Build me a new Desktop!

Within the next month or so I plan to start to seriously build a new gaming desktop and while I'd like to buy top of the line across the board, I'll take a notch slightly below that.

So what is new in the world of desktops since 2007? I plan to use Win 7 (finally) and don't need a monitor. I really want something I can sink my teeth into.
 
J

Jiarn

You really should have just put Pat's name in the title -laugh-

I'm currently using a i940 (OCed), 8gb RAM (don't remember the hz), 850psu, Radeon 5870 XXX (OCed) and I'm not sure on the MB. It's played everything I want like a beast.
 
Seriously, Tech Talk should be renamed Ask PatrThom

-edit-

Ooh, make that Ask PatrThom or Matt2 (sorry Matt, seems like you haven't been around lately!)
 
J

Jiarn

I would rate importance "Processor > Graphics > PSU > Motherboard > RAM" in terms of where you should put the heft of your funds. Balanced around that.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
I would rate importance "Processor > Graphics > PSU > Motherboard > RAM" in terms of where you should put the heft of your funds. Balanced around that.
I'd put graphics ahead of processor, but otherwise I agree.

Also, a $1,500 budget is not going to get top of the line across the board, or even one step down from that. A six-core i7 alone would eat up half that budget, and a single high-end graphics card could take up the rest and more. The good news is that you don't need top of the line to get great performance, and you'll get a lot more bang-for-your-buck by going high-mid-range.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Graphics can be easily replaced, processor needs to last longer.
True, but graphics are more of a bottleneck, in general.

I guess it depends on how much you plan to upgrade this specific machine. For me, when I made my last build, my graphics and processor were fairly evenly matched, so upgrading one without the other wouldn't have seen a large improvement (and they cost about the same as well). I did this knowing I wouldn't have a lot of money to spend on hardware upgrades, and that I'd likely be looking at a new system a few years down the road, rather than incremental updates along the way.
 
I'd spend more on the processor, It's been my experience that the really good cpu upgrades use some new slot, requiring a new mobo and possibly new ram. Video cards are easier to upgrade and more flexible even, what with SLI and CrossFire.
 
J

Jiarn

That's pretty much exactly how I see it. Not only that, but instead of shelling out for a completely new card, sometimes for a low price you can just add a second card and boost your power up to that of a brand new card, while not ditching the one you had previously.
 
Drop a solid state disk in there for the main drive and you'll see a noticeable performance increase. A lot of people skip the hard drive, but it is currently the worst bottleneck in most systems, and the processor and graphics card often idle waiting for stuff to load from the drive. Modern games and the OS perform a good job pre-caching stuff to RAM, but they still aren't perfect, and a fast SSD is not terribly expensive anymore.
 
My current PC has a Raptor Drive as the local C drive and I use another drive for storage.

I do agree with some of the point brought up thus far and I feel pretty confident that 1500 or so can provide me extremely potent, heck 3 years ago I bought this PC for barely 1100 using parts from TigerDirect/DirectCanada.
Added at: 17:13
I'd definitely would go with Processor before all else then Graphics.
 
What's the primary focus? Gaming? Versatility? Or longevity? For an even greater challenge, pick two (in order of importance, of course).

--Patrick
 
High quality gaming rig that can last me for some time (3 years would be swell)

Gaming then Longevity
 
Honestly, I'm flattered. It also makes me happy that the people who take the advice end up happy with it. I listen to the requirements, pick solid parts from reviews and build the sorts of systems that I'd like to have (going by the stated requirements), but it's all vicarious, so it's good to know that practice matches the theory. And yes, you two*, if my batting average stays this high I'll seriously start thinking about doing this as a sideline, if not a full career.

Right, then. 2hrs of research later, we have the following:

First, the bad news. You simply must wait another week or two before you start buying stuff. Sandy Bridge is about to be officially released for sale on January 9th, and it is a big step up from the older Nehalems. Also, it is a new socket (LGA 1155), which should help you stay more modern than the 'older' (by all of about a year) LGA 1156 and LGA 1366 Nehalem/Westmere sockets. Building a brand new 1156/1366 system right now would make about as much sense as buying a brand new VCR. It is a new architecture, so nobody knows if there will be any late-breaking revelations, but for now the test results are clear: If you are building a new system right now, you should choose either AMD AM3 or Intel Sandy Bridge. For gaming, Intel still holds the lead, so Sandy Bridge it is. There isn't enough data yet on AMD's next chips for me to make any kind of guess how well their Fusion line will perform, except to say that I think getting good performance out of it is going to mean rewriting software to take full advantage. We'll see.

After making that decision, and taking your budget into account, the rest pretty much falls into place.
(Prices are as accurate as I could get seeing as how some of these things aren't actually released yet)


270.00 MLB - P67-based such as Gigabyte's GA-P67A-UD5
-P67 allows multiple lanes for SLI/XFire, H67 does not. Easy choice.​
-Make sure to get a board that allows for x8/x8 slots rather than x16/x4 or x16/x1.​
225.00 CPU - Core I5-2500K
-The 2500 is right under the top-of-the-line 2600, but costs half as much.​
-The "-K" suffix means the multiplier is unlocked to allow for clock speed adjustments.​
40.00 HSF - Zalman CNPS8000A
-Quiet, inexpensive, and will help keep the surrounding voltage regulators cool, also.​
NOTE: I could not confirm 100% compatibility with the Gigabyte MLB (since it's not out yet),​
but Zalman's site does not have any warnings about socket area clearance.​
100.00 RAM - 2x4GB high-quality (CAS 7) DDR3-1333 (PC3 1066x)
-No real difference in application performance between 1333/1600 to offset the increased heat/power.​
-Latency is what matters for gaming. Try to get CAS8 or even CAS7 if available.​
150.00 OS - Win7 Pro 64-bit OEM
-My Windows OS of choice for any build these days.​
220.00 PSU - Seasonic X850
-Good power efficiency and plenty of juice for lots of drives and a pair of hungry GPUs.​
400.00 GPU - ATI 6970 or NVIDIA GTX 570, your choice
-Both of these cards trade performance depending on the benchmark, so make your choice with these:​
ATI 6970:​
-Larger framebuffer (2GB v. only 1.25GB on 570) means more/bigger monitors, higher quality textures.​
-Better OpenCL support (if that matters to you).​
-Supports HDCP sound over HDMI, no secondary audio cable needed.​
(I'm not sure if the 570 has finally gained sound over HDMI, I couldn't find anything that confirmed)​
GTX 570:​
-Slightly faster framerate (on average) in most games.​
-Supports CUDA and PhysX​
-Lower noise and temperature than 6970 (but same power usage)​
------- ---
1405.00 SUB - System price
95.00 XTR - Budget surplus

Reuse your old ATX case, DVD, HDDs, etc. and replace them later (if you want). If your current PSU is beefy enough, you can put off the Seasonic purchase until later and free up an additional 200 or so.

A year from now (when prices come down!), either replace your system drive with a pair of good, enterprise-level SSDs in RAID0 to eliminate the HDD bottleneck OR add a second graphics card for SLI/XFire. Then do the other one the year after. Assuming none of your parts have failed by then, you should have 3 years of awesome followed by 2 years of pretty good.

Make sure you let us all know how it turns out. Yes, it's going to be faster than your current rig (no matter what you currently have, I'm sure), that's a given. The questions is, how much faster. ;)

--Patrick
*You know who y'all are. And thanks for the nudge.
 
Going to read this more carefully when I'm not this plastered but... cann you also cover what is new and awesome with HDDS? To be honest, I'\m looking to replace everything except the monitor... and these rpices... damn Pat... they are sexy! I appreeciate all of this.
 
Right now you'll be hearing a lot about 'advanced format' Hard Disk Drives (HDDs). These are drives that internally work in chunk sizes of 4k instead of the old 512 bytes (0.5k). This means they can pack more data into smaller spaces, but it also means they don't work so well with any version of Windows before Vista SP1.

Also, SSDs are on everyone's mind, but most of them really, really suck at small random writes. The newest ones (Sandforce 1200-based, for instance) are starting to be built to compensate. Do your homework. Avoid disappointment.

Go ahead and replace everything but the monitor. But reuse the non-critical parts (such as the drives, kbd, etc) to save money you can spend on critical parts (CPU, GPU). To save time and trouble, you might want to spring for a new case during the new build (so you don't have to disassemble/reassemble later), but that might put you over your budget, so I left that option up to you.

For what it's worth, I appreciate that you're willing to take a risk on the recommendations of a stranger over the Internet. ;)

--Patrick
 
Personally, I truly appreciate it... the initial researrch is a good thing. In a week or two I'll probably have the near final listing of waht I want to do and once that is done... I'll order, and start building and show you guys some pictures as the progresss goes.

As far as HDDs go, if you had to buy one todya for a main drive, what would you go with? (I'll probably spring some extra cash and gett another terabye backup)
 
The Raptor you already have is probably better as a boot drive than any non-SSD you can get today. If it's still working for you, I'd stick with it. The newer VelociRaptor is faster (when hooked with SATA300 or better), but you already have the Raptor, which means more money to spend on other components. The rest of your new computer will be so much faster than the old that you won't care that the HDD speed hasn't increased. Then, in a year or so when SSD prices fall, do the RAID0 thing I mention above to remove that bottleneck and reignite your computer's speed (which you will see in boot times, defragment, etc). Get the base built properly. There will be time to save up for the multi-stage turbocharger later.

--Patrick
 
Sandy Bridge reviews are trickling out. SB performance is about 5-15% faster (on average) than the current 3-digit i3/i5/i7 CPUs at the same clock speed. Not a huge deal...until you realize that the 3-digit chips max out around 3.8GHz, but people are pushing the new Sandy Bridge chips as high as 4.4GHz with just the stock heatsink. These new chips have some sweet headroom. Prices look to be right about where they were estimated, too.

--Patrick
 
Nice man. I'll be progressing on this sometime next week. I hope to have my new rig by month's end.
 
Oh and anything new on the front for a new computer case? I have a black Antek P182 it's pretty solid and will go out with my current rig (I found a friend who'll buy it for $300 and that's good enough for me). I'm looking for great performance but I'd like a system that runs REAL QUIET since my rig is in my study room and to be honest, I can read a book in the same room and barely hear the fan go.
 
Haven't really been keeping up on ATX cases, my latest builds have been more towards Micro-ATX or Mini-ITX in size, so I will just run right to the editors' choice list of one of my frequently visted websites, and they point me towards the Silverstone Fortress FT02. It's an interesting case design, and it earns high marks from a website devoted to making as quiet of a PC as possible, so I would think they would know what they are talking about.

--Patrick
 
M

Matt²

Seriously, Tech Talk should be renamed Ask PatrThom

-edit-

Ooh, make that Ask PatrThom or Matt2 (sorry Matt, seems like you haven't been around lately!)
I haven't, and that's been by design, business and the lure of Fable 2. ;)
 

Necronic

Staff member
PatrThom and I share the "I'm old enough to want a computer that looks like an adult owns it" mentallity.

One other vendor (always have to plug them) is Lian-Li. Very expensive cases, but they are exceptional.

Oh yeah and for the heatsink, you only have to pay an extra 10-20$ for the cooler master H60 or whatever it is, and that thing is effectively silent (as well as being very low profile)

And wtf on Nehalem already being obsolete? Intel isn't doing themselves any favors in changing the socket type that fast.
 
Yeah. I don't care about LEDs, rave wire, or any of that. I want a computer that goes fast, does a lot, and won't choke 2yrs down the road. There are components I'd love to own, but nobody is ever going to see the LEDs buried inside my case, so why have 'em? At least let me turn 'em off and save the power.

Yes, Lian-Li makes good cases. My main PC is currently built in a PC-7.

Intel shoots themselves in the foot (socket-wise) about every 2 years. They've been doing it since slot-1. It's like they don't want anyone else to copy their sockets or something.

--Patrick
 
I tend to be in that crowd too, all my friends have bright flashy boxes that do crazy things. mine is just a dull matte black box filled to the gills with gear. it also kicks everyone elses ass...
 
J

Jiarn

I like a flashy case if it doesn't cost me more than $50 over an economical case. Also, Red LEDs ftw!
 
I like a case that has good airflow and is easy to build in. The fact that my case has a window and LED is irrelevant to me. I'm more annoyed by the painfully bright blue LED on my right speaker. dear speaker manufacturers, I know your speakers are on because I can here things coming out of them, I don't need a distracting light to tell me what I already know.
 
All the LEDs do is keep me up at night* when I'm trying to sleep during a backup or something.

--Patrick
*by which I mean "...the early, early morning after I finally go to bed I need every last stinkin' minute of sleep by then don't you seeeeeeee???"
 

Necronic

Staff member
Just because it isn't flashy doesn't mean its cheap. Usually you are paying a premium for the manufacturing quality and noise isolation.
 
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