It would've created some nice character growth, for Anna to realize this accident has happened before, and let her know exactly what went down that made Elsa have to be secluded.

Jan 7, 2014#37

Celt Z

That's what I was thinking. It would have been an "Aha!" moment for Anna, and probably given her a little more insight to her sister.

And now that I'm thinking about it...

Why didn't Kristoff mention it? He witnessed the whole thing when he was a kid, and I don't remember them erasing his memory. Or did they and I just forgot?

Jan 7, 2014#38

Bubble181

Zero Esc said:
Sorry, Bubble181, but I gave like three warnings .

I thought about that too. It would've created some nice character growth, for Anna to realize this accident has happened before, and let her know exactly what went down that made Elsa have to be secluded.

Oh, I know, I'm saying "dammit" to myself, not you

The thread's labelled "Spoilers" right there in the title, and I really don't expect people to have their whole discussion in spoiler tags - au contraire, I'm annoyed when I have to.

Still, I've been reading this thread (sans the OP) since the beginning, and only at the point I posted have I accidentally read something I didn't really want to know. And I'm fully aware that's my "fault", if I didn't want to know, I shouldn't be here

Jan 7, 2014#39

Hailey Knight

Celt Z said:
That's what I was thinking. It would have been an "Aha!" moment for Anna, and probably given her a little more insight to her sister.

And now that I'm thinking about it...

Why didn't Kristoff mention it? He witnessed the whole thing when he was a kid, and I don't remember them erasing his memory. Or did they and I just forgot?

He didn't mention it. The scene did the "you're in love" bit, then the troll king explained the frozen heart issue, and then they went off to Hans. Kristof didn't bother. It was weird.

BTW, the other criticisms were more things from Tumblr.

Jan 7, 2014#40

Dei

Didn't he make a comment on how they fixed it before?

Jan 8, 2014#41

Hailey Knight

Dei said:
Didn't he make a comment on how they fixed it before?

He made a comment, but didn't give Anna any context and troll king didn't explain what had happened. I suppose Anna could've found out off-screen, but there's no indication of that. As far as the movie shows, she never finds out her memories were messed with or what really happened.

Also, good job, troll king! You really fixed that situation in your advising the king and queen! Totally didn't set up the older princess with the backstory of a psychopath! A+ magical helping!

Jan 8, 2014#42

Dei

One thing that also irritated me was Kristof's backstory. Was he just a random orphan tagging along with ice merchants and no one gave a shit that he ended up getting raised by trolls? It was confusing.

Jan 8, 2014#43

Hailey Knight

Dei said:
One thing that also irritated me was Kristof's backstory. Was he just a random orphan tagging along with ice merchants and no one gave a shit that he ended up getting raised by trolls? It was confusing.

I didn't realize he was an orphan until he said the trolls took him and Sven in. At the beginning of the movie I just assumed he was the son or apprentice to one of the ice merchants.

Jan 8, 2014#44

Celt Z

That was what I thought about young Kristoff, too. None of these things ruined the movie for me, but I did find myself wondering about them.

Jan 9, 2014#45

Dei

I will say that normally I consider the solution being "the power of love" to be lazy story telling, but I did approve of it wholeheartedly in this case.

Jan 14, 2014#46

GasBandit

Disney songs are tough on altos.

Jan 14, 2014#47

Dei

Can't watch on mobile wtf! I feel this pain though.

Jan 14, 2014#48

Cajungal

GasBandit said:
Disney songs are tough on altos.

HAH! Talk about. I can't sing along (well) with a lot of awesome Disney songs.

Jan 14, 2014#49

grub

They are no easier on basses, except many of the villain songs.

Jan 14, 2014#50

Dirona

This is why I sing all male parts all the time. Mainly cuz I like singing tenor.

That said, isn't Idina an alto (technically)? At least that's what I thought, because I can usually sing her parts... mostly.

Jan 14, 2014#51

Dei

She's an alto/mezzo soprano, so she has a pretty good range.

The person who made the video said she was referring to most Disney music, she just happened to chose this one because she liked it.

Jan 14, 2014#52

Dirona

And on the whole I totally and completely agree. The vast majority of stage and movie music is written for the higher voices.

Jan 15, 2014#53

Gusto

Jan 20, 2014#54

strawman

Well that didn't take long. Interesting facts about it's reception and success:
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2014/01/disney-frozen-broadway/

I can understand that it didn't ring bells for everyone, and there are those who will seek to explain their displeasure as objective rather than subjective, but the reality is that it is a great movie. There are some areas where it could improve, and perhaps we'll see that on Broadway, but as-is, it's fantastic.

I think the biggest problem nay-sayers have with it have to do with the fact that you could say there are co-protagonists. Anna is the film's protagonist, but Elsa overshadows her, and is given the better song and more interesting parts. While they could have made Anna's part stronger, or switched to make it Elsa's story, it wasn't a bad choice to make it this way. But it will feel weak and unsatisfying for people who want the story to be about Elsa and spend most of the movie watching Anna.

It's also not a very deep story emotionally. It has a lot of emotion, there's no doubt there, but the emotions aren't very complex. I'd argue they don't need to be, and that it's fine as it is. However no one really changed in the movie. Anna loves her sister enough to die for her - well Elsa probably would have done the same if the roles were reversed. The movie suggests Anna's eventual acceptance of the loss of her sister, but doesn't really drive home the fact that, in her mind at least, she had given up on having family, and was looking elsewhere for her happiness and relationships. But she doesn't change, not really, and she's the film's protagonist.

Elsa gives up trying to be what she's not. It's not that big a change, but it's the biggest change we have and is celebrated in the biggest song of the film. It's brought on by the stupidity of the parents, but of course Disney will never say, "It's the parent's fault" so, like so many other movies they kill off the parents so it's the fault of fate to have children not be adequately guarded. But the parents spent a lot of time between the trolls and their death keeping the girls apart, and forcing one of them to hide herself so completely that not even her sister would recognize her, and so forth. You can claim they're just short-sighted, or blame it on the troll's advice, but it's just not a strong setup. I feel like they could have gone in a different direction here if they wanted to toe the line on their usual "parents are good" rule. They didn't go far enough in blaming the parents to not follow that rule, but they didn't really break the rule either, since they took the parents away during a still-formative time for the girls.

Lastly, it would have been more interesting if Elsa actually became bad, or dare I say it - evil. Instead the movie merely conveys that she's running away, with bad consequences, but still cares for the people who arguably are the reason she's suffering in the first place. She only gets to "I'm free!" and never makes it to "Why should I have been made to suffer?" Perhaps she didn't have enough time to become bitter, but the fact that people were after her and attempting to kill her should have changed her mind. Wouldn't it have been more interesting is she had become a full-on villain, and her sister was able to save her (or make good on her emotional divorcement by banishing her) through what would have required significantly more effort and perseverance than the film did? But I suspect you couldn't give justice to this sort of story in such a short film.

All that said, these aren't criticisms of the film, merely different directions it could have taken that might have satisfied those who found the film less than what they were expecting. I believe the film to be fine as-is, and well worth the positive reception.

Jan 20, 2014#55

GasBandit

stienman said:
Lastly, it would have been more interesting if Elsa actually became bad, or dare I say it - evil. Instead the movie merely conveys that she's running away, with bad consequences, but still cares for the people who arguably are the reason she's suffering in the first place. She only gets to "I'm free!" and never makes it to "Why should I have been made to suffer?" Perhaps she didn't have enough time to become bitter, but the fact that people were after her and attempting to kill her should have changed her mind. Wouldn't it have been more interesting is she had become a full-on villain, and her sister was able to save her (or make good on her emotional divorcement by banishing her) through what would have required significantly more effort and perseverance than the film did? But I suspect you couldn't give justice to this sort of story in such a short film.

That was the part I was waiting for that never came. It kind of felt like the movie was rapidly heading in that direction but then the clutch gave out and it just kind of.. coasted to a stop.

Jan 20, 2014#56

SpecialKO

I totally agree that Elsa-as-evil would have been more interesting, but I suspect that some consideration of the audience probably prevented it. It's a bit problematic associating both rebellion and self-acceptance with evil in a kids movie without giving the matter a lot more screentime and risking ending up with lots of parents explaining things in the theater (your average 6-8 year-old will have issues threading that needle).

If the whole movie could have been about Elsa, it could have been done, but it would have been a substantially different movie with a different focus then. I think they made the right decision that went far enough in that direction without having to take the full step and make the movie more unwieldy.

Jan 20, 2014#57

Celt Z

stienman said:
Lastly, it would have been more interesting if Elsa actually became bad, or dare I say it - evil. Instead the movie merely conveys that she's running away, with bad consequences, but still cares for the people who arguably are the reason she's suffering in the first place. She only gets to "I'm free!" and never makes it to "Why should I have been made to suffer?" Perhaps she didn't have enough time to become bitter, but the fact that people were after her and attempting to kill her should have changed her mind. Wouldn't it have been more interesting is she had become a full-on villain, and her sister was able to save her (or make good on her emotional divorcement by banishing her) through what would have required significantly more effort and perseverance than the film did? But I suspect you couldn't give justice to this sort of story in such a short film.

You bring up an interesting point, but thinking back on it, I think the path they chose for Elsa actually makes her a more unique, and strangely, realistic character. We'd expect her to become full-on evil from those circumstances because it's become a cliche for villain origins. More often than not, if the villain doesn't start out as "evil", they become so because they've decided to lash out at those around them that made them feel isolated/unwanted/etc. They become evil out of vengeance. But Elsa continued to internalize the blame/guilt, in no small part due to short-sighted planning on the part of her parents (as you pointed out). Even when she was "free" and used her powers in a fantastic way, she still viewed them as a burden once another person was around. She couldn't bring herself to see that she had a gift rather than a shameful secret that must never be used around people. I think that this is an extremely realistic response. I've known a number of people (both in my personal life and in Halforums) that have been so emotionally affected by events of their past than no matter how much they achieve, they still doubt their own self worth. I think on one hand, it would have been good for Elsa to be empowered, even if it meant becoming evil, but on the other hand, I think making her emotionally vulnerable made her more relatable instead of cartoonishly villainous.

Jan 20, 2014#58

ncts_dodge_man

Celt Z said:
You bring up an interesting point, but thinking back on it, I think the path they chose for Elsa actually makes her a more unique, and strangely, realistic character. We'd expect her to become full-on evil from those circumstances because it's become a cliche for villain origins. More often than not, if the villain doesn't start out as "evil", they become so because they've decided to lash out at those around them that made them feel isolated/unwanted/etc. They become evil out of vengeance. But Elsa continued to internalize the blame/guilt, in no small part due to short-sighted planning on the part of her parents (as you pointed out). Even when she was "free" and used her powers in a fantastic way, she still viewed them as a burden once another person was around. She couldn't bring herself to see that she had a gift rather than a shameful secret that must never be used around people. I think that this is an extremely realistic response. I've known a number of people (both in my personal life and in Halforums) that have been so emotionally affected by events of their past than no matter how much they achieve, they still doubt their own self worth. I think on one hand, it would have been good for Elsa to be empowered, even if it meant becoming evil, but on the other hand, I think making her emotionally vulnerable made her more relatable instead of cartoonishly villainous.

I was able to see Frozen and liked it. "Let it Go" is definitely one of my new favorite songs, though I was able to see a lot of the similarities in it and Elphaba's "Bring Me Down" from Wicked (being sung by the same person helped too).

I think choosing the way they did made it more interesting - instead of going on the common-cliche route for most things (ex: Elsa: "You can't marry someone you just met" that goes against most Disney animation movies, or the above mention of Elsa becoming full-on evil that I quoted.)

Jan 20, 2014#59

Hailey Knight

stienman said:
but the reality is that it is a great movie.

It's also not a very deep story emotionally. It has a lot of emotion, there's no doubt there, but the emotions aren't very complex.

no one really changed in the movie.

But she doesn't change, not really, and she's the film's protagonist.

I really don't even need to type anything.

GasBandit said:
That was the part I was waiting for that never came. It kind of felt like the movie was rapidly heading in that direction but then the clutch gave out and it just kind of.. coasted to a stop.

Elsa's backstory is the kind that can breed a Batman villain. It felt exactly as you said, that they were going that way up to a point and then just wussed out on it. I doubt they could get a G rating had they gone that route--it would've been considered a mature theme--but like I said in the OP, it would've given more emotional strength and character dynamic to the sisters for Elsa to go anti-social "frost and ruin on you all!" and then Anna still is willing to sacrifice herself to save her sister.

I do intend to try the movie again sometime when it's on Netflix or something, but the problems steinman mentioned are still problems. In any case, I want to watch Hans's scenes pre-betrayal.

Jan 20, 2014#60

strawman

Having watched it three times, he doesn't leave a single hint, however it's obvious in hindsight. Twelve brothers, looking for a home he can call his own, it sounds like he's just echoing her, but he actually feels these things himself. It's just that he's in it for blood, and his behavior doesn't suggest that until the scene by the fire.

Jan 20, 2014#61

Charlie Don't Surf

In Elsa's palace, when he rushes the guy with the crossbow - he looks at elsa, then at the chandelier directly above her, then grabs the crossbow and points it directly at the chandelier.

Jan 20, 2014#62

Hailey Knight

Celt Z said:
You bring up an interesting point, but thinking back on it, I think the path they chose for Elsa actually makes her a more unique, and strangely, realistic character. We'd expect her to become full-on evil from those circumstances because it's become a cliche for villain origins. More often than not, if the villain doesn't start out as "evil", they become so because they've decided to lash out at those around them that made them feel isolated/unwanted/etc. They become evil out of vengeance. But Elsa continued to internalize the blame/guilt, in no small part due to short-sighted planning on the part of her parents (as you pointed out). Even when she was "free" and used her powers in a fantastic way, she still viewed them as a burden once another person was around. She couldn't bring herself to see that she had a gift rather than a shameful secret that must never be used around people. I think that this is an extremely realistic response. I've known a number of people (both in my personal life and in Halforums) that have been so emotionally affected by events of their past than no matter how much they achieve, they still doubt their own self worth. I think on one hand, it would have been good for Elsa to be empowered, even if it meant becoming evil, but on the other hand, I think making her emotionally vulnerable made her more relatable instead of cartoonishly villainous.

I think they could've had her fall and yet come back from it. Her parents may have already been expecting that considering they already had hand-enclosing manacles in the castle dungeon when the frozen landscape would've made it unlikely anyone forged them new.

It's a subversive element. Everything's leading toward Elsa being the villain for a while, but then doesn't happen. Hans seems totally legit, no weird looks to help the audience know he's going to be the bad guy later; he shows nothing until he wants to.

Looking at it more, it feels like the script was written by someone really perceptive who got partnered in writing class with someone really dense.[DOUBLEPOST=1390249399,1390249224][/DOUBLEPOST]

stienman said:
Having watched it three times, he doesn't leave a single hint, however it's obvious in hindsight. Twelve brothers, looking for a home he can call his own, it sounds like he's just echoing her, but he actually feels these things himself. It's just that he's in it for blood, and his behavior doesn't suggest that until the scene by the fire.

That's almost exactly what my wife said on the drive home from the theater.

I saw suggested elsewhere a solo reprise of "Love is an Open Door" after he makes his reveal, but instead of looking at Anna, he's looking at the throne.

Jan 20, 2014#63

Hailey Knight

Celt Z said:
.

Also, Celt Z, thank you for digging into the movie to say good about it.

I went into the movie excited, came away disappointed, analyzed to see why and found problems. I'm going to give it another chance someday, but in starting this discussion, I was curious if someone would analyze and find something I missed, something that would help me see it differently, rather than "the problems you see aren't really problems" or "well I liked it".

Jan 20, 2014#64

GasBandit

I did like how it subverted the prince charming trope.

I did like how it turned out that the act of true love came from the afflicted and counted, that I was not expecting.

I just thought it would have been better if Let It Go had gone a lot darker and angier in the final verse, and Elsa ended up being redeemed by Anna. Not a whole lot else would have had to have changed in the movie.

Jan 20, 2014#65

Hailey Knight

Is it possible to not care for a movie but really love its fandom?

Someone was messing with "Do you want to build a snowman?" and ended up with this. It's fucking creepy (and hilarious) and culls up an alternate universe where Anna freezes to death and comes back as an ice wight or something.

"Elsa, I know you're in there"

Jan 20, 2014#66

Celt Z

You're welcome! I walked away from it feeling more excited than I had after seeing a (non-Pixar) Disney movie in a long time, Enchanted and Wreck-It Ralph coming the closest. I was sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it at first, but everyone's allowed an opinion. It's not a flawless movie, but I don't think one exists. But I do like hearing other people's analysis on a film's strengths and weaknesses, especially when they're willing to hear others' interpretations also. It just gets under my skin when discussions like this become absolutes, as though there's only one "right" way to view the movie.

It's not like we're talking about steak here.

Jan 20, 2014#67

Hailey Knight

Celt Z said:
You're welcome! I walked away from it feeling more excited than I had after seeing a (non-Pixar) Disney movie in a long time, Enchanted and Wreck-It Ralph coming the closest. I was sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it at first, but everyone's allowed an opinion. It's not a flawless movie, but I don't think one exists. But I do like hearing other people's analysis on a film's strengths and weaknesses, especially when they're willing to hear others' interpretations also. It just gets under my skin when discussions like this become absolutes, as though there's only one "right" way to view the movie.

It's not like we're talking about steak here.

You did make me see the Elsa villain thing differently and with reason. My wife thought it was a good point too.

Jan 20, 2014#68

ncts_dodge_man

Zero Esc said:
Is it possible to not care for a movie but really love its fandom?

Someone was messing with "Do you want to build a snowman?" and ended up with this. It's fucking creepy (and hilarious) and culls up an alternate universe where Anna freezes to death and comes back as an ice wight or something.

"Elsa, I know you're in there"

Holy freaking creepy! It's giving me shivers - the entire music tone is so different. It definately sounds like something right out of a horror movie - like Anna's waiting outside of Elsa's door with a meat cleaver or something.

Jan 20, 2014#69

klew

Elsa bears similarities to the Hulk: she avoids people to minimize occurrences, stress brings the powers out, everyone thinks she's a monster, she escapes people wanting to kill her, and just wants to be left alone. But then, I reduced the first Thor film to half Shakespeare and half Encino Man.

Jan 20, 2014#70

Reverent-one

Zero Esc said:
I went into the movie excited, came away disappointed, analyzed to see why and found problems. I'm going to give it another chance someday, but in starting this discussion, I was curious if someone would analyze and find something I missed, something that would help me see it differently, rather than "the problems you see aren't really problems" or "well I liked it".

Sorry.

Jan 22, 2014#71

Celt Z

And speaking of Frozen... as I'm shoveling my back porch this morning, the first thing that popped into my head was "Someone must have pissed off Elsa!". The snow is up to my knees, and since I'm not short, that's a good amount of snow!

Jan 22, 2014#72

Hailey Knight

Here's a fun "the trolls are dicks" thing I read today:
Usually trolls are depicted in fantasy films as evil, but probably none of us batted an eye at their kinder depiction here because it's a Disney film, so that kind of thing happens. BUT trolls in the folklore for the northern regions where this movie takes place typically view trolls as kidnappers of children who would sometimes replace those children with changelings. Some of us assumed Kristof was the child of one of the ice harvesters during the opening song, until he mentions that it was just him and Sven until the trolls take them in. Except he's just a kid--it seems unlikely he would've been out there with tools and sled on his own. The movie never shows he and Sven having been alone when they were young; he says that, long after he's been adopted the troll who says she's going to "keep them". And it's established at the beginning that the trolls have the power to mess with memories. They could've easily made Kristof and Sven remember being alone until the trolls, even if the truth was different. Kristof's real father might have just lost track of his son out on the ice and gone searching for him, never knowing he'd been taken by trolls.

Jan 23, 2014#73

ThatNickGuy

Zero Esc said:
Is it possible to not care for a movie but really love its fandom?

Someone was messing with "Do you want to build a snowman?" and ended up with this. It's fucking creepy (and hilarious) and culls up an alternate universe where Anna freezes to death and comes back as an ice wight or something.

"Elsa, I know you're in there"

Jan 23, 2014#74

Krisken

Yeah, I dunno if I can sleep tonight after hearing that.

Jan 23, 2014#75

SpecialKO

Zero Esc said:
Is it possible to not care for a movie but really love its fandom?

Someone was messing with "Do you want to build a snowman?" and ended up with this. It's fucking creepy (and hilarious) and culls up an alternate universe where Anna freezes to death and comes back as an ice wight or something.

"Elsa, I know you're in there"

That's fucking awesome.

Jan 24, 2014#76

filmfanatic

Celt Z said:
And speaking of Frozen... as I'm shoveling my back porch this morning, the first thing that popped into my head was "Someone must have pissed off Elsa!". The snow is up to my knees, and since I'm not short, that's a good amount of snow!

Jan 24, 2014#77

Charlie Don't Surf

lol grumpy cat!!!!!

Jan 24, 2014#78

Celt Z

filmfanatic said:

That would explain so much.

Jan 25, 2014#79

evilmike

Jan 25, 2014#80

Dei

Feb 7, 2014#81

Yoshimickster

Not the best Disney flick I've seen, but I liked it and was singing "Let it go" all the way home. I agree that a lot of the songs were shoehorned in(troll song being the most forgettable) , and yeah Weaseltown guy was a red herring but I like red herrings so I'm okay with it.

Now I knew Hans was evil the moment I looked at him and thought "Oh man I'm gonna wanna punch this guy in the face the end of this aren't I?" And sure enough- ANNA PUNCHES HIM IN THE FACE! That was fun.

Feb 8, 2014#82

BananaHands

Frozen was okay. Seemed rushed. I think it would have been better if they dropped the dude with the moose and just had Hans tag along until the end with a big reveal that he's actually some character from Game of Thrones in terms to evil crap.

But I agree with @Gusto in that this was no Tangled. Tangled was amazing.

Feb 10, 2014#83

linglingface

http://io9.com/cast-of-frozen-sings-for-fans-live-and-heres-why-th-1520159957
Frozen cast sings live!
<3 Idina <3

Also, this article:
https://medium.com/disney-and-animation/7c0bbc7252ef
Someone who absolutely hated the film. Interesting perspective.

I don't think I ever gave my $0.02 about the movie...

I thought it was fun, but I don't know why everyone is going crazy over this movie. Visually, it was amazingly beautiful. I'm not crazy about 3D (I'd much rather watch a movie in 2D than 3D) but this was absolutely stunning.
The plot was alright. Olaf wasn't nearly as obnoxious as I thought he would be. I thought for sure he would ruin the entire film.
I thought it was bizarre that Kristoff never mentioned seeing Anna when she was a kid. Also weird that Anna never found out about what happened when she and Elsa were kids.
Songs were 'meh'. I LOVED "Let It Go" but the other songs were just okay. I thought the music was "Tangled" was better.
I guessed that Hans was bad, and also guessed the ending of the movie from the start. Also guessed Olaf's ending. This didn't ruin the movie for me by any means... I tend to keep guesses to myself and it's just fun when I'm right. :3 (I do the same thing with books... And actually I'm rarely correct with my guesses.)
The trolls were completely useless...
Not a bad movie by any means, and I will probably buy it at some point, but I'm just not gaga about it like most of my friends seem to be. Loving the Elsa cosplays though!

Anyway, taking Twiggy and our niece to see the movie tonight since neither has seen it, and we want to spend more time with this niece.

Feb 11, 2014#84

Bubble181

heatherling said:
http://io9.com/cast-of-frozen-sings-for-fans-live-and-heres-why-th-1520159957

The trolls were completely useless...

Hey now, this is Halforums. They're never useless, we love them all!

Mar 5, 2014#85

GasBandit

Mar 5, 2014#86

Dei

Mar 6, 2014#87

WasabiPoptart

Some of the boys in my son's class (him included) have taken to singing "Let it go! Let it go! Until the toilet overflows!"

Mar 6, 2014#88

strawman

Someone indicated they can't hear the song anymore without laughing at how well it applies to farting.

...
The wind is howling like this swirling storm inside
Couldn’t keep it in, heaven knows I tried

Don’t let them in, don’t let them see
Be the good girl you always have to be
Conceal, don’t feel, don’t let them know
Well, now they know

Let it go, let it go
Can’t hold it back anymore
Let it go, let it go
Turn away and slam the door
...

and so forth.

Mar 7, 2014#89

HCGLNS

So couple of Oscars and now over a billion that's billion with a B dollars at the box office.

Mar 7, 2014#90

GasBandit

Mar 12, 2014#91

ncts_dodge_man

Just... wow. Conspiracy Theory - Frozen turns kids gay?

Mar 12, 2014#92

Krisken

Yup, that's stupid.

Mar 12, 2014#93

ThatNickGuy

ncts_dodge_man said:
Just... wow. Conspiracy Theory - Frozen turns kids gay?

What?! We need to contact the proper authorities! Alert the media! THIS IS NOT A DRILL, PEOPLE!

:minionshout:

Bee-do! Bee-do! Bee-do! Bee-do! Bee-do! Bee-do!

Mar 12, 2014#94

Hailey Knight

ncts_dodge_man said:
Just... wow. Conspiracy Theory - Frozen turns kids gay?

Pretty sure gay kids were able to find Frozen on their own, if Tumblr is any indication.

Mar 12, 2014#95

Hailey Knight

Mar 18, 2014#96

CynicismKills

ncts_dodge_man said:
Just... wow. Conspiracy Theory - Frozen turns kids gay?

Mar 18, 2014#97

Tress

I'm going to an outdoor viewing for a charity event on Friday. I'll finally get to see what everyone has been talking about. I'm excited!

Mar 18, 2014#98

filmfanatic

TeamFourStar has gotten in on the parody bandwagon with "Do You Want to Kill a Planet?".

http://teamfourstar.com/video/want-kill-planet-frozen-parody-3/

Mar 19, 2014#99

WasabiPoptart

filmfanatic said:
TeamFourStar has gotten in on the parody bandwagon with "Do You Want to Kill a Planet?".

http://teamfourstar.com/video/want-kill-planet-frozen-parody-3/

I didn't even have to watch the video. I started laughing as soon as the still loaded.

Mar 19, 2014#100

jwhouk

Due to the fact that the local Wal-Mart (the only major retailer in my fair city) is less than three weeks away from moving to its new Supercenter facility across the way, they are completely out of copies of Frozen.

Mar 19, 2014#101

strawman

Despite the fact that it's going to turn all my boys gay, we snagged a copy of it at Target last night. They only had a handful of the blueray version left, and if we had waited until today we would likely not have been able to get one. Target added a DVD to the shrink wrap with a few extra special features. Doubt they'll be anything particularly interesting, but who knows.

Amazon still has it in stock though.

And here I am sitting in the clerks office at church, listening to a few young women singing songs from Frozen in the foyer. I'm impressed, you have to have pretty good range to sing Anna's first time in forever song and then switch to Kristoph's reindeer song...

Surprised they aren't releasing a 3D blueray version. I guess they're splitting it up so they can make the 3D fanatics pay twice? Probably something more mundane like a desire to reprocess the movie for better home 3D or something. Still, the capitalist squeeze theory appeals to me.

Mar 19, 2014#102

Zappit

Frozen is gay propaganda? Oh, fer...Honestly, if I ever get a genie, wish 1 is that that sort of willful, over dramatic ignorance causes taste buds to grow in one's anus.

Yeah, then everything is twisted. That Aslan lion that crowd likes? Encourages bestiality AND suicide. The Wizard of Oz? Atheist propaganda: Oz, a metaphor for God, is revealed as a phony. See? We can play that game, too.

Mar 19, 2014#103

Charlie Don't Surf

but Narnia is actually Christian propaganda

Mar 19, 2014#104

Zappit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
but Narnia is actually Christian propaganda

That's what C.S. Lewis WANTED you to think.

Mar 24, 2014#105

ncts_dodge_man

More Frozen (and Disney) stuff - The "Secret" 'Frozen'-'Tangled'-'Mermaid' Connection and Other Disney Conspiracy Theories

#1) I'd heard about the first part (Rapunzel/Eugene in Frozen), but not the Little Mermaid part and the part that the parents from Frozen going to the Tangled celebration does make some sense.

#2) Possible - a little out there.

#3) Again heard of, not surprising, somewhat out there, but less than #2.

Not so sure about #4 and 5, they seem a little bit more out there than #2.

Mar 24, 2014#106

WasabiPoptart

I am watching this for the 4th time in 2 weeks. Kill meeeeeeee. (I like the movie, just not this much.)

Mar 24, 2014#107

jwhouk

I've heard about #4 (the Pixar Grand Unification Theory). I'd just love to see Pixar torpedo it somehow.

Mar 25, 2014#108

Celt Z

Having Frozen in the house reminded me that I wanted to go back and update the Disney mermaids drawing on my Deviant Art page. It was one of those pieces I wanted to redo some of the old faces, and then figured since I was at it, I might as well stick in 7 more ladies that have been added to the Disney pantheon since I originally posted it.

It's also a sad reminder that I'm lucky if I get 2 hours a night to draw anymore. Simple stuff can get done over a matter of days, but ambitious stuff is going to have to be on hold for a while longer.

Mar 27, 2014#109

filmfanatic

Spoilered for size.

Mar 28, 2014#110

GasBandit

Mar 29, 2014#111

Mathias

Zero Esc said:
There's a difference between expressing it in words and saying exactly what it is. It's lazy to have the characters say "I feel this way" instead of having them act in a way that represents it. It's lazy to say "Hey audience, these characters are in love" instead of having them act in ways that make it clear they're in love.

Even musically, "there's so much fear" is a lazy lyric. Imagine if the Beauty and the Beast songs "Something There" and "Beauty and the Beast" went something like "They might love each other" and "Now they love each other" respectively.

That might not make much difference for you, but for me, the Critical Hit video nailed it when they said (paraphrasing) that if you just tell me something, I'm not feeling it. I went into Frozen expecting to have a good time and wanting to like. I don't sit there analyzing the movie while watching it or marking up a checklist. I just watch the movie. If I feel some disconnect, or don't feel anything though, it's going to sour the experience, and afterward I wonder why, and start analyzing to figure it out. Was it me? Was it the movie? A little of both?

Like I said in the OP, if I felt Frozen was a bad movie, I'd just write it off and forget about it. But I'd be enjoying one scene and disconnected the next, and it was this jarring mix of good and bad that bugged me.

Dude, have you ever been to a musical?

Mar 29, 2014#112

Mathias

ThatNickGuy said:

Mar 29, 2014#113

Mathias

[DOUBLEPOST=1396096436,1396096329][/DOUBLEPOST]

WasabiPoptart said:
I am watching this for the 4th time in 2 weeks. Kill meeeeeeee. (I like the movie, just not this much.)

I feel your pain.

Mar 29, 2014#114

Hailey Knight

Mathias said:
Dude, have you ever been to a musical?

I've seen plenty of Disney movies, if that's what you mean.

If you mean like a Broadway musical, only Sweeney Todd.

Mar 29, 2014#115

GasBandit

Mar 30, 2014#116

Celt Z

Looks like "Let It Go" is stuck in a lot of people's heads now and forever:

"Frozen" becomes highest-grossing animated film of all time

Mar 30, 2014#117

Hailey Knight

Celt Z said:
Looks like "Let It Go" is stuck in a lot of people's heads now and forever:

"Frozen" becomes highest-grossing animated film of all time

Mar 30, 2014#118

Tress

Zero Esc said:

You need to relax, Zero. Let it go. :awesome:

Mar 30, 2014#119

Ravenpoe

Zero Esc said:

I liked it.

Mar 31, 2014#120

GasBandit

Zero Esc said:

You know, I think that might have been the first gif I ever posted back on the oooooooold PvP forums.

Mar 31, 2014#121

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe said:
I liked it.

Because some people have asked, no, that is not me in that gif. It does look a lot like me, though.

Mar 31, 2014#122

Celt Z

...way to get our hopes up, 'Poe.

*zips up jeans*

Mar 31, 2014#123

Ravenpoe

Celt Z said:
...way to get our hopes up, 'Poe.

*zips up jeans*

I actually showed that gif to my mom, and she thought it was me...

I have a terrible mom.

Apr 2, 2014#124

CynicismKills

Zero Esc said:

Apr 3, 2014#125

evilmike

Kristen Bell singing "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?" live.

Apr 5, 2014#126

@Li3n

Zero Esc said:
I don't know why Kristof exists except to give Anna a man at the end, which is against the message in the movie.

Or the message is that even with access to true love from a guy, true love from a sister is just as good, maybe?

Otherwise, yeah, pacing issues with the plot.

Apr 12, 2014#127

Ravenpoe

@Li3n said:
Or the message is that even with access to true love from a guy, true love from a sister is just as good, maybe?

Otherwise, yeah, pacing issues with the plot.

It's not true love between her and Kristof. That was the point of his existence. They just met. There's an attraction, but they just met. That's why it was the bond between sisters that was true love, and broke the curse.

Yes, Anna and Kristof are together at the end, but they aren't engaged or anything. They're dating, a normal relationship, instead of the the day romances into marriage that Disney had been known for.

Apr 12, 2014#128

Bowielee

Finally got around to watching it today. Loved it to pieces.[DOUBLEPOST=1397328032,1397327970][/DOUBLEPOST]I think the fact that QP has never seen a real musical, much less like them pretty much explains exactly why he doesn't like it.

Apr 12, 2014#129

CrimsonSoul

I made the ringtone when my wife calls "I mean it's crazy, what, we finish each others, sandehiches" part of the song and my normal ring tones do you wanna build a snowman

Apr 12, 2014#130

Hailey Knight

Bowielee said:
Finally got around to watching it today. Loved it to pieces.[DOUBLEPOST=1397328032,1397327970][/DOUBLEPOST]I think the fact that QP has never seen a real musical, much less like them pretty much explains exactly why he doesn't like it.

Perhaps? I don't know; I'm not going to put any more time towards Frozen except for reposting funny shit from the fans.

Like this coloring/activity book page:

Apr 14, 2014#131

evilmike

How it Should Have Ended has a pretty unique take on Frozen:

Apr 14, 2014#132

Hailey Knight

Usually I don't like when they end with

mashing two unrelated properties together

but this is one that worked.

Apr 15, 2014#133

klew

CrimsonSoul said:
I made the ringtone when my wife calls "I mean it's crazy, what, we finish each others, sandehiches" part of the song and my normal ring tones do you wanna build a snowman

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/blogs/frozens_shout_outs_to_arrested_development_in_gif_form-2013-12

Apr 20, 2014#134

AshburnerX

Apr 21, 2014#135

filmfanatic

Apr 21, 2014#136

bhamv3

I finally watched Frozen for the first time on the flight from Taiwan to London.

Then I watched it a second time. Then a third.

Then I watched it a fourth time on the way back.

Guys, I think I might like this movie.

Anyway, some thoughts:

1. I agree with a lot of the criticisms posted in this thread, actually. I think Frozen had some plot problems that could've been fixed with just a few additional lines and scenes. It would've added maybe five or ten minutes to the movie in total, which I don't think is a huge amount, and would've made everything fit together much better.

2. Jonathan Groff's horribly wasted in this movie. He gets one song, during which half his lines are done in a goofy voice. This guy was awesome on Glee and in Spring Awakening, it's a pity they didn't use him more.

3. Idina Menzel needs to do more emotion-filled duets. Seriously, her duets from Rent, Wicked, Glee, and Frozen all gave me tinglies in my nether bits.

Apr 22, 2014#137

Covar

Still haven't seen the movie, but saw this on a podcast, thought people might like it.

Apr 22, 2014#138

Hailey Knight

bhamv3 said:
I finally watched Frozen for the first time on the flight from Taiwan to London.

Then I watched it a second time. Then a third.

Then I watched it a fourth time on the way back.

Guys, I think I might like this movie.

Anyway, some thoughts:

1. I agree with a lot of the criticisms posted in this thread, actually. I think Frozen had some plot problems that could've been fixed with just a few additional lines and scenes. It would've added maybe five or ten minutes to the movie in total, which I don't think is a huge amount, and would've made everything fit together much better.

2. Jonathan Groff's horribly wasted in this movie. He gets one song, during which half his lines are done in a goofy voice. This guy was awesome on Glee and in Spring Awakening, it's a pity they didn't use him more.

3. Idina Menzel needs to do more emotion-filled duets. Seriously, her duets from Rent, Wicked, Glee, and Frozen all gave me tinglies in my nether bits.

I think a lot of the plot problems were probably caused by something I discovered only recently, but apparently other people have known for months: originally, Elsa was going to be the villain after all. Producers ordered a story change upon hearing "Let It Go" and decided the song was too positive for a villain. I won't get into everything wrong-headed about changing a story for a song's sake or whether antagonists should be allowed to have layers and dimensions in children's movies, but the fact of this change tells me that they had to do a lot of editing and messing around, creating narratives bumps and stutters that wouldn't have existed if they'd spent that time tidying their original idea instead of having to flex it into a new one.

Apr 22, 2014#139

filmfanatic

Covar said:
Still haven't seen the movie, but saw this on a podcast, thought people might like it.

Anna is the one who knocks.

Apr 25, 2014#140

@Li3n

Ravenpoe said:
It's not true love between her and Kristof. That was the point of his existence. They just met. There's an attraction, but they just met. That's why it was the bond between sisters that was true love, and broke the curse.

Yes, Anna and Kristof are together at the end, but they aren't engaged or anything. They're dating, a normal relationship, instead of the the day romances into marriage that Disney had been known for.

Someone doesn't believe in love at first hike to find missing ice powered sister here....

But anyway, that works too, he's there to emphasise the point about sisterly love (as in Anna had the possibility of the "classic Disney romance" etc.).

Apr 28, 2014#141

bhamv3

Spoiled for size and possible mild Frozen spoiler.

do_you_want_to_build_a_snowman__by_tomperwomper-d75ap10.jpg

May 8, 2014#142

WasabiPoptart

May 8, 2014#143

Bowielee

bhamv3 said:
3. Idina Menzel needs to do more emotion-filled duets. Seriously, her duets from Rent, Wicked, Glee, and Frozen all gave me tinglies in my nether bits.

Take Me or Leave Me is probably my favorite song from Rent.

May 8, 2014#144

GasBandit

May 8, 2014#145

bhamv3

GasBandit said:

Well, since it's a classroom, presumably they'll have a chance to go Frozen-free soon.

You know, because no one will be there IN SUUUUMEEEERRRRRR!

May 13, 2014#146

GasBandit

May 13, 2014#147

Celt Z

I don't know if anyone watches Once Upon a Time (to be honest, I've only seen 2 episodes), but this was the teaser ending the other night. (You may want to skip ahead to 1:46)

May 13, 2014#148

Hailey Knight

Celt Z said:
I don't know if anyone watches Once Upon a Time (to be honest, I've only seen 2 episodes), but this was the teaser ending the other night. (You may want to skip ahead to 1:46)

Bleeeeeeehhhhhhh.

May 13, 2014#149

filmfanatic

Celt Z said:
I don't know if anyone watches Once Upon a Time (to be honest, I've only seen 2 episodes), but this was the teaser ending the other night. (You may want to skip ahead to 1:46)

Do you want a make a quick buck,
Having Elsa on TV?
We can merchandise,
And profitize,
with the Frozen demography!

May 13, 2014#150

Ravenpoe

Celt Z said:
I don't know if anyone watches Once Upon a Time (to be honest, I've only seen 2 episodes), but this was the teaser ending the other night. (You may want to skip ahead to 1:46)

Well, that looks awful.

May 13, 2014#151

Hailey Knight

Ravenpoe said:
Well, that looks awful.

No, no, it may seem like Disney is bringing Frozen into Once Upon a Time in an awkward and money-grabbing decision, but they're actually bringing Darkwing Duck's universe in, starting oddly enough with the Liquidator.

May 13, 2014#152

Celt Z

Ravenpoe said:
Well, that looks awful.

From what I understand, the special fx on OUAT usually look early-90's quality, not just this particular instance. But given the popularity of Frozen and the show is made to showcase Disney's properties? They'd be stupid NOT to bring her in.

May 13, 2014#153

bhamv3

GasBandit said:

True story: I actually modeled my latest Skyrim character on Elsa. A Breton destruction mage specializing in ice magic, with platinum blonde hair.

I call my Frost Atronach "Marshmallow".

(And then I joined the vampires in Castle Volkihar, so now I have glowy eyes, which totally doesn't fit Elsa, but hey, it's a game)

May 24, 2014#154

GasBandit

May 26, 2014#155

Jay

I'm far more into Pixar movies than I ever was in Disney movies simply because I'm not a huge fan of that pointless singing and the crutch of "true love" present in each and every movie.

I finally managed to watch it a few nights ago with some lady friends and let me just say... OVERRATED!

I've probably heard Adele Dazeem's "Let it Go" probably 200+ times (twice a day) and I actually really like it. Thankfully!!! It was probably the best song in this movie simply because it actually felt right. It was strong, was sung perfectly and ACTUALLY CARRIED THE PLOT FORWARD. I know I'm not a fan of all the singing but honestly can someone please tell Disney you shouldn't put 4 song within the first 30 minutes of their animation films? The snowman felt right but the others? WTF!

MY NAME IS BLA BLA AND THIS IS MY SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG.

Jesus Christ.

The animation and visuals were beautiful though were better in Wreck it Ralph and Rapunzel. The villain swerve was done very well and the climax of the movie was solid. Far better than the extremely predictable Disney movies of past.

The old crutches were still there but let's be honest, they will never be able to provide the varied and awesome experiences each and every Pixar movie can bring. It's sad considering they took a huge step front with Wreck it Ralph but ughhhhhhh..... I guess the the suits at Disney love the predictability of good ol' green these Frozen type of movies bring.

I liked it. But I didn't love it.

The storyline didn't feel cohesive, Olaf was mostly fucking annoying (though he had a few nice zingers) and most of the songs were bad.

@Far from it.

If the last 3 movies are Rap, Frozen and WIR I'd place them WIR > Rap > Frozen

May 26, 2014#156

Cajungal

@GasBandit I love that pic

But I'd rather they sing something from Frozen than some of the other crap I have to hear. It's been a good year for music in the classroom, actually. My 4th graders voted on "We Are the Champions" for an experiment that required a few bars of music.

May 26, 2014#157

GasBandit

Really, when I saw it I thought it was just an ok kids movie. Not intolerable to sit through (and I can tell you there is some intolerable crap out there for kids). I can understand how it'd be ruined by hype for someone just now watching it though.

My best friend's wife, though, she hates it. So much. It's all their 4 year old daughter ever wants to watch.

May 26, 2014#158

Cajungal

Sure, if I had to see it every day I think if hate it too. My sister had to watch it a dozen times over a weekend with her younger daughter a few weeks back.

May 26, 2014#159

Bowielee

Jay said:
I've probably heard Adele Dazeem's "Let it Go" probably 200+ times (twice a day) and I actually really like it.

Not sure if you're being cute, if you actually think that's her name, or if you're secretly John Travolta.

May 26, 2014#160

Jay

Bowielee said:
Not sure if you're being cute, if you actually think that's her name, or if you're secretly John Travolta.

May 26, 2014#161

Hailey Knight

Jay said:
The storyline didn't feel cohesive

Thank you.

May 27, 2014#162

WasabiPoptart

GasBandit said:
It's all their 4 year old daughter ever wants to watch.

I am there with your friend's wife. It's an ok movie until you see it for the 50th time and have listened to the soundtrack on repeat, plus constant singing of the three main songs (Let It Go, For the First Time in Forever, and Do You Want to Build A Snowman). Then you start wishing you could go on a mass killing spree in Arendelle.

May 27, 2014#163

Shakey

WasabiPoptart said:
I am there with your friend's wife. It's an ok movie until you see it for the 50th time and have listened to the soundtrack on repeat, plus constant singing of the three main songs (Let It Go, For the First Time in Forever, and the reprise of For the First Time...). Then you start wishing you could go on a mass killing spree in Arendelle.

I've learned to never speak the words "Let it go" ever again. It always ends with a 9 year old singing that song.

Jun 4, 2014#164

Cheesy1

Jun 4, 2014#165

bhamv3

Cheesy1 said:

Did they get hit by a copyright infringement suit or something?

Jun 4, 2014#166

Hailey Knight

"That other song is gone"

I'd say yes.

Jun 5, 2014#167

GasBandit

Woman is divorcing her husband because he doesn’t like Frozen.

Jun 5, 2014#168

Jay

Woman is making the man a favor.

6 years though? Wow. That marriage must have suuuucked.[DOUBLEPOST=1401985480,1401985401][/DOUBLEPOST]And and LOL Japan.

Now I understand.

Jun 5, 2014#169

Ravenpoe

GasBandit said:
Woman is divorcing her husband because he doesn’t like Frozen.

@Zero Esc?

Jun 5, 2014#170

Hailey Knight

Ravenpoe said:
@Zero Esc?

Not me--I got a cool wife who didn't think it was that good either.

Jun 12, 2014#171

ThatNickGuy

This oughta make @Zero Esc happy.

Jun 12, 2014#172

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
This oughta make @Zero Esc happy.

It amused me, but I won't be happy until ~~we have every boy in America between the ages of six and sixteen wearing a glove and swinging a bat.~~ people see this movie is mediocre. Maybe after their kids play it for a 60th time.

Jun 13, 2014#173

GasBandit

Winter is coming.

Jun 22, 2014#174

evilmike

Jul 3, 2014#175

jwhouk

Sat down and watched it, in its entirety.

I'm somewhat glad that I knew the plot twist, and about other parts of the movie, but there's just one thing that bothered me about it:

There wasn't enough dialogue. I mean, you don't watch someone grow up by singing the same song three times. And it seems like more people would remember things from the past, outside of Elsa.

Yeah, we have the earworm of a tune as a lynchpin for the whole movie - but compared to other Disney movies, of more classic vintage? It stunk.

Oh, and there were a few times during that little dance sequence with Anna during the coronation that I could have sworn I was watching a Christmas stop-motion special.

Sep 5, 2014#176

bhamv3

Sep 5, 2014#177

Hailey Knight

So that's the real reason they locked her away.

Sep 5, 2014#178

tegid

bhamv3 said:
View attachment 15889

I liked that but:
-Why doesn't she have eyebrows?
-Why the hell did her irises turn white without the makeuuuuuuuuuuup :eek:

Sep 5, 2014#179

Jay

It'd like to see her with eyebrows and proper irises as well

Sep 5, 2014#180

strawman

tegid said:
I liked that but:
-Why doesn't she have eyebrows?
-Why the hell did her irises turn white without the makeuuuuuuuuuuup

Blonde hair --> very light eyebrows against pale skin

Regarding the irises, I think they decided to assume she wears contacts to produce unusually large irises. The color in the iris nearly disappears in low light where the iris all the way open.

I think it would have been closer to reality to nearly close the iris, and have the color moved in and smaller.

But that's not an issue of makeup, it's an issue of "anime eyes" so probably shouldn't be "fixed" in a makeup on,y comparison.

Sep 5, 2014#181

GasBandit

In addition to light hair color on light skin, a lot of gals who pencil on their eyebrows also pluck their real eyebrows to near bare, for better pencilling, so that the #nomakeup shots look like their brow is bald.

Dec 8, 2014#182

PatrThom

Ok, I'm posting it.

--Patrick

Dec 8, 2014#183

Dave

...Wow...

Had he tried to sing it I'd be more impressed. And that dude following him around with the two spray cans of snow? Ridiculous.

Dec 8, 2014#184

PatrThom

Dave said:
that dude following him around with the two spray cans of snow?

You must mean "Olaf."

--Patrick

Aug 1, 2015#185

evilmike

Zero Esc said:
Elsa's backstory is the kind that can breed a Batman villain. It felt exactly as you said, that they were going that way up to a point and then just wussed out on it. I doubt they could get a G rating had they gone that route--it would've been considered a mature theme--but like I said in the OP, it would've given more emotional strength and character dynamic to the sisters for Elsa to go anti-social "frost and ruin on you all!" and then Anna still is willing to sacrifice herself to save her sister.

Aug 1, 2015#186

@Li3n

tegid said:
-Why doesn't she have eyebrows?

Because she plucked them, and they're actually just make-up... as that's supposed to be attractive for some reason...

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