My Fault I'm Female

[Tinwhistler]

Yeah, what Chibi said is just more of the bullshit "oh women are just so different, these problems are just because they're so fundamentally different"

heh. I don't think it is pure BS personally consider that women are different in terms of their logic and things. If human do think somewhat similar, then men and women wouldn't have so much problem with each other (what I have observe) the successful couple (long term commitment and marriage) usually understand each other or at least know what the other is talking about or at least crack the "code" of course not all code are the same. What I finally learn about my wife may not apply to other women's thinking.[/QUOTE]

So why isn't it just that different people have different logic? My mother and I certainly do not think of things on the same terms. Neither do my best friend and I. Since the three of us are women, by what you've posted, shouldn't we all have the same logic?
I think different people look at things differently, have varying styles of communication, and handle stress/conflict differently. It has very little to do with being male or female.[/QUOTE]

Here comes the science:
10 Big Differences Between Men’s and Women’s Brains | Masters of Healthcare
To sum up
* Men tend to focus on one hemisphere of the brain while processing information, while women tend to use both. This makes dyslexia more common in men, for instance.
* inferior-parietal lobule (IPL) is typically significantly larger in men
* Two sections of the brain responsible for language were found to be larger in women
* Women typically have a larger deep limbic system than men
* in men, the right amygdala is activated and in women, the left amygdala is activated. The amygdala is the area of the brain activated during pain, and it is theorized that this is why men tend to have higher pain thresholds
* women have a thicker parietal region of the brain, which hinders the ability to mentally rotate objects, which partially explains why men tend to have stronger spatial abilities

Men and women's brains ARE physiologically different, and as a consequence, each sees the world slightly differently. That doesn't make one gender 'better' than the other (though each gender has areas that it tends to excel at), and certainly is no excuse for sexism. But isn't it better to recognize these trends and differences than to pretend that they don't exist?

 

[Tinwhistler]

Here comes the science:
10 Big Differences Between Men’s and Women’s Brains | Masters of Healthcare
To sum up
* Men tend to focus on one hemisphere of the brain while processing information, while women tend to use both. This makes dyslexia more common in men, for instance.
* inferior-parietal lobule (IPL) is typically significantly larger in men
* Two sections of the brain responsible for language were found to be larger in women
* Women typically have a larger deep limbic system than men
* in men, the right amygdala is activated and in women, the left amygdala is activated. The amygdala is the area of the brain activated during pain, and it is theorized that this is why men tend to have higher pain thresholds
* women have a thicker parietal region of the brain, which hinders the ability to mentally rotate objects, which partially explains why men tend to have stronger spatial abilities

Men and women's brains ARE physiologically different, and as a consequence, each sees the world slightly differently. That doesn't make one gender 'better' than the other (though each gender has areas that it tends to excel at), and certainly is no excuse for sexism. But isn't it better to recognize these trends and differences than to pretend that they don't exist?

They have started doing studies to see how the brain of a person diagnosed with gender dysphoria differs from the men and women without. While (as far as I am aware of) these studies are still very much in its early stages the preliminary conclusion has been that in the brains examined that they really are 'wired' differently and the size of certain lobes come closer to the dimensions of the 'other' gender rather than the born sex.

Regardless of the outcome of this study I know who I am but it's still fascinating stuff.[/QUOTE]

I've read some stuff around that, too. Definitely fascinating stuff. It goes a long way to explaining the "I've always felt like a man/women trapped in the wrong body" kind of thing that is often heard when people with gender identity issues give interviews. I don't think there's a good official clinical term for the range of gender identity issues people can have, as both "gender dysphoria" and "gender identity disorder" tend to imply that there's something 'wrong' that can be 'fixed', rather than something 'different' that can be examined and understood.

 

[Necronic]

Yeah, what Chibi said is just more of the bullshit "oh women are just so different, these problems are just because they're so fundamentally different"

heh. I don't think it is pure BS personally consider that women are different in terms of their logic and things. If human do think somewhat similar, then men and women wouldn't have so much problem with each other (what I have observe) the successful couple (long term commitment and marriage) usually understand each other or at least know what the other is talking about or at least crack the "code" of course not all code are the same. What I finally learn about my wife may not apply to other women's thinking.[/QUOTE]

So why isn't it just that different people have different logic? My mother and I certainly do not think of things on the same terms. Neither do my best friend and I. Since the three of us are women, by what you've posted, shouldn't we all have the same logic?
I think different people look at things differently, have varying styles of communication, and handle stress/conflict differently. It has very little to do with being male or female.[/QUOTE]

Here comes the science:
10 Big Differences Between Men’s and Women’s Brains | Masters of Healthcare
To sum up
* Men tend to focus on one hemisphere of the brain while processing information, while women tend to use both. This makes dyslexia more common in men, for instance.
* inferior-parietal lobule (IPL) is typically significantly larger in men
* Two sections of the brain responsible for language were found to be larger in women
* Women typically have a larger deep limbic system than men
* in men, the right amygdala is activated and in women, the left amygdala is activated. The amygdala is the area of the brain activated during pain, and it is theorized that this is why men tend to have higher pain thresholds
* women have a thicker parietal region of the brain, which hinders the ability to mentally rotate objects, which partially explains why men tend to have stronger spatial abilities

Men and women's brains ARE physiologically different, and as a consequence, each sees the world slightly differently. That doesn't make one gender 'better' than the other (though each gender has areas that it tends to excel at), and certainly is no excuse for sexism. But isn't it better to recognize these trends and differences than to pretend that they don't exist?[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, all that heretical nonsense is bothering me. The whole problem is that, and I checked this out with the Z-dog, men are from Mars and women are from Venus. (in all seriousness I wish I had read that book before I ran my last relationship into the ground)

 

[Officer_Charon]

They have started doing studies to see how the brain of a person diagnosed with gender dysphoria differs from the men and women without. While (as far as I am aware of) these studies are still very much in its early stages the preliminary conclusion has been that in the brains examined that they really are 'wired' differently and the size of certain lobes come closer to the dimensions of the 'other' gender rather than the born sex.

Regardless of the outcome of this study I know who I am but it's still fascinating stuff.

I've read some stuff around that, too. Definitely fascinating stuff. It goes a long way to explaining the "I've always felt like a man/women trapped in the wrong body" kind of thing that is often heard when people with gender identity issues give interviews. I don't think there's a good official clinical term for the range of gender identity issues people can have, as both "gender dysphoria" and "gender identity disorder" tend to imply that there's something 'wrong' that can be 'fixed', rather than something 'different' that can be examined and understood.[/QUOTE]

There is quite a bit of opposition against those terms, because it makes it seems we're all mentally ill, but there's not really a good alternative. The upside though is that because it is listed as such a lot of it is covered by health care. [/QUOTE]

I had wondered if that was going to be the case... when you start quantifying things like physical indicators of possible gender dysphoria, you open up the doors for folks to either label TG folks as defective or ill, as well as setting up a possible screening target later on.

.... or maybe I need to get some sleep and not post when I'm so tired.

 

[Wasabi Poptart]

I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

 

[Wasabi Poptart]

I agree that it is a combination of both. Things aren't that cut and dried to be completely one or the other.

 

[Tinwhistler]

I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

No dispute from me. The brain is incredibly malleable.

But to bring it back to Chibis initial statement, what i got from what he said was basically a logical argument: "If there were no gender differences between how men and women think, then we wouldn't have these gender stereotypes because everyone would think similarly", which , to some degree, is true. These differences in brain structure between the genders create trends in behavior and ways of thinking. Individuals may vary dramatically from these trends, but over a larger general population, these trends are quantifiable.

 

[Chibibar]

I agree that it is a combination of both. Things aren't that cut and dried to be completely one or the other.

I believe it is both, but there are some basic aspect of male and female that are same across each gender that can't be change (at least not without medication, surgery, and therapy, but even then, somethings can't be change.... yet)

---------- Post added at 10:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------

I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

No dispute from me. The brain is incredibly malleable.

But to bring it back to Chibis initial statement, what i got from what he said was basically a logical argument: "If there were no gender differences between how men and women think, then we wouldn't have these gender stereotypes because everyone would think similarly", which , to some degree, is true. These differences in brain structure between the genders create trends in behavior and ways of thinking. Individuals may vary dramatically from these trends, but over a larger general population, these trends are quantifiable.[/QUOTE]

I think you explain my thoughts better than me (get out of my head)

After re-reading everything again, I believe you hit it in the head (pun intended)

As individuals, we are vastly different from each other. The female population of our forum thinks differently from one female to another. Same goes the male counterpart.

But when you start comparing say... all females in Dallas vs all male in Dallas, you can start getting a general trend between the sexes. It is NOT 100%, but you can definitely see the difference between male and female. That is where my generalization comes from really.

Of course, some nurture factor DO come into play if the female were brought up as "tomboy" (I hated that term) and have more "male" thinking or a guy with more female influence think more like a female than male.

 

[Wasabi Poptart]

I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

No dispute from me. The brain is incredibly malleable.

But to bring it back to Chibis initial statement, what i got from what he said was basically a logical argument: "If there were no gender differences between how men and women think, then we wouldn't have these gender stereotypes because everyone would think similarly", which , to some degree, is true. These differences in brain structure between the genders create trends in behavior and ways of thinking. Individuals may vary dramatically from these trends, but over a larger general population, these trends are quantifiable.[/QUOTE]

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Chazwozel]

I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

Yeah, the way your pituitary gland and hormone secretion works is completely different from a man's as well... You also are evolutionarily designed to make and take care of babies, while men evolved to get your attention quick enough to mate with you.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

No dispute from me. The brain is incredibly malleable.

But to bring it back to Chibis initial statement, what i got from what he said was basically a logical argument: "If there were no gender differences between how men and women think, then we wouldn't have these gender stereotypes because everyone would think similarly", which , to some degree, is true. These differences in brain structure between the genders create trends in behavior and ways of thinking. Individuals may vary dramatically from these trends, but over a larger general population, these trends are quantifiable.[/QUOTE]

Men and women function on massively different physiological scales. It ranges from life expectancy to the types of cancers one is predisposed to. Men and women have differences. Period. Which is why I can't stand feminism to a point. There are certain things men do (are evolutionarily made to do) better than women and visa versa. Instead of trying to equalize the genders entirely we should celebrate and encourage our differences.

 

[Rob King]

I remember someone getting on about that a while ago on a show or something. He was talking about how a feminist got up in his face and started telling him about how she could do anything a man could just as well. He stepped back and said "No, you can't. And I can't do some things that women can do. Do you expect me to have a fucking baby in nine months?"

It can go a bit far. Men and women are different, and perhaps it's possible to plot the gender-trends on a graph or whatever, but sometimes it goes too far the other way, too, and then it becomes "Men and women are so irreconcilably different."

 

[makare]

I don't see how the physical ability to carry a child translates into the inequality women suffer in the work arena.

You can carry a child so you cant be a ceo? what are we talking about exactly here, what are these things women cant do?

 

[Rob King]

I don't see how the physical ability to carry a child translates into the inequality women suffer in the work arena.

You can carry a child so you cant be a ceo? what are we talking about exactly here, what are these things women cant do?

Impregnate a woman? Grow a fierce mustache?

I'm not talking about equality here. I'm a little bit talking about how there are differences between the sexes, but I'm mostly just making a joke at this point.

 

[makare]

those are also not job things.


also i know a woman with a fu manchu who would beg to differ.

 

[Rob King]

See the edit:

I'm not talking about equality here. I'm a little bit talking about how there are differences between the sexes, but I'm mostly just making a joke at this point.

 

[makare]

it's ok. im not raging or anything.

 

[phil]

Chicks make horrible male strippers.

 

[Element 117]

See the edit:

I'm not talking about equality here. I'm a little bit talking about how there are differences between the sexes, but I'm mostly just making a joke at this point.

 

[Rob King]

Chicks make horrible male strippers.

Strangely enough, the reverse is not always true.

 

[Tinwhistler]

I don't see how the physical ability to carry a child translates into the inequality women suffer in the work arena.

You can carry a child so you cant be a ceo? what are we talking about exactly here, what are these things women cant do?

Women are making progress. Slowly, yes, but still making progress. There are more than a dozen high powered women ceos out there now in the fortune 500. Sure, it's only a handful, but it's more than none, and the numbers grow year after year. This last election, we narrowly had a woman President or Vice President. That would have been unheard of in the past. Change happens, but it happens slowly. It takes time for entrenched ideas to die out (usually along with the aging population that refuses to give them up). We can look to the future and hope that a woman will have the exact same opportunities for any field she wishes to go into that a man does. The reverse for men will hopefully also be true for those fields that tend to be women-dominated (though, I believe there are less of those than male-dominated fields).

Women will probably always lag in some fields, however--just as men do in other fields. While there are some exceptional women MMA fighters, for instance, the sport takes a level of aggression and strength that is not typical to the gender. I expect that there will always be more men attracted to this kind of sport, as only one example. We can't look to the future and hope that all jobs will be equally participated in by both women and men, because simply, some jobs will tend to appeal to each gender's base nature more than some others.

 

[phil]

he's younger than me, and I feel weird knowing that.

 

[makare]

thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

 

[Rob King]

thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

I'm pretty sure that's not what's being said.

Circumstances can change. Culture can change. Women find themselves treated as equals to men, not subservient.

But equal does not mean the same. I sincerely believe that men on the whole will continue to make better soldiers, and that women will make better caregivers (just to give two examples). It's how our race has evolved, and that's why I believe that gender roles will persist. The gender roles didn't just happen spontaneously. But we have come too far as a race for gender roles to be concrete rules, hemming in the thousands upon thousands of outliers.

Women might be predisposed toward something. But when it comes down to a woman, generalizations are unfair.

 

[phil]

I hear women make better assassins 'cause people don't expect them to.

 

[makare]

thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

I'm pretty sure that's not what's being said.

Circumstances can change. Culture can change. Women find themselves treated as equals to men, not subservient.

But equal does not mean the same. I sincerely believe that men on the whole will continue to make better soldiers, and that women will make better caregivers (just to give two examples). It's how our race has evolved, and that's why I believe that gender roles will persist. The gender roles didn't just happen spontaneously. But we have come too far as a race for gender roles to be concrete rules, hemming in the thousands upon thousands of outliers.

Women might be predisposed toward something. But when it comes down to a woman, generalizations are unfair.[/QUOTE]

Yes men and women are different, we learn that the first time we play doctor under the playground slide, my point is- so what? Once society gave the OK for men to stay home and be caregivers they do fine. If that role is specifically designated to women for whatever reason why can men do it? Why are women able to do male jobs? Maybe they don't do them the same way but the result is the same.

I think it is both nature and nurture that makes a person but mostly nurture.

 

[Hailey Knight]

thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

I'm pretty sure that's not what's being said.

Circumstances can change. Culture can change. Women find themselves treated as equals to men, not subservient.

But equal does not mean the same. I sincerely believe that men on the whole will continue to make better soldiers, and that women will make better caregivers (just to give two examples). It's how our race has evolved, and that's why I believe that gender roles will persist. The gender roles didn't just happen spontaneously. But we have come too far as a race for gender roles to be concrete rules, hemming in the thousands upon thousands of outliers[/QUOTE]

Like they're separate, but still equal.\

EDIT: makare, you damn ninja!

 

[makare]

mmm im a ninja

 

[Element 117]

if only there was a website where women could go and talk about how hard those differences can be some times.....

And if only there was such a place for guys!

(( well, not really the exact same, but))

 

[Rob King]

Yes men and women are different, we learn that the first time we play doctor under the playground slide, my point is- so what? Once society gave the OK for men to stay home and be caregivers they do fine. If that role is specifically designated to women for whatever reason why can men do it? Why are women able to do male jobs? Maybe they don't do them the same way but the result is the same.

I think it is both nature and nurture that makes a person but mostly nurture.

The nature vs. nurture is way bigger than me, so I won't even go there.

As for 'so what?' It's not really 'so anything' to me. Like I said, I believe in equality of all individuals regardless of race or gender or anything else. I'm not suggesting that we hem anybody in. I'm just saying that even if we're equal, and even if a man and a woman are allowed to aspire the same things, and even while we try to level the playing field so that they can achieve the same things, we shouldn't be deluded into thinking that we are the same. There are inherent differences. Do they matter? I don't know. But they're there.

And there are differences all over the place. I believe in the equality of all races too, but compared to whites, blacks have 1/10 the number of skin cancer cases, and native Americans have a much higher rate of alcoholism. Do those differences matter? Again, probably not, but they're worth acknowledging.

That's it. Equality is important to me, but I just don't want to see people thinking that equality means sameness. I don't like seeing that anywhere, but the fact is that it's a rather ubiquitous misconception. It comes up in the education system, race debates, feminism, &c. and it's a damning and harmful mistake to be making when we look at things on the culture-wide level.

 

[Chazwozel]

thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

I'm pretty sure that's not what's being said.

Circumstances can change. Culture can change. Women find themselves treated as equals to men, not subservient.

But equal does not mean the same. I sincerely believe that men on the whole will continue to make better soldiers, and that women will make better caregivers (just to give two examples). It's how our race has evolved, and that's why I believe that gender roles will persist. The gender roles didn't just happen spontaneously. But we have come too far as a race for gender roles to be concrete rules, hemming in the thousands upon thousands of outliers.

Women might be predisposed toward something. But when it comes down to a woman, generalizations are unfair.[/QUOTE]

Yes men and women are different, we learn that the first time we play doctor under the playground slide, my point is- so what? Once society gave the OK for men to stay home and be caregivers they do fine. If that role is specifically designated to women for whatever reason why can men do it? Why are women able to do male jobs? Maybe they don't do them the same way but the result is the same.

I think it is both nature and nurture that makes a person but mostly nurture.[/QUOTE]

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

 

[Bones]

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

and called it Yankee doodle dandy?

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

if only there was a website where women could go and talk about how hard those differences can be some times.....

And if only there was such a place for guys!

(( well, not really the exact same, but))

The safe haven for men to talk about their problems is called EVERYWHERE IN THE FUCKING WORLD, LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PLACE

 

[Chazwozel]

if only there was a website where women could go and talk about how hard those differences can be some times.....

And if only there was such a place for guys!

(( well, not really the exact same, but))

The safe haven for men to talk about their problems is called EVERYWHERE IN THE FUCKING WORLD, LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PLACE[/QUOTE]

I'm a member of a Yahoo online community board for partners of Borderlines. One of the men recently posted his 101 Things I'm Tired Of list. I was so impressed with how clearly he expressed the pain, the sorrow, the anger, the sense of utter futility that he feels in his relationship with his wife. He generously agreed to allow me to share his pain with you.
1. I'm tired of being accused of being passive aggressive because I simply forgot to lower the toilet seat.
2. I'm tired of having things I say twisted around so that you perceive they hurt you more.
3. I'm tired of you always playing the victim and the one that was wronged.
4. I'm tired of the infrequent apologies from you.
5. I'm tired of the fighting.
6. I'm tired of the infrequent sex.
7. I'm tired of being criticized with "you never's" and "you don't do ____ anymore/enough."
8. I'm tired of the snide, confrontational attitude when we fight.
9. I'm tired of being interrupted when I'm trying to tell my side.
10. I'm tired of your ultra-sensitivity about everything.
11. I'm tired of being told I don't do enough around the house.
12. I'm tired of you being sick at least one week out of every month.
13. I'm tired of having a wife that I can't flirt with and make sexual innuendos with -- without her getting mad.
14. I'm tired of remembering all the fights and hurts and things that have been said.
15. I'm tired of always trying to be the peacemaker and the first to apologize.
16. I'm tired of feeling like a meal ticket.
17. I'm tired of being asked the same questions, over and over -- yet you flip out when I repeat myself.
18. I'm tired of the double standards.
19. I'm tired of the hypocrisy.
20. I'm tired of walking on eggshells, always trying not to irritate you.
21. I'm tired of the 50/50 chance that if we drink, we'll end up in a fight.
22. I'm tired of feeling like you're only attracted to me when you're drinking.
23. I'm tired of rubbing your back, feet or giving messages that aren't reciprocated.
24. I'm tired of giving oral sex that isn't reciprocated.
25. I'm tired of having a wife that won't participate in a fundamental part (sex) of a relationship.
26. I'm tired of how complicated sex has become.
27. I'm tired of hoping things will go back to what they were in the beginning.
28. I'm tired of thinking about all of it.
29. I'm tired of the empty promises of change.
30. I'm tired of the small changes that never last.
31. I'm tired of always being accused of things.
32. I'm tired of your irrational behavior.
33. I'm tired of your accusations.
34. I'm tired of your rage.
35. I'm tired of your drinking.
36. I'm tired of being treated like a child.
37. I'm tired of being bossed around.
38. I'm tired of being alone in a marriage.
39. I'm tired of not laughing.
40. I'm tired of the constant criticism.
41. I'm tired of being nagged about every little thing.
42. I'm tired of being bullied.
43. I'm tired of not being appreciated.
44. I'm tired of being sad.
45. I'm tired of the tension in our house.
46. I'm tired of fighting about sex.
47. I'm tired of the awkwardness.
48. I'm tired of not being desired.
49. I'm tired of not being listened to.
50. I'm tired of being accused of being a know-it-all.
51. I'm tired of you being more affectionate to the cat than to me.
52. I'm tired of never being given the benefit of the doubt.
53. I'm tired of being accused of saying things I didn't say.
54. I'm tired of doing things to be sweet that go unnoticed -- tacos, Gatorade, etc.
55. I'm tired of you being verbally abusive, then accusing me of abuse.
56. I'm tired of seeming to be the only one that notices or cares about the relationship.
57. I'm tired of being picked on over little things.
58. I'm tired of being belittled.
59. I'm tired of not feeling like a man.
60. I'm tired of being insulted.
61. I'm tired of being put down.
62. I'm tired of the instability in our relationship.
63. I'm tired of remembering who we used to be.
64. I'm tired of missing the romantic moments we used to share.
65. I'm tired of making an effort that gets criticized.
66. I'm tired of feeling like I got the bait and switch.
67. I'm tired of my ideas and wants being criticized while I support yours.
68. I'm tired of feeling like I have no say in things.
69. I'm tired of not being able to buy things I want, when I tell you all the time, "go ahead, if you want it."
70. I'm tired of waiting for things to change.
71. I'm tired of being bored.
72. I'm tired of the rut we're in.
73. I'm tired of being blamed for everything.
74. I'm tired of being in limbo about our future.
75. I'm tired of being indecisive.
76. I'm tired of the huge communication problems we have.
77. I'm tired of our conflicting personalities.
78. I'm tired of feeling like immature teenagers in this relationship.
79. I'm tired of your immaturity.
80. I'm tired of your inadequate conflict resolution skills.
81. I'm tired of your inability to be sympathetic to my views, feelings, etc.
82. I'm tired of your selfishness.
83. I'm tired of your negativity.
84. I'm tired of your unhappiness.
85. I'm tired of your insecurities.
86. I'm tired of you complaining every year about wanting a new job -- but never doing anything about it.
87. I'm tired of you not wanting to do anything together.
88. I'm tired of you getting to be the sensitive one -- I'm not supposed to have feelings.
89. I'm tired of you reading too much into things and coming to negative conclusions.
90. I'm tired of having a difficult relationship with you.
91. I'm tired of the distance.
92. I'm tired of not being in a loving relationship.
93. I'm tired of not being a team.
94. I'm tired of being questioned about every little thing.
95. I'm tired of being spineless.
96. I'm tired of not being respected.
97. I'm tired of being told how to do everything.
98. I'm tired of not having the spark we had in the beginning.
99. I'm tired of thinking of the loss of spark and how to get it back.
100. I'm tired of the fighting that has ruined every trip we've been on since Las Vegas.
101. I'm tired of remembering our disastrous wedding night and disastrous honeymoon.
I feel so sad when I read this list. It so adds it all up, doesn't it?
The list shows clearly how hard we try to make relationships with a wounded Borderline work; how we give ourselves away an inch at a time (ending up ashamed of ourselves); the unfairness of the Borderline's misperceptions and later criticisms, belittling statements and off-the-wall rages (for such seemingly small things).
It's interesting to me to see how the list progresses -- from the beginning statements of the Borderline's hurtful behavior; into an awareness of what's happening to the partner (the bullying, lack of intimacy, lack of sexual love, lack of respect); sliding into humiliation (not feeling like a man, feeling belittled, insulted and put down); finishing up with feelling downright tricked.
Since I coach partners of Borderlines now, I especially noted #'s 100 and 101. They show how soon the Borderline behaviors showed up in this man's relationship with his wife -- their honeymoon night.
This isn't unusual. Remember that Borderline hurtful behavior is triggered by intimacy -- our intimacy with them. It scares the heck out of them. They're afraid to let anyone too close (old fears from what happened to them in their past) and they're scared they'll be abandoned (again, old fears from what happened to them in their past).
One woman told me the Borderline behavior showed up the afternoon of her wedding reception -- her new husband was furiously jealous of her even laughing with one of the groomsmen. And it was downhill from there.
How do you feel when you read this list of behaviors? Have you experienced behavior like this from your partner? Click the Comments link below to share your story with us. Your story might help another man.

My advice: time to nut up or shut up.

 

[makare]

thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

I'm pretty sure that's not what's being said.

Circumstances can change. Culture can change. Women find themselves treated as equals to men, not subservient.

But equal does not mean the same. I sincerely believe that men on the whole will continue to make better soldiers, and that women will make better caregivers (just to give two examples). It's how our race has evolved, and that's why I believe that gender roles will persist. The gender roles didn't just happen spontaneously. But we have come too far as a race for gender roles to be concrete rules, hemming in the thousands upon thousands of outliers.

Women might be predisposed toward something. But when it comes down to a woman, generalizations are unfair.[/QUOTE]

Yes men and women are different, we learn that the first time we play doctor under the playground slide, my point is- so what? Once society gave the OK for men to stay home and be caregivers they do fine. If that role is specifically designated to women for whatever reason why can men do it? Why are women able to do male jobs? Maybe they don't do them the same way but the result is the same.

I think it is both nature and nurture that makes a person but mostly nurture.[/QUOTE]

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.[/QUOTE]

or maybe that thing they have been calling a chicken for so long was never a chicken in the first place.

 

[Hailey Knight]

How to avoid that list, Borderline or otherwise: Don't marry the wrong person.