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Apple will never satisfy my lust for cheap, powerful hardware

Discussion in 'General' started by stienman, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. GasBandit

    GasBandit Ask me about my Reprehensible Filth Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. mikerc

    mikerc Full Participant

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    Sheesh. First Windows skipped form 8 to 10 & now Apple are doing the same. What's wrong with the number 9?
     
  3. GasBandit

    GasBandit Ask me about my Reprehensible Filth Staff Member

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    Well, everything that Apple ever does is copied from either MS or Android, after all.
     
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  4. Sara_2814

    Sara_2814 Contributor

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    I'm still on an iPhone 6. I don't really have a reason to upgrade to the 8. TouchID and ApplePay were my big reasons for upgrading to the 6, and they still work fine. The X is nifty. I like the new camera features and the facial recognition looks interesting, but not enough to upgrade at this point. Maybe when the next version comes out.

    Definitely getting a Watch, though, specifically for the health & fitness stuff. It would be nice to get the cellular version, but that's going to depend on how much AT&T is going to charge for an extra plan.
     
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  5. Covar

    Covar It's Clobberin' Time!!!

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    I thought the line was amusing, but then saddened when I realized that if they didn't mention twins after talking about the detection rate there would have been a whole lot of shitty articles from blogs bringing it up as criticism as if its some kind of gapping non-obvious security flaw.
     
  6. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    Or Xerox, or Star Trek...
    It's not like everyone isn't falling over themselves to copy everyone else. Smartphones are so cutthroat these days, but Apple's the only one selling their flagships in the millions rather than the thousands.
    No idea what method the carriers are going to use to squeeze extra money out of you just because you have a watch, but I'm sure they'll think of something.

    A bit of info for people who might've missed it in the fine print: Using the Gen3 watch requires iOS 11, which means at least a 5s or better...BUT using the LTE version of the watch will require an iPhone 6 or newer. No 5s' allowed.

    Personally, my biggest disappointment is no new Mac Mini. I really want to replace my 2009 Mini server with something more current, but I want it to have 4 cores, not 2, and I'm not going to pay the premium being demanded by the people who still have the 4-core 2012 machines (they're actually more expensive now than they were when they were new!).

    --Patrick
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  7. Eriol

    Eriol One Of Us

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    I think the name of the thread is funny in light of the announced prices.
     
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  8. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    Yeah, everything seems to have increased in price by $50.

    --Patrick
     
  9. DarkAudit

    DarkAudit Back to Back Champion

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  10. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    I guess this is part of the iOS 11="64-bit only" release. The people this is going to hurt the most is people with older equipment. If you have an older iOS device and go to download an app that's too new for that device, you will get a message that you can't do that. The workaround was to go to your computer and buy the app there instead, then when you go into the previous purchases section on the iOS device and try to download it there, it would tell you it was unsupported, but then allow you the option to download an older, compatible version. So unless there is a new method, the only way to download an app to an older device now is going to be to first have a newer device to buy it.

    --Patrick
     
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  11. Ravenpoe

    Ravenpoe Forum God

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    Everything you just said is why I hate Apple. I realize that there are tons of people who aren't affected by this and love their Apple products and that's perfectly fine, but that type of scenario just rubs me entirely the wrong way.
     
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  12. DarkAudit

    DarkAudit Back to Back Champion

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    They're certainly not the first nor the only ones who remove functionality in order to move people onto their preferred path. But it does have the unintended side effect of this. People going "screw you, I'm out," when they go too far. GNOME was that for me. The early 2.x version was a well-deserved classic. But then the dev teams started dropping features and options that people had come to rely on. They insisted it was in the name of usability, but for many of its fans, it was gradually becoming crippleware. Eventually I had enough and just quit GNOME entirely.
     
  13. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    The parodies have begun!



    Yeah, I know. But it looks like Microsoft is adopting the same policy. Your computer is still running Win7/Win8.x? Too bad, you must move to WinX. At this point, you either take your pick of macOS or WinX and suck up the stuff you don't like, or else you wade into the morass of *nix variants and get used to doing all the tech support yourself (which is fine if you know how, but not a realistic option for Mr./Mrs. Consumer).

    --Patrick
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  14. Eriol

    Eriol One Of Us

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    Given that the link you gave is about NEW processors, I don't think that's the same as "still running win7." You've swapped out the cpu, mobo, and RAM at a minimum (which non-techies don't do, they just buy a computer that's complete). That's hardly the same situation as "your computer was 100% fine and you changed nothing... but now you have to move to Win10" like you're implying.
     
  15. fade

    fade Insert "Yo mama" joke here Staff Member

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    As opposed to my Android, where they solve the problem by just never updating the OS.
     
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  16. DarkAudit

    DarkAudit Back to Back Champion

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    Which particular they in your case? I hated having to wait on first HTC and then Sprint to give their blessing to the Gingerbread update on my Evo. By the time they finally did, Honeycomb was already out (albeit for tablets only), and Ice Cream Sandwich was imminent. I ended up just rooting and running Cyanogenmod instead.
     
  17. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    It's not about the CPU being new, it's about the configuration previously being supported. I know this may be hard for you to believe, but there are people who bought a Skylake system running Win8 or Win7 because that was their preferred version of OS, the one they were perhaps most familiar with, or that their peripherals were most compatible with, and which was fully supported on the platform at the time, with the promise of support for many years to come. Then Microsoft unexpectedly said to these people, "If you want to continue to run those older operating systems, then you should've bought an older (i.e., slower) computer. Your fault for buying something new. We are discontinuing 7/8 support for your machines BUT we will continue to support people with older 7/8 hardware than yours because we have decided that supporting all the originally compatible hardware is too hard."

    Apple's app situation is one of, "You may want to buy ChickenAndEggApp, but the current shipping version of C&E is v3.0, which will not work with your device. The last supported version of C&E for your device was v2.6, which we would happily download to your device in its place except that we can't because you haven't purchased any version of C&E yet. Please try again once you sign into hardware which supports v3.0 so that you can purchase v3.0 so that its purchase appears on your record, and then we will allow you to download v2.6 for your older device even though you just had to replace it with a newer one in order to buy v3.0 in the first place."

    --Patrick
     
  18. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    The Beatles have it locked up under copyright.

    --Patrick
     
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  19. Bubble181

    Bubble181 The odd one out

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    Most expensive X in the USA: $1149
    With current market, that's €960
    Announced European price: €1329

    Well, thanks a bunch, Apple!

    (not that I'd ever buy it anyway)
     
  20. LittleSin

    LittleSin Forum "Cthulhu"

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    Without reading the rest of the thread: WTF APPLE???
     
  21. Eriol

    Eriol One Of Us

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    Patrick, IMO you explained it poorly, and my memory of the incident was also faulty. My original understanding is that this was ONLY an upgrade scenario, where somebody had 7 or 8, upgraded, and got the blocked update notification. That is QUITE different than what the article you linked explains, which shows how they changed mid-stream, which is not OK.

    So ya, I'm with you. MS was shitty there. I'm OK with them saying "new processor, we only support 10 (or whatever) and up, and your upgrade means you can't still run your old OS." I'm not OK with what they did, where people were FULLY SUPPORTED and still within the support period, and are not receiving updates.
     
  22. SpecialKO

    SpecialKO Be happy

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    A $1K phone isn't completely out the question - when I switched to paying for my iPhone 6S via Apple's update program, which had 0% interest (which I believe is still the case?), and kicked my carrier-subsidized plan to the curb in exchange for a pre-pay with the same basic features, I went from paying $300+$150 AppleCare for my previous phone and $95/mo for my 2-year plan ($2730 over 2 years) to paying $912 (includes AppleCare) for my 6S and 45/mo for my plan ($1,992 over 2 years). So paying $300 more dollars for a base IPX+AppleCare still amounts to less than I was paying for years with my combined 5S, 4S, or even 3G subsidized phone plans.

    The question seems to be more, is $1K for a phone, whether we're talking an IPX or a Note 8 really worth it in a world with an iPhone 8, Galaxy S8, or a OnePlus 5 exist. All 3 of those have the same processors as their more $$ brethren. They probably have less RAM, fewer extra features, and if the color thing claim by Apple is accurate (it may be) then the IPX and Note8 have literally "the best screens" in existence, but none of the other phones are even remotely slouch-like in their performance (assuming the iPhone 8 has the typical new iPhone performance)
     
  23. drawn_inward

    drawn_inward One Of Us

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    I must not be a super-user b/c I have never cared if my phone updated the OS. I don't even know what the OS is called. The older I get the more of a luddite I am becoming I guess. What are you guys doing that makes these updates so necessary?
     
  24. Bubble181

    Bubble181 The odd one out

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    ...How do you run the latest version of the Voigt-Kampff test on an obsolete OS? Using an older version is dangerous and likely to lead you to trust....the wrong people.
     
  25. fade

    fade Insert "Yo mama" joke here Staff Member

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    The security updates are necessary. What makes your car necessary when your horse and buggy work just fine there, grandpa? :p
     
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  26. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    It's a habit I seem to have.
    As but one example...

    My guess is that the iPX was really positioned as "The 10yr Anniversary Edition" instead of it being part of the usual lineup, much like the gold Apple Watch Edition (only offered once so rich people could yell "First!" on their wrist) or the 20th Anniversary Macintosh.

    --Patrick
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  27. stienman

    stienman GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF ENERGY

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    If you're paying $50 a month for the service, and upgrade your phone every three years, even the most expensive iPhone is 1/3 the total cost of your communications device, and it still has significant value at the end of those three years.

    Whether it's worth it is an entirely different and much more subjective question, but keep in mind that you're already paying a lot for your cellular service, the phone is just a fraction of it, and if the more expensive phone helps you better utilize the cellular service, then it's probably worth a little extra.

    That said, the X is $200 more than the 8+, and for that you get:

    HDR display
    OLED display (better contrast)
    Higher resolution (458pixels/inch vs 401, over 400 more pixels horizontally)
    Bigger display (5.8" vs 5.5")
    Smaller device (1/2" smaller vertical, 1/4" smaller horizontal)
    Both rear cameras are stabilized (vs only one)
    Portrait mode/portrait lighting/animoji/face ID

    I'm torn, I'm not sure it's worth it. The additional stabilized camera would be nice, and the display looks spectacular, but the thing that might push me over the edge is that the display is larger while the phone is smaller than my current 6+. Is that worth $200? I'm not convinced, but it's an item that occupies one of my pants pockets 16 hours a day, 365 days a year, and I'm going to be holding onto it for 3 years. In hand and in a pants pocket that's not a small difference.

    The kicker is that I've never been completely happy with touch ID, and I've had to have the home button replaced on my device as well as my wife's, so I'd prefer moving away from mechanical parts that fail.

    I doubt face ID will be the end-all be-all panacea, but it's unlikely to be worse than touch ID, and I can always fall back to the pin as I have to a few times a day already.

    On top of that, when I switched to this phone, I gave up my ipad thinking that the bigger display would be good enough. It isn't, but I haven't needed to carry the ipad around, I've just lived without the additional utility it provided. Going with a slightly bigger screen won't necessarily change that much, but since I've been able to live without it, I wonder if I shouldn't simply move to the 8, and thus compare the 8 to the X, suggesting a cost differential of $300, rather than $200.

    The watch with LTE is making me rethink my digital strategy altogether as well. I've seen nothing, however, that suggests you can use the watch for apple pay without the phone, though. Sure, it can contact servers, but it doesn't have touch ID or face ID, so I'm guessing they won't allow you to go for a run with the watch, buy something during the run, then return home without the phone. Not that I've used apple pay at all yet, but I'd really like to stop carrying my cards.

    While I'm wishing, it would also be nice if my phone and watch could serve as my driver's license, eliminating the need for a wallet phone case altogether.
     
  28. Gruebeard

    Gruebeard King of Cheese

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    I thought that was the point of the title right from the get go.
     
  29. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    And that display is 2k, which is an upgrade from the 1080 on the Plus phones. The dual-stabilization and (to a lesser extent) the longer battery life are the only things really making me pause from auto-locking an 8, as well.
    Starting with the 7-series, the home button is no longer a separate mechanical part. It functions similarly to the 6s' display Force Touch, where it uses some sort of strain gauge to determine whether or not you are "pressing" the button, and then gives haptic feedback to let you know that you've pressed it. This also means there is no gap around the button for infiltration to occur.
    Since I am stepping up from a 5 (and am kinda being forced, since iOS 11 will not run on my 32-bit 5), my dilemma is the same. Do I go with an 8 or with an X? As a possible 3rd choice, do I go with a 7 or 7 Plus now that they have dropped in price?

    Incidentally, it appears the $50 price increases are due to the current flash memory shortage having more of an impact on the industry than originally projected.
    The watch has always functioned with Apple Pay, even for phones that don't have a built-in secure element (e.g., the iPhone 5), and you have never had to have the phone present or even be online during payment, only during setup. Since the watch has pulse sensors, etc. on it, it knows when it is removed from your wrist, so as long as you don't take it off after you have unlocked it, you can continue to use it for contactless payments.

    As for using it for identification purposes, I doubt that's going to happen. Apple and the various governments are already at odds about how much default access a government should have into Apple devices.

    ...

    Also on a note completely unrelated to phones, I am looking forward to the Apple TV 4k. Even though I don't have a 4k television, our current 4th gen sometimes feels like it could benefit from a little more grunt.

    --Patrick
     
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  30. stienman

    stienman GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF ENERGY

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    You're comparing the wrong axis:
    Long axis:
    X: 2436
    8+: 1920 (79% of the X)
    8: 1334 (55% of the X)

    Short axis:
    X: 1125
    8+: 1080 (96% of the X)
    8: 750 (67% of the X)

    Pixels:
    X: 2.74M
    8+: 2.07M (76% of the X)
    8: 1.00M (37% of the X)

    Now that I look at it, though, I don't think I could stand going to the smaller one. I'm surprised it's that big a difference, I hadn't actually crunched the numbers before. Fitting two of the 8 into the 8+ screen, and three of the 8 into the X screen really puts this in perspective. I don't see myself getting an 8 now, and the additional space on the X along with the other camera features might tip me over.

    Honestly I'm just glad they've stopped charging an additional $100 for each of a zillion small memory bumps. Remember when you'd pay $100 more to go from 8GB 3GS to 16GB 3GS, then another $100 to go from there to 32GB? It was ridiculous.

    Going to two models, one 64GB (which is actually pretty reasonable in terms of what you can do with it) and a $150 bump to add nearly 200GB more is expensive, but much more reasonable than they used to be.

    TIL. I have a real hard time loaning my phone to my kids, but the watch really fills a need here, because I can answer the phone, get messages, and do a lot with it even if I've given my phone to a kid. HAving to carry around a bluetooth headset is the only downside, but the times I'd be loaning my phone out I'd probably be able to make ure I have a headset with me without having to make it part of my everyday carry.

    As sexy as the earpods are (functionally - I don't care about the looks) I don't think I'd use them enough to justify the cost.

    There are companies working on it for the last several years, and they've done testing in limited areas (Maryland is one that tried it out).

    The issue of privacy is, as you guessed, at the fore. Agents (police, etc) of the government are used to being able to take the ID with them, deal with it, then return it. Users shouldn't have to let go of their phone, however, and if they do can they lock the phone so it displays the ID but doesn't allow further access, nor show alerts or otherwise divulge private information or access? No, the phone has to stay int he user's hand, which means it has to display the license and a barcode or use NFC to work with a handheld reader the agent would be using - probably their own phone.

    This is further complicated by the new federal ID requirements for flying and international travel, where a lot of different agencies would have to work together to get plastic ones that meet everyone's needs - this becomes a much bigger problem when its digital.

    As such, even though there are several companies working on it, I suspect it's going to have to come down to Apple choosing to do it, and wrangling the various agencies, or it's going to have to come from the government with a list of requirements, digital interfaces, etc so multiple companies can implement it.

    It's very non trivial. It would have been better if a state had implemented it prior to the new federal guidelines, then forced the federal government to fit into their system, but now there's way too many fingers in the pie.

    If Apple worked it out, though, can you imagine the coup? Even if designed in an open fashion it would still take samsung and google a year or more to catch up. I doubt it would work this way, though, the government would demand a system/program/bid that worked across 90% of the smart phones in the US.

    Anyway, fun to think about, but I doubt the plastic ID card is going away anytime soon. I'd be happy if I could just get rid of the credit cards, and store just my ID in the back of my phone.
     
  31. SpecialKO

    SpecialKO Be happy

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    I get that, but they're still $1000 phones that are competing on their internals, versus the gold Apple Watch edition that was, well, covered in gold.
     
  32. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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    Ah, you're right. I'm just so used to seeing "2xxx" in a dimension these days as an automatic 2k.
    You don't need a headset, the watch has a built-in mic and speaker. Always has. It's just not the best way to have a private conversation.
    Battery life for phone calls when flying solo is projected to only be about an hour, though.
    If I get one, it's going to be for the heart monitoring. Stupid suspected branching defect.
    Truthfully, it's probably going to take someone doing something similar in order to get everyone on board. Government agencies will bureaucracy it to death every time the idea is brought up, so it's probably not going to happen until someone like Apple or Samsung (someone with enough control over the installed hardware base, that is) develops some ad-hoc standard that the government is forced to acknowledge simply because so many people are using it, kinda like cryptocurrency.

    --Patrick
     
  33. Covar

    Covar It's Clobberin' Time!!!

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  34. PatrThom

    PatrThom Genuinely Curious

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  35. stienman

    stienman GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF ENERGY

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    I've never seen $5 for a tablet add on, only $10. Sounds like you've got a good plan.