Deliberately showing off breasts could be construed as public indecency, I'd guess. You theoretically (depending on clothing) only need to expose one breast at a time etc etc. But as long as she's not deliberately flaunting her breasts, I don't really see how such a thing could be tried. "Clothing covering the breast"?
The Random Crap Thread 2: It Hits the Fan.
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Only at home with hamburgers (I like them to much and take to big of bites...) But not in public, ever - even if burgers are involved.
Cajungal
Staff member
I know that my sister chooses to breastfeed instead of use a bottle when she can because it's one less thing to carry. No need to worry wherever she is about getting the temperature right either. She does use bottles too; the babysitter and the grandparents keep frozen milk, as well. As far as I know, she hasn't publicly breast fed that much, but when she has, she's used a little towel thing to cover herself.
What gets me is that many women who I've seen breastfeed seem to try and be as discreet as possible, but people go out of their way to look when it would be just as easy to think to themselves, "I don't want to see that. I think I'll look over there instead." Instead, they decide to stare at the mother as if she's doing something disgusting. There's something wrong with a culture whenever there are sexual images everywhere which are perfectly fine, but a woman using her breasts for something besides washing cars or making a music video more popular is yucky. (Sorry about the added personal rant...)
This.
If you have a problem with a woman breastfeeding in public, then you need to leave. She doesn't need to change a thing.
Less weed -> less munchies
More seriously: if it's truly problematic, it might have a medical or psychological origin. Doubtful, and not worth fretting over unnecessarily, but anything from tapeworm over certain bowel disorders through half-a-dozen eating disorders or depression can cause problems like insatiable appetite. Oh, and pregnancy, of course, jsut to make sure you can have all the bases covered for hypochondriacing properly
Assuming there's nothing serious wrong with you, there are some things to try. One important thing is that the feeling of hunger - and satisfaction - is governed by the stomach. Eating too fast will cause you to eat too much before your brain registers "oh, hey, I'm full". Likewise, if the signal "okay, we're full, stop eating" doesn't reach your brain, it'll keep thinking you're hungry. Chewing more slowly can get the mesage across more clearly, and there's always "drink half a litre of water" as well.
Still, if it's persistent, the most likely culprit is actually a dietary insufficiency: you're getting lots and lots of X, Y and Z, but are still lacking in, say, Q. Your body keeps asking for more food to get more Q, but if you don't know what Q is (could be any type of vitamin or mineral or whatever), obviously you can't compensate properly.
Another possibility is that your body is compensating after a long stressfull/high-energy period. In your case, perhaps the wind-down after Comic-con? Suddenyl your mind finds itself less occupied and tries to fill the time itself - resulting in a "craving" feeling, which we usually translate into hunger. Compare to someone who stops smoking: they constantly feel like a cigarette, which translates into more eating/snacking because it seems like they're hungry. Whixh, yes, in a roundabout way, brings us back to those munchies, which are the same thing but more extreme.
But first things first: you're eating enough, right?
[DOUBLEPOST=1344123132][/DOUBLEPOST]
Is it OK to stare if you're not disgusted but just trying to get a peak at ze boobiez OMG?
Hee, thanks for your ideas!Less weed -> less munchies
More seriously: if it's truly problematic, it might have a medical or psychological origin. Doubtful, and not worth fretting over unnecessarily, but anything from tapeworm over certain bowel disorders through half-a-dozen eating disorders or depression can cause problems like insatiable appetite. Oh, and pregnancy, of course, jsut to make sure you can have all the bases covered for hypochondriacing properly
Assuming there's nothing serious wrong with you, there are some things to try. One important thing is that the feeling of hunger - and satisfaction - is governed by the stomach. Eating too fast will cause you to eat too much before your brain registers "oh, hey, I'm full". Likewise, if the signal "okay, we're full, stop eating" doesn't reach your brain, it'll keep thinking you're hungry. Chewing more slowly can get the mesage across more clearly, and there's always "drink half a litre of water" as well.
Still, if it's persistent, the most likely culprit is actually a dietary insufficiency: you're getting lots and lots of X, Y and Z, but are still lacking in, say, Q. Your body keeps asking for more food to get more Q, but if you don't know what Q is (could be any type of vitamin or mineral or whatever), obviously you can't compensate properly.
Another possibility is that your body is compensating after a long stressfull/high-energy period. In your case, perhaps the wind-down after Comic-con? Suddenyl your mind finds itself less occupied and tries to fill the time itself - resulting in a "craving" feeling, which we usually translate into hunger. Compare to someone who stops smoking: they constantly feel like a cigarette, which translates into more eating/snacking because it seems like they're hungry. Whixh, yes, in a roundabout way, brings us back to those munchies, which are the same thing but more extreme.
But first things first: you're eating enough, right?
I think part of it is me winding donw from SDCC, and another part is that I eat a lot of small meals a day so I feel like I'm always eating. And I love snacking on fruit...I snack on it as much as I can. I promise I do try and eat slowly - that was one of my goals from my new workout/diet. But saying I'm lacking in Q is a thought, quite possibly water. I'm a terrible water drinker and have been hospitalized for dehydration many many times. Maybe I need to drink a glass of water before eating?
On nom!
I dont really care if a woman is breastfeeding her child in public.I was breastfed as a child,so were almost all of the people that are complaining about breastfeeding in public.Dont see the big deal,it is a natural thing to do.
DOES NOT COMPUTE I'm completely the opposite - I used to be pretty close to a potomane. Even now when I'm deliberately not drinking too much, I regularly finish 2 2litre-bottles a day. Heh
Plenty of online tutorials on youtube. It's like, once a girl hits puberty, she has to post an instructional makeup video/review/gigglefest/vlog series in order to advance.
--Patrick
Well, the alternative is to have an infant in your immediate vicinity who is screaming its head off like a fire engine. Given the choice between the two, I'll take the potential partial nudity.
--Patrick
I think the main problem in the US is that people here only see breasts as a sexual object instead of what they are intended for by nature. Looking at a boob is "dirty". I breastfed my daughter until she was just about 10 months old. We went every where. Once I had to feed her in the parking lot of Target because she was hungry and I wasn't about to try to drive home to nurse her when I needed to go shopping. I put a blanket on the driver's window plus another over the dash and steering wheel so no one would get an eyeful of my chest. She hated having her head covered and would always pull the blanket off. It made things interesting.[DOUBLEPOST=1344126818][/DOUBLEPOST]
Yes, compromise. Sure some middle ground can be found that is acceptable all parties.
I take it for granted that pretty much no instance of breastfeeding will ever go to court. But neither will a number of other things that aren't considered entirely appropriate under all circumstances. I don't think this is a criminal/misdemeanor/whatever kind of discussion, but rather one of what is or is not appropriate conduct in public, and what can reasonably be done to make public breastfeeding more generally acceptable.
The temperature issue is a good point, and a towel placed for appropriate modesty seems like a reasonable step. As to the people who deliberately take notice of breastfeeding... Well, people can and do ignore all kinds of things they object to on a daily basis, but that doesn't really mean they can forget it's taking place. Take Frank's example of people eating with their mouth open, generally considered very poor manners. If someone sitting next to you is doing that, sure, you probably just look the other way and try to ignore what's going on rather than raise a fuss, but it doesn't mean it's easy to do that. If people perceive conduct that they don't think is appropriate, they might object to it by making their displeasure known. What I think is needed in the case of breastfeeding in public is some way to make the people who are offended by it to accept or at least tolerate it.
Quite a sweeping statement there. Do you have any qualifiers for this, or do you consider any kind of breastfeeding in public as completely acceptable and beyond any form of criticism?
That might be a case of false choice. I believe there are alternative options between feeding an infant by taking out one's boobies for all to see, and letting the child go hungry. An extreme option would be to ask the mother and child to leave the area, which is against the law in some places but perfectly permissible in others. Surely we can come up with some middle ground here.
My wife breastfeeds anywhere and everywhere. To my knowledge she hasn't been confronted about it, although we live in a pretty granola area. She generally covers herself when she is in public and breastfeeding, as well.
But it's literally weighing the right of someone to feed their infant child to the right of someone to not be offended by it.
The right compromise is don't fucking look.
Yes, well, you see, there's a difference between chewing with your mouth open, and breastfeeding. Acecptance of one or the other is, of course, culturally determined. Either can be considered in good or bad taste in public, depending on where you live. I don't think a lot of Afghani women will be breastfeeding in public any time soon, while no Zulu will look twice at a woman breastfeeding.
The difference, and the reason why some, like me, think that the middle ground is fairly narrow and compromise is only needed to curb some extremes, is that breastfeeding is natural, normal, and necessary. Not to mention, the avoidance of other things that are at least as annoying - given the choice, rather a mother breastfeeding than a baby crying
We can't live/exist without breastfeeding. It being unaccepted only has to do with cramped sexual morals more appropriate for Victorian England than for a self-respecting modern society. It's purely a cultural thing, which, when examined from the outside, has no ground whatsoever to exist, other than "OMG BOOBS". None. It's not indescent, it's not suggestive, it's not perverted, it's not forbidden by God, it's not dirty, it's not extremely disruptive of other things. I'm not going to wax lyrical about "wonders of nature" or whatever, but it's behaviour that, in general, is normal, natural, wanted in society, and should be accepted. Saying breastfeeding is "wrong" is short-sighted and only shows that you're judging from a very narrow point of view, not being able to break free from cultural conditioning.[DOUBLEPOST=1344128130][/DOUBLEPOST]Just to add: I do think it's OK to regulate it, to an extent, in the sense that "breastfeeding" shouldn't be considered a free pass for public nudity/exhibitionism. I've never really known any woman to consider it as such, but y'know. Of course, the limits of what is considered indescent are culturally determined, so there you go...
Do me a favor: the next time you're going to quibble about semantics, just skip it and don't waste my time. Argue the real point or don't. Or are you seriously so fucking stupid that you think I'm advocating something ridiculous, like letting a grown man breastfeed in public?
Sounds like a plan. Any female volunteers to help me make a statement?
Cajungal
Staff member
As long as you're not afraid of a little milk in your eye.Is it OK to stare if you're not disgusted but just trying to get a peak at ze boobiez OMG?
Who's afraid of that?
Alright, I'll clarify so you won't have to waste your time by jumping to any more absurd conclusions.
MAKE YOUR POINT.
Fine, you think people who have a problem with women breastfeeding in public should leave. Fine, women who breastfeed in public don't need to change anything. Now either clarify these as I requested (breastfeeding ok with a smock, towel, bare-chested, or what?) and present your case (why should people who don't think the way you do in this matter need to leave? why shouldn't the women make any effort to consider others even in the slightest? why is it wrong to even discuss the issue of breastfeeding in public?), or take that magnificent contribution of yours and shove it where the sun don't shine.
No, I don't think any woman simply whips off their top and starts breastfeeding. Yes, I've seen (noticed) women breastfeed. The way it has been done 'bare-chested' depended on what kind of shirt they were wearing. It was either lifting up the hem of their shirt to above one breast so the baby could feed, or to open a few buttons from the top to enable the same. Or at least that's what it looked like to me, I didn't stop to stare.
Read my post above.
Your sensitivity to "nude" or whatever it is that annoys you, is purely cultural conditioning with no good reason. Their need to feed a baby is natural, necessary, healthy, and whatever else you care to name.
I'm all ears if you have an actual reason to think women shouldn't breastfeed in public, other than "sensibilities".
You see, if it's all culture, you can discuss pro and contra, but it'll usually be a wash (say, eating with mouth open or closed). If it's all sensible reasons, you can discuss pro and contra (breastfeeding vs bottle feeding - both have objective advantages and disadvantages) and try to reach the "best" solution. If one side has cultural reasons and the other side has factual reasons, that culture should probably take a good long look at how/why those reasons came into being, and perhaps change their view.
I'm not sure I agree with you on all the points you made.
As I understood, this discussion started by Frank was about offense taken to breastfeeding in public, which is, by definition, an activity taken in a social context. More specifically, we are examining the negative reactions taken by individuals or groups of individuals when they notice a mother publically breastfeeding a baby. Now, human interaction is not fully based on rationality, but such interaction is still a fundamental factor in this thread. Human behavior is strongly influenced by social norms (I believe you term them "sensibilities"), and I think it is very difficult to discuss issues with social implications while ignoring such social constructs, as I guess you are suggesting here. In my mind, a strictly utilitarian evaluation of breastfeeding in a not-strictly-utilitarian environment kind of takes too much of the "public" out of "breastfeeding in public".
However, if you wish, we can attempt to discover the "best" solution, according to what I think are your "sensible reasons". I would think such a solution is an interplay of the following properties:
1. It provides the baby with sufficiently healthy nourishment
2. It inconveniences the mother as little as possible
3. It creates as little discomfort as possible to other people
I further state that:
4. Seeing a woman breastfeed a baby in public creates non-insignificant discomfort to a non-insignificant number of people, due to social taboos
5. Sufficiently healthy and nourishing alternatives are available, the use of which is not against social taboos. These alternatives include bottle feeding, whether formula or extracted
6. Even when breastfeeding, efforts can be made by the mother to decrease the discomfort created to other people, through either covering herself such as with a towel, or moving to a more discreet location
7. The efforts made mentioned in 6. usually little inconvenience the mother
If we accept these as true, then it would seem to me that bottle feeding, moving to a restroon or a purpose built nursing room, or to at least using something to cover themselves would all yield a better outcome for the whole than a mother simply beginning to breastfeed a child in public. Yet, some people seem quite convinced that accepting any kind of breastfeeding is the only way to go, that the matter is self-evident, and that anyone who thinks differently should STFU or GTFO. Well, I'm not convinced. Show me where I'm wrong.
I believe the current argument will never be definitively resolved, mostly because it completely depends on context. The "natural function" argument gets destroyed when you realize that permitting things merely because they are necessary/natural/biological would allow me to piss with impunity into an empty drink bottle (whether in the open or behind a scarf) rather than "moving to a more discrete location." The only legitimate determining factor (for breastfeeding, but likely for pissing as well) is whether or not the group of people within viewing distance will take offense. Laws and mores attempt to give everyone a head start on making this determination, but all it really takes is a quick survey of the people closest to you to determine how the immediate future will unfold.
--Patrick
--Patrick
It's right around the point where you assume that the people who are shocked or offended by the sight of the baby eating in an entirely natural way are actually negatively impacted by it in any meaningful way. Add the fact that you're suggesting that the mother should physically move to a different place, and that that's a smaller inconvenience than for the other people to just not watch.
We don't need to have women wearing fucking burkas just to feed their kids.
Then again, maybe I've become desensitized. Breasts just don't seem like a big deal to me anymore after I've seen so many at college, all around, women who don't care about wearing shirts all the time, they just don't seem to matter. Just breasts, all the time, until they aren't special. Maybe if you tried seeing more breasts, TommiR, then you wouldn't feel this way. Confront your fears. Seize the moment. Don't let the mysteries of the breasts dominate your life.
Then again, maybe I've become desensitized. Breasts just don't seem like a big deal to me anymore after I've seen so many at college, all around, women who don't care about wearing shirts all the time, they just don't seem to matter. Just breasts, all the time, until they aren't special. Maybe if you tried seeing more breasts, TommiR, then you wouldn't feel this way. Confront your fears. Seize the moment. Don't let the mysteries of the breasts dominate your life.
I love not being able to see new posts.
Why is this thread coming up all discombobulated? I see Tommi's post as the final one, but yet two posts made earlier today are in the middle of the page. The post permalink numbers are all wrong, too. Tommi's post from yesterday is 5740, but steinman's latest post from today is 5723.
xenforo is having some problems displaying large threads correctly. dave is looking into the cause.
Just gonna keep posting until I can see the next page.