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Ender's Game (movie)

#1

strawman

strawman

First trailer came out today. I'm pretty stoked to see this, hopefully they don't screw it up...




#2

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Looks cool and has a great cast.

I won't see it.


#3

Hylian

Hylian

I am super stoked for the movie to come out but I have a really bad feeling that the movie will end up really sucking,


#4

blotsfan

blotsfan

Man, I got the opposite impression from that trailer. That made me really excited


#5

Frank

Frank

I've never read the book so I have no expectations!

The trailer looks neat.


#6

Jay

Jay

Sick of ben kingsley


#7

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Jay said:
Sick of ben kingsley
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Thank Christ, I thought I was the only one.


#8

Frank

Frank

He's been in like 4 or 5 wide release movies in the last 5 years.


#9

GasBandit

GasBandit

As I said over in the trailers thread, I'm betting the B-plot (Locke and Demosthenes) is totally written out of the movie for time sake, otherwise the thing would easily be 4 hours long.


#10

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
Looks cool and has a great cast.

I won't see it.
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I'll theater hop to see it.


#11

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I have a bad feeling they're going to shoehorn in a kid romance.


#12

General Specific

General Specific

Love the look of the trailer. I was worried about this, but it is looking good so far.


#13

Far

Far

Quotemander Prime said:
I have a bad feeling they're going to shoehorn in a kid romance.
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I've heard that OSC shopped this around until he found a studio that wouldn't do that. I believe the compromise was to get more of Bean's and the Ender's Shadow story in.
GasBandit said:
As I said over in the trailers thread, I'm betting the B-plot (Locke and Demosthenes) is totally written out of the movie for time sake, otherwise the thing would easily be 4 hours long.
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I believe it was, again, in favor of getting more Bean centric content in. Unfortunate as I find Peter's story just as compelling.


#14

Hylian

Hylian

I still can't believe they have such a huge spoiler in the trailer. I know that most people have read the book and even than only people who know the spoiler will most likely notice it but still.


#15

strawman

strawman

Hylian said:
I still can't believe they have such a huge spoiler in the trailer. I know that most people have read the book and even than only people who know the spoiler will most likely notice it but still.
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Spoilers are in the eye of the beholder. In order to shorten movies, a number of things that are spoilers for the book are made obvious in the movie. You can only keep a few secrets until the end, otherwise it becomes too complicated.


#16

Dave

Dave

In an ironic twist, Orson Scott Card wants people to not boycott his movie over his extremist anti-gay rants and activism. Why? Because they are not being tolerant.

You can't make this stuff up, folks!

(I'll still see the movie, though, as long as the geeks think it sticks fairly close to the books.)


#17

GasBandit

GasBandit

There's only so much they can do. If they don't cut the Locke and Demosthenes subplots, it'll be 4 hours, half of which is children typing.


#18

Hylian

Hylian

I will go and watch the movie but I don't have very high hopes for the movie. I just am having a hard time imagining how they are going to capture the spirit of the book. Although I must admit I get really pissed off over Orson Scott Card's anti-gay stances. In my mind just because I like someones books does not mean I have to like the author.


#19

strawman

strawman

GasBandit said:
There's only so much they can do. If they don't cut the Locke and Demosthenes subplots, it'll be 4 hours, half of which is children typing.
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If Card follows some of the thoughts he had for his first script, we aren't going to see much, if anything, from Peter and Valentine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game_(film)#Development

It sounds like the main focus points will be:
- Ender doesn't know, but the audience and all the adults do know what's really going on from the beginning of the movie
- The adults will be fighting over control of Ender
- The major interpersonal elements of the main characters across ender's game and ender's shadow
- The battles and battle tactics (primarily to showcase ender's out of the box thinking)

But we'll see how it actually was laid out. Card held this series so close to his chest for such a long time that even if it doesn't match the books, it will probably match his vision for what an ender film should be right now.


#20

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I think letting the audience in on things too early would be a major misstep.


#21

Necronic

Necronic

They really had to show the Dr Device scene in the trailer?


#22

Dei

Dei

Necronic said:
They really had to show the Dr Device scene in the trailer?
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I commented on that to my husband when we were seeing Despicable Me.

"Oh hey we've seen the ending, no need to watch the movie now!"


#23

Far

Far

But you know it's the ending because you've read the books. For someone not familliar with the books, thats just a big marketable explosion and holds no context.

I'd also argue that that really isn't the end in the book. Very final yes, but not the end of them.


#24

strawman

strawman

If you're watching Enders game to find out if the humans win, then yes, the trailer is all you need to see.


#25

tegid

tegid

That's trailers for you these days...


#26

Zappit

Zappit

This thread needs an update - how about Orson Scott Card's latest batshit crazy political musings?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2...ma_turning_urban_gangs_into_his_personal.html

I got to give him credit. The man can sure write fiction.


#27

Tress

Tress

That's industrial-grade crazy.


#28

strawman

strawman

There's a whole politics subforum for this sort of thing.


#29

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

stienman said:
There's a whole politics subforum for this sort of thing.
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Some people don't like giving money to horrible people. I hope anyone with a conscience sneaks into this movie if they have to see it.


#30

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Some people don't like giving money to horrible people. I hope anyone with a conscience sneaks into this movie if they have to see it.
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Or you know, has the strength of conviction to not watch it as long as Card get residuals from it.


#31

Covar

Covar

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Some people don't like giving money to horrible people. I hope anyone with a conscience sneaks into this movie if they have to see it.
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If you had a conscience you would just not see it. Sneaking in just means you're acting like a child.


#32

Espy

Espy

I watch Roman Polanski films. So I'll probably see this. I have no issue separating the art from the artist.


#33

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Espy said:
I watch Roman Polanski films. So I'll probably see this. I have no issue separating the art from the artist.
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I mostly agree with this, except when my viewing of the art, funds the artist and allows him to continue being the person that I object with.

IE: I no longer eat at Chikfila, even though I can seperate the food from the CEO.


#34

Dave

Dave

I don't eat at Chick-fil-a mainly because it's expensive and you don't get anything special for the extra cost. I'm not a crusader, I'm just cheap.


#35

Bubble181

Bubble181

I don't go out of my way to avoid this sort of thing - either Polanski or OSC. However, if you want to boycott this, the only right way is to not go and see it. Sneaking in is essentially stealing (you wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a movie. Dammit, I've been indoctrinated!); you're not just withholding money from OSC, but also from the people running the cinema etc etc.


#36

GasBandit

GasBandit

Yeah, just wait for it to hit the torrents like a normal person.


#37

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Bubble181 said:
I don't go out of my way to avoid this sort of thing - either Polanski or OSC. However, if you want to boycott this, the only right way is to not go and see it. Sneaking in is essentially stealing (you wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a movie. Dammit, I've been indoctrinated!); you're not just withholding money from OSC, but also from the people running the cinema etc etc.
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It's Charlie though, he's two faced about everything when it's convenient. Much how my sister pointed out before he left the forums for that long period of time.


#38

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Gilgamesh said:
I mostly agree with this, except when my viewing of the art, funds the artist and allows him to continue being the person that I object with.
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Yeah, this is why I care more about Card than Polanski. He's out there actively promoting his views, and I think they're fucking crazy.


#39

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Covar said:
If you had a conscience you would just not see it. Sneaking in just means your acting like a child.
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*you're

DID CM PUNK TEACH YOU ANYTHING?! :p


#40

Bubble181

Bubble181

ThatNickGuy said:
*you're

DID CM PUNK TEACH YOU ANYTHING?! :p
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Shouldn't that be "Didn't CM Punk teach you anything?"?


#41

GasBandit

GasBandit

Or "Did CM Punk teach you nothing?"


#42

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Shit, I originally typed "nothing" and then changed it. Blame it on me just waking up.


#43

Espy

Espy

Gilgamesh said:
I mostly agree with this, except when my viewing of the art, funds the artist and allows him to continue being the person that I object with.

IE: I no longer eat at Chikfila, even though I can seperate the food from the CEO.
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Oh, I respect that and I'm sure if I thought hard enough I could come up with some artist I find reprehensible enough to say I wouldn't view their art, etc. I guess I just can't think of one right now.

I suppose I do view a business like Chik-fil-A or Starbucks or whatever as different from art like books or movies or music though. I suppose because theres a million different options for what are basic commodities while art *tends* to be unique. So sure, theres other sci-fi, but Enders Game is it's own unique thing that I can't go get a comparable replacement for.


#44

GasBandit

GasBandit

I don't eat at chik-fil-a because their food costs too much.

Well that, and for some reason whenever I drive past their drive-thru is JAM PACKED. So I guess they don't care that I don't eat there.


#45

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

GasBandit said:
I don't eat at chik-fil-a because their food costs too much.

Well that, and for some reason whenever I drive past their drive-thru is JAM PACKED. So I guess they don't care that I don't eat there.
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They've been relative ghost towns since the boycotts in Austin. Whereas before you'd see them packed to the brim at all hours. Now they barely get a lunch rush.


#46

Fun Size

Fun Size

Question: There has been, historically, a link between those individuals who are creators who can produce things that no one else has ever conceived of, whether technological or artistic, and decided antisocial tendencies. Should leeway be given when the very fact that these people think differently is what enables them to be creators in the first place? (Important note: When I say "leeway", do not confuse it with forgiveness or acceptance of this behavior. Rather, do we accept that these works can be appreciated, but come with a certain amount of unwanted byproducts. Also, these byproducts are limited in scope to opinion. The actual victimization of others is an obvious line not to be crossed.)

I guess the example that comes to mind is that Thomas Edison was a notorious douchebag, but I don't see anyone suggesting that we turn in all of our light bulbs.


#47

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Fun Size said:
I guess the example that comes to mind is that Thomas Edison was a notorious douchebag, but I don't see anyone suggesting that we turn in all of our light bulbs.
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It's simple, if someone does something I find morally reprehensible and I have the opportunity to not give them any direct kind of financial gain, then I will.

To use your example: If there were an Edison Brand light bulb, I'd buy the competitor instead.
My example: I do not eat at Chik-Fil-A anymore, despite visiting twice a months prior. I instead eat elsewhere.

An example of separating art from artist: I will watch a Tom Cruise movie, because he's already gotten paid for the acting and will not further benefit from my attending his film. Knowing he's a complete nutcase IRL does not keep me from believing his characters on screen either.


#48

Tress

Tress

Gilgamesh said:
I mostly agree with this, except when my viewing of the art, funds the artist and allows him to continue being the person that I object with.
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I disagree, because I believe these people will continue to be whomever they are regardless of how much money they make. OSC will continue to be a crazy bigot whether this movie tanks or becomes the highest grossing film of all time. Polanski will still be a rapist piece of shit. So in my opinion people might as well enjoy the art they create, if they are going to enjoy it at all. That's how I separate the art from the artist.


#49

Bubble181

Bubble181

Fun Size said:
turn in all of our light bulbs.
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It's illegal to seel light bulbs in Belgium, except under very limiting conditions. LEDs and CFLs are the norm, with halogens when you need dimming.

Yes, that's ridiculous, but it's also true.

That said - the House/Sherlock/etc stereotype of the antisocial genius is based in reality, yes. As long as it's just opinions, meh. The line between genius and crazy is thin, and all that, and we ned those creative types - be it Edison, Einstein, or Pollock.


#50

Tress

Tress

Gilgamesh said:
An example of separating art from artist: I will watch a Tom Cruise movie, because he's already gotten paid for the acting and will not further benefit from my attending his film. Knowing he's a complete nutcase IRL does not keep me from believing his characters on screen either.
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This violates your own logic. If you buy a ticket to a Tom Cruise movie, his sales go up. The higher his sales go, the more appealing he is to studios. The more appealing he is, the more work he gets and the more money he gets. Therefore you are supporting him, and allowing him to keep being a crazy asshole.


#51

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

Tress said:
This violates your own logic. If you buy a ticket to a Tom Cruise movie, his sales go up. The higher his sales go, the more appealing he is to studios. The more appealing he is, the more work he gets and the more money he gets. Therefore you are supporting him, and allowing him to keep being a crazy asshole.
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That's indirect gain, not quite the same. I'm not directly putting money in his pockets, but yes, he stays appealing to movie studios so it's indirect. I understand and that's just the way I do it.


#52

Dave

Dave

Most big named actors have a stake in the film. If you see it, he will directly make more money.


#53

Gusto

Gusto

Tress said:
I disagree, because I believe these people will continue to be whomever they are regardless of how much money they make. OSC will continue to be a crazy bigot whether this movie tanks or becomes the highest grossing film of all time. Polanski will still be a rapist piece of shit. So in my opinion people might as well enjoy the art they create, if they are going to enjoy it at all. That's how I separate the art from the artist.
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The problem with this logic is that OSC has donated decent sums of money to supporting anti-gay movements and propositions, and stemming his income would effectively stem his ability to do that sort of thing.

I won't be seeing Ender's Game in theatres mostly because I didn't much care for the book.


#54

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I won't be seeing it in theaters because it's probably going to suck, even though I adore the book. As Nostalgia Chick pointed out in her Ender's Game video, the book feels like it was written by someone less bigoted and hateful than OSC.

I wish I could claim some moral high ground on other names here, but Polanski's movies are so fucking good.

But if you need an artist to abstain from, there's Victor Salva, director of the Jeepers Creepers films, who molested a six-year-old.


#55

strawman

strawman

Comes out Halloween evening. I'll probably not be able to see it on Halloween, but maybe I can check it out Friday.

I hope they did a good job...


#56

Hylian

Hylian

Even though I have a feeling it will suck I still plan on watching it this Friday/weekend


#57

Dei

Dei

I'll probably see it once my husband can take a day to see it with me. My hopes are not high.


#58

Necronic

Necronic

I have high hopes. I liked both of Hood's other movies that I've seen (Rendition and Wolverine.)


#59

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I still don't want to see this, but my 11-year-old cousin really wants to go. I told him that if he finishes the book by opening weekend, I'll take him. His moms bought it for him back in August, so there was plenty of time.

He hasn't started it yet. I think I'm in the clear.


#60

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Still a great big...



...from me.


#61

Dave

Dave

Necronic said:
I have high hopes. I liked both of Hood's other movies that I've seen (Rendition and Wolverine.)
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I watched Wolverine last night. Terrible movie. Absolutely crap. Predictable and stupid. If that's the bar you're measuring it by I'm not convinced.


#62

GasBandit

GasBandit

Dave said:
I watched Wolverine last night. Terrible movie. Absolutely crap. Predictable and stupid. If that's the bar you're measuring it by I'm not convinced.
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Are you guys talking about the same movie? Hood directed X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009), not The Wolverine (2013). I didn't think the 2009 one was absolutely horrible, and I haven't seen the 2013 one.


#63

Dave

Dave

GasBandit said:
Are you guys talking about the same movie? Hood directed X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009), not The Wolverine (2013). I didn't think the 2009 one was absolutely horrible, and I haven't seen the 2013 one.
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Probably different movies, then I don't know who directs what, usually. I retract my derision.


#64

GasBandit

GasBandit

Dave said:
Probably different movies, then I don't know who directs what, usually. I retract my derision.
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Did he go to Japan in yours, or did he tussle with Sabertooth for his whole life?

The former is 2013, the latter is 2009.


#65

Dave

Dave

Oh I know the one I watched was the 2013 one. We got it on pay-per-view.


#66

Tress

Tress

Why don't we all just wait for Friday, read a few reviews, and decide then? Or is that too sensible?


#67

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Tress said:
Why don't we all just wait for Friday, read a few reviews, and decide then? Or is that too sensible?
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What are we deciding?


#68

strawman

strawman

I think I'm just cautious because I don't want to go in knowing that I love the book and be disappointed. If I go in, loving the book, but expecting a mediocre rendition of it, I am less likely to be disappointed.

But, you know, I enjoyed transformers despite its flaws, so I'm sure I'll enjoy it from an entertainment standpoint. My worry is mainly what is the major theme?
The "twist" at the end was never meant to be important, it was the using children as instruments of war and genocide, and the ethical questions surrounding that. Secondarily it approached the odd mixture of genius and psychopathy, and the underlying social structures formed by very intelligent people of widely varying personalities.

Will the movie, like the book, show ender as a flawed human being prior to the events that turn him into a hero? Are we going to hear anything about how children are selected? How much of Ender's Shadow is used - does Bean shine as brightly as Ender?

So on and so forth. They might have just plucked the neat ideas out of the book and turned it into a popcorn flick, which would probably still be enjoyable, but annoying.


#69

Dave

Dave

Card makes a lot out of the humiliation of the kids by stripping them naked. Like, a lot. I doubt we'll see anything like that (thank Darwin!), but I wonder how they'll handle that.


#70

Gilgamesh

Gilgamesh

stienman said:
But, you know, I enjoyed transformers despite its flaws, so I'm sure I'll enjoy it from an entertainment standpoint. My worry is mainly what is the major theme?
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See I get what you're trying to say but Transformers wasn't -just- bad from a source material perspective, it was also a bad movie on the counts of what makes a film good. I'm very sure Ender's Game won't follow in that sort of direction. It'll be a well done film I'm sure.


#71

Dei

Dei

stienman said:
I think I'm just cautious because I don't want to go in knowing that I love the book and be disappointed. If I go in, loving the book, but expecting a mediocre rendition of it, I am less likely to be disappointed. But, you know, I enjoyed transformers despite its flaws, so I'm sure I'll enjoy it from an entertainment standpoint. My worry is mainly what is the major theme? * SPOILER * So on and so forth. They might have just plucked the neat ideas out of the book and turned it into a popcorn flick, which would probably still be enjoyable, but annoying.
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I will say that they are selling Ender's Game/Ender's Shadow as a book bundle in book stores right now. I'm hoping that's a good sign.


#72

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I love the book too much to go in unbiased. Better for me to own that than go in expecting it to suit my whims, then saying it sucks when it doesn't do what I want.


#73

GasBandit

GasBandit

I'll be going in with low expectations, that way I can only be pleasantly surprised. I'm expecting them to try to force it into a Harry Potter mold, glossing over most of the underlying story in favor of a "this is how a little boy came to kick some splodey alien ass" popcorn flick.


#74

Tress

Tress

Zero Esc said:
What are we deciding?
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Whether the movie is good or bad, whether the director did a good job or not, etc. Instead of speculating based on this or that, we should just wait for a few reviews and decide then.


#75

strawman

strawman

Tress said:
Instead of speculating
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Choose one:

1. We're human. By nature we attempt to evaluate the outcome of actions prior to taking them. It's one of the things that allows us to progress as intelligent (haha!) creatures.

2. You do know you're posting this in a forum, right?

3. :Leyla:


#76

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Tress said:
Whether the movie is good or bad, whether the director did a good job or not, etc. Instead of speculating based on this or that, we should just wait for a few reviews and decide then.
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The reviews still wouldn't tell you whether the movie is good or bad.

And people were more speculating on how they should approach the movie in order to have the most chance of enjoying it.


#77

Far

Far

Will see it Thursday night and report back.


#78

PatrThom

PatrThom

Haven't read the book yet.
I suppose this means that I won't be all high-n-mighty about seeing the movie.

--Patrick


#79

GasBandit

GasBandit

At this point, I'd recommend seeing the movie before the book. It's just common movie sense. But it'd be worth it to read the book, afterwards.


#80

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

PatrThom said:
Haven't read the book yet.
I suppose this means that I won't be all high-n-mighty about seeing the movie.

--Patrick
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I don't think anyone in this thread claimed to be better than anyone else for not having read the book.


#81

PatrThom

PatrThom

Zero Esc said:
I don't think anyone in this thread claimed to be better than anyone else for not having read the book.
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No, you know how it is.
Now I don't get to be one of those people who says, "Oh, the book was soo much better."

--Patrick


#82

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

PatrThom said:
No, you know how it is.
Now I don't get to be one of those people who says, "Oh, the book was soo much better."

--Patrick
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It did have a better soundtrack.


#83

Bubble181

Bubble181

stienman said:
They might have just plucked the neat ideas out of the book and turned it into a popcorn flick, which would probably still be enjoyable, but annoying.
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They would never treat a beloved franchise like that! Haha!


#84

drawn_inward

drawn_inward

PatrThom said:
Haven't read the book yet.
I suppose this means that I won't be all high-n-mighty about seeing the movie.

--Patrick
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I just finished the book last night, and I don't really want to see the movie now. I really don't get the hype AT ALL. Why do you all love this book so much? There was some creepy stuff in it. Why are the boys naked in their beds? Ugh. A naked fight? I just found that stuff to be a bit pedobear worthy and unrealistic. Also, the book would have been a bit more believable (plot and dialogue) if you shifted the kids' ages by +5.

Don't read the spoilers if you haven't read the book!

The pre-internet and laptop predictions. That was cool.
The twist didn't throw me b/c the book was nearly over and they hadn't fought anyone yet. If they had been fighting for real for nearly the whole book then it would have had more of an impact.
Also, I found the whole epilogue sort of unnecessary and boring.
The plot on Earth had me eye-rolling quite a bit.

This book is supposed to be one of the best sci-fi books, but it really fell flat for me. I guess it's an okay "kids" book despite the somewhat creep factor.

So, I might watch it on DVD, but won't go see it. Feel free to hammer me with the Disagree button.


#85

Dei

Dei

Part of the issue with the plot on Earth is that it is very out of date now. When this book was written, the Internet wasn't the giant hub of social media that it is now.


#86

drawn_inward

drawn_inward

Dei said:
Part of the issue with the plot on Earth is that it is very out of date now. When this book was written, the Internet wasn't the giant hub of social media that it is now.
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You're right. I guess that's probably what hurt that for me.
It's like Dave taking over the world b/c of Halforums™.


#87

GasBandit

GasBandit

drawn_inward said:
You're right. I guess that's probably what hurt that for me.
It's like Dave taking over the world b/c of Halforums™.
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Does that mean Dave is really both sides of every political argument in here, and I'm his sock puppet?


#88

drawn_inward

drawn_inward

GasBandit said:
Does that mean Dave is really both sides of every political argument in here, and I'm his sock puppet?
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Needs a Locke!
lock.png


#89

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

drawn_inward said:
I just finished the book last night, and I don't really want to see the movie now. I really don't get the hype AT ALL. Why do you all love this book so much? There was some creepy stuff in it. Why are the boys naked in their beds? Ugh. A naked fight? I just found that stuff to be a bit pedobear worthy and unrealistic. Also, the book would have been a bit more believable (plot and dialogue) if you shifted the kids' ages by +5.

Don't read the spoilers if you haven't read the book!

The pre-internet and laptop predictions. That was cool.
The twist didn't throw me b/c the book was nearly over and they hadn't fought anyone yet. If they had been fighting for real for nearly the whole book then it would have had more of an impact.
Also, I found the whole epilogue sort of unnecessary and boring.
The plot on Earth had me eye-rolling quite a bit.

This book is supposed to be one of the best sci-fi books, but it really fell flat for me. I guess it's an okay "kids" book despite the somewhat creep factor.

So, I might watch it on DVD, but won't go see it. Feel free to hammer me with the Disagree button.
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I read it when I was 18 and had no issues with it seeming like a "kids" book. In fact, if you read the introduction, Card notes parents telling him kids don't talk/think like the ones in the book, whereas kids were telling him he got it right. I remember being 8 years old, and I've seen my cousins at 8 years old when their parents aren't around. You'd be surprised.

The naked stuff never bothered me because it's a book, and I don't sit and visualize every scene in exact detail when I read, so I didn't see a bunch of naked kids. And nothing sexual was going on. The only one who hinted at such a thing was Bonzo and Ender recognizes this as being stupidly divisive. As someone noted earlier in the thread, the Battle School promoted this to dehumanize the kids.

Nothing you mention has anything to do with the characters, and in most stories in any media I go for, the characters are the core--without them, you might as well not have a story. So if you couldn't get into the characters, you weren't going to like the book. I loved them and identified strongly with Ender, and oddly enough, both of his siblings. Other Battle School kids were interesting and colorful; I enjoyed reading about them enough to read Ender's Shadow.

I'm not trying to convince you to like it; no one can, just like if I go see the movie and dislike it, people aren't going to be able to convince me I did. I'm just trying to explain where others see it, or at least myself.

I wasn't going to throw in a disagree until I went back and noticed you inviting them. Since you didn't get what you wanted out of the book, Halforums provides. Because we care. :drunk:

EDIT:

What the hell? Boring epilogue my ass. Just ...

Nope, nevermind, I said what I said. You didn't get into the characters, so of course you wouldn't care that Ender felt guilty for committing genocide.


#90

drawn_inward

drawn_inward

Zero Esc said:
I read it when I was 18 and had no issues with it seeming like a "kids" book. In fact, if you read the introduction, Card notes parents telling him kids don't talk/think like the ones in the book, whereas kids were telling him he got it right. I remember being 8 years old, and I've seen my cousins at 8 years old when their parents aren't around. You'd be surprised.

The naked stuff never bothered me because it's a book, and I don't sit and visualize every scene in exact detail when I read, so I didn't see a bunch of naked kids. And nothing sexual was going on. The only one who hinted at such a thing was Bonzo and Ender recognizes this as being stupidly divisive. As someone noted earlier in the thread, the Battle School promoted this to dehumanize the kids.

Nothing you mention has anything to do with the characters, and in most stories in any media I go for, the characters are the core--without them, you might as well not have a story. So if you couldn't get into the characters, you weren't going to like the book. I loved them and identified strongly with Ender, and oddly enough, both of his siblings. Other Battle School kids were interesting and colorful; I enjoyed reading about them enough to read Ender's Shadow.

I'm not trying to convince you to like it; no one can, just like if I go see the movie and dislike it, people aren't going to be able to convince me I did. I'm just trying to explain where others see it, or at least myself.

I wasn't going to throw in a disagree until I went back and noticed you inviting them. Since you didn't get what you wanted out of the book, Halforums provides. Because we care. :drunk:

EDIT:

What the hell? Boring epilogue my ass. Just ...

Nope, nevermind, I said what I said. You didn't get into the characters, so of course you wouldn't care that Ender felt guilty for committing genocide.
Click to expand...
[DOUBLEPOST=1383149078,1383148590][/DOUBLEPOST]I appreciate your restraint. I can tell that most of you really dig the book. I've been meaning to read it for years, but never got to it. I still think that I would have liked it better if I was younger. Same for Harry Potter. I wish I dug it. LoTR and The Hobbit are the only books that I cherish still as an adult.

I also had a tough time understanding any kind of metaphor in literature. Lord of the Flies was always about a bunch of kids on an island for me.


#91

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

drawn_inward said:
[DOUBLEPOST=1383149078,1383148590][/DOUBLEPOST]I appreciate your restraint. I can tell that most of you really dig the book. I've been meaning to read it for years, but never got to it. I still think that I would have liked it better if I was younger. Same for Harry Potter. I wish I dug it. LoTR and The Hobbit are the only books that I cherish still as an adult.

I also had a tough time understanding any kind of metaphor in literature. Lord of the Flies was always about a bunch of kids on an island for me.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I apologize if I came off like an asshole at all. I'm very much live and let live these days over most matters big and small, so it's weird that I'm like this over this book. People hate my favorite book, Stephen King's It, and trash it left and right, and with that one I'm all "haters gonna hate". I don't know; I'm in a weird mood today.

I'm not the biggest Lord of the Flies fan either, but I love the ending.

"What's all this then? You're British! You're supposed to be better than this."

I know the point of the book is how wrong that sentiment is, but it was still funny to me.


#92

drawn_inward

drawn_inward

Zero Esc said:
Yeah, I apologize if I came off like an asshole at all.
Click to expand...
Nothing to apologize about good sir! :drunk:


#93

Covar

Covar

Zero Esc said:
What the hell? Boring epilogue my ass. Just ...

Nope, nevermind, I said what I said. You didn't get into the characters, so of course you wouldn't care that Ender felt guilty for committing genocide.
Click to expand...
It's funny, as I was reaching the epilogue I was thinking that I enjoyed the book, but really don't get why people rave about it. Then I read the epilogue and my love for the book grew three sizes.


#94

Dei

Dei

I will say that after the first book, I got really sick of Ender. Bean will forever be my favorite.


#95

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

The only "sequel" I really liked was Ender's Shadow. The Speaker for the Dead trilogy was kind of "eh" and I had to force myself to get through Shadow of the Hegemon. Didn't continue from there.


#96

D

Dubyamn

Zero Esc said:
The only "sequel" I really liked was Ender's Shadow. The Speaker for the Dead trilogy was kind of "eh" and I had to force myself to get through Shadow of the Hegemon. Didn't continue from there.
Click to expand...
I adored the Shadow series. Was really cool and I liked the Earth politics bits of it. But if you didn't like Shadow of the Hegemon then Shadow Puppets probably wouldn't do much for you though I do think you would like Shadow of the Giant which is one of my favorite books.


#97

Dei

Dei

“The enemy’s gate is down.” Ender’s Game | Tor.com


#98

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Dei said:
“The enemy’s gate is down.” Ender’s Game | Tor.com
Click to expand...
There’s a super awkward romantic angle that the script seems to be playing between Ender and Petra
Click to expand...
And we're done here.


#99

GasBandit

GasBandit

Just had to throw the twi-hards a bone.


#100

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

GasBandit said:
Just had to throw the twi-hards a bone.
Click to expand...
Yup.

Sons of bitches.


#101

Covar

Covar

GasBandit said:
Just had to throw the twi-hards a bone.
Click to expand...
Far more likely it's just hollywood's need for a romantic subplot in every movie.


#102

GasBandit

GasBandit

Covar said:
Far more likely it's just hollywood's need for a romantic subplot in every movie.
Click to expand...
Potato, Potahto.


#103

Covar

Covar

I thought it's potatoe?


#104

GasBandit

GasBandit

Covar said:
I thought it's potatoe?
Click to expand...
Only if you're Dan Quayle.


#105

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Covar said:
Far more likely it's just hollywood's need for a romantic subplot in every movie.
Click to expand...
That would really depend on how it's handled. I've seen enough recent shit to know when Twilight's fingerprints are on the romantic angle. I'd have to see this movie to judge whether it was the typical Hollywood add-on or more of a Twilight-influenced thing, and I'm not going to do that.


#106

Covar

Covar

GasBandit said:
Only if you're Dan Quayle.
Click to expand...
:ninja:


#107

GasBandit

GasBandit

Just to clarify my quip, I was saying that the Twi-hards are the demographic that hollywood producers are courting by adding extraneous romantic subplots to movies that don't need/are damaged by them.

And while I'm clarifying stuff, I guess I should also make sure that Tress and others realize that when I said "the governing mindset" I meant governing as in dominant and most influential, not literally of Government.

... but that was a different thread, wasn't it.


#108

Gusto

Gusto

GasBandit said:
Potato, Potahto.
Click to expand...
Covar said:
I thought it's potatoe?
Click to expand...


#109

strawman

strawman

I was actually able to get into a 9:15 showing tonight, however we are now experiencing an unintended intermission. The screen went dark, but the audio kept playing.

We'll see if they get it back up, or give us a refund. The IMAX is showing it at 10:45, so if there are tickets left maybe that'll work if they don't get this one up and running...

So far it's fantastic. The visuals and acting are perfect.


#110

Far

Far

Projector probably over heated and turned itself off if the sound is still playing. Possible the bulb broke too. One is a fairly easy fix, the other not so much.

Hell, someone may have misplaced a dowser cue telling the thing to close. Lots of thing could be the culprit and depending on whether the projector is digital or film, getting you back to where the film was without missing anything is either totally possible or not at all.


#111

strawman

strawman

They restarted the movie a little before where we left off, and gave everyone a free pass to be used later. Good customer service, IMO.

I really enjoyed the movie. I think it was all put together very well, and while the one reviewer make a good point about the ending going by perhaps a little too fast, I thought it was acceptable. I would rather have had a 3 hour movie with more battles showing his increasing abilities and strengthening ties between friends, but I felt it was as faithful to the book as a movie ought to be, and look forward to watching it again.


#112

Far

Far

I also really liked it but agree the ending was rushed, but not so much in a way that completely destroyed it. A review was posted that claimed there was an awkward romance added between Petra and Ender and I simply did not see this. If anything it was more of a brother/sister or even best friend bond. There were no longing stares into each others eyes. They cared for each other, sure, but not in that way.

I do hope there is a directors cut with added battles and tactics building but understand the length needed to be near what it was for a general audience.

Not sure the validity of these claims but apparently OSC won't see anything from this films release money wise, so if you have a moral quandry regarding funding him through seeing this film, that may be moot. Though if the movie does well book sales will go up and he does still profit from those. I do beleive it is already currently sitting atop the sales charts for books at the moment.


#113

strawman

strawman

Yeah, the whole bit about the "awkward romance" just wasn't an issue.

One could interpret their closeness that way if one wanted, but they didn't even hug, nevermind kiss or touch each other in a romantic way., IIRC. They spent time alone together training.


#114

Covar

Covar

So it looks like I'll be seeing this movie next week as part of a team outing at work. I'm still kind of meh about seeing this movie.


#115

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

MovieBob's review of it is basically, "It's not terrible, but it's also not very good." Skip to 1:30 if you want to skip his soap-boxing about Card himself.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/8368-Enders-Game


#116

Bowielee

Bowielee

Yeah, seems like most reviewers can't just bypass the Card personal stuff, which I think is not relevent to a review at all.

And that's coming from me, the liberal board homo.

Anyway, All I've been reading is that it's mediocre.


#117

strawman

strawman

Reviews are pretty mixed:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/enders-game/

I'm waiting for Howard Taylor's thoughts on it. He's one of the people whose reviews fairly accurately predict what I will like. He's ranked it 15th on his list of best films this year, just below his threshold of awesome, though it was well above his threshold of disappointment. Has only ranked it, though, perhaps a writeup will come in a day or two.

Some reviewers are suggesting that this is a solid beginning to a new franchise, but honestly I don't see it.

Are there signs that there may be sequels?


#118

Bowielee

Bowielee

Film Brain equated it to The Golden Compass in that it's apparent what the movie is trying to do, but it will probably fall flat in the numbers to justify a sequel. From what I've been reading the first portion of the movie is one big exposition dump and it largely ignores Ender's family in the form of his brother and sister, which are important character issues as far as him walking the line between being compassionate and becoming a bloodthirsty psychopath.

I haven't actually read the books, so I don't have a good comparison to make.


#119

Far

Far

I could see a sequel based on the end but don't think it will do well enough to warrant one.

As for ignoring Val and Peter, they aren't exactly ignored but you don't really see much of them. It's established that Val is compassionate towards her brother Ender at least, to where you can tell they are very close. Peter is shown to be a monster with whom Ender sees in himself while despising that he does. From there their roles are mostly dropped, which, while disappointing as I love their arc in the book, would have severely lengthened the film in a bad way. It may have been what it needed to slow the pacing down or it might have made everything else feel more rushed. Its difficult to say really.

I don't agree with those saying it wasn't good. It wasnt perfect and wasn't amazing but is still one of my favourite movies so far this year.

I reorganised the list from the link @stienman posted based on what I've seen this year and how id rate them against each other based on how fun or entertaining I found them, not quality of the movie necessarily.

Pacific Rim
The World's End
Ender's Game
Iron Man 3
Gravity
Elysium
Star Trek Into Darkness
This is the End
Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs 2
Despicable Me 2
Monsters University
The Lone Ranger
Warm Bodies
Kick-Ass 2
The Wolverine
Man of Steel
World War Z
Oz the Great and Powerful
G.I. Joe: Retaliation
Oblivion
After Earth


#120

General Specific

General Specific

@dill616 and I saw the movie this weekend and both of us enjoyed it. I had read the book before, but she had not. That will probably change soon.

Edit: Forum ate my original post, so had to redo it.


#121

strawman

strawman

I decided to go ahead and retread the book.

Still good.


#122

Cog

Cog

I want to see all those movies but here they are all in spanish. I hate watching movies in any language except the one they are filmed. Even in languages I don't understand.


#123

dill616

dill616

I did enjoy Ender's Game. I could predict how things were going to go because that's how I would have done it. Ender was an awesome, full-bodied character. I've been reading SO MUCH dystopian YA fiction over the past two years. I thought I was done. However, it was nice to see Ender's evolution play out on screen. I'm not a Sci-Fi person, but I give it a thumbs up.


#124

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Listening to Cinema Snob's Midnight Screening (he didn't read it, but co-pilot reviewer did) just confirms my not wanting to see it. I'm glad other people had a good time, but it sounds like it tears the book to shreds, and a rush-job, and that they dumb Ender down to essentially "luck goes my way" Harry Potter-style.

I'm lucky my cousin's so lazy.


#125

strawman

strawman

Luck goes Enders way in a terribly unrealistic manner, except that he and his two siblings are essentially super intelligent.

The premise, however, isn't about the boy hero. There are lots of stories of people being or becoming great, superhuman even.

The questions approached are about whether the end justifies the means - destroying the humanity of children to save the human race. Whether genocide is permissible. Fighting one's inner demons. Whether children should have a place at the decision making table, politically or otherwise. What it means to be a warrior.

I know you trust these reviewers implicitly, but so far what they've said appears to stem from an extraordinarily shallow reading of the book, and the kicker is that it isn't a particularly deep book, either. It is all very close to the surface.


#126

dill616

dill616

So glad I haven't read the book now.


#127

blotsfan

blotsfan

I haven't seen the movie yet, but did it leave room for them to make an enders shadow movie? I don't know if that's really be doable, but I liked it even more than Enders game.


#128

drawn_inward

drawn_inward

stienman said:
stem from an extraordinarily shallow reading of the book, and the kicker is that it isn't a particularly deep book, either. It is all very close to the surface.
Click to expand...
That's probably why I didn't like the book. Sadly, I didn't really "get" all that stuff you put in your post when I read the book. I very rarely get the subtext of what I read. I usually take it all at face value. As in: Moby Dick = book about a dude obsessed with a whale; Lord of the Flies = asshole kids on vacation; Frankenstein = science run amok.

I read Frankenstein when I was in H.S., and when I got to college I took a European History course. The professor (rightfully so) focused on the French Revolution, and he assigned Frankenstein to read. I re-read it somewhat skimming my way through it. When he discussed it and how the book is a commentary on the French Revolution and the Enlightenment Movement, my brain trickled out of my ear.

Damn, am I daft?


#129

strawman

strawman

No, I don't think so. When I took a fantasy literature course I learned a lot of things I didn't actually want to know, and reading the books was annoying because I had to focus to figure out the subtext. Even though they didn't discuss it in class, the stuff I learned there forever ruined the fox and the hound for me.

But Enders game didn't seem that way to me this last reading. When I read it as a teen I didn't see some of the stuff I see now though, but a lot of it isn't just hidden beneath the cover, the characters actually voice many of those concerns. To me it was like watching "Young Frankenstein" as a child and laughing at everything, but then seeing it as an adult and being surprised at the overt innuendo laced throughout the movie.

Nothing was so deep that I recalled that course. Although, sadly, now that I think about it there are things in it that used stuff I learned in that course... So maybe I'm wrong and it isn't close to the surface?

But perhaps it's just because the book speaks to me. I really do wish there were three movies instead of one.[DOUBLEPOST=1383787683,1383787316][/DOUBLEPOST]
blotsfan said:
I haven't seen the movie yet, but did it leave room for them to make an enders shadow movie? I don't know if that's really be doable, but I liked it even more than Enders game.
Click to expand...
They did, but it didn't feel like the story needed to continue or screamed for a sequel. But the door is open. Opening weekend numbers were good, but not great, and the production was so troubled and painful that I wonder if they'll pursue it.

The only reason they kicked it out the door at all was to retain the rights. If they didn't produce it in ten years the rights revert, and it's a good enough series that handled well it could be a Harry potter of a sort.

So they may actually be planning and sequel, or they might be planning to remake it later, or they may have just been trying to recoup their costs and nothing else will happen.


#130

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

stienman said:
Luck goes Enders way in a terribly unrealistic manner, except that he and his two siblings are essentially super intelligent.

The premise, however, isn't about the boy hero. There are lots of stories of people being or becoming great, superhuman even.

The questions approached are about whether the end justifies the means - destroying the humanity of children to save the human race. Whether genocide is permissible. Fighting one's inner demons. Whether children should have a place at the decision making table, politically or otherwise. What it means to be a warrior.

I know you trust these reviewers implicitly, but so far what they've said appears to stem from an extraordinarily shallow reading of the book, and the kicker is that it isn't a particularly deep book, either. It is all very close to the surface.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if you're responding to me or not--the reviewers comment says you are, but some of your post suggests you're talking to someone who hasn't read the book, and I'm pretty sure I said that I have. Many times. It's easily in my top five favorite books.

And I disagree; I do think it's a deep book--there are weighty issues at hand, as you've listed above. I think what you mean is that it isn't a dense book, in that you don't have to poke and pry to get at those issues.

So I know the book. My problem is all the deviations and compromises it sounds like were made so the movie could be a general crowd-pleaser. And that's fine, I understand that, that's the nature of adaptation. But as someone who loves the book, I have a problem with them taking a smart protagonist like Ender and tossing credit to luck. Lots of movies do that--this one didn't have to. I also understand what you say about them having to get the movie out or losing the rights. I get that; that's a practical business decision, if not the most artistically meritorious one.

What I can't understand is why so many fans of the book are eating it up. Even the positive reviews by people who read the books grate my nerves. They mention the stuff that bugs them but "it's not a big deal." It feels like they're trying to convince themselves. Have we been so desperate for a visual adaptation of the novel that we'd take whatever came?

I'd probably be less bitchy if I could find my copy of the book, but all our non-Kindle books are in a stack of boxes in the closet and I have no idea where it's buried, so I can't read it right now. I guess I should get those bookshelves my wife has been nagging me to get for ... two years. :|


#131

Covar

Covar

So I saw this Wednesday. After mulling it over my recommendation is that you go read the book instead (and you can pick it up at your local library and not have to financially support OSC). A lot of the key moments felt like they had no weight to them, mostly due to lack of time to build up, and I found that I really didn't care about the situation or anyone in the movie without referencing the book in my head as to why it was important. I can't really say if I would have enjoyed this movie blind, but everything I enjoyed about the movie was because I read the book (and Harrison Ford).


#132

Dei

Dei

Just saw this and I died inside when
Graff told Ender about the ansible. That was half the point of the ending that no one knew about it. (Except Bean)


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