The Zoe Quinn sex-for-reviews scandal

GasBandit

Staff member
I don't even know where to start with this thing that's just blown up all over reddit, imgur, and various other gaming sites.

Kotaku and Zoe Quinn apparently exchanging sex for positive game reviews. And faking doxx attacks to play the victim card.

As we speak, thousands of reddit comments critical of Quinn have been deleted by the /r/gaming subreddit moderator El Chupacupcake shortly after he solicited contact with Quinn via twitter.

Pop some corn, friends, this is a long and twisted rabbit hole.
 
I don't even know where to start with this thing that's just blown up all over reddit, imgur, and various other gaming sites.

Kotaku and Zoe Quinn apparently exchanging sex for positive game reviews. And faking doxx attacks to play the victim card.

As we speak, thousands of reddit comments critical of Quinn have been deleted by the /r/gaming subreddit moderator El Chupacupcake shortly after he solicited contact with Quinn via twitter.

Pop some corn, friends, this is a long and twisted rabbit hole.
This is going to be bad. We're going to see at least a few firings. Most of them will deserve it.
 
Saw the comments by TotalBiscuit, but honestly am on the periphery so didn't even find out about it until this morning.

--Patrick
 

Necronic

Staff member
Let me give this the appropriate "meh" that she deserved in the first place. She's made what? One game? Who cares what she does.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Let me give this the appropriate "meh" that she deserved in the first place. She's made what? One game? Who cares what she does.
I know we're all cynical and jaded about the gaming journalism community, but I'd say this definitely crossed a threshold beyond what we'd normally expect from them. Literally quid-pro-quo sex for positive reviews.

But most of the shitstorm seems to be about what happened afterwards - the massive squelch attempt going on right now on Reddit, Neogaf, etc.
 
This whole thing makes me sick to my stomache. She appears to be a terrible fucking person, but I don't care about that. I care how it's going to be used as "evidence" of how woman will act in the industry and why they shouldn't be put in charge. I care that it's going to color the opinion of every hiring staff. I care that our industry is going to become worse because of this.

But mostly, I care because now the fucking trolls have someone to parade in front of an audience every time they feel like spouting off their fucking ignorant bullshit. Ugh.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
I wonder how many major publishers have hired prostitutes for members of the gaming press in order to get a good review.
 
I wonder how many major publishers have hired prostitutes for members of the gaming press in order to get a good review.
Considering many publishers don't send out review copies anymore and instead fly people out to a hotel event to show games off under controlled conditions, it's a sure bet that it's happened before. As I've said before, this kind of thing is why I left the industry. We have no journalistic standards, a nepotistic environment is enforced by reporters needing access to do their work, game companies are more than willing to just buy their reviews, and you can't get ANYTHING done unless you have friends in the industry, but those same friends will throw you under the bus once they get what they want. It's toxic and there are only three ways to get into the industry...

- Be rich enough to start your own studio
- Know someone who works at or owns a studio
- Suck a cock, ether metaphorically or actually.

Any other method is ether going to have you grinding your wheels for years or get you the kind of position that gets you fired at the end of every dev cycle.
 
What a fucking trainwreck. Oh and look, Phil "suck my dick, choke on it" Fish weighed in but then put his Twitter on followers only. This whole industry needs a hard reboot, it's become such a fucking mess.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I'm not sure I believe her, given that she's fabricated "attacks" on herself before to get visibility/sympathy as a victim of the big bad internet.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
https://twitter.com/stephentotilo the boss of Kotaku's tweets about Grayson.
Unsurprising that he'd circle the wagons when it's his train catching fire. Zero credibility. "I trust him, so should you." Give me a break. Kotaku's been plainly going downhill and in somebody's pocket for a while now, at least now the light is on and we can see the roaches scurrying for cover.

Jeez, this video gets really gross with a lot of baseless accusations.
More like raises a lot of valid questions. The credibility of games journalism (tattered as it was already) and the indie development scene might not recover for years from this.
 
Unsurprising that he'd circle the wagons when it's his train catching fire. Zero credibility. "I trust him, so should you." Give me a break. Kotaku's been plainly going downhill and in somebody's pocket for a while now, at least now the light is on and we can see the roaches scurrying for cover.


More like raises a lot of valid questions. The credibility of games journalism (tattered as it was already) and the indie development scene might not recover for years from this.
Saying, "Maybe he slept with she or she slept with he." like he does isn't raising questions, it's feeding bullshit rumours that have no basis anywhere.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Saying, "Maybe he slept with she or she slept with he." like he does isn't raising questions, it's feeding bullshit rumours that have no basis anywhere.
You're right, clearly there's no way a woman who used sex to get ahead 5 times would do it a 6th or 7th time.
 

Dave

Staff member
I've read all about it and I still don't give a shit. Someone sleeping to get ahead in a nepotistic industry? No way!
 
Zoe's assertion that this is a private matter... no, it's not. Her actions conflicted with both the ethics of her profession and lead to a conspiracy that not only gave her an unfair advantage in promoting her work... it not only silenced voices in opposition of her work but was responsible for destroying the work of others who have similar aims. We're talking major fraud here. People's work was lost to line her pockets and thrust her into the limelight. And her cries that she's still planning to work towards a future were women don't need to worry about this exposure ring hollow when the only reason what she did was wrong was because she did it for professional gain. Anyone who would judge her for wanting to sleep around is an asshole, but judging her for the favors she curried out of those exploits is a fundamental part of ethics.

To quote Huey Freeman "Whatever happened to standards? What ever happened to bare minimums?". We deserve the message of female empowerment to be delivered by someone better than this. Give me Anita Sarkesian any day over this woman. I may think her work is shoddy, but at least I don't doubt that she actually cares about this enough to walk the walk.
 
I've read all about it and I still don't give a shit. Someone sleeping to get ahead in a nepotistic industry? No way!
And the shit Grayson is getting is beyond stupid. His only article mentioning her game was a large article listing a bunch of games that were greenlit by Steam. He didn't even do any kind of preview shit.

This whole debacle is embarrassing as a whole for everyone involved and everyone who cares too much what her vagina has apparently corrupted.

The whole fucking thing that has sprouted out around this "controversy" is grotesque.
 
Full disclosure: I'm acquainted with some of the peripheral parties involved, though neither Zoe nor her ex.

This is going to sound Charlie-esque, but I'm deeply uncomfortable with how this conversation is being framed (more elsewhere than here, but here has a little bit of it, too).

Accusing a woman of trading sex for promotion, not just using existing personal relationships to put herself in a better position but phrasing it as sex-for-trade, without absolute proof is an intensely gendered personal attack. It's something that women who attempt to succeed in traditionally male industries are subjected to, regardless of actual culpability, on a regular basis, and it is often used to downplay and diminish the role of individual women or women as a whole in that industry. There is an extremely clear agenda in making "sex-for-trade" part of the discussion, because once you make it about leveraging personal ties, it becomes merely incestuous and mildly distasteful in the popular discourse instead of THE WORST THING EVER that some people are trying to push it as.

The games industry *is* intensely nepotistic and incestuous. It is really small considering the money involved, and people are constantly changing their precise relationship to it. Games journalists often want to *be* developers and developers often want to *be* populist bloggers, so the interrelationships can get extremely messy. The indie-scene is actually even messier *because* its full of former AAA-studio people and former games journalists (and tons of VC money) coming together to try and make something, so every relationship those people bring to the table gets tied up and tangled with everyone else's. Throw in the fact that this is an industry where major publishers pay thousands of dollars to fly journalists out, put them in a nice hotel, and treat them to a 5-star media presentation performance to show off a game for two days, and it is pretty clear why games journalism is generally shoddy and fawning.

Even if someone found a chat conversation where Zoe specifically asked Nathan G. to write a review in exchange for sexual favors, the pearl-clutching reaction to it is incredibly out of proportion to what is actually happening.
 
Accusing a woman of trading sex for promotion, not just using existing personal relationships to put herself in a better position but phrasing it as sex-for-trade, without absolute proof is an intensely gendered personal attack. It's something that women who attempt to succeed in traditionally male industries are subjected to, regardless of actual culpability, on a regular basis, and it is often used to downplay and diminish the role of individual women or women as a whole in that industry. There is an extremely clear agenda in making "sex-for-trade" part of the discussion, because once you make it about leveraging personal ties, it becomes merely incestuous and mildly distasteful in the popular discourse instead of THE WORST THING EVER that some people are trying to push it as.
The appearance of impropriety is impropriety exactly because of how difficult it is to prove. Yes, it's true... short of an image of her having sex with one of the involved or a transcript of her requesting favors for said intercourse, it may be impossible to prove conclusively that this is what went down... but that doesn't make the relationships of everyone involved unprofessional and questionable, and it's ON THEM that any of this happened. It's the kind of thing that would get you fired in any other profession, ESPECIALLY journalism.

And you can't make this "merely" about leveraging personal relationships once sex becomes involved. This isn't a father giving his child a well paid position over someone's who has actually put the time and effort into the company. This is someone who entered into a series of relationships with the people who could advance her career best at the most opportune moment for her do so. One would be a coincidence. Five is not.
 
It's the kind of thing that would get you fired in any other profession, ESPECIALLY journalism.
Only one person actually involved is a journalist, there isn't the slightest proof of anything (even overly favorable coverage), and his boss is clearly fine with whatever the explanation actually is. This won't change anyone's opinion of Kotaku, and it takes place in an industry where everyone, fans and industry people alike, already acknowledge that journalists are massively and openly influenced by the makers of games. All that's left is to try and publicly shame her for her choices in how she uses her relationships and the way everyone has been phrasing it is much closer to slut-shaming than anything suggesting real concern over the state of games journalism.

This is someone who entered into a series of relationships with the people who could advance her career best at the most opportune moment for her do so. One would be a coincidence. Five is not.
So? Did she sign a purity pledge before joining the industry? At the most, assuming its all true (which I would really caution against), that makes her an emotionally manipulative careerist, which is pretty far from unique in *any* industry.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I'm sure that injustices are everywhere is a great comfort to MundaneMatt and the Fine Young Capitalists game jam organizer she doxxed.
 

Dave

Staff member
I asked this on Reddit and got downvoted. She's called a game dev. Has she ever developed a game that was published or gained any sort of traction? Why should I know her or care?
 
It's just a bad breakup that became public. Gender politics aside, it's not that big of a deal and will swiftly smooth over.

(And the poor guy is completely and utterly too immature to be dealing with this in a public fashion)
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I asked this on Reddit and got downvoted. She's called a game dev. Has she ever developed a game that was published or gained any sort of traction? Why should I know her or care?
She got a poorly reviewed (at least, poorly reviewed among people who don't know her personally, euphemism ahoy) text-based game released on steam via Greenlight called Depression Quest. Before this, the only other time I'd heard of her was in (ironically) Nathan @ Kotaku's write-up of the Game Jam that went south because the mountain dew guy kept trying to manufacture drama between her and Jontron.

Remember this?

http://indiestatik.com/2014/03/31/most-expensive-game-jam/
 

Dave

Staff member
But why is she called a game dev? I've yet to see a game she actually got past the "this is my idea give me money" phase.[DOUBLEPOST=1408563014,1408562888][/DOUBLEPOST]A text based game? Really? :rofl:

Wow.
 
I asked this on Reddit and got downvoted. She's called a game dev. Has she ever developed a game that was published or gained any sort of traction? Why should I know her or care?
There's a side of the indie scene that is tied to GameJam hobbyists (i.e. folks who travel around the country using GameJams to network and build connections). She's fairly prominent among them, made more so by some of the attention that her blog gets writing about feminist issues in the gaming industry, and released one game on Greenlight that isn't especially notable for anything.

So if you don't follow that scene, it's unlikely you should know her.
 
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