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Congress Holds Anti-Vaccination Hearings

Dec 4, 2012#1

SpecialKO

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/12/03/congress-holds-an-anti-vaccination-hearing/

And so it continues....

This kind of thing makes me fear for friends with small children.

Dec 4, 2012#2

Gared

Jesus Fucking Christ. Again?! We have to go through this bullshit again!? All of this throw-science-out-the-window bullshit, again!? No fucking wonder our country is a giant pile of shit right now. Fuck politicians of every affiliation. Quit stirring shit up that doesn't even make any fucking sense and just do your god-damn jobs, and get some important shit done for once. Fuck!

Dec 4, 2012#3

D

Dubyamn

Read this as "Congress hold an anti-Vatican hearing"

I was hopeful I won't lie.

Course then I read the article and my heart sank. For fucks sake why the hell does this keep coming up?

Dec 4, 2012#4

Gared

Stupidity?

Dec 4, 2012#5

Krisken

What, no one on the forums wants to marginalize this or defend it? I am disappointed.

Dec 4, 2012#6

Frank

It's nigh indefensible.

Dec 4, 2012#7

Eriol

I had this little bitty small hope that it was "why the fuck don't we have any vaccinations for any new major diseases in the last number of decades? Where has our money been going?" But that was for about a microsecond. Then my brain engaged and figured it was this. Too bad.

That said, I saw an article last week about some promising research on the Flu, on having a vaccine that will work perpetually, against all strains. That was nice to see, as that kills a fuckton of people every year. Mostly the old and infirm, but it's still a huge killer. Strangely, last year (or whenever) with all the bird flu scare, it kept down the regular flu, and thus old people mortality went way down.

Dec 4, 2012#8

GasBandit

I oppose vaccinations. DIE, you FILTH.

Dec 4, 2012#9

Dei

I have long given up even arguing with/about idiots and their anti-vax preaching. Too much time spent on parenting boards I guess.

Dec 4, 2012#10

GasBandit

Dec 4, 2012#11

Frank

When fucking polio makes a comeback, I hope Jenny McCarthy is crucified.

Dec 4, 2012#12

Dei

So help me god, if my vaccinated kids get sick from some unvaccinated kid, I may flip some shit. A month ago there was apparently a kid at school with Whooping Cough. It angers me so much because while theoretically you need to have vaccinations to go to public school, all I have to do is SIGN A WAIVER ON MY OWN, and that requirement is gone. It is the biggest BS ever.

The only exception I make is for kids who physically cannot vaccinate. But that's all the more reason you shouldn't be able to opt out of them at random.

If you don't want to vax your kids, homeschool or something.

Dec 4, 2012#13

Azurephoenix

Frank said:
When fucking polio makes a comeback, I hope Jenny McCarthy is crucified.

Man, polio is one of those ones that terrifies the shit out of me. Have people not seen what it can actually do to the human body? Hooray for crippling deformities!

Friggin anti-vaxxers... I mean, there's a big difference between you not getting a flu shot and not getting your polio vaccination. Why are people so stupid?

Dec 4, 2012#14

Eriol

Dei said:
So help me god, if my vaccinated kids get sick from some unvaccinated kid, I may flip some shit.

I dont mean this too flippantly, but how exactly would that happen? If your kids are vaccinated, they're good. If they're not... aren't they the problem you're flipping out about?

Dec 4, 2012#15

strawman

Eriol said:
I dont mean this too flippantly, but how exactly would that happen? If your kids are vaccinated, they're good. If they're not... aren't they the problem you're flipping out about?

Vaccines are imperfect. Some significant percentage of those vaccinated (I'm thinking 2-5%) can still contract the disease. Only be vaccinating everyone do we have a chance of keeping it at bay, because enough people are still susceptible, even vaccinated, that an outbreak could be serious.

This may be lower since we've developed better vaccines, and vaccinate people with a course of more than one vaccination (children will typically be vaccinated against most diseases 2 or more times before they go to school over three years or so).

Still, vaccinations don't guarantee immunity. Even when it does work, when exposed to it you are infected and it takes some time for the immune system to kick in. During this time you can infect others and you may still suffer the early effects of it before the immune system catches up. It prevents death and most long term consequences, but it can still cause damage.

Vaccines only work when the whole population is vaccinated.

Dec 4, 2012#16

Azurephoenix

stienman said:
Vaccines only work when the whole population is vaccinated.

Actually that's not entirely accurate. Vaccines generally work as intended once the herd immunity threshold has been met. If they only worked if the whole population was vaccinated then they would never work would they?

Dec 4, 2012#17

MindDetective

ABout 85% of the population for many diseases: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Dec 4, 2012#18

Espy

BUT IF MY KIDS JUST EAT VEGGIES AND WEAR ORGANIC CLOTHES THEY WON'T HAVE TO GET VACCINES FULL OF DEAD BABIES AND METAL. :Leyla:

Dec 4, 2012#19

blotsfan

Eh, maybe the government will come out of this declaring "there is no tie between vaccinations and autism. If you think there is, you're a moron. Have a good day."

Dec 4, 2012#20

strawman

The drug companies are salivating at the prospect of being able to develop and patent "autism free" vaccines, and have the government ban the old kind so everyone's vaccination costs go up by 1200%.

There may be more at play than a few nut cases who speak more loudly than scientists.

Dec 4, 2012#21

blotsfan

stienman said:
The drug companies are salivating at the prospect of being able to develop and patent "autism free" vaccines, and have the government ban the old kind so everyone's vaccination costs go up by 1200%.

Hmmmm...that sounds familiar.

Dec 4, 2012#22

Krisken

blotsfan said:
Eh, maybe the government will come out of this declaring "there is no tie between vaccinations and autism. If you think there is, you're a moron. Have a good day."

But then it can't be a political football to sway public opinion. Taking a unified stance is unlikely, no matter how obvious the result should be.

Dec 4, 2012#23

drifter

stienman said:
The drug companies are salivating at the prospect of being able to develop and patent "autism free" vaccines, and have the government ban the old kind so everyone's vaccination costs go up by 1200%.

There may be more at play than a few nut cases who speak more loudly than scientists.

I thought companies had mostly abandoned thimerosal? Or are they blaming something else in vaccines now?

Dec 4, 2012#24

strawman

drifter said:
I thought companies had mostly abandoned thimerosal? Or are they blaming something else in vaccines now?

The drug companies change the vaccines in a multitude of ways every decade to keep prices high. Business as usual, but now they can claim they are doing it for the public good if they want to.

I dunno, I'm not actually much into cynical conspiracy theories, but if there's profit to be made, capitalism often ensures someone makes that profit.

Dec 4, 2012#25

Gared

drifter said:
I thought companies had mostly abandoned thimerosal? Or are they blaming something else in vaccines now?

No. Sadly, no. They're still blaming thimerosal. It's like these congressmen (and potentially congresswomen, I didn't read the whole thing because I was too pissed off) just slept through the last however many years it's been since the last time people were up in arms about thimerosal, and woke up this week demanding to know why nothing is being done about this horrible, horrible plague on our society.

Dec 5, 2012#26

Krisken

Vaccines are taking our jobs.

Dec 5, 2012#27

bhamv3

Vaccines are weakening traditional marriage.

Dec 5, 2012#28

Tress

If we vaccinate our children, the terrorists win.

Dec 5, 2012#29

TommiR

Krisken said:
What, no one on the forums wants to marginalize this or defend it? I am disappointed.

A bit too hard to find an angle that can be made to work.

Dec 5, 2012#30

North_Ranger

It's shit like this that makes me wonder if every US politician has to go through a mandatory lobotomy before taking office. Goddammit, those anti-vac people are making some of the dipshittiest politicians over here look reasonable.

Dec 5, 2012#31

SpecialKO

The fact that they can spew such complete shit and get away with it is sad, sad commentary on the state of science in American public discourse.

Dec 5, 2012#32

Covar

TommiR said:
A bit too hard to find an angle that can be made to work.

They're trying to look into the concerns of their constituents? That's all I got. Of course that also implies that they actually care what their voters think and consider themselves as public servants instead of rulers. So instead I'm just going to assume that Congress is just doing their usual harrumphing to look like they're useful.

Dec 5, 2012#33

strawman

TommiR said:
A bit too hard to find an angle that can be made to work.

The medical value of vaccination is hard to argue against. We're talking millions of deaths prevented per year because we've controlled or eliminated nearly a dozen deadly and debilitating diseases.

Still, the trade off is that it can result in several deaths per year due to the vaccine itself, and the vaccines, as safe as they are, have acceptable side effects and problems that affect a small portion of the population.

The only thing, though, that people can really say against vaccines in general right now, since there's little scientific evidence to support them otherwise, is that they don't believe the government should be able to medicate them against their will. If the government had that power, they might as well get back into sterilizing people with bad genes, and get rid of all the genetic diseases as well.

Dec 5, 2012#34

North_Ranger

stienman said:
The medical value of vaccination is hard to argue against. We're talking millions of deaths prevented per year because we've controlled or eliminated nearly a dozen deadly and debilitating diseases.

Still, the trade off is that it can result in several deaths per year due to the vaccine itself, and the vaccines, as safe as they are, have acceptable side effects and problems that affect a small portion of the population.

The only thing, though, that people can really say against vaccines in general right now, since there's little scientific evidence to support them otherwise, is that they don't believe the government should be able to medicate them against their will. If the government had that power, they might as well get back into sterilizing people with bad genes, and get rid of all the genetic diseases as well.

Is it an American thing to assume that if you* allow government to do something, they will immediately run with it and do absurdly evil things with it - like some kind of a vampire quarterback?

*you as in the passive tense, not you as in stienman the man with 17.6 children.

Dec 5, 2012#35

strawman

North_Ranger said:
Is it an American thing to assume that if you allow government to do something, they will immediately run with it and do absurdly evil things with it - like some kind of a vampire quarterback?

Well, we don't hold exclusive rights, but we are the major importer of the slippery slope argument, and as such we get a significant discount from suppliers, which means we use it all the more.

Like gas.

Dec 5, 2012#36

SpecialKO

The realisation that we buy slippery slopes from Walmart and Costco, like everything else, explains a lot.

Dec 5, 2012#37

GasBandit

It is an american thing to do that, because those sort of abuses were exactly what made us have to revolt in the first place, and even then there was a debate about whether it was an improvement to trade 1 tyrant 1000 miles away for 1000 tyrants 1 mile away. Unfortunately, time and the education system (under federal oversight, of course) have dulled the majority's sense of individual responsibility such that your average american doesn't actually care about liberty, or thinks it means the freedom to choose which reality TV program to watch after they get home from their drudgery.

Dec 5, 2012#38

strawman

GasBandit said:
It is an american thing to do that, because those sort of abuses were exactly what made us have to revolt in the first place

Pretty much. "Give me liberty or give me death" is one way of saying that absolutely no encroachment on our liberty is allowable.

Dec 5, 2012#39

MindDetective

GasBandit said:
Unfortunately, time and the education system (under federal oversight, of course) have dulled the majority's sense of individual responsibility such that your average american doesn't actually care about liberty, or thinks it means the freedom to choose which reality TV program to watch after they get home from their drudgery.

You are itching at the experimental psychologist in me (which is admittedly a pretty easy target to itch). You present a nice hypothesis, but there are many, many, many other potential factors that could account for any observed decline in sense of personal responsibility (of course, citation needed. Do you have a longitudinal, cross-sectional, or any kind of generational comparison to demonstrate this?) That's not to say that you're wrong, just that you present a causal relationship with basically your opinion as the supporting evidence for it, meaning all it is at the present time is a hypothesis, ripe for the falsifying.

Dec 5, 2012#40

sixpackshaker

Then again there are some real horror stories that have happened in American Medical History.

Dec 5, 2012#41

North_Ranger

GasBandit said:
It is an american thing to do that, because those sort of abuses were exactly what made us have to revolt in the first place, and even then there was a debate about whether it was an improvement to trade 1 tyrant 1000 miles away for 1000 tyrants 1 mile away. Unfortunately, time and the education system (under federal oversight, of course) have dulled the majority's sense of individual responsibility such that your average american doesn't actually care about liberty, or thinks it means the freedom to choose which reality TV program to watch after they get home from their drudgery.

Wow, Mr Ewok... You have no slippery slope, you just frickin' dive into a pool made of Founding Fathers, paranoia and Fox News.

...

I wonder if anyone could draw that?

Dec 5, 2012#42

GasBandit

You'd be hard pressed to find a control group to test the hypothesis, but it's openly acknowledged that the US educational system was deliberately created in such a manner as to create docile workers, not beings of thought and intelligence.

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks." -Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, in a speech to businessmen, and from an address to The New York City High School Teachers Association, Jan. 9th, 1909.

"The children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone would be interdependent." -John Dewey

"Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life, because they're not tempted to think about any other role."
-William Torrey Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889-1906.

Dec 5, 2012#43

Gared

North_Ranger said:
Wow, Mr Ewok... You have no slippery slope, you just frickin' dive into a pool made of Founding Fathers, paranoia and Fox News.

...

I wonder if anyone could draw that?

I'd pay to see that drawing. I wouldn't pay much, but I would pay to see it.

Dec 5, 2012#44

Dei

GasBandit said:
You'd be hard pressed to find a control group to test the hypothesis, but it's openly acknowledged that the US educational system was deliberately created in such a manner as to create docile workers, not beings of thought and intelligence.

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks." -Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, in a speech to businessmen, and from an address to The New York City High School Teachers Association, Jan. 9th, 1909.

"The children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone would be interdependent." -John Dewey

"Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life, because they're not tempted to think about any other role."
-William Torrey Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889-1906.

For the most part, that is only true of certain public schools these days. It's all about where you live, in a socio-economic sense at least.

Dec 5, 2012#45

GasBandit

North_Ranger said:
Wow, Mr Ewok... You have no slippery slope, you just frickin' dive into a pool made of Founding Fathers, paranoia and Fox News.

...

I wonder if anyone could draw that?

I wouldn't expect you to understand, you have not a single independently-motivated bone in your body, having never had to spend a single day exposed to actual liberty, being a serf in a nordic welfare country. Frankly, I wouldn't even classify you as human... more some kind of pet.

Dec 5, 2012#46

Gared

Wow... GB's showin' his fangs today.

Dec 5, 2012#47

GasBandit

Dei said:
For the most part, that is only true of ~~certain~~ public schools these days. It's all about where you live, in a socio-economic sense at least.

FTFY. Yes, there are good private schools out there, but they cost money to go to, and the teachers unions are doing their utmost to block their precious drone larva from being able to attend.

Dec 5, 2012#48

Gared

GasBandit said:
FTFY. Yes, there are good private schools out there, but they cost money to go to, and the teachers unions are doing their utmost to block their precious drone larva from being able to attend.

How do charter schools factor in?

Dec 5, 2012#49

strawman

Our current educational system does not reflect the tenets and beliefs of leaders from a century ago. I require more proof than quotes from people who died a century ago - nearly half our nation's history ago.

Dec 5, 2012#50

North_Ranger

Gared said:
Wow... GB's showin' his fangs today.

Better that than some thigh.

GasBandit said:
I wouldn't expect you to understand, you have not a single independently-motivated bone in your body, having never had to spend a single day exposed to actual liberty, being a serf in a nordic welfare country. Frankly, I wouldn't even classify you as human... more some kind of pet.

... says the slave of a self-promoting national holy cow mythology used to justify anything and everything.

*drops the mic*

Dec 5, 2012#51

MindDetective

GasBandit said:
You'd be hard pressed to find a control group to test the hypothesis, but it's openly acknowledged that the US educational system was deliberately created in such a manner as to create docile workers, not beings of thought and intelligence.

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks." -Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, in a speech to businessmen, and from an address to The New York City High School Teachers Association, Jan. 9th, 1909.

"The children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone would be interdependent." -John Dewey

"Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life, because they're not tempted to think about any other role."
-William Torrey Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889-1906.

You can show a trend, at least, and identify the factors that highly relevant to predicting that decline. You can rule OUT variables and you can identify precedence of the variables. Perhaps the education system is a RESULT of a decline in personal responsibility, for example.

I'm sure there are plenty of quotable people (even *gasp* Democrats!) that would have completely counter statements to those you presented.

Dec 5, 2012#52

Dei

GasBandit said:
FTFY. Yes, there are good private schools out there, but they cost money to go to, and the teachers unions are doing their utmost to block their precious drone larva from being able to attend.

GasBandit said:
You'd be hard pressed to find a control group to test the hypothesis, but it's openly acknowledged that the US educational system was deliberately created in such a manner as to create docile workers, not beings of thought and intelligence.

"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks." -Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, in a speech to businessmen, and from an address to The New York City High School Teachers Association, Jan. 9th, 1909.

"The children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone would be interdependent." -John Dewey

"Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life, because they're not tempted to think about any other role."
-William Torrey Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889-1906.

No you didn't fix shit. Public schools in higher income areas are actually pretty well rounded and have a lot of learning chances. There are also charter schools, which are *also* public schools, just not districted and parents can choose to send their kids there on the same dime. You can easily find public schools that are just as good as private schools, you just have to look around/not live in the ghetto.

Dec 5, 2012#53

GasBandit

Gared said:
How do charter schools factor in?

A mixed bag. A better chance on average I'd say of a kid actually learning to think than attending a PS#, at least.

stienman said:
Our current educational system does not reflect the tenets and beliefs of leaders from a century ago. I require more proof than quotes from people who died a century ago - nearly half our nation's history ago.

Oh, and have we reinvented the educational system since then? For your next recreational reading, I suggest you pick up a book by John Taylor Gatto, particularly The Underground History of American Education, which is available in its entirety online to read for free. Gatto was a teacher for 30 years, and was New York City's teacher of the year for 3 years straight 89-91, when he quit, publishing his resignation letter in the wall street journal, saying he no longer wanted to "hurt kids for a living."[DOUBLEPOST=1354738049][/DOUBLEPOST]

North_Ranger said:
... says the slave of a self-promoting national holy cow mythology used to justify anything and everything.

*drops the mic*

Get back to me when you live in a real country which has a claim to fame other than being a nazi collaborator.

(picks the mic up, dusts it off, and returns it to its padded case because, as a capitalist, he knows the value of things)

Dec 5, 2012#54

North_Ranger

GasBandit said:
Get back to me when you live in a real country which has a claim to fame other than being a nazi collaborator.

(picks the mic up, dusts it off, and returns it to its padded case because, as a capitalist, he knows the value of things)

Pot calling the kettle the colour of the people whom your country considered property.

Also, historically incorrect. But then again, this whole thread started with a group of people who have an aversion to facts.

*tips his hat and prepares to celebrate tomorrow's independence day in his own fashion*

Dec 5, 2012#55

GasBandit

North_Ranger said:
Pot calling the kettle the colour of the people whom your country considered property.

Also, historically incorrect. But then again, this whole thread started with a group of people who have an aversion to facts.

*tips his hat and prepares to celebrate tomorrow's independence day in his own fashion*

By suckling at the government teat, no doubt. Psf, all it took was a few vodka-soaked slavs to send you hiding in hitler's skirts, and you compare that to slavery? Which one of those happened in living memory again?

Dec 5, 2012#56

Krisken

This is the most infantile discussion on Halforums in a long time.

For no reason, here is an image of Jon Stewart watching Stalin have sex with an eagle.

Dec 5, 2012#57

GasBandit

Hey, when you turn the key, you better be ready to go to town.

Dec 5, 2012#58

Krisken

Except you're not arguing about the validity of the vaccines, you're just throwing insults at each other. That's not even close to why I 'turned the key'.

Dec 5, 2012#59

Dave

So, GB, who pissed in your Wheaties today? You know that the money you lost in the Halforums Stock Exchange isn't real, right? SO dial down the vitriol a bit and take a deep breath or two.

Dec 5, 2012#60

GasBandit

Dave said:
So, GB, who pissed in your Wheaties today? You know that the money you lost in the Halforums Stock Exchange isn't real, right? SO dial down the vitriol a bit and take a deep breath or two.

THAT WAS MY FAVORITE THIRTEEN DOLLARS AND FOURTEEN CENTS, and don't you marginalize it. You monster.

Dec 5, 2012#61

Krisken

Capitalism can be cruel.

Dec 5, 2012#62

GasBandit

Krisken said:
Except you're not arguing about the validity of the vaccines, you're just throwing insults at each other. That's not even close to why I 'turned the key'.

You didn't turn the key. He did. And we probably agree about the vaccines. All of us.

But like all threads around here, this one veered off a little, as so often happens when someone asks "why." And then someone casts aspersions on another poster, and then it's off to the races.

Dec 5, 2012#63

Krisken

I think you're making something personal which didn't need to be. Yeah, we veer, but when it becomes a flag waving moronathon, it's probably time to put on our adult pants, step back, and let it go.

Dec 5, 2012#64

GasBandit

Krisken said:
I think you're making something personal which didn't need to be. Yeah, we veer, but when it becomes a flag waving moronathon, it's probably time to put on our adult pants, step back, and let it go.

I just wanted to see if I could get him to cuss at me in his hilarious middle-earth language again.

Dec 5, 2012#65

Dave

I missed the moronothon? Damn! That's my best event!

Dec 5, 2012#66

Espy

So how about those evil vaccines making all our kids sick huh guys?

Dec 5, 2012#67

GasBandit

Dave said:
I missed the moronothon? Damn! That's my best event!

They made late nights on MTV worthwhile.

Dec 5, 2012#68

Dei

Espy said:
So how about those evil vaccines making all our kids sick huh guys?

Dec 5, 2012#69

strawman

Krisken said:
it's probably time to put on our adult pants, step back, and let it go.

That Depends.

Dec 5, 2012#70

North_Ranger

GasBandit said:
I just wanted to see if I could get him to cuss at me in his hilarious middle-earth language again.

Really? Well, Gas ol' boy, all you had to do was ask.

Ahem...

Senkin surkea, kelvoton jenkkilehmän peräpaan kaivelija! Sinun on nyt kuule parempi tukkia vanhan oikeistolaisen fraasikokoelmasta varastettuja "viisauksia" suoltava aukkosi - se ylempi siis, vaikka samaa paskaahan niistä molemmista lävistä ulos tunkee. Muuten saatan jopa suuttua ja aloittaa oman pikku talvisotani, minkä jälkeen juokset takaisin emäsi luo vinkuen niin kuin se karvainen pikku pallero joka todellisuudessa olet! Ja anna ollakin viimeinen kerta, tai potkin sinua perseelle niin lujaa että varpaat pilkistää suusta ja kankkulihasi voi myydä palvina! Perkele!

There... That oughta do it. Lemme know if you want some more... you damn eagle-schtoinker

Dec 5, 2012#71

TommiR

stienman said:
The only thing, though, that people can really say against vaccines in general right now, since there's little scientific evidence to support them otherwise, is that they don't believe the government should be able to medicate them against their will.

Are the vaccinations mandatory, though? From what I understood from Dei's post, one can easily not have their children or themselves vaccinated, and it's perfectly legal. Or is this something that depends on which state one lives in?

If the vaccination is mandatory, then there might be issues with a person's right to choose regarding their own bodies.

Dec 5, 2012#72

North_Ranger

Seemed appropriate:

And the full episode:

Dec 5, 2012#73

Gared

North_Ranger said:
Really? Well, Gas ol' boy, all you had to do was ask.

Ahem...

Senkin surkea, kelvoton jenkkilehmän peräpaan kaivelija! Sinun on nyt kuule parempi tukkia vanhan oikeistolaisen fraasikokoelmasta varastettuja "viisauksia" suoltava aukkosi - se ylempi siis, vaikka samaa paskaahan niistä molemmista lävistä ulos tunkee. Muuten saatan jopa suuttua ja aloittaa oman pikku talvisotani, minkä jälkeen juokset takaisin emäsi luo vinkuen niin kuin se karvainen pikku pallero joka todellisuudessa olet! Ja anna ollakin viimeinen kerta, tai potkin sinua perseelle niin lujaa että varpaat pilkistää suusta ja kankkulihasi voi myydä palvina! Perkele!

There... That oughta do it. Lemme know if you want some more... you damn eagle-schtoinker

Hmm... Google translate doesn't seem to like about half of that paragraph. Maybe it doesn't translate foul language. As it is, the translation gives me a wonderful sentence in the middle of your rant - "Otherwise, I may even get angry and start your own little Winter War, and then run back to the emäsi creates vinkuen as it hairy little tot who you really are!" I think I'll have to adopt "hairy little tot" for my own personal use.

Dec 5, 2012#74

GasBandit

North_Ranger said:
Really? Well, Gas ol' boy, all you had to do was ask.

Ahem...

Senkin surkea, kelvoton jenkkilehmän peräpaan kaivelija! Sinun on nyt kuule parempi tukkia vanhan oikeistolaisen fraasikokoelmasta varastettuja "viisauksia" suoltava aukkosi - se ylempi siis, vaikka samaa paskaahan niistä molemmista lävistä ulos tunkee. Muuten saatan jopa suuttua ja aloittaa oman pikku talvisotani, minkä jälkeen juokset takaisin emäsi luo vinkuen niin kuin se karvainen pikku pallero joka todellisuudessa olet! Ja anna ollakin viimeinen kerta, tai potkin sinua perseelle niin lujaa että varpaat pilkistää suusta ja kankkulihasi voi myydä palvina! Perkele!

There... That oughta do it. Lemme know if you want some more... you damn eagle-schtoinker

It's not the same if I have to come right out and say it.

Dec 5, 2012#75

North_Ranger

GasBandit said:
It's not the same if I have to come right out and say it.

Trust me, there's A LOT I can think of to say about you at the drop of a hat.. you hairy little tot

Dec 5, 2012#76

GasBandit

North_Ranger said:
Trust me, there's A LOT I can think of to say about you at the drop of a hat.. you hairy little tot

No, what I mean is, I had to tell you to do it. That's like... paying for sex. From a vending machine.

Dec 5, 2012#77

Gared

GasBandit said:
No, what I mean is, I had to tell you to do it. That's like... paying for sex. From a vending machine.

Would it be easier for you to accept the idea of paying for sex from a vending machine if that same vending machine also came with a mechanical leg that kicked you in the nuts when you used it?

Dec 5, 2012#78

Krisken

GasBandit said:
No, what I mean is, I had to tell you to do it. That's like... paying for sex. From a vending machine.

Texas is weird.

Dec 5, 2012#79

strawman

TommiR said:
Are the vaccinations mandatory, though? From what I understood from Dei's post, one can easily not have their children or themselves vaccinated, and it's perfectly legal. Or is this something that depends on which state one lives in?

If the vaccination is mandatory, then there might be issues with a person's right to choose regarding their own bodies.

Vaccinations are required to get into public schools, with very few ways to opt out. Almost all have an opt out for religious reasons, though a few are very strict about that as well. Each state is different.

If you don't attend public school, or you sign the form saying your religion forbids it, then you don't have to be vaccinated. There are a few other times vaccination is checked and required - such as for welfare, some jobs, etc.

Dec 5, 2012#80

TommiR

Interesting. I can well understand that some jobs require such vaccinations, jobs where medical health and standards of hygiene are quite important. Besides, a job is not exactly anyone's right. I'd assume similar reasons for opting out are accepted for welfare as for public schools, though. It would seem quite harsh if officials were in a position to deny welfare benefits from people who are otherwise entitled to them.

A person's right to their own bodies is not complete, of course, what with laws against suicide and euthanasia for instance, as well as anti-drug laws, and the varying legal status of abortion. So bodily rights are apparently considered neither inalienable nor actual human rights, but rather matters that are left up to the lawmakers' discretion. Given such a framework, one can see how vaccinations can be made mandatory. And perhaps high-level congressional debate on the vaccination topic is healthy, in the same vein as discussion on any law not dealing with fundamental rights not subject to change.

Dec 5, 2012#81

SpecialKO

Did...did this thread actually manage to return to topic? :confused:

This must be what it feels like to have a prodigal son!

Now he must be vaccinated!

Dec 5, 2012#82

Sparhawk

My wife has a friend who has an autistic son. She blames all of it on BIG PHARMA! It's like every single facebook post she makes, multiples a day, is a variation of "BIG PHARMA GAVE MY SON AUTISM!" Some of the crap that she posts is just so far out of this world that you have to wonder just what you could get her to believe. I've kept her as a facebook friend, but block her stuff from my wall, so that if my wife tells me something that she posted that is worthwhile, family photos or the like, I can take a look. Mostly I just shake my head at the crap she believes.

Dec 9, 2012#83

CrimsonSoul

Krisken said:
I think you're making something personal which didn't need to be. Yeah, we veer, but when it becomes a flag waving moronathon, it's probably time to put on our adult pants, step back, and let it go.

But... but... NR can't put on his adult pants on account of he doesn't wear pants

Dec 9, 2012#84

blotsfan

Yeah he does.

Dec 9, 2012#85

North_Ranger

blotsfan said:
Yeah he does.

I'll put those on... if you shove a hockey stick up your keister.

Sideways.

Covered with sriracha. :twisted:

Dec 11, 2012#86

Frank

blotsfan said:
Yeah he does.

You know, they're very maligned here, but I bet they feel pretty rad.

Dec 11, 2012#87

North_Ranger

Frank said:
You know, they're very maligned here, but I bet they feel pretty rad.

Yeah, I guess... If you consider sweaty thighs and cooked balls "rad". Seriously, equating those things to a nice, relaxing sauna is like saying that getting clobbered on the back with baseball bats counts as a massage.

Dec 11, 2012#88

CrimsonSoul

North_Ranger said:
Yeah, I guess... If you consider sweaty thighs and cooked balls "rad". Seriously, equating those things to a nice, relaxing sauna is like saying that getting clobbered on the back with baseball bats counts as a massage.

Well James Bond equates getting hammered in the balls with a hard object the same as scratching them. So I'm sure someone somewhere thinks the same about a bat to the back

Dec 11, 2012#89

strawman

Frank said:
You know, they're very maligned here, but I bet they feel pretty rad.

According to one amazon review, you are correct:

Like a lot of guys, I sometimes have trouble getting a good crotch sweat going. Wrapping my nethers in plastic wrap and a dozen freshly baked Hot Pockets only goes so far. So, as soon as I saw this magnificent product I knew I must have it. The friendly orange hue and easy-to-use velcro attachments greatly appealed to me, and I was very pleased to see the roomy 54" waistline!

The first time I tried it I was simply amazed. I had never been so relaxed as I felt my own musky brine soak into every hairy crevice and all the pores on my considerable backside opened up. I fell into a deep meditative trance as my ears were soothed by the gentle sprinkle of ball sweat rolling down my glistening hammy thighs and dropping into a small tepid puddle on the floor. I sat there luxuriating in the cozy warmth of my nethers, slowly saturating my living room couch, and came to only when the depth of my relaxation allowed a small burst of flatulence to rise up and out of the Sauna Pants in a series of hot humid bubbles that tickled my lobster-red skin as they rolled out.

Now on freezing mornings the first thing I do after heaving myself out of bed is slip on my splendid Sauna Pants! Everyone else at the bus stop may be shivering but with my Sauna Pants tightly secured beneath my Utilikilt like a giant orange diaper, I know no fear of cold. When the bus arrives, my sweat-lubed legs slide effortlessly against each other as I waddle for the door. The pungent aroma that arises reminds me of my own healthful vitality. Through either jealousy or appreciation, I am always left with my own seat.

Dec 11, 2012#90

Frank

Really seals in the flavour.

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