[News] Congress Holds Anti-Vaccination Hearings
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GasBandit
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It is an american thing to do that, because those sort of abuses were exactly what made us have to revolt in the first place, and even then there was a debate about whether it was an improvement to trade 1 tyrant 1000 miles away for 1000 tyrants 1 mile away. Unfortunately, time and the education system (under federal oversight, of course) have dulled the majority's sense of individual responsibility such that your average american doesn't actually care about liberty, or thinks it means the freedom to choose which reality TV program to watch after they get home from their drudgery.
Pretty much. "Give me liberty or give me death" is one way of saying that absolutely no encroachment on our liberty is allowable.
You are itching at the experimental psychologist in me (which is admittedly a pretty easy target to itch). You present a nice hypothesis, but there are many, many, many other potential factors that could account for any observed decline in sense of personal responsibility (of course, citation needed. Do you have a longitudinal, cross-sectional, or any kind of generational comparison to demonstrate this?) That's not to say that you're wrong, just that you present a causal relationship with basically your opinion as the supporting evidence for it, meaning all it is at the present time is a hypothesis, ripe for the falsifying.
Then again there are some real horror stories that have happened in American Medical History.
North_Ranger
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Wow, Mr Ewok... You have no slippery slope, you just frickin' dive into a pool made of Founding Fathers, paranoia and Fox News.
...
I wonder if anyone could draw that?
GasBandit
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You'd be hard pressed to find a control group to test the hypothesis, but it's openly acknowledged that the US educational system was deliberately created in such a manner as to create docile workers, not beings of thought and intelligence.
"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks." -Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, in a speech to businessmen, and from an address to The New York City High School Teachers Association, Jan. 9th, 1909.
"The children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone would be interdependent." -John Dewey
"Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life, because they're not tempted to think about any other role."
-William Torrey Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889-1906.
"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks." -Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States, in a speech to businessmen, and from an address to The New York City High School Teachers Association, Jan. 9th, 1909.
"The children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone would be interdependent." -John Dewey
"Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life, because they're not tempted to think about any other role."
-William Torrey Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education, 1889-1906.
I'd pay to see that drawing. I wouldn't pay much, but I would pay to see it.
For the most part, that is only true of certain public schools these days. It's all about where you live, in a socio-economic sense at least.
GasBandit
Staff member
I wouldn't expect you to understand, you have not a single independently-motivated bone in your body, having never had to spend a single day exposed to actual liberty, being a serf in a nordic welfare country. Frankly, I wouldn't even classify you as human... more some kind of pet.
How do charter schools factor in?
North_Ranger
Staff member
Better that than some thigh.
... says the slave of a self-promoting national holy cow mythology used to justify anything and everything.
*drops the mic*
You can show a trend, at least, and identify the factors that highly relevant to predicting that decline. You can rule OUT variables and you can identify precedence of the variables. Perhaps the education system is a RESULT of a decline in personal responsibility, for example.
I'm sure there are plenty of quotable people (even *gasp* Democrats!) that would have completely counter statements to those you presented.
No you didn't fix shit. Public schools in higher income areas are actually pretty well rounded and have a lot of learning chances. There are also charter schools, which are *also* public schools, just not districted and parents can choose to send their kids there on the same dime. You can easily find public schools that are just as good as private schools, you just have to look around/not live in the ghetto.
GasBandit
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A mixed bag. A better chance on average I'd say of a kid actually learning to think than attending a PS#, at least.
Oh, and have we reinvented the educational system since then? For your next recreational reading, I suggest you pick up a book by John Taylor Gatto, particularly The Underground History of American Education, which is available in its entirety online to read for free. Gatto was a teacher for 30 years, and was New York City's teacher of the year for 3 years straight 89-91, when he quit, publishing his resignation letter in the wall street journal, saying he no longer wanted to "hurt kids for a living."[DOUBLEPOST=1354738049][/DOUBLEPOST]
Get back to me when you live in a real country which has a claim to fame other than being a nazi collaborator.
(picks the mic up, dusts it off, and returns it to its padded case because, as a capitalist, he knows the value of things)
North_Ranger
Staff member
Pot calling the kettle the colour of the people whom your country considered property.
Also, historically incorrect. But then again, this whole thread started with a group of people who have an aversion to facts.
*tips his hat and prepares to celebrate tomorrow's independence day in his own fashion*
GasBandit
Staff member
By suckling at the government teat, no doubt. Psf, all it took was a few vodka-soaked slavs to send you hiding in hitler's skirts, and you compare that to slavery? Which one of those happened in living memory again?
GasBandit
Staff member
Hey, when you turn the key, you better be ready to go to town.
GasBandit
Staff member
THAT WAS MY FAVORITE THIRTEEN DOLLARS AND FOURTEEN CENTS, and don't you marginalize it. You monster.
GasBandit
Staff member
You didn't turn the key. He did. And we probably agree about the vaccines. All of us.
But like all threads around here, this one veered off a little, as so often happens when someone asks "why." And then someone casts aspersions on another poster, and then it's off to the races.
GasBandit
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I just wanted to see if I could get him to cuss at me in his hilarious middle-earth language again.
GasBandit
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That Depends.
North_Ranger
Staff member
Really? Well, Gas ol' boy, all you had to do was ask.
Ahem...
Senkin surkea, kelvoton jenkkilehmän peräpaan kaivelija! Sinun on nyt kuule parempi tukkia vanhan oikeistolaisen fraasikokoelmasta varastettuja "viisauksia" suoltava aukkosi - se ylempi siis, vaikka samaa paskaahan niistä molemmista lävistä ulos tunkee. Muuten saatan jopa suuttua ja aloittaa oman pikku talvisotani, minkä jälkeen juokset takaisin emäsi luo vinkuen niin kuin se karvainen pikku pallero joka todellisuudessa olet! Ja anna ollakin viimeinen kerta, tai potkin sinua perseelle niin lujaa että varpaat pilkistää suusta ja kankkulihasi voi myydä palvina! Perkele!
There... That oughta do it. Lemme know if you want some more... you damn eagle-schtoinker
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