[Rant] Can we please stop this "is she a REAL geek lol" bullshit?

[Charlie Don't Surf]

am I terrible for never changing my mind or for changing my mind, figure it out

 

[HowDroll]

Men aren't nice to each other out of earshot of ladies.

Uh-huh. I have three brothers, most of my friends are male, and I've had several jobs when I was the only female in the department. Some women can handle being "one of the guys," believe it or not. We're not all delicate little flowers. But feel free to keep painting 50% of the human population with one brush, please. It's quite endearing

There's a difference between a male friend making a joke at my expense because he respects/likes me enough to know I can handle it (and my brothers/male AND female friends and I have come up with some fun names and insults for each other during gaming sessions), and some random jerk with a "LOL SHOULDN'T YOU BE IN THE KITCHEN INSTEAD???" attitude when it comes to the hobbies I enjoy. The latter is what I'm addressing here. Sucks that you don't have any cool female friends, but yeah, totally not the point. But keep up the great sexism!

 

[Dave]

This explains a lot.

Not quite sure what that means. Are you saying that it's a bad thing that my friends and I don't treat each other like enemies or junior high kids?

 

[Necronic]

If anyone is worried about fake nerds taking up their precious hobby and reexamine your life because you've got your priorities all wrong.

You know since this was the actualy point of the original post, I think it's fair to say that we all agree with this, even if we do disagree on details.

 

[GasBandit]

oh wow I guess you edited in a rage comic, hi there rage comic. haha women are so catty!

Anyways, before I was distracted by a hilarious comic that succinctly made an argument, I was going to say I thought you were out of college, my bad. Yeah that shit happens!

Nigga, please, I know 55 year old guys who still act that way.

ANYWAYS

Nerds and the people who supply nerds with their vices (game designers, fantasy authors, TV show creators, comic book companies, etc) need to wise the fuck up and realize that women are part of their target audience and won't be driven away despite how toxic other nerds can be. Even today, I still see comic book people arguing that the only fans are male and white. A quick trip to the comicbook store or convention will show that there are just as many minorities and women buying up Sci-Fi and comicbook shit like it is going out of style.

If anyone is worried about fake nerds taking up their precious hobby and reexamine your life because you've got your priorities all wrong.

Yeah, I don't disagree with you there. Some guys still have yet to realize what most of the rest of us learned in grade school - be nice to girls.

 

[SpecialKO]

I have to admit, I find the idea of Charlie becoming magically, instantaneously attracted to white Americans when they officially are no longer the majority really freakin' funny.

 

[Necronic]

am I terrible for never changing my mind or for changing my mind, figure it out

Your terrible for exchanging one form of zealotry for another and thinking that you fixed the problem

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I have to admit, I find the idea of Charlie becoming magically, instantaneously attracted to white Americans when they officially are no longer the majority really freakin' funny.

*yawn wake up, open window, stretch*

*cock head to side*

WHERE THA WHITE WOMEN AT

 

[Necronic]

ok that was funny

 

[GasBandit]

Uh-huh. I have three brothers, most of my friends are male, and I've had several jobs when I was the only female in the department. Some women can handle being "one of the guys," believe it or not. We're not all delicate little flowers. But feel free to keep painting 50% of the human population with one brush, please. It's quite endearing

Some, but they are the vast minority. Guys are, without malice, as mean and nasty to each other as they can think to be as a game. As bonding. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general it's safer to assume that men and women are different.

There's a difference between a male friend making a joke at my expense because he respects/likes me enough to know I can handle it (and my brothers/male AND female friends and I have come up with some fun names and insults for each other during gaming sessions), and some random jerk with a "LOL SHOULDN'T YOU BE IN THE KITCHEN INSTEAD???" attitude when it comes to the hobbies I enjoy. The latter is what I'm addressing here. Sucks that you don't have any cool female friends, but yeah, totally not the point. But keep up the great sexism!

Fuck you you wonderful lady, I'm not sexist.

Seriously though, what I'm saying is that treating women with respect, which IS WHAT SHOULD BE DONE, is different from how most guys treat each other - IE, disrespectfully.

 

[Necronic]

There's a difference between a male friend making a joke at my expense because he respects/likes me enough to know I can handle it (and my brothers/male AND female friends and I have come up with some fun names and insults for each other during gaming sessions), and some random jerk with a "LOL SHOULDN'T YOU BE IN THE KITCHEN INSTEAD???" attitude when it comes to the hobbies I enjoy. The latter is what I'm addressing here. Sucks that you don't have any cool female friends, but yeah, totally not the point. But keep up the great sexism!

Fair enough, people in the latter don't have a good sense of humor and would be boring to either men or women. But do you acknowledge that men will treat women differently simply for realities of human mating? The way a human will interact with another human when mating is not on the table is significantly different from when it is, and for most men mating is always on the mind (at some level).

 

[GasBandit]

Ok, I want to know if bitch is an automatic filter or if dave doesn't think that the tough geek chick who "can handle it" can't handle the word bitch, even when used in ironic jest.

Aaand that answers that.

 

[Necronic]

It's not on a filter apparently.

 

[SpecialKO]

need to wise the fuck up and realize that women are part of their target audience and won't be driven away despite how toxic other nerds can be.

The odd thing is that many of them do realize that...and then take it in another direction entirely and say, "well, if they're not leaving, they must LOVE the way we do things, so let's keep on keepin' on!"

The game industry in particular has issues with this.

 

[Dave]

Ok, I want to know if bitch is an automatic filter or if dave doesn't think that the tough geek chick who "can handle it" can't handle the word bitch, even when used in ironic jest.

Aaand that answers that.

It's not a filter. We don't allow name calling.

 

[GasBandit]

Not quite sure what that means. Are you saying that it's a bad thing that my friends and I don't treat each other like enemies or junior high kids?

You'll never understand. You're condemned to be a melvin forever.

 

[HowDroll]

Some, but they are the vast minority. Guys are, without malice, as mean and nasty to each other as they can think to be as a game. As bonding. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general it's safer to assume that men and women are different.

Fuck you bitch, I'm not sexist.

Seriously though, what I'm saying is that treating women with respect, which IS WHAT SHOULD BE DONE, is different from how most guys treat each other - IE, disrespectfully.

A lot of women are like that. Some women aren't. What I took exception to was the "ANY woman" part of your statement because, yeah, a woman's sense of humor can be just as varied as a man's. I'm sure there are lots of men out there who would be shocked and pissed to be treated in the way you describe, and lots of women who would join right in.

While you and your friends may treat each other a certain way that would be shockingly disrespectful if directed toward strangers, am I wrong in assuming that these actions come from a place of respect? Do you have to reach a certain level in your friendship before such shenanigans commence? If I was -- to use your previous example -- gaming with a friend and he used those words to me, I'd laugh and tell him to fuck off because the context of the situation is very different than, say, if that same friend and I were in a legitimate argument and those words were said in anger and meant to hurt. Gender has nothing to do with it.

 

[GasBandit]

It's not a filter. We don't allow name calling.

Since when?! Bitch.

 

[Dave]

Right. Glad to know.

 

[strawman]

I can understand some geek reactions, though. Some of them are socially unable to interact with women and they do feel threatened at the influx into their hobby. You can't just jump into their playground, and tell them to change. Even if they wanted to, some them wouldn't be able to change.

Their actions may still be inexcusable, but at some point you do have to simply ignore what one subset of the community is doing, and enjoy the parts that are worthwhile for you.

 

[Dave]

Since when?! Bitch.

Context is everything. Maybe I read your post to Droll incorrectly, but it looked like you were calling her a bitch for real, which is why the edit and 0 point warning. If you want to discuss it further, there's a conversation open for it already. We can take it there.

 

[HowDroll]

I can understand some geek reactions, though. Some of them are socially unable to interact with women and they do feel threatened at the influx into their hobby. You can't just jump into their playground, and tell them to change. Even if they wanted to, some them wouldn't be able to change.

Their actions may still be inexcusable, but at some point you do have to simply ignore what one subset of the community is doing, and enjoy the parts that are worthwhile for you.

I'm generally happy to ignore it, and I honestly didn't really feel the need to comment until articles about it were splashed across the front page of CNN several days in a row.

 

[GasBandit]

A lot of women are like that. Some women aren't. What I took exception to was the "ANY woman" part of your statement because, yeah, a woman's sense of humor can be just as varied as a man's. I'm sure there are lots of men out there who would be shocked and pissed to be treated in the way you describe, and lots of women who would join right in.

Very well, let me amend "ANY woman" to "EVERY." As in, the default. That was what I was going for.

While you and your friends may treat each other a certain way that would be shockingly disrespectful if directed toward strangers, am I wrong in assuming that these actions come from a place of respect? Do you have to reach a certain level in your friendship before such shenanigans commence? If I was -- to use your previous example -- gaming with a friend and he used those words to me, I'd laugh and tell him to fuck off because the context of the situation is very different than, say, if that same friend and I were in a legitimate argument and those words were said in anger and meant to hurt. Gender has nothing to do with it.

Eh, I have found that there is, in general, a very disproportionate level in the amount one gender is willing to put up with of that sort of nonsense as opposed to the other.

 

[Necronic]

It's remarkable how many overlaps I am seeing between the Taliban and the neckbeard Gamers we are discussing.

 

[Magister Moonie]

Context is everything. Maybe I read your post to Droll incorrectly, but it looked like you were calling her a bitch for real, which is why the edit and 0 point warning. If you want to discuss it further, there's a conversation open for it already. We can take it there.

I particularly like the insinuation that if she didn't like being called a gendered insult, that proves his point and women really are just unable to be one of the boys.

 

[strawman]

Your terrible...

My terrible what?

 

[Necronic]

Your terrible rug of war.

 

[GasBandit]

Context is everything. Maybe I read your post to Droll incorrectly, but it looked like you were calling her a bitch for real, which is why the edit and 0 point warning. If you want to discuss it further, there's a conversation open for it already. We can take it there.

I wasn't, and I don't think she thought I was either. I don't think it needs further discussion, and you ought to know by now I don't care about warnings.[DOUBLEPOST=1343419137][/DOUBLEPOST]

I particularly like the insinuation that if she didn't like being called a gendered insult, that proves his point and women really are just unable to be one of the boys.

Any empirical study of its useage, especially in gaming, will show you that bitch is not an insult exclusive to one gender.

 

[Necronic]

You know for the amount that me, Gas, Charlie and Steinman are commenting in this this really should be in the politics subforum.

 

[Dave]

Any empirical study of its useage, especially in gaming, will show you that bitch is not an insult exclusive to one gender.

Neither is "rape" or "fag", but these aren't acceptable either.

 

[GasBandit]

Neither is "rape" or "fag", but these aren't acceptable either.

I made no assertion other than gender. And it speaks even more to my point - while I personally don't bandy those about and usually my friends do not also, there are lots of guys out there who do, and from their point of view it only became an issue when girls started "intruding." <--- (this is not defending them)

 

[Magister Moonie]

I wasn't, and I don't think she thought I was either. I don't think it needs further discussion, and you ought to know by now I don't care about warnings.[DOUBLEPOST=1343419137][/DOUBLEPOST]
Any empirical study of its useage, especially in gaming, will show you that bitch is not an insult exclusive to one gender.

let's find out!

http://lin.ca/Uploads/cclr11/CCLR11-28.pdf
"Third, a significant finding of this study was that there was also evidence
that gendered violence was not just part of the game content, but was also experience by
the female gamers as described by their experience of misogynistic and/or discriminatory
behaviors directed toward them because they are female players. This included sexually
derogatory or hateful comments towards female gamers (e.g. “suck my dick bitch, and go back to the kitchen”)"

 

[GasBandit]

let's find out!

http://lin.ca/Uploads/cclr11/CCLR11-28.pdf
"Third, a significant finding of this study was that there was also evidence
that gendered violence was not just part of the game content, but was also experience by
the female gamers as described by their experience of misogynistic and/or discriminatory
behaviors directed toward them because they are female players. This included sexually
derogatory or hateful comments towards female gamers (e.g. “suck my dick bitch, and go back to the kitchen”)"

I don't even know what gender you ARE, but already I can tell you're a little wonderful lady. That study starts from a presupposition that bitch is gendered use. You basically just tried to prove creationism to me by quoting the bible.

 

[Jay]

Eh, I have found that there is, in general, a very disproportionate level in the amount one gender is willing to put up with of that sort of nonsense as opposed to the other.

I agree with you and in many ways, I act the same with my friends.

For example...

I've thrown a $20 to a friend to dare him to do something stupid such as dance sexy in front of another guy... I'd never ask a girl friend to do that. No matter how cool they are...

Cause this ain't likely going to happen

Spoiler

I however, will attempt to throw Droll a few dares if I ever meet her though, being a cool, friendly AMERICANA friend and all.

 

[Magister Moonie]

I thought you liked empirical studies? Perhaps it was all a ruse to prove me as a foolish academic. You fell for, it Moonie! Hook, line, and gendered insult