[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.

Espy

Espy

Batman VS Superman: Department of Justice.

It's a great movie, they do a lot of paperwork, sue a hate group or two, have a beer after work and talk about how overall their lives are unfulfilling but their pensions are good.
 
filmfanatic

filmfanatic

Espy said:
Batman VS Superman: Department of Justice.

It's a great movie, they do a lot of paperwork, sue a hate group or two, have a beer after work and talk about how overall their lives are unfulfilling but their pensions are good.
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This isn't the paperwork you need, it's the paperwork you deserve.
 
Gryfter

Gryfter

If it's Man of Steel 2.... how come Batman gets top billing?










Answer....... cause he's the god damn Batman, that's why.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Don't get your hopes up for how Wonder Woman will be written in this movie, or in Justice League. The writer of both (and Man of Steel, The Dark Knight Rises, etc.), David S. Goyer, recently had this to say about She-Hulk:

I have a theory about She-Hulk. Which was created by a man, right? And at the time in particular I think 95% of comic book readers were men and certainly almost all of the comic book writers were men. So the Hulk was this classic male power fantasy. It’s like, most of the people reading comic books were these people like me who were just these little kids getting the shit kicked out of them every day… And so then they created She-Huk, right? Who was still smart… I think She-Hulk is the chick that you could fuck if you were Hulk, you know what I’m saying? … She-Hulk was the extension of the male power fantasy. So it’s like if I’m going to be this geek who becomes the Hulk then let’s create a giant green porn star that only the Hulk could fuck.
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If that's what he thinks of She-Hulk, then I can only imagine what he thinks of Wonder Woman.
 
Espy

Espy

figmentPez said:
Don't get your hopes up for how Wonder Woman will be written in this movie, or in Justice League. The writer of both (and Man of Steel, The Dark Knight Rises, etc.), David S. Goyer, recently had this to say about She-Hulk:



If that's what he thinks of She-Hulk, then I can only imagine what he thinks of Wonder Woman.
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Well I don't know jack about She-Hulk but considering Wonder Woman was supposedly an extension of her creators bondage stuff nothing is really surprising when it comes to why men create certain female characters.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Reading more in the article, he also thinks that the Martian Manhunter is a character that no one has ever heard of. Apparently he doesn't know that MM played a major role in the Justice League and JLU animated series, and was also a major character in Young Justice. So much for doing research on characters you're writing!
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

That's also a wildly innacurate portrayal of who She-Hulk is. She may have started off as just a female version of the Hulk without the rage thing, but she's evolved into one of the best feminist characters in comics, depending on writer of course.
 
Espy

Espy

figmentPez said:
Reading more in the article, he also thinks that the Martian Manhunter is a character that no one has ever heard of. Apparently he doesn't know that MM played a major role in the Justice League and JLU animated series, and was also a major character in Young Justice. So much for doing research on characters you're writing!
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Yeah, no, I think he's very right that the majority of people won't have any idea who that is. Honestly, outside of the major heroes most of the general public won't know all the secondary characters no matter how many cartoons they are in.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Espy said:
Yeah, no, I think he's very right that the majority of people won't have any idea who that is. Honestly, outside of the major heroes most of the general public won't know all the secondary characters no matter how many cartoons they are in.
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You're right, the majority of the public won't know who he is, but that's a far cry from the character only being known by guys who have never been laid.
 
tegid

tegid

Zero Esc said:
Tacking on Dawn of Justice makes me think they're trying to ape Marvel's recent titling (The Dark World, The Winter Soldier, Age of Ultron). Not that it's a big thing, but it's an example of how they have no idea why Marvel's movies are successful and will try to imitate whatever they can identify in hopes that it'll do the same for them.

Because really, Batman vs Superman. You don't need to add more. That title is its own thing without the extra bit.
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More like captain america: The firs avenger... But yeah, it still doesn't work.
 
CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Came here to post the same article. Goyer seems like an asshole.

Also why the fuck do you insult your own audience? And with the same kind of joke a high school bully would use (while talking about getting beaten up for being a nerd or whatever in the same interview)?

Plus talking about She-Hulk while obviously knowing nothing about the character other than her name and what she looks like. She's generally a pretty intelligent character (she's a lawyer for superpowered individuals last I read), and unlike Hulk, keeps that intelligence regardless of her form (though she spends most of her books as She-Hulk as opposed to Jenn).
 
Espy

Espy

Yeah, I don't know why anyone would think She-Hulk is a male nerd sex fantasy. It's not like she and lots women in comic books are anything like sex fantasies. I mean, whats sexy about a strong (but not as strong as a male) female in an ultra-sexy costume designed to show off her tits and ass? Nothing. Thats what.
 
Espy

Espy

So here's his whole comment:
Goyer:I have a theory about She-Hulk. Which was created by a man, right? And at the time in particular I think 95% of comic book readers were men and certainly almost all of the comic book writers were men. So the Hulk was this classic male power fantasy. It’s like, most of the people reading comic books were these people like me who were just these little kids getting the shit kicked out of them every day… And so then they created She-Huk, right? Who was still smart… I think She-Hulk is the chick that you could fuck if you were Hulk, you know what I’m saying? … She-Hulk was the extension of the male power fantasy. So it’s like if I’m going to be this geek who becomes the Hulk then let’s create a giant green porn star that only the Hulk could fuck.
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Sorry guys, that doesn't sound super far fetched. It may be completely wrong (after all, he says it's a "theory" and the conversations sounds pretty tongue in cheek in general) but I think in order to not see te logic in his theory is like the folks who think there's no misogyny in nerd culture.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
Espy said:
Sorry guys, that doesn't sound super far fetched.
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Except that Jennifer Walters is Bruce Banner's cousin. Her origin story is getting blood donated from Bruce Banner, turning her into the Hulk. Unless she's an incest fantasy as well, she was not designed as a fuck-toy for the Hulk.
 
CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Form what I know she was created to keep studio execs in charge of the Hulk tv series from trying a Bionic Woman thing and Marvel not having the rights to her.

Found this rebuttal article, and the author makes a lot of good points (also read Single Green Female if you're curious about She-Hulk, it's a great series).

Also yeah, he might have a point about the inherent misogyny of most She-version heroes/villains (which is there, I won't argue), but he puts his point out there in such a vulgar, insulting fashion that it's really lost, anyway.
 
Covar

Covar

Guys Goyer might be on to something, after all if anyone knows about female characters who are nothing more than male sex fantasies it would be the long time Zack Snyder collaborator.
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

I really wanted to respond about how She-Hulk is a lawyer and unlike her male-counterpart, quickly learned to use her abilities as a hero, but now every time I see Goyer's name, my head explodes in a white-hot rage.

Oh, and second, giant "F*** YOU!" to the misogynist prick host, Chris Mazin who said:"The real name for She-Hulk was Slut-Hulk. That was the whole point. Let’s just make this green chick with enormous boobs. And she’s Hulk strong but not Hulk massive, right? … She’s real lean, stringy…".
 
Espy

Espy

CynicismKills said:
Form what I know she was created to keep studio execs in charge of the Hulk tv series from trying a Bionic Woman thing and Marvel not having the rights to her.

Found this rebuttal article, and the author makes a lot of good points (also read Single Green Female if you're curious about She-Hulk, it's a great series).

Also yeah, he might have a point about the inherent misogyny of most She-version heroes/villains (which is there, I won't argue), but he puts his point out there in such a vulgar, insulting fashion that it's really lost, anyway.
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I do agree with you, but it's not hard to see how he got there. Also, I think it sounds like they weren't being terribly serious, in fact it sounded like they made some jokes but don't worry, rage away internet!

Covar said:
Guys Goyer might be on to something, after all if anyone knows about female characters who are nothing more than male sex fantasies it would be the long time Zack Snyder collaborator.
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That was actually my first thought too. God knows he has a terrible history of sexual objectification.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Batman gets top billing in the next SUPERMAN movie. David Goyer continues to be an idiot. And WB is pretty much guaranteeing my money won't be spent on their garbage.

Speaking of Goyer, he also had something to say recently about Martian Manhunter. Which further proves how much of a moron this guy is:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...ter-Comments-Are-Why-DC-Cant-Have-Nice-Things

"He can't be fucking called the Martian Manhunter because that's goofy. He can be called Manhunter... The whole deal with Martian Manhunter is he's an alien living amongst us... So he comes down to Earth and decides, unlike Superman who already exists in the world now, that he's just going to be a homicide detective... So instead of using super-powers and mind-reading and like, oh, I could figure out if the President's lying or whatever, he just decides to disguise himself as a human homicide detective. Dare to dream!"

"I would set it up like The Day After Tomorrow. We discover one of those Earth-like planets... So maybe like... we get the DNA code from that planet and then grow him in a petri dish here... He's like in Area 51 or something and we're just basically... doing biopsies on him."
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Bowielee

Bowielee

Espy said:
I do agree with you, but it's not hard to see how he got there. Also, I think it sounds like they weren't being terribly serious, in fact it sounded like they made some jokes but don't worry, rage away internet!


That was actually my first thought too. God knows he has a terrible history of sexual objectification.
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I think the main thing that people take umbrage with, besides the downright cromagnon tone, is that anyone who has actually read She-Hulk knows that she is the exact opposite of the usual empty headed scantily clad comic heroine trope. She is a strong, smart woman who isn't afraid of her sexuality or her femininity all while not taking any shit. She was also breaking the fourth wall long before Deadpool and often meta argued with the writer for sexualizing her when it wasn't on her own terms. The only way I could see someone interpreting the character I the way Goyer has would be if they only ever saw pictures of her.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Bowielee said:
I think the main thing that people take umbrage with, besides the downright cromagnon tone, is that anyone who has actually read She-Hulk knows that she is the exact opposite of the usual empty headed scantily clad comic heroine trope. She is a strong, smart woman who isn't afraid of her sexuality or her femininity all while not taking any shit. She was also breaking the fourth wall long before Deadpool and often meta argued with the writer for sexualizing her when it wasn't on her own terms. The only way I could see someone interpreting the character I the way Goyer has would be if they only ever saw pictures of her.
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Or maybe read John Byrnes' run on the title. From what I understand, he had something of an obsessive fetish with her.
 
filmfanatic

filmfanatic

Gerry Conway is the latest to chime in on the Goyer She-Hulk issue.

http://gerryconway.tumblr.com/post/86454069493/reading-the-the-remarks-attributed-to-david-goyer

Basically, it reminds him of a meeting he participated in at DC back in the '70s about how Marvel's sales were improving while DC's sales were stagnating. To the folks in charge, however, they didn't believe that Marvel had better stories, they thought that the fans just couldn't tell that Marvel was inferior to DC. To Conway, this sounds reminiscent of Goyer's attitude to comic fans and may be rather telling of Warner Bros. and DC themselves if it's Goyer they pick as their go-to guy.
 
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