This is Epic AWESOME since Ministry is playing on my MP3 player (on random) this very second.Off to listen to Ministry.
Damn cool.
Lady Gaga is amazing.
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
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Damn cool.
Well, it was Waiting, but that isn't as anti-bush as some of the other songs. And I'll have you know, that album is a return to the awesomeness that was Psalm 23. In the words of The Onion's AV club- Al Jorgenson creates his best stuff when a Republican is in the Oval Office.Well, that all depends. Which Ministry album. All are not created equal.
I bet you are listening to his lackluster anti-bush rant stuff huh?
I'd have been happy with just about anything though. Even back to Every Day is Halloween.
Well, it was Waiting, but that isn't as anti-bush as some of the other songs. And I'll have you know, that album is a return to the awesomeness that was Psalm 23. In the words of The Onion's AV club- Al Jorgenson creates his best stuff when a Republican is in the Oval Office.Well, that all depends. Which Ministry album. All are not created equal.
I bet you are listening to his lackluster anti-bush rant stuff huh?
I'd have been happy with just about anything though. Even back to Every Day is Halloween.[/QUOTE]
I definitely prefer earlier Ministry. Everything after Filth Pig just... kind of sounded like Filth Pig to me. And I LOVE Filth Pig, but I don't need 4 albums that sound just like it.
Oh, and not directed at anyone but listen up ya'all, when I or any of the mods use my internet tough guy voice to threaten you?
We can back it up.
Just in case anyone was unclear about that.
I like Lady Gaga and metal 
Apparently it's not your biggest fan.I like Lady Gaga and metal
At first I thought it weird you listenign to Lady Gaga and then some metal band, then i remembered I often hear Ministry and then Frank Sinatra.I like Lady Gaga and metal
Cary on.
D
Dusty668
Well I've listened to Manson some years ago, didn't like it. Usually I don't like Pop, but I do like this album by Lady Gaga, really good voice. Granted a couple of the songs she does I'm not thrilled with (paper gangsta frinstance) others I like a lot (Teeth). Definitely a keeper for me, but I will Youtube/sample before I buy others. Also I really loved the pre-Gaga clip, cute toes.
Also I am now listening to Sinatra, Nat King Cole, and Vixy & Tony.
Also I am now listening to Sinatra, Nat King Cole, and Vixy & Tony.
Doesn't Gurpel's hatred of Lady Gaga seem intensely personal? It's like he was her biggest fan, and stalked her at all of her shows, and she finally called security on him, and so now he hates her with a passion because she wouldn't recognize that he was her one true love?
Just sayin..
Just sayin..
C
Chazwozel
Yes.
Anyway, I was a forefront advocate to bitching about pop music... back when I was fucking 16. Really. It's just music. Who gives a shit. If you don't like Lady Gaga, no ones forcing you to listen.
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Laurelai
Damn you Charlie!
/shakes her fist
I keep looking at this thread, and then I watch the Bad Romance video again.... and again... and again.... and then I bought it on iTunes.
/shakes her fist
I keep looking at this thread, and then I watch the Bad Romance video again.... and again... and again.... and then I bought it on iTunes.
For me, the debate over whether it's an act or not is over, and the verdict is "Of course it's an act." Her stage name is Lady Gaga, taken from the Queen song Radio Gaga. Radio Gaga is about the degeneration of radio into a platform for mindless 'music.
That said, I'm not sure it's straight satire or whatever. And I don't particularly care. There is a local musician around here who I'm fairly certain is a satire of hip-hop culture. But he has a fan following that I don't trust to get the joke. Normally that makes me uncomfortable with the act, but Lady Gaga doesn't make me feel like that.
That said, I'm not sure it's straight satire or whatever. And I don't particularly care. There is a local musician around here who I'm fairly certain is a satire of hip-hop culture. But he has a fan following that I don't trust to get the joke. Normally that makes me uncomfortable with the act, but Lady Gaga doesn't make me feel like that.
I love Nirvana. I don't think it's completely the message that he was trying to convey. He got sick of the mainstream mindless drones, that's for sure. But not having people relate to his music, I don't think.
ElJuski
Staff member
Yeah, I read you too quickly and assumed that's what you meant. We're on the same page.
I mean, just look at the lyrics of "In Bloom". Those are the fuckers he hated. Well, that and those guys that came up to him and said that they loved "Polly" like it was an anthem or something.
I mean, just look at the lyrics of "In Bloom". Those are the fuckers he hated. Well, that and those guys that came up to him and said that they loved "Polly" like it was an anthem or something.
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Dusty668
The whole grunge thing really got on my nerves for some reason. So I went country back then.
Couldn't find any so I settled for what Nashville was putting out.
Couldn't find any so I settled for what Nashville was putting out.
Cajungal
Staff member
Ok I've only heard about 2 songs from this woman, and also 2 interviews, so I can't really weigh in on her right now (I heard the songs about half a year ago now and can't remember them), but WOW, that "vintage" video is neat. Nice voice. Friend of mine posted a vid of her on Ellen, and she made a funny comment like.... "Oh everyone's surprised that I sing for real live... but that's kinda what we're supposed to do.... surpriiise!" It was cute and funny, and if it's true that she doesn't just let a recording take over live, that's kind of awesome. I hate that people do that today.
If I actually listen to more stuff I'll be back. I hadn't visited this thread at all.. just caught up. Very entertaining.
Friend of mine posted a vid of her on Ellen, and she made a funny comment like.... "Oh everyone's surprised that I sing for real live... but that's kinda what we're supposed to do.... surpriiise!" It was cute and funny, and if it's true that she doesn't just let a recording take over live, that's kind of awesome. I hate that people do that today. If I actually listen to more stuff I'll be back. I hadn't visited this thread at all.. just caught up. Very entertaining.
Well, though Gurpel's not here, I thought i'd take a moment to address his arguments in a debate-wise fashion. He seems really bent out of shape about Lady Gaga, and the main point of his argumentation is that her music lacks any substance, and Lady Gaga herself lacks talent.
Take for instance, this post:
But that's a weak, throwaway argument. I can probably take any band you name, and find some snippet of lyrics where they go "la la la" or make some other nonsensical sound in order to make music. Let's try, shall we?
Beatles, Ask Me Why: That I, I, I, I should never, never, never be blue.
Or how 'bout the Beatles, She Loves You:
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
The Doors, perhaps? (Break on Through)
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
So, the argument is weak. Even bands that are well known for their deep or insightful songs have that kind of stuff in them. The argument holds no water on the basis of those lyrics. If we examine the song as a whole, the argument that her music is shallow holds no water either. I'm sure Gurpel doesn't even know what the song is actually about, because he's just dismissed it out of hand. But the song isn't meaningless. It was written to talk about the fact that when she was sleeping with her boyfriend, she was having bisexual fantasies, but that she couldn't share those with him. "he can't read my poker face". There's a lot of emotional depth there, when you realize that most of the lyrics are about how she's going to turn her man on, when the gist of the song is that she wants to be with a woman. It touches on the problems with being in the closet, and having to act a certain way in order for people to accept you, and how you're living behind a mask. Deep stuff, I think. In addition to her fashion sense, I imagine this is one of the reasons why she has such a large following in the gay community.
Gurpel's second argument is that Gaga is talentless, and only gets attention for showing tits and ass.
The 'autotuning her voice' bit implies that she can't sing. I think the link I posted earlier definitively proves otherwise. She has an excellent singing voice, and has been playing the piano since she was four. You can search youtube for "lady gaga acoustic" and hear acoustic versions of most of her songs. Most of them are solo pieces of her playing the piano while singing, and they sound a lot like the 'vintage' footage I posted earlier. She can carry a tune. I've listened to three or four of these recently, and I haven't heard any pitch problems with her voice. And that's talent. I've heard plenty of professional performers sing flat when they're singing live withtout autotune or a backing track. So the lady has talent.
Not to mention that her songs are catchy, have a good beat, and as musically interesting as anything on the radio these days. Sure, it's a bit formulaic. A lot of music is. Hell, I play irish traditional music. There are thousands of tunes hundreds of years old..but you know what? You can sum up half of it as "16 bars, AABB 4/4 time" and the other half as "16 bars, AABB 3/6 time". And that's not much of an exaggeration. There aren't a lot of bands out there like Jethro Tull. Bands that push the musical envelope and don't package their music into easily digested pieces. Rock bands, pop bands, rap bands. They all follow their own formulas.
So, basically, it comes down to the fact that Gurpel hates her music because it's 'stupid mainstream music' and because the 'unwashed masses' like it. That's just pretentious elitism. It's simple snobbery. It's an argument more devoid of actual substance than any pop song on the market. If Lady Gaga were unpopular, the pretentious elite would be the first people who would stand behind her and claim that she is brilliant and decry the stupidity of the 'unwashed masses' for not understanding her art. In short, it's an argument based on populism, rather than on any rational examination of the subject matter at hand. This makes it even more laughable when one of the pretentious elite rails about how the 'unwashed masses' blindly follow anything popular, because they're doing the exact same thing. But rather than loving something because it's popular, they hate it because it's popular. And then they sit back, smugly, feeling superior.
I refer you to tvtropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle6cd1cskka05i?from=Main.ItsPopularNowItSucks
I imagine that's the real reason why Gurpel came in so inflammatory and with such vitriol. He knew that he was really no different than the 'unwashed masses' that he was lambasting. And that realization gnaws deeply at his soul, causing him to lash out at those around him.
Take for instance, this post:
First of all, a correction. The lyrics are "I'll get him hot, show him what I've got". But even so, I'd say that just looking at that short snippet of lyrics, the music does look shallow and lacking substance.
But that's a weak, throwaway argument. I can probably take any band you name, and find some snippet of lyrics where they go "la la la" or make some other nonsensical sound in order to make music. Let's try, shall we?
Beatles, Ask Me Why: That I, I, I, I should never, never, never be blue.
Or how 'bout the Beatles, She Loves You:
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
The Doors, perhaps? (Break on Through)
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Break on through
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
So, the argument is weak. Even bands that are well known for their deep or insightful songs have that kind of stuff in them. The argument holds no water on the basis of those lyrics. If we examine the song as a whole, the argument that her music is shallow holds no water either. I'm sure Gurpel doesn't even know what the song is actually about, because he's just dismissed it out of hand. But the song isn't meaningless. It was written to talk about the fact that when she was sleeping with her boyfriend, she was having bisexual fantasies, but that she couldn't share those with him. "he can't read my poker face". There's a lot of emotional depth there, when you realize that most of the lyrics are about how she's going to turn her man on, when the gist of the song is that she wants to be with a woman. It touches on the problems with being in the closet, and having to act a certain way in order for people to accept you, and how you're living behind a mask. Deep stuff, I think. In addition to her fashion sense, I imagine this is one of the reasons why she has such a large following in the gay community.
Gurpel's second argument is that Gaga is talentless, and only gets attention for showing tits and ass.
Of course, I can make the equally empty argument that "I'd like to see Gurpel do better", which naturally, he can't. But I'd like to adress the substance of his argument.
The 'autotuning her voice' bit implies that she can't sing. I think the link I posted earlier definitively proves otherwise. She has an excellent singing voice, and has been playing the piano since she was four. You can search youtube for "lady gaga acoustic" and hear acoustic versions of most of her songs. Most of them are solo pieces of her playing the piano while singing, and they sound a lot like the 'vintage' footage I posted earlier. She can carry a tune. I've listened to three or four of these recently, and I haven't heard any pitch problems with her voice. And that's talent. I've heard plenty of professional performers sing flat when they're singing live withtout autotune or a backing track. So the lady has talent.
Not to mention that her songs are catchy, have a good beat, and as musically interesting as anything on the radio these days. Sure, it's a bit formulaic. A lot of music is. Hell, I play irish traditional music. There are thousands of tunes hundreds of years old..but you know what? You can sum up half of it as "16 bars, AABB 4/4 time" and the other half as "16 bars, AABB 3/6 time". And that's not much of an exaggeration. There aren't a lot of bands out there like Jethro Tull. Bands that push the musical envelope and don't package their music into easily digested pieces. Rock bands, pop bands, rap bands. They all follow their own formulas.
So, basically, it comes down to the fact that Gurpel hates her music because it's 'stupid mainstream music' and because the 'unwashed masses' like it. That's just pretentious elitism. It's simple snobbery. It's an argument more devoid of actual substance than any pop song on the market. If Lady Gaga were unpopular, the pretentious elite would be the first people who would stand behind her and claim that she is brilliant and decry the stupidity of the 'unwashed masses' for not understanding her art. In short, it's an argument based on populism, rather than on any rational examination of the subject matter at hand. This makes it even more laughable when one of the pretentious elite rails about how the 'unwashed masses' blindly follow anything popular, because they're doing the exact same thing. But rather than loving something because it's popular, they hate it because it's popular. And then they sit back, smugly, feeling superior.
I refer you to tvtropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitle6cd1cskka05i?from=Main.ItsPopularNowItSucks
I imagine that's the real reason why Gurpel came in so inflammatory and with such vitriol. He knew that he was really no different than the 'unwashed masses' that he was lambasting. And that realization gnaws deeply at his soul, causing him to lash out at those around him.
can I just take a minute and laugh my cock off at a death metal fan coming in and tackling lyrical depth in a recording artist
C
Chazwozel
Ouch Tin, even my ass feels sore after witnessing that whooping.
Oh and for those who wonder how difficult death metal is to play... it's not. It's pretty much drop-D single finger barr chords the entire time. Throw in a nice short 12-16 fret solo and you have yourself some 'deep' industrial metal. The only thing you need for good metal is a nice pre-amp.
Oh and for those who wonder how difficult death metal is to play... it's not. It's pretty much drop-D single finger barr chords the entire time. Throw in a nice short 12-16 fret solo and you have yourself some 'deep' industrial metal. The only thing you need for good metal is a nice pre-amp.
Lady Gaga has talent. She can sing. My fiancee went to her concert on Friday and she came back surprised that she literally SANG every song, not lip-singed and spent a lot of time on the piano entertaining the crowd.
And most artists tend to use their more "radio-friendly" songs as they can get air-time. A lot has to do with the music industry turning down non-legendary artists who try to do much with their songs and not get any air-time.
And most artists tend to use their more "radio-friendly" songs as they can get air-time. A lot has to do with the music industry turning down non-legendary artists who try to do much with their songs and not get any air-time.
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LordRavage
Bravo Tin!
On a more personal note...
I still dont undertand the hate on when it comes to any artist who hits big. I mean, who cares if it becomes mainstream or not. I always admire when someone creates their works of art in any field. There is nothing wrong with creating anything from simple tunes to grand musicals. I believe most artist types just have a need to create, no matter what it is.
The energy people use to hate something should be put to better use. I mean..hating something is so main stream anyway.
On a more personal note...
I still dont undertand the hate on when it comes to any artist who hits big. I mean, who cares if it becomes mainstream or not. I always admire when someone creates their works of art in any field. There is nothing wrong with creating anything from simple tunes to grand musicals. I believe most artist types just have a need to create, no matter what it is.
The energy people use to hate something should be put to better use. I mean..hating something is so main stream anyway.
ElJuski
Staff member
BOOSH!
I understand it to an extent, it stops being "special" or "your" band. I don't think that justifies the general hate but I get that feeling.
agreed with Espy +
bands who score really big with an album an then become "mainstream" will often dumb down or substract from their music to cater to a broader audience and thus are selling out and start to SUCK.
example: Metallica, Korn, U2, Marilyn Manson ( best example ever), etc etc
I have a problem with those bands and will usually be snarky when i talk about them. Yeah, i get it, money's good but fuck you it used to be about music.
I don't really have a problem with artists made for MTV from the start (gaga for example). Most of the time, i don't like em at all, i find it crappy but i understand their purpose and i just don't listen to it except in bars etc.
bands who score really big with an album an then become "mainstream" will often dumb down or substract from their music to cater to a broader audience and thus are selling out and start to SUCK.
example: Metallica, Korn, U2, Marilyn Manson ( best example ever), etc etc
I have a problem with those bands and will usually be snarky when i talk about them. Yeah, i get it, money's good but fuck you it used to be about music.
I don't really have a problem with artists made for MTV from the start (gaga for example). Most of the time, i don't like em at all, i find it crappy but i understand their purpose and i just don't listen to it except in bars etc.
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LordRavage
I understand it to an extent, it stops being "special" or "your" band. I don't think that justifies the general hate but I get that feeling.[/QUOTE]
Good point. I do have to admit, there is something special about being there before people hit big. If feels good having that knowledge and experience.
I guess my thinking is more toward people taking a step back and looking at a larger picture. Really, hating something is simply spinning your wheels to nowhere. I have actually have friends get annoyed with me because I will question their hate for something popular. Misery loves company.
But I wont lie....sometimes its just plain fun to hate something..even just for a bit.
(I hope the above makes sense. Mind is a little fractured from too much Starbucks coffee.)
That said (devil's advocate here) where do you draw the line between deciding to make more music like what fans have really responded to and "selling out"?
If you make ten songs, and the ones that really got people behind your band was the 9th and the 10th, you make more songs like the 9th and the 10th. Then if/when more fans start following because you've made more music like that, it's only natural that you're going to keep doing it because you've found a place where you can express yourself musically and share that emotion with many more people.
Even if some corporate marketer or whatever points out that you should make more songs like 9 and 10 because you can make more money from more people, they were your songs in the first place. If being able to share that expression with as many people as possible is an artistic goal of yours (I'm sure that some artists exist for whom its not) and it dovetails with your own need for artistic expression, how is that "selling out"?
It seems like it's an easy line to see when you've already passed it, but is probably much harder to see when you haven't.
Maybe the strength of Lady Gaga is that she (apparently) knowingly, consciously, crossed right over it to give people what they think they want, and is still able to shock and inspire.
Or she has no idea and is only a shallow marketing product. It's probably a bit early to tell.
Metallica - I don't think they changed for anyone but themselves. I don't care for anything post-black album but I get that they wanted to move forward.
U2- They, in my opinion didn't start sucking till post-POP, which was an amazing and innovative album. However it didn't make them a ton of money so they went towards the uber-boring adult contemporary market and have stayed there, sucking it up every album.
Manson - YES. UGH. WHY??? Seriously, I love his stuff but after HolyWood... it's like he just let it all go. No inspiration, no real oomph. Nothing.
C
Chazwozel
Metallica - I don't think they changed for anyone but themselves. I don't care for anything post-black album but I get that they wanted to move forward.
U2- They, in my opinion didn't start sucking till post-POP, which was an amazing and innovative album. However it didn't make them a ton of money so they went towards the uber-boring adult contemporary market and have stayed there, sucking it up every album.
Manson - YES. UGH. WHY??? Seriously, I love his stuff but after HolyWood... it's like he just let it all go. No inspiration, no real oomph. Nothing.[/QUOTE]
My big beef with Metallica is they used to outright support pirating music and bootlegging their shit. Before Lars became the spokesperson for anti-Napster. Once they got that broad audience from bootlegging, they turned around and try to deny other artists from doing to same thing.
For me, 99% of the time with artists, I just judge them on their music. Period. Nothing else. I could give two fucks if the Foo Fighters are holocaust-deniers or if Metallica is made up of Scientologists! So I like all of Metallica's music (save St Anger) pretty well enough! There are definitely albums that are better than others, but it's all good (again, save St Anger).
Lady GaGa is in that 1% because she's fucking hilarious.
Lady GaGa is in that 1% because she's fucking hilarious.
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