Incidentally, tell me you've been reading the Kingkiller Chronicle. I've only read book one so far, but it seems you'd like it.I've always liked something between Nature and Science, as you describe them. The idea that in order to make something burst into flame, you need to magically manipulate the ambient heat in the air around it, and transfer that energy into it. And that it takes a skilled spellcaster to balance the transference of energies properly so as to not cause catastrophes when manipulating minute amounts of energy or atoms out of their natural order.
I've always liked describing my magical effects in, say, Dungeons and Dragons that way.
It's all about red, green, and white delivering a beatdown before the opponent even knows what's going on.Before coming into the thread and actually seeing the poll, my answer would have been a mix of blue and red.
I actually play like a complete asshole, and don't even really worry about winning. Sometimes it happens, but what's more fun for me is ticking off my friends who take it far more seriously by just counterspelling everything big and devestating they throw at me while I whittle them down slowly. Then eventually they get enough mana to wipe me out completely, but in a group game this invariably leaves them open for the kill to be dealt by someone else.It's all about red, green, and white delivering a beatdown before the opponent even knows what's going on.
Wouldn't that be Divine magic? or would it be elemental because it's a god weilding the elements, not someone calling upon the diety to act.... hmmm...big ass thor picture
NATURE!!!
Not necessarily. Think about Bleach, which doesn't call Zanpakto "magic" but that's pretty much what they are. A soul reaper gains power by learning the name of their sword, and then they gain more power by learning the name of the techniques they use. The names they learn give them more power, but won't give power to anyone else, and they aren't countered with words.6: Names Have Power and Mystical are both a bit iffy for me. NHP would just be about knowing the most powerful words or the most powerful counter to those words. It's more memorization than learned skill and Mystical can be interesting depending on how it's developed.
No way dude. It's all about artifacts and affinity.It's all about red, green, and white delivering a beatdown before the opponent even knows what's going on.
I just got the first two books for christmas, I'll be tucking into them after I finish the 2 warcraft books I've been dying to finish.Incidentally, tell me you've been reading the Kingkiller Chronicle. I've only read book one so far, but it seems you'd like it.
I don't think Pez is talking about it in terms of story weakness a la deus ex machina, but in that magic, when turned into chemical equation, isn't as interesting as when it could be and do anything. It's the same kind of criticism that many fantasy worlds fall under--you're dealing with a genre where you can do anything, and so many only want to repeat Tolken. In the same vein, magic to science because of real life--we already have real life.Basically, as we move closer to science, "because a wizard did it" doesn't cut it in setting a believable backdrop for your story.
And authors also use meaningless technobabble as just another way to be lazy. Saying that a character invented a quantum framistat (on the spot out of a gum wrapper and an alien crystal) to decouple the tachyon pulse field from the tritanium interlock cage, using "scientific genius!" is just as lazy as having the character suddenly have a magic ability that just happens to solve the problem at hand. It doesn't matter if you replace the science technobabble with magic arcanababble; it's still lazy.On the other hand, "a wizard did it" is a trope for a reason. Some authors use it as the lazy way out.
I think there are a lot of them.Actually, that sounds kinda awesome. BRB, adding Dresden Files to my read list
That's not quite what I was getting at. I didn't mean to limit the source of magic that severely, I just was trying to emphasize that magic doesn't have to have relate to underlying principles of a rational world. New magic abilities could occur every year on a mage's birthday, as long as that's just the way it happens. Magic should be like Just-So stories and wishing on stars. It should have a story or ritual behind it, and seem fitting or right on the surface, but still be the special case that is the exception to the rule. Magic is rare and special, but also should be laced with the ordinary at the same time. It should also have non-physical interations (tell someone about your wish and it won't come true.)I do get what Pez is saying and it intrigues me. I think it could be successfully written but would be difficult to do and keep it so that it's NOT Deus ex Machina. Magic in that case could be that new powers could only be discovered in cases of great duress.
It's not okay to believe in magic, unless it's the Jesus type.Wait...
you don't actually believe magic is real, do you?
And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way.
I believe that that there is a supernatural. I believe in God, that He is not bound by the physical laws that generally govern creation and that He can circumvent those laws at His choosing (but generally does not.) I also believe in angels and demons, and that they have a limited ability to act in this world in ways that cannot be studied via the scientific method.Wait...
you don't actually believe magic is real, do you?
And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way.
One of the reasons I think this is such a hot-button issue for me is because I see a lot of people who don't know what differentiates science from magic and alchemy. While there is a blurry line in fiction and history, there are very important differences. One of the things about magic is personality. If an alchemist does an experiment and it produces desired result A, while another five alchemists do that same experiment and all get failed result B, that very well may have happened because the first alchemist had a greater "understanding" of arcane knowledge and unquantifiable hidden principles (i.e. he was more worthy than the rest). With science, if one person gets A, while 5 more get B, then something was different about the experiment setup that produced A, and if that difference can be discovered then B can be changed to A for all scientists.
He means stories where all magic produces predictable results that can be scientifically studied, or where there's a scientific explanation for what the magic is (like midichlorians).What do you mean when you say magic as science (mages). Magic is not science, nor is science magic...
Well then the (mages) part is wrong. Mages for the most part study elemental forces (the fire, earth, wind, and water) - so it's more of a mystical arcane power source.He means stories where all magic produces predictable results that can be scientifically studied, or where there's a scientific explanation for what the magic is (like midichlorians).
How does that in any way contradict what I said? Yes, of course person A is scrutinized, but if it can be discovered how that desireable result was actually achieved, then everyone can then replicate that result. (I did neglect to mention the possibility that it was only an apparent result A, and did not actually achieve result A, but I was going with the assumption of actual success for purposes of simplification.)Uh, if 1 person gets A and 5 more get B, person A is scrutinized and has to explain why it's different.
How does that in any way contradict what I said? Yes, of course person A is scrutinized, but if it can be discovered how that desireable result was actually achieved, then everyone can then replicate that result. (I did neglect to mention the possibility that it was only an apparent result A, and did not actually achieve result A, but I was going with the assumption of actual success for purposes of simplification.)
That's one way of looking at it, if you're pursuing pure knowledge. However, if you're doing experiments with the intent to achieve a goal, then there is a desirable result. If you're trying to make a light bulb, you have a goal of finding a filament that will work for a certain amount of time. Now that I think about it, such experimentation is not actually science, since it's not working via the scientific method. (However, the scientific method can then be used when trying to figure out how to replicate results in the future.)Relax toto. There is no "desirable" result. There's a hypothesis to explain what's going on, and if the result doesn't show it, you modify the hypothesis.
That's not the scientific method, it's person A fucking up the experiment to prove a hypothesis.With science, if one person gets A, while 5 more get B, then something was different about the experiment setup that produced A, and if that difference can be discovered then B can be changed to A for all scientists.
Unless it's not scientific experimentation but inventive experimentation, in which case there was no hypothesis, until scientific experimentation began to explain why inventive experimentation succeeded.That's not the scientific method, it's person A fucking up the experiment to prove a hypothesis.
Unless it's not scientific experimentation but inventive experimentation, in which case there was no hypothesis, until scientific experimentation began to explain why inventive experimentation succeeded.
Admit it, you're a magician. Take your magic back to commiestan.Yeah, what the fuck ever, I'm just a fucking PhD SCIENTIST... I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about...
Well you sure as hell didn't read my explanation past the first sentence. So, no, you don't know I'm talking about. You may have a pretty good grasp of what the scientific method is, but you certainly haven't tried to understand what I'm saying beyond my failure to use the exact terminology you think I should.Yeah, what the fuck ever, I'm just a fucking PhD SCIENTIST... I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about...
You made unwarranted assumptions about what my statement meant. Rather than trying to understand something that could be interpreted multiple ways, you jumped ahead with your preconceptions and declared me wrong without even trying to consider what was being said in context.So, you make a vague statement. I call you on it, and you completely alter what you were saying about that vague statement. Gotcha.
You made unwarranted assumptions about what my statement meant. Rather than trying to understand something that could be interpreted multiple ways, you jumped ahead with your preconceptions and declared me wrong without even trying to consider what was being said in context.
With science, if one person gets A, while 5 more get B, then something was different about the experiment setup that produced A, and if that difference can be discovered then B can be changed to A for all scientists
The conversation is a discussion of science-based reality versus magic-based fiction. If I meant anything it was "With a science-based world..." However, I thought those reading were smart enough to reason such a conclusion without having to be overly wordy about it.And yet you mean engineering... dumbass.
I'd agree if I were actually trying to refute magic with scientific knowledge. However, I was trying to compare/contrast magic to science, and show how magic works much better when it is not science (or rather, takes place in a fiction where the scientific method cannot be applied.) You do appreciate the concept of comparing/contrasting two ideas to highlight the differences and examine what makes them unique right?Anime = Magic Discussion
To Gusto (and others with this sort of opinion).I've always liked something between Nature and Science, as you describe them. The idea that in order to make something burst into flame, you need to magically manipulate the ambient heat in the air around it, and transfer that energy into it. And that it takes a skilled spellcaster to balance the transference of energies properly so as to not cause catastrophes when manipulating minute amounts of energy or atoms out of their natural order.
That seems to be a professional defect for a lot of specialized science types... not using the terminology they use tends to make them think you're wrong... wonder how that works when communicating between specialities where they use slightly different terms for the same thing...You may have a pretty good grasp of what the scientific method is, but you certainly haven't tried to understand what I'm saying beyond my failure to use the exact terminology you think I should.
Ah ok.It doesn't break the laws of physics OF THE DRESDENVERSE. I'm not figmentPez arguing for actual, real magic here.
My whole fucking point was that the magic "system" is bound by logical rules, that's it. You fuckers extrapolate from that way too much.
or god forbid, the fate and transport of organic and inorganic chemical systems. thats why I play a fighterAh ok.
I guess my issue with the whole Logical System over Art thing is that if Magic was as difficult to learn as Advanced Biochemistry or Real Analysis I would be like "pfff I'm gonna go roll a rogue"
Yes. Ebooks should not cost the same as or more than the print version, no matter what BS the publisher says.is that expensive? i saw one for 8.99 and i thought it was expensive but i wasnt sure.
I'll just get used copies for $3 each. It's not helping the author, but somebody bought those copies at some point, so it's not stealing from him either like file-passing. wink wink.If anyone's interested in getting the kindle-friendly files (DRM free) for the Dresden..uh.. Files... let me know. wink wink.
Added at: 18:36
(except for Quotemander Prime)
Fair enough, but stop winking at me. I'm not some bald cougar at... um... wherever that happened to you.I'm not paying 10 dollars for an e-book. I own all books physically, plus the first graphic novel. And alllll that money I've now sent his way was thanks to someone file-passing me his first couple of books.
wink wink.
i don't see what's unusual about the price.Looking them up on the Kindle Store. 9.99 for an eBook lolwut
i don't see what's unusual about the price.
If they were smart, they'd include a free eBook download of the book WITH the book, like a lot of indie music artists do.Plus if you buy it in paper it's perfectly legal to scan it for your kindle or whatever for personal use, so you get "both versions" for the price of one.
It's ridiculous that publishing houses don't realize that without printing and distributing costs they could charge a buck or two for ebooks and not only drive their sales way, way, way up, but also make a profit for each copy anyway.
I was considering getting a kindle but when I saw I'd still have to pay 9 dollars for the book I wanted i just got the book.
I think jubilee is right up there with aqua man in how much crap she gets for her powers.Poor Jubilee...
Wasn't she depowered during M-Day? I know she was running around in power armor for a while.I think jubilee is right up there with aqua man in how much crap she gets for her powers.
I require sources to said material.Jubilee is a vampire now.
A sexy vampire that has sexy adventures with a young sexy female clone of wolverine.
"Jubilee is one of many individuals to be mass infected with a bio-engineered virus by a vampire suicide bomber. Jubilee is taken to the X-Men's headquarters, where they run tests on her, confirming that the virus is slowly but surely transforming her into a vampire, making her less and less able to handle sunlight."
"It appears that Jubilee has been successfully transformed into a vampire and temporarily did the same to Wolverine after he came to rescue her.[26] She remains a vampire and was being detained in a holding cell beneath Utopia for observation."
I wish I were quoting from a bad Fanfiction site, because it damn well feels that way."Jubilee has since gained the powers of a vampire from her transformation by the bite of Xarus, son of Dracula. Her powers include superhuman strength and speed, and the ability to turn into vapor. It's possible that she can heal much faster than a human.
As a vampire, Jubilee now possesses all of the weaknesses of a vampire. She must sustain herself on blood and avoid direct sunlight, garlic, silver, and religious symbols.
I know this pain.I wish I were quoting from a bad Fanfiction site, because it damn well feels that way.
Read the url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilation_LeeI have one question now... Why... the fuck... does she call herself Jubilee still?
That depends on wheter or not it's working... if it's not i'll totally settle for consuming your brain...are you coming on to me? O.O
Actually no. I don't think I even knew what X-Men were until I was in my 20s
But goddammit, if I just don't happen to like a bunch of whiny civil rights activist equivalents with a penchant for wearing spandex...
Why, is it not working?QP, you need to download and attach those gifbin gifs. hehe