[Rant] Can we please stop this "is she a REAL geek lol" bullshit?

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GasBandit

Staff member
I thought you liked empirical studies? Perhaps it was all a ruse to prove me as a foolish academic. You fell for, it Moonie! Hook, line, and gendered insult
You provided me a study that showed that girls are treated meaner because they are girls, which is not in dispute, as an assertion for something else.[DOUBLEPOST=1343421283][/DOUBLEPOST]
I've thrown a $20 to a friend to dare him to do something stupid such as dance sexy in front of another guy... I'd never ask a girl friend to do that. No matter how cool they are...
I strategically sculpted a hot dog, put it on a sleeping friend's lips, and took some blurry pictures. There's a good example of a good way to end up in jail if the recipient had been female.
 
I strategically sculpted a hot dog, put it on a sleeping friend's lips, and took some blurry pictures. There's a good example of a good way to end up in jail if the recipient had been female.
Is it because the laws are too harsh on men who do that to women, or because the laws are not harsh enough on men who do that to men?
 
M

Magister Moonie

You provided me a study that showed that girls are treated meaner because they are girls, which is not in dispute, as an assertion for something else.[DOUBLEPOST=1343421283][/DOUBLEPOST]
I provided examples that the use of gendered insults provide a vastly different experience for women than it does men. I don't have access to other EMPIRICAL research I've used because it is behind a paywall, but maybe I can find the abstract in a sociology database.

But until you can provide me with a study that proves gendered language is made neuter online, divorce of any implicit or explicit association with women than I think you are full of it!


future response:

It is okay to call people bitch (cf: rage comic; reddit, 2010)
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I provided examples that the use of gendered insults provide a vastly different experience for women than it does men. I don't have access to other EMPIRICAL research I've used because it is behind a paywall, but maybe I can find the abstract in a sociology database.

But until you can provide me with a study that proves gendered language is made neuter online, divorce of any implicit or explicit association with women than I think you are full of it!


future response:

It is okay to call people bitch (cf: rage comic; reddit, 2010)
That is all irrelevant to my assertion, which is (without any commentary on whether it's right or acceptable or not) that to a great many guys, and a majority of them online, "bitch" is an all-purpose go-to insult that doesn't have gender association in the mind of the user. Now, you can argue that how it is received by their targets differs along gender lines, and I won't disagree. And you can think I'm full of it all you like. It hardly places you in the minority around here, and you would be, of course, just as wrong as the rest of them.
 
M

Magister Moonie

thank you for reading this sociology chat, if you enjoyed this sociology chat, press 1 now to read about the intervention dynamics of small volunteer groups.
 

Necronic

Staff member
As soon as I start hearing options I just immediately hit 0 so I can talk to an operator and get what I want.
 
I strategically sculpted a hot dog, put it on a sleeping friend's lips, and took some blurry pictures. There's a good example of a good way to end up in jail if the recipient had been female.
My friend passed out from drinking. In the middle of the night, I put his hand inside warm water and let mother nature take its course. Then I hid the water and let him deal with it.
 

Dave

Staff member
In all of this, though, I must say I am taking the word of actual individual women who are considered "geeky" before I give much weight to what the guys here have to say. So when THEY say Gas is wrong...
 
2 things.

1) I'm a semi-geeky guy and I'm nice to all my friends (except sometimes the short ones) regardless of their gender or proximity, and very few people are nice to me and dammit I'm sensitive. :(

2) Watermelon is delicious.
 

Dave

Staff member
this is a really dumb attitude to have
So you'd take a white guy's attitudes over a black guy's when it comes to race relations? Or a christian's over a muslim's on the topic of religious discrimination in America?[DOUBLEPOST=1343426762][/DOUBLEPOST]And weren't you one of the guys saying that a panel of celibate old white guys talking about reproductive rights of women was stupid?
 
I wouldn't completely disregard those people's opinions. Stuff like gender hurts men and women, and gender roles and gendered insults have caused me a lot of grief. I'm not going to pretend I have it worse than women or know what they're going through, but I can still have an informed opinion
 
]And weren't you one of the guys saying that a panel of celibate old white guys talking about reproductive rights of women was stupid?
Making laws about health concerns that they literally don't have is different than trying to explain privilege and gendered insults, etc etc
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I used to work with a lady who said she refused to have a male doctor because there was no possible way for a man, not even a doctor, to know what was going on in a woman's body because he didn't "have the right parts inside." I incredulously asked her, "so you think all male gynecologists are just legalized charlatans?" Trying to illustrate the absurdity of her stance, and she replied, "Yep!"

Of course, she also believed that putting a snake skin on a barbed wire fence was guaranteed, guaranteed to make it rain. As in, this was a proven physical law that was beyond question. So.
 

Necronic

Staff member
I used to work with a lady who said she refused to have a male doctor because there was no possible way for a man, not even a doctor, to know what was going on in a woman's body because he didn't "have the right parts inside." I incredulously asked her, "so you think all male gynecologists are just legalized charlatans?" Trying to illustrate the absurdity of her stance, and she replied, "Yep!"
I'll be honest I would not be cool with going to a female herpetologist.
 
I'll answer that question, Droll, if you answer me another one.

Why/how is it, that geek girls only seem to come in two varieties? The same is, up to a point, true for male geeks as well, but I find it much more pronounced in women. You have the ugly-fat-weat-stained-don't-want-to-go-near-with-a-ten-foot-pole type (who are usually awesome and very caring and fun), and you get the so-hot-it's-not-fair-they'-re-also-smart variety (who, in the case of those I know, when nerd, also turn out to be nice. Dammit! I do know why I always crush on geek girls, admittedly, it seems to be 90% of women who are smart, intelligent and hot at the same time are geeks :p)

Anyway, besides the entitlement and idiocy of the masses, I think there's also another thing atp lay here - mostly unconscious. Men (a lot of, but not all, women too) want/need a hobby where they can "be themselves". Be it football, coin collecting, D&D, a rock band, going to war or whatever - men have always had/gone and looked for hobbies where they're not under watch of their significant other and/or being judged by people of the other gender. I think a lot of male geeks feel threatened by women coming to their hobby. Female sports fans are often met with similar issues.
Ahahaha you are awful at everything
 
Why did I read this thread all the way through? Even worse, I'm throwing more kindling on the fire.

Okay, believe it or not, everyone is probably right about broad gender differences/individuality to a fair degree. Basically, there ARE general differences between genders but there is still overlap. Let's simplify what we're talking about and make this about height. Men are generally taller than women, but there are lots of instances of women being taller than men. In these cases, the average difference is not thrown out the window. Men are still more likely to be taller than women, but it is not universally true, just true on average. Here is a nice depiction that demonstrates how there can be a general difference with specific counter-instances of the general difference:



So Gas is talking about the average and Droll and others are providing specific instances as counter examples. Not all men will be equally competitive or assholes to each other and some women will be able to act like that comfortably. But Gas is referring to a byproduct of biological gender differences that, on average, results in attitudinal and behavioral differences. Men are MUCH more likely than women to be felons, commit sexual assault, etc. and do so across almost every culture. This is highly suggestive of a cause for gender differences that is not cultural. We are our biology and you can only do something about the gender differences if you don't ignore that.[DOUBLEPOST=1343437427][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, yay for graphs!
 
Gas wasn't talking about the average, though. I jumped on him because he said "If I treat ANY woman how I treat my male friends... etc."

There are definitely pronounced differences between genders; I'm not questioning that or trying to say "lawl I'm a dude." What I oppose is the idea that being a geek is a boys' club and that women have to prove themselves to gain membership, which is basically what the CNN article was purporting, or that there are areas that should be at all restricted (gaming being a primary one) because women can't "handle it"; the fact that men are more likely than women to be felons has zero to do with being able to walk around a convention without getting the side-eye from manchildren wondering if I'm only there to "satisfy my hollow ego."
 
Gas wasn't talking about the average, though. I jumped on him because he said "If I treat ANY woman how I treat my male friends... etc."

There are definitely pronounced differences between genders; I'm not questioning that or trying to say "lawl I'm a dude." What I oppose is the idea that being a geek is a boys' club and that women have to prove themselves to gain membership, which is basically what the CNN article was purporting, or that there are areas that should be at all restricted (gaming being a primary one) because women can't "handle it"; the fact that men are more likely than women to be felons has zero to do with being able to walk around a convention without getting the side-eye from manchildren wondering if I'm only there to "satisfy my hollow ego."
I'm guessing there are much different reasons you are/would get stared at by manchildren while you're walking around a convention. "Does she REALLY like this stuff?" may be a thought they're having, but it's probably pretty far down the list.
 
I'm guessing there are much different reasons you are/would get stared at by manchildren while you're walking around a convention. "Does she REALLY like this stuff?" may be a thought they're having, but it's probably pretty far down the list.
You know, I would have thought so too, but the CNN article and its subsequent responses made me sorta wonder.
 
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