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Anon goes to war.

Jan 19, 2012#1

Dave

http://rt.com/usa/news/anonymous-doj-universal-sopa-235/

So far the victims are:

FBI
Department of Justice
RIAA
MPAA
Universal Music Group
Warner Music Group

God speed you magnificent mother fuckers! Give 'em hell, boys and girls!

(Posted in General on purpose.)

Jan 19, 2012#2

ScytheRexx

It is amazing, I actually expected SOPA/PIPA to bring out the rage of Anon, but I had no idea the catalyst that would ultimately drive them to start was going to be the MegaUpload shutdown. I think they were probably already pretty hot on the trigger, and MegaUpload shutdown (regardless of it being valid or not) almost feels like a premonition to the the future of a censored web, so they pulled that trigger.

Jan 19, 2012#3

Dave

The United States arrested someone in NEW ZEALAND to appease the conglomerated entertainment industry. At the same time, a guy in Great Britain is being extradited to the US for prosecution because he has a LINK site! I don't have the skills, but if I did I'd be right there with Anon. This has gone on too long and needs to be stopped. They have my full support in this. (Addendum: They have my full support as long as they keep attacking the right people/businesses. If they veer from this targeted attacked I may no longer support them.)

Jan 19, 2012#4

Ravenpoe

Does anyone else feel like including the FBI in their targets was a terrible idea?

Jan 19, 2012#5

ThatNickGuy

No, that's definitely not a good idea. But to be honest, this is kind of what Anonymous has been building to. I figured they'd EVENTUALLY start hitting the government. Never thought it was a good idea, but I saw it as inevitable.

That said, won't this only further bring about support for SOPA or similar bills?

Jan 19, 2012#6

Dave

There's nothing stopping them NOW from trying to pass bills like that. In fact, had Wikipedia et. al. not done what they did, nobody would know about SOPA/PIPA.

The internet didn't want this war. But the morons in Washington are outnumbered and out-brained.

Jan 19, 2012#7

General Specific

Targeting any government site was probably a bad idea. Suddenly, you've just gone from cyber criminal to possible terrorist threat. That bill allowing for people to be whisked away and denied due process was just signed into law recently.

Jan 19, 2012#8

ElJuski

again, eyeroll at morons in Washington.

So a bunch of internet dweebs are going to do some damage to some websites. SOPA and all that garbage is going to go by the wayside anyway. Life goes on. News at 11.

Jan 19, 2012#9

strawman

Meh. They aren't going to change the government's opinion, and in fact they will likely be cast as "internet terrorists" and end up making the situation worse.

Jan 19, 2012#10

ElJuski

Also, for the record, just buying a goddamn DVD box set isn't all that expensive.

Jan 19, 2012#11

Ravenpoe

ElJuski said:
Also, for the record, just buying a goddamn DVD box set isn't all that expensive.

Jan 19, 2012#12

ElJuski

That is, the whole megaupload thing going down is partly because people just HAVE to illegally download tv shows, movies, and music.

I'm not excluding myself from these things, but at the same time, I also have the balls to say, "well, you got me, there."

Jan 19, 2012#13

Dave

There are several troubling aspects to this, however.

First, Megaupload does not control what the people put on their site. Like other sites, if someone posts something and it gets reported, they take it down. Arresting the people in charge of it in New Zealand is far and above the reach of the US government as well as showing the powers of those with the cash buying our legal system. The owners of the site will be getting more fines and jail time than a rapist or murderer if convicted.

Second, it has already been proven that the release of media with accessible price points can and will generate money for content that is worth buying. Look at such things as iTunes and the Indie Bundles, not to mention Louis CK's overwhelmingly successful experiment. But the industry doesn't learn and employs ever increasingly draconian practices to attempt to control everything you read, see and consume media-wise. And all of this heavy-handedness does not work! It doesn't stop piracy even a little. The only thing it does is to inconvenience those who attempt to purchase stuff legally and use what they bought. Take the upcoming Diablo III release. Yes, most people have an always online connection, but if you are running it on a laptop you may be unable to play the very game you purchased because the DRM and "piracy" prevention put in place by dipshit studios. What will the pirates do? Release a nodisk crack within the first week. So who does this hurt? The consumer.

Jan 19, 2012#14

redthirtyone

But is what they're doing really all that technically advanced? Most of what I recall them doing has been DDoS, which basically seems to be brute forcing a site into submission. I would say most of these corporate/gov't sites aren't ready to handle the large load that an Anonymous attack can send at them. A few months back they tried the same on Amazon over the WikiLeaks thing, but had to give up.

I'll agree though, moral of the story is "don't piss 'em off"

Jan 19, 2012#15

Covar

And with that any good that came about from yesterday is gone. Good job anon.

Jan 19, 2012#16

Shegokigo

All the good that came about from yesterday? Like the shutting down of MegaUpload in retaliation from SOPA being made the laughing stock that it was?

Where was the good? How many people ran business from MegaUpload, thousands lost all they had in an instant, no warning, no time to backup, deletion?

Also for those saying that Anon is dumb for attacking government sites, I find it naive to think they don't already have members in those places as it is.

Also Juski: Just buy the dvd box? How about we just go back to watching TV (with 6 commercials every 3 minutes) or pay for preimum access to Hulu and still have commercials? How about go back to Netflix, where the CEO has no clue what he's doing at the best movies are considered Hollywoods "forgotten" or already "played 1000x by HBO"?

Jan 19, 2012#17

ThatNickGuy

Sheg's right, as far as TV shows go. The reason I "legally obtain" TV shows now is because I don't see it as any different than having a friend tape it for me back in the day.

Jan 19, 2012#18

Hailey Knight

I just don't watch TV.

'Cause it sucks.

Jan 19, 2012#19

Jay

ThatNickGuy said:
Sheg's right, as far as TV shows go. The reason I "legally obtain" TV shows now is because I don't see it as any different than having a friend tape it for me back in the day.

Or PVR it.

I PVR everything.

I watch Castle 20 minutes late... why? Play catchup while time is being wasted on commercial breaks.

Jan 20, 2012#20

doomdragon6

I used MegaUpload for not-TV things.

I found it very inconvenient.

Jan 20, 2012#21

Frankie Williamson

At least this time it probably won't get someone killed by a murderous cartel.

Jan 20, 2012#22

ElJuski

You guys also seem to forget that watching television shows with advertising, or buying the dvd boxes, etc, helps pay for everyone that works on those shows. I mean, look, I'm with you guys, because I download a ton of free music, but it doesn't mean that it's not in some way, shape, or form wrong.

And furthermore, I feel like if people would just step off and not continue to be openly illegally downloading shit all the time, a more legitimate fight against the government cracking down unnecessarily on people could continue. Meanwhile, more people like Louis CK should implement their own niche markets--although, and here's the thing, I think Louis CK is also a very, very niche success story, considering the only reason he could even pull that off as financially profitable as he did was the twenty-odd years of being a poor, broke workhorse.

Jan 20, 2012#23

Espy

At first I was kind of like... wow, big balls there... but then I realized, oh, they made it so I couldn't get to the Justice Department Website or RIAA.com for awhile. You know, websites that we all hang out on so much. So now I'm trying to figure out why this is a big deal. The sites are back up and.... whats changed?

Jan 20, 2012#24

ScytheRexx

Espy said:
At first I was kind of like... wow, big balls there... but then I realized, oh, they made it so I couldn't get to the Justice Department Website or RIAA.com for awhile. You know, websites that we all hang out on so much. So now I'm trying to figure out why this is a big deal. The sites are back up and.... whats changed?

Nothing changed, sometimes protests don't bring change, but they can bring awareness. The Anon events are like someone painting the sign in front of their building with the words "Fucktards", it's juvenile, not many people outside of those that work there will see it, but it brings the message they wanted. Really, in the end, that is all they CAN do, at least right now. I do worry how far they will take it though should things get worst with regards to the future of the internet.

Jan 20, 2012#25

bhamv3

How long until the MPAA, the RIAA etc tar Anonymous and the blackout sites with the same brush?

"Wikipedia isn't content to just twist facts and abuse its power, now it's actively hacking the Department of Justice!"

Jan 20, 2012#26

Dave

Anon, you dorks! They published names & address of Dodd...and his family, including the kids. This is the part I'm not a fan of. Attacking the government or industry sites for horrible actions is one thing, but personal attacking of families is quite another. Bad form!

Jan 20, 2012#27

Covar

Dave said:
Anon, you dorks! They published names & address of Dodd...and his family, including the kids. This is the part I'm not a fan of. Attacking the government or industry sites for horrible actions is one thing, but personal attacking of families is quite another. Bad form!

Are you really surprised though?

Jan 20, 2012#28

Dave

Covar said:
Are you really surprised though?

I'd like to say no, but with that many individuals of varying abilities and ages/maturity levels it was bound to go overboard. And that's really the only issue I have with the concept of Anonymous as an entity for change or protest - it only takes one or two in the wrong place to make the whole bunch seem like raving mad loons.

Jan 20, 2012#29

GasBandit

Attacking government websites is meaningless and fruitless. Hell, when my company's website goes down, our response is "oh well, it'll be back up later."

Because the government doesn't need a website to function. In fact, for most people involved in it, the various governmental websites are basically just so much fluff and PR.

If they want to affect any kind of real change, they have to do the dangerous, scary shit that makes Dave uncomfortable. Names, addresses, breaking in to actual critical systems that house actual secret data.

This is just ... e-graffiti.

Jan 20, 2012#30

HowDroll

Most people are too complacent to initiate protests for change on their own, but I'm always glad to see people fighting back against the powers that be -- and I don't think it necessarily matters whether the protesters are Tea Partiers, Occupiers, Anonymous, or whatever. People in this country have been sitting by for far too long, and even CNN is covering the Anonymous DDoS attacks; it may be a drop in the bucket, but you know, if you get enough drops, sooner or later you're going to have a bucket full of water.

Jan 20, 2012#31

Dave

DROLL!!!!

Jan 20, 2012#32

bhamv3

DROOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jan 20, 2012#33

HowDroll

Man, where the hell have you guys been? I've been bopping around in a few different threads this week

Jan 20, 2012#34

Dave

This is the first I seen ya. But I've been out of touch for a while due to work, moving and a few other things.

Good to see you're still doing well, though!

Jan 20, 2012#35

Espy

Don't get me wrong, I love that people want to fight back against government thuggery, I just figured a group with the skills of Anon could do... something meaningful rather than just crash a few websites. It's good that it got some awareness out I suppose, so thats something.

Jan 20, 2012#36

HowDroll

I missed you guys

I've been feeling like I need a sanity check at work this week, and I forgot how much I like hanging around here.

Jan 20, 2012#37

Allen who is Quiet

HowDroll said:
I missed you guys I've been feeling like I need a sanity check at work this week, and I forgot how much I like hanging around here.

In that case, have a link to a thing: http://bennyhillifier.com/?id=zEhtsgu6bJg

Jan 20, 2012#38

HowDroll

Allen who is Quiet said:
In that case, have a link to a thing: http://bennyhillifier.com/?id=zEhtsgu6bJg

If I get fired, I'm hunting you down.

Jan 20, 2012#39

Allen who is Quiet

Jan 20, 2012#40

Jay

Jan 20, 2012#41

HowDroll

Allen who is Quiet said:
View attachment 4075

I didn't even see what the video was. I saw a naked chick and "Contains Spoilers and Scenes of a Violent Nature" and closed the hell out of the window :aaah:

Jan 20, 2012#42

Allen who is Quiet

Oh shit, so there is a naked chick. My bad. ._.

It's just a montage of scenes containing Sean Bean dying set to Yakety Sax. Did not think that one through.

Jan 20, 2012#43

HowDroll

Allen who is Quiet said:
Oh shit, so there is a naked chick. My bad. ._.

It's just a montage of scenes containing Sean Bean dying set to Yakety Sax. Did not think that one through.

The nice thing about working in a University with 20,000 staff members is that nobody pays much attention to what I do online

No biggie. If I do have to hunt you down, I promise to kill you swiftly and painlessly.

Jan 20, 2012#44

Allen who is Quiet

How about you don't kill me and we'll just say that you did?

Jan 20, 2012#45

HowDroll

Sure... yes... that sounds like a great plan. If anyone asks, I didn't kill him.

Jan 20, 2012#46

North_Ranger

I hope you don't mind what happens next, Droll. I am, however, contractually obligated to do this.

*BIG, WARM, BURLY HUG*

We missed ya

Jan 20, 2012#47

HowDroll

I can give hugs with a click of the button now?! Dave, you're sure catering to us lazy mofos with the new forum software. Love it

Jan 20, 2012#48

Jay

HowDroll said:
I can give hugs with a click of the button now?! Dave, you're sure catering to us lazy mofos with the new forum software. Love it

Jan 20, 2012#49

Kovac

I think what bothers me most about all of this is how easily the FBI is able to manipulate our Government and law enforcement into working for your media institutions. I would be surprised if New Zealand had such an easy time getting a group of people extradited from the United States.

Do these people even have citizenship in the United States?
Kim Schmitz appears to be from Germany

Jan 20, 2012#50

ScytheRexx

Jan 20, 2012#51

Dave

Kovac said:
Kim Schmitz appears to be from Germany

Kim has dual citizenship with Germany and New Zealand.

Jan 20, 2012#52

doomdragon6

I for one want to say I enjoyed Jay's post and will refrain from hitting on HowDroll.

Jan 20, 2012#53

HowDroll

doomdragon6 said:
I for one want to say I enjoyed Jay's post and will refrain from hitting on HowDroll.

Am I allowed to hit on you? :unibrow:

Jan 20, 2012#54

Azurephoenix

This thread has substantially improved since I last checked...

Jan 20, 2012#55

ThatNickGuy

Azurephoenix said:
This thread has substantially improved since I last checked...

It's like a breath of fresh air, isn't it?
Added at: 16:12

ThatNickGuy said:
It's like a breath of fresh air, isn't it?

SIMILIES!?

Jan 20, 2012#56

Charlie Don't Surf

This is probably going to go as well as their war with the Mexican drug cartel.

Also, I'm not gonna shed any tears for a place that paid people to keep uploading pirated shit and made money off of it.

Jan 20, 2012#57

Mathias

Dave said:
There are several troubling aspects to this, however.

First, Megaupload does not control what the people put on their site. Like other sites, if someone posts something and it gets reported, they take it down. Arresting the people in charge of it in New Zealand is far and above the reach of the US government as well as showing the powers of those with the cash buying our legal system. The owners of the site will be getting more fines and jail time than a rapist or murderer if convicted.

Second, it has already been proven that the release of media with accessible price points can and will generate money for content that is worth buying. Look at such things as iTunes and the Indie Bundles, not to mention Louis CK's overwhelmingly successful experiment. But the industry doesn't learn and employs ever increasingly draconian practices to attempt to control everything you read, see and consume media-wise. And all of this heavy-handedness does not work! It doesn't stop piracy even a little. The only thing it does is to inconvenience those who attempt to purchase stuff legally and use what they bought. Take the upcoming Diablo III release. Yes, most people have an always online connection, but if you are running it on a laptop you may be unable to play the very game you purchased because the DRM and "piracy" prevention put in place by dipshit studios. What will the pirates do? Release a nodisk crack within the first week. So who does this hurt? The consumer.

You do know that Kim Dotcom isn't exactly Mr. Squeaky clean either right? I believe they're busting him for shit like racketeering, money laundering, and fraud. I'm pretty sure shutting down Megaupload is part of an agenda, but the dude isn't exactly a model citizen. At the same time though, I'm right up there with you, the United States really has no right to prosecute him.

Jan 21, 2012#58

North_Ranger

Dave said:
Kim has dual citizenship with Germany and New Zealand.

Actually, his dual citizenship is of Germany and Finland, on account that his mother is Finnish. Aaaand according to the leading newspapers here, he has family in Turku.

Gentlemen, things just got personal.

Jan 21, 2012#59

CrimsonSoul

Azurephoenix said:
This thread has substantially improved since I last checked...

(Also, Dave, you need to add that as a smilie)

Jan 21, 2012#60

Mathias

North_Ranger said:
Actually, his dual citizenship is of Germany and Finland, on account that his mother is Finnish. Aaaand according to the leading newspapers here, he has family in Turku.

Gentlemen, things just got personal.

I'm a little confused by this picture. Is a one handed, one legged dwarf with nipple rings and parrot poop on his shoulder supposed to be intimidating?

Jan 21, 2012#61

strawman

The fact that he got so close to the fire that his facial hair is smouldering suggests he has poor eyesight as well.

Jan 21, 2012#62

North_Ranger

Mathias said:
I'm a little confused by this picture. Is a one handed, one legged dwarf with nipple rings and parrot poop on his shoulder supposed to be intimidating?

It's supposed to be about this new-fangled thing... something you might have heard about, even? "Humor", I think it's called. Google it, I'm sure you'll find it.

Jan 21, 2012#63

ElJuski

nerdddd jokees

Jan 21, 2012#64

ThatNickGuy

ElJuski said:
nerdddd jokees

Jan 21, 2012#65

Mathias

North_Ranger said:
It's supposed to be about this new-fangled thing... something you might have heard about, even? "Humor", I think it's called. Google it, I'm sure you'll find it.

There's nothing funny about dwarfism.

Jan 21, 2012#66

North_Ranger

Mathias said:
There's nothing funny about dwarfism.

And I wasn't making fun of dwarves. And when I say "dwarves", I mean the imaginary fantasy race characterized by massive facial hair, use of heavy armor, a penchant for genocidal warfare against orcs and alcoholism. Not real people like Herve Villechaize, or the guys who play Mini-Me and Tyrion Lannister. And who, I might add, I was also not referencing.

Also, please accept this complimentary lesson in "humor", courtesy of Finnish comedian Pertti "Spede" Pasanen, 1984:

Jan 21, 2012#67

Mathias

North_Ranger said:
And I wasn't making fun of dwarves. And when I say "dwarves", I mean the imaginary fantasy race characterized by massive facial hair, use of heavy armor, a penchant for genocidal warfare against orcs and alcoholism. Not real people like Herve Villechaize, or the guys who play Mini-Me and Tyrion Lannister. And who, I might add, I was also not referencing.

Also, please accept this complimentary lesson in "humor", courtesy of Finnish comedian Pertti "Spede" Pasanen, 1984:

Holy fucking shit dude... Look up "dry humor" or "deadpan" or "wry humor" in the fucking dictionary.

Just do that anytime you see me post, and you'll save yourself some high blood pressure.

Jan 21, 2012#68

North_Ranger

Calm down, ol' chum. I was just poking fun at you.

So pots, kettles and calling black, I think?

I just didn't know Finnish comedy series from the '80s could cause high blood pressure...

Jan 21, 2012#69

ThatNickGuy

No no no. You're doing it all wrong.

You're supposed to get into a long, arduous argument with him that gets progressively more petty. Then, when things start getting personal and hurtful, you make a truce and go back and replace all your posts with REMOVED.

And then you duel with pistols at high noon.

Jan 21, 2012#70

North_Ranger

ThatNickGuy said:
No no no. You're doing it all wrong.

You're supposed to get into a long, arduous argument with him that gets progressively more petty. Then, when things start getting personal and hurtful, you make a truce and go back and replace all your posts with REMOVED.

And then you duel with pistols at high noon.

Well, you know I would but I'm going bowling tomorrow. That kinda clashes with the whole duel at high noon thingy. But, to appease the masses (i.e. Nick)...

Ahem...

Your mother.

That is all.

Jan 21, 2012#71

ThatNickGuy

Yesssss. Give in to your anger.

Jan 21, 2012#72

North_Ranger

Yeah... But whose is the hand that's stuck up your rectum, MUPPET?

Jan 21, 2012#73

ThatNickGuy

*sob* I'm a very manly Muppet!

Jan 21, 2012#74

ElJuski

dealing with important stuff here

Jan 21, 2012#75

North_Ranger

ThatNickGuy said:
*sob* I'm a very manly Muppet!

There there now... all is forgiven.

Jan 21, 2012#76

HowDroll

Mathias said:
There's nothing funny about dwarfism.

I guess someone's short.

Jan 21, 2012#77

Ravenpoe

HowDroll said:
I guess someone's short.

It's not about the height! It's how you use it.

Jan 21, 2012#78

Mathias

HowDroll said:
I guess someone's short.

I'm 6'1"

But if I were something like 5'1" it would be an ideal height as well.

Jan 21, 2012#79

CrimsonSoul

HowDroll said:
I guess someone's short.

how very droll of you

Jan 22, 2012#80

Bowielee

Weird in the quote, HowDroll's avatar is spike and buffy but on the post itself, it's her.

Jan 22, 2012#81

Ravenpoe

Bowielee said:
Weird in the quote, HowDroll's avatar is spike and buffy but on the post itself, it's her.

I thought it was just a weird error on my end, like I was caching her old avatar.

Jan 22, 2012#82

Dave

Apparently the addon likes to choose one and stick with it. It's not really supposed to work that way.

Jan 23, 2012#83

Charlie Don't Surf

Did Anon take down the US government for busting people for committing fraud and copyright infringement on US soil yet

Jan 23, 2012#84

ThatNickGuy

Dave said:
Apparently the addon likes to choose one and stick with it. It's not really supposed to work that way.

Could be gremlins. Did you feed anything after midnight recently, Dave?

Jan 23, 2012#85

SeraRelm

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Did Anon take down the US government for busting people for committing fraud and copyright infringement in New Zealand yet

ftfy

Jan 23, 2012#86

HowDroll

Bowielee said:
Weird in the quote, HowDroll's avatar is spike and buffy but on the post itself, it's her.

Threesome!

Jan 23, 2012#87

Shegokigo

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Did Anon take down the US government for busting people for committing fraud and copyright infringement on US soil yet

Did Rosa Parks fix the entire black inequality movement for refusing to move from the back of the bus yet?

Learn the meaning of protest before commenting on what you don't understand.

Figuring your attempt at looking so Hipster, you'd have known the meaning of it by now.

Jan 23, 2012#88

PatrThom

stienman said:
The fact that he got so close to the fire that his facial hair is smouldering suggests he has poor eyesight as well.

It's a pirate thing. Some folks like to put pieces of lit fuse in their beards, makes 'em look more intimidating.

Also, this is making the rounds.

--Patrick

Jan 23, 2012#89

Charlie Don't Surf

There were servers seized in the US, and US copyrights are the ones that were violated. These guys were US criminals and broke US law.

Jan 23, 2012#90

KCWM

This thread amuses me. Interestingly enough, I agree with Droll's post about a drop in the bucket but drops add up over time. I wasn't put out by the "outages" and didn't really keep up with it myself.

Jan 23, 2012#91

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
There were servers seized in the US, and US copyrights are the ones that were violated. These guys were US criminals and broke US law.

... and so we went to new zealand and arrested them.

Jan 23, 2012#92

Jax

The ~~Batman~~ US Government has no jurisdiction.

Jan 23, 2012#93

SeraRelm

I think he's trying to ignore that part, GB.

Jan 23, 2012#94

Officer_Charon

Not too up on my Federal Law Enforcement, but I believe as long as New Zealand will extradite to the US, then the FBI can cooperate with local LEOs to arrest the individual.

And, over 9000 hours of research on teh interwebs later, I have learned that as of December 8th 1970, New Zealand will extradite to the US. QED

Jan 23, 2012#95

Charlie Don't Surf

Are you guys really positing that the US shouldn't be able to arrest people that commit crimes in the US but go to another country?

Jan 23, 2012#96

ElJuski

No, they're just cranky that some website based primarily in peddling stolen wares got shut down.

Jan 23, 2012#97

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Are you guys really positing that the US shouldn't be able to arrest people that commit crimes in the US but go to another country?

We were not aware of the extradition status of New Zealand. Given that certain other "allied" nations seem to refuse to extradite convicted rapists semi-regularly, it didn't seem like too much of a stretch.

If they went through normal channels and cooperated with the NZ government, then my primary concern is allayed.

And frankly, only sucker noobs used Megaupload for piracy. That's just begging for a virus, and a huge waste of time.

ElJuski said:
No, they're just cranky that some website based primarily in peddling stolen wares got shut down.

Christ, what's been with you these last few weeks? It's like Charlie's bad attitude fisted you so hard it continues to use you for a sockpuppet.

Jan 23, 2012#98

SeraRelm

Also, they didn't

Charlie Don't Surf said:
commit crimes in the US but go to another country?

They were in New Zealand the whole time.

Jan 23, 2012#99

ThatNickGuy

Charlie seems to be having a case of The Call is Coming From Inside the House: National Edition.

Jan 23, 2012#100

ElJuski

GasBandit said:
Christ, what's been with you these last few weeks? It's like Charlie's bad attitude fisted you so hard it continues to use you for a sockpuppet.

Maybe it's my relocation to a pretty liberal city, or possibly it's my new calling as a teacher for emotionally, behaviorally and learning disabled urban youth, or quite possibly, the older I get, the more I eye roll at the intense amounts of bullshit that get passed off as internet tomfoolery and debate.

Also, if Charlie's not using my ass to make a sock puppet, I'm definitely still a bro'd out hipster. One of the three.

Jan 23, 2012#101

Charlie Don't Surf

I don't want to dig through the indictment, but I seem to recall they had servers and shit in- yeah from this story:

Those indicted are citizens of New Zealand, Germany, Slovakia and the Netherlands. No U.S. citizens were named. However, Megaupload has servers in Ashburn, Virginia, and Washington, which prompted the Virginia-based investigation.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/20/business/megaupload-shutdown/index.html

Jan 23, 2012#102

Shegokigo

Just out of curiosity Charlie/Juski, do you think it was ok that they hurt and destroyed alot of small businesses and alot of teachers who used MegaUpload to host their personal files for both work and personal use by instantly deleting their entire archive without giving them time to save their work?

Jan 23, 2012#103

Jay

I'll be honest, if you're hosting your shit online without an external HD in this day and age, you deserve every hardship and more.

Jan 23, 2012#104

ElJuski

Lol, that's like saying if I find it okay if arresting a bunch of drug dealers hurt my neighborhood's economy. There are plenty of legal alternatives for said process, if any teachers even fucking do that, anyway.
Added at: 00:45
"oh no megaupload is ruined, I guess you kids won't graduate this year"

Jan 23, 2012#105

Shegokigo

Jay said:
I'll be honest, if you're hosting your shit online without an external HD in this day and age, you deserve every hardship and more.

Totally.

ElJuski said:
Lol, that's like saying if I find it okay if arresting a bunch of drug dealers hurt my neighborhood's economy.

You need to work on your metaphors. Srsly.

Jan 23, 2012#106

ElJuski

Regardless, the "but what about teh teachers?!" bit was laaaaaaaame. I would definitely like to see a demographic of megaupload users, for curiosity, though. Bet you its mostly pirates and kids uploading their animes.

Jan 23, 2012#107

Frankie Williamson

Look, you leave a bunch of laundry at a laundromat that gets raided by the police the next day for being a money laundering front for some gang, you're probably not getting your clothes back. It happens, well, not all the time, but it happens.

Jan 23, 2012#108

Charlie Don't Surf

You should be mad at MegaUpload for duping people into using their illegal movie delivery service as a legitimate business.

Jan 23, 2012#109

Shegokigo

We should shut down entire banks if they find customer's were laundering money.

Not you know, fining the bank and allowing the rest of it's legit customer's keep their money too.

That's how you metaphor.

Jan 23, 2012#110

Frankie Williamson

I see nothing wrong with the one I used and it definitely seems more applicable to the situation than the one you did.

Jan 23, 2012#111

Charlie Don't Surf

Shego - the COMPANY was perpetuating copyright theft. Not just a couple people that happened to use the site. They were paying people that put up seasons of TV, movies, etc to drive up traffic and encourage people buy the fast download things. When they got "take down this shit" letters, they deleted the link, kept the file, and sent out new links so people would keep using their service to steal shit.

Jan 23, 2012#112

Hailey Knight

ElJuski said:
Regardless, the "but what about the teachers?!" bit was laaaaaaaame. I would definitely like to see a demographic of megaupload users, for curiosity, though. Bet you its mostly pirates and kids uploading their animes.

Or their D&D session recordings.

Added at: 20:35
Sometimes I wish I could just double-post. Someone else post so I can have a separate post.

Jan 23, 2012#113

ThatNickGuy

Someone else: posted!

Jan 23, 2012#114

Hailey Knight

Thanks, Nick. BREAKING NEWS!

Not sure if this is real or not, but apparently Anon's prepping to take down Facebook on Saturday (featured video from Youtube):

Jan 23, 2012#115

Jay

We'll make new ones!

Jan 23, 2012#116

Krisken

Oh no! Er, ok. They'll be disrupting all those "repost this or you don't care" posts I so enjoy.

Jan 23, 2012#117

ElJuski

oh noo my farmville

Jan 23, 2012#118

Espy

Suddenly everyone went outside and was burned to death by the giant yellow thing in the sky.

Jan 23, 2012#119

Krisken

Espy said:
Suddenly everyone went outside and was burned to death by the giant yellow thing in the sky.

The death ray. I hear ya.

Jan 24, 2012#120

Covar

Guys after MegaUpload what's next? A legit site like Pirate Bay? They totally have Linux distros on there and shit.

Jan 24, 2012#121

Mathias

Covar said:
Guys after MegaUpload what's next? A legit site like Pirate Bay? They totally have Linux distros on there and shit.

Thing is the owner of Megaupload was a scumbag, which made it far easier to make up excuses for shutting down his company. Places like Pirate Bay have been at it in court for years..
Added at: 07:52

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Shego - the COMPANY was perpetuating copyright theft. Not just a couple people that happened to use the site. They were paying people that put up seasons of TV, movies, etc to drive up traffic and encourage people buy the fast download things. When they got "take down this shit" letters, they deleted the link, kept the file, and sent out new links so people would keep using their service to steal shit.

I honestly can't believe people are defending Kim DotCom and his company practices. The dude is the definition of a dotcom boom sleezeball.

Jan 24, 2012#122

strawman

Covar said:
Guys after MegaUpload what's next? A legit site like Pirate Bay? They totally have Linux distros on there and shit.

Megaupload does not believe they are fighting for human rights to share, and fighting against copyright. They were in it for cash only, and nothing else.

The previous owners of the pirate bay (and to some degree the new owners) actually work in many other ways (politically, activist, etc) to fight copyright monopoly and what they see as excessive abuse of copyright.

So while their actions on the outside may appear similar, their intentions and actions politically and socially are quite different.

Jan 24, 2012#123

ScytheRexx

Frankie Williamson said:
Look, you leave a bunch of laundry at a laundromat that gets raided by the police the next day for being a money laundering front for some gang, you're probably not getting your clothes back. It happens, well, not all the time, but it happens.

The police can't just take my stuff and never give it back to me if I had nothing to do in the scheme, that is just asking for legal trouble. Once the investigation is over they have to give me back my stuff out of holding. That is even assuming they could take my stuff as "evidence" in the first place, considering my laundry being there has nothing to do with the fact they were laundering money in the back rooms. That would be like someone taking my coffee table out of a storage container because the guy who owned the container was caught selling drugs, they don't have anything to do with eachother and my coffee table can't be applied as evidence.

The biggest issue is a lot of people are using sites like MegaUpload as "Cloud" services, which are becoming popular as "digital banks", basically uploading data to storage and not using second external storage because the people assume they can just download the files later. I am sorry, but when people are promoting using more and more external services to bank digital content, you can't say they "deserve" it when the decide to use those services as intended. If my storage unit mentioned earlier was blown up by a bomb, would I be deserving of losing all my stuff because I didn't buy duplicated to put in my attic? Why have such storage services in the first place if they can't be used to store stuff reliably?

Jan 24, 2012#124

Frankie Williamson

I never said anyone deserved it, I said that this happens. Just like stuff getting carted off as evidence often never gets back into it's rightful owners hands. I've seen it happen. It sucks.

Jan 24, 2012#125

ScytheRexx

Frankie Williamson said:
I never said anyone deserved it, I said that this happens. Just like stuff getting carted off as evidence often never gets back into it's rightful owners hands. I've seen it happen. It sucks.

Pretty sure this can't happen, if the item itself is not of an illegal nature, then it must be given back to the owner when he claims it. The only time this can't happen is if the items were destroyed in the process of gathering, like if a bomb goes off in the laundromat. I have a lot of family that, let's just say, are not the best people in the world, and other then drugs, they always ended up getting most of their crap back from the police during investigations. Maybe OC can throw some more light on the legal nature of evidence collection and retrieval.

As for my comment about them "deserving" it, that was more a comment towards what Jay said earlier, I just let you get hit by the crossfire. I apologize.

Jan 24, 2012#126

Charlie Don't Surf

Again, you should be mad at Megaupload for being shady. Not the feds for rightfully arresting them and seizing everything for all the various laws they broke.

Jan 24, 2012#127

ScytheRexx

I am mad at both. Megaupload for being shady and illegal, and the feds for not approaching the issue from a better angle when it comes to providing those that have content there a way to regain it.

If the heads of, say, CitiBank were found to be fraudulant, laundering money and racketeering, they wouldn't shut down the whole bank and destroy everyones credit cards or bank accounts. They have ways to make sure the valid, legal users of these services have a method to retain what they put in before the company becomes shuttered. They decided with Megaupload to not protect the valid users, and yes, there were valid users on the website, as much as people want to argue what the majority was using it for.

This is not an issue where one has to be mad at one or the other, you can be mad at both. I am just thankful I use Mediafire for the last few years rather then Megaupload, or I would have been a lot more angry then I am.

Jan 24, 2012#128

Shegokigo

Again, the feds shouldn't punish the innocent for the actions of the shady.

Jan 24, 2012#129

Charlie Don't Surf

Shegokigo said:
Again, the feds shouldn't punish the innocent for the actions of the shady.

I am all fuck the police, but there is no way to instantly go through and see which files are legit and which are Twilight cams.

Jan 24, 2012#130

Shegokigo

And that's the fault of the innocents how?

Weren't you all gung-ho in the other thread about how the bill to hold people without any proof of guilt indefintely was horribly wrong?

Jan 24, 2012#131

makare

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I am all fuck the police, but there is no way to instantly go through and see which files are legit and which are Twilight cams.

I don't know what a Twilight cam is does it involve sparkles?

Jan 24, 2012#132

ScytheRexx

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I am all fuck the police, but there is no way to instantly go through and see which files are legit and which are Twilight cams.

They don't need to. They can get one of the honest webmasters (there were more running the site then the ones arrested in New Zealand) to alter the system to allow people to download from their own accounts, while disabling the sharing.

Yes, it would have allowed pirates to collect data they put up for pirating, but those pirates probably still have all that data anyways since they would also be seeding it over torrents on places like The Pirate Bay.

After a month of allowing this to happen with notice, then the website can be completely shuttered. The fact they didn't even bother is what annoys me, just shut it down, delete files, and screw those that want to get what they legally put up.

Jan 24, 2012#133

Charlie Don't Surf

Shegokigo said:
And that's the fault of the innocents how?

Weren't you all gung-ho in the other thread about how the bill to hold people without any proof of guilt indefintely was horribly wrong?

What does indefinite imprisonment without a trial have to do with seizing servers used in illegal activity after getting an okay from a judge?

Jan 24, 2012#134

strawman

Caveat emptor.

Further, if people claim their bits are property that must be returned, then wouldn't that also apply to IP, such as music and videos? That could make things very interesting if copyright infringement was suddenly considered property theft.

But back to my original statement - if you put critical data on someone else's property, it might be damaged, lost, or stolen when someone or something damages, loses, or steals that person's property. It usually takes one incident of data loss for people to start thinking about backup management. Smart people start thinking about it long before their service of choice goes down.

Further, the gov't doesn't have any obligation or interest in returning those bytes - even if they could afford to do so. It would cost tens of thousands of dollars to bring in IT specialists to get it up and running with a new gov't controlled crew, and that doesn't count the time and effort (not to mention plea bargains) required to get the passwords, keys, and other critical info from the owners, nevermind removing all copyright violating material (which is impossible) before bringing it back up.

Sorry, but the world doesn't work that way, and while you complain about it, you should put just as much effort into protecting your data through multiple layers of secure backup.

Jan 24, 2012#135

ScytheRexx

stienman said:
Caveat emptor.

That applies to commerce or purchasing, not data backup. In most cases these people who uploaded data never actually bought anything. You could argue that since they were not paying they have no protections at all, but frankly, I find that to be yet another ridiculous argument versus people losing data.

Sorry, but the world doesn't work that way, and while you complain about it, you should put just as much effort into protecting your data through multiple layers of secure backup.

I do, I have three levels of protection in my house. I am not complaining for me, I am complaining for the people that now lost data they will never be able to recover. I started using heavier layers of backup after Windows Vista decided to invalidate one of my drives and destroy my data during an upgrade years ago, I know how much it stings to lose data you may never recover, more so when it's my own creative works. I have every right to want them to have a fair method of regaining that data, rather then just raise my hands and go "pft, too bad". That selfish attitude gets people nowhere.

P.S. The fact is that this was not due to some defect or other issue in which the product was defective, this was the government shutting down a site and telling people "too bad, you can't have your stuff".

Jan 24, 2012#136

SeraRelm

I have some back ups of a few things, but everything is subject to entropy. I'm usually annoyed if something is lost, but I don't get overly riled.

Jan 24, 2012#137

GasBandit

I don't trust anything "clouded." I have my hosting that I pay for, and even that I keep my own copy on backup. I never would have been comfortable hosting anything critical on a site like megaupload, or even something more reputable.

That said, I'm getting an ulcer because our company has decided to switch to a web-based commercial traffic scheduling system in march. This will be the first time ever we've not had the server for all our contracts, orders, and accounting housed on-site, protected by an isolated network and redundant backups. I'm nervous as hell.

Jan 24, 2012#138

ScytheRexx

SeraRelm said:
I have some back ups of a few things, but everything is subject to entropy. I'm usually annoyed if something is lost, but I don't get overly riled.

The question is, was it "lost"? Me losing something is natural, it happens, and so does stuff simply going through deterioration. Are you telling me though if the police entered your house and took items from you, saying they have no intention of returning said items, that you wouldn't be angry? Some of us look at data as physical items, I have artwork and other things I like to make that are more valuable to me then many of the things in my house.

Yes, I am passionate about this, because I believe there is a huge difference over losing something due to defect or personal error, and losing something due to a company or government deciding I was not worth the time to support.

Jan 24, 2012#139

SeraRelm

I've lost at least two disks full of my own original music due to failed HD + eroded CDs. I know what you mean, but ultimately, it would be lost to us eventually. As for data being taken because you had it hosted online, that is loss due to "personal error" in my book, so yes, it is the same thing to me.

Jan 24, 2012#140

ScytheRexx

SeraRelm said:
I've lost at least two disks full of my own original music due to failed HD + eroded CDs. I know what you mean, but ultimately, it would be lost to us eventually. As for data being taken because you had it hosted online, that is loss due to "personal error" in my book, so yes, it is the same thing to me.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this, because I think the way we each see data to be different.

Jan 24, 2012#141

strawman

ScytheRexx said:
That applies to commerce or purchasing, not data backup. In most cases these people who uploaded data never actually bought anything. You could argue that since they were not paying they have no protections at all, but frankly, I find that to be yet another ridiculous argument versus people losing data.

Oh, I didn't realize Megaupload had a guarantee of service, or that the police are mandated by law to execute a shady business's warranty.

Jan 24, 2012#142

ScytheRexx

stienman said:
Oh, I didn't realize Megaupload had a guarantee of service, or that the police are mandated by law to execute a shady business's warranty.

All I am saying is you can't use that to argue this type of situation, much like you can't argue copyright violations as "theft". Nothing wrong with stopping shady businesses, as long as you protect the people who are affected by said business. I will never stand by the idea that should the government decide to shutter a business, that those utilizing it for legal reasons are "shit out of luck" when something they own is tied up in it. It is that passive, "this does not affect me, why should I care?" nature that bothers me the most.

Again, this is not the servers breaking down in a freak accident. This is the feds making a conscious choice to shutter service regardless of legal users, with servers and an infrastructure already there to provide said users to reclaim what they put up.

Jan 24, 2012#143

strawman

ScytheRexx said:
Again, this is not the servers breaking down in a freak accident. This is the feds making a conscious choice to shutter service regardless of legal users, with servers and an infrastructure already there to provide said users to reclaim what they put up.

How do the police do that in this case?

Imagine a storage facility the size of texas, where millions of people go in and out of the gates daily, and it stores billions of their items.

Not only do the police find out that criminals are using the facility, but those who own and operate the facility work with the criminals - paying them off, giving them special treatment, and making money by charging each person who goes through the gates to visit the criminals.

The owners are running an enterprise that not only facilitates criminal activity, but they are profiting off it, and altering their services to make it easier for the criminals. They are acting as brokers between the criminals and their clients, and skimming a bit off each "sale".

The police recognize that there are millions of legitimate users. But there is simply no way to leave the facility open without also leaving most of the criminal activity intact. They can't staff enough guards to manage millions of people trafficking in items each day.

Further, the business is so highly technical and secure that they don't even have a chance of keeping it up and running without the help of the criminals who run it. At best some user might be able to get some data, but that's not even likely if the owners don't give them information on running the place.

We could extend the dry cleaner analogy similarly - the ticket system is contained on an encrypted computer, and there are billions of clothes hung up, each with a number. Without the owner's help, there's no way for the police to get into the computer and figure out who owns what, and that doesn't even account for the fact that well over half the clothes in the cleaners were obtained fraudulently, so they have to also figure out who is a real customer, and who is criminal as people come by to pick up their stuff.

The only solution is to not prosecute them, which is I guess what you're arguing for. Or to give them advance notice. "hey, we're taking you guy down next week, please notify your customers - but not the criminals - that they need to get their stuff off now."

I think you're expectations are off base and unrealistic.

Jan 24, 2012#144

Shegokigo

Shit, I actually think Steinman convinced me....

Bravo, there's zero sarcasm in my remark, your analogy was just pristine.

At this point I'm just annoyed that I have to rely on Torrents again instead of direct downloads.

Jan 24, 2012#145

ScytheRexx

stienman said:
How do the police do that in this case?

They leave the website up for a certain amount of time after arresting the criminals, with notice saying to download any important data before a certain date, at which all items left on the servers will be purged. How is that hard? They don't even need to alter the website if it really bothered them, just have one of the honest webmasters (again, there were more then the ones arrested, and they are not going after all of them because they have no evidence they took part in the criminal side of the operation) keep it up for a bit longer.

We could extend the dry cleaner analogy similarly - the ticket system is contained on an encrypted computer, and there are billions of clothes hung up, each with a number. Without the owner's help, there's no way for the police to get into the computer and figure out who owns what, and that doesn't even account for the fact that well over half the clothes in the cleaners were obtained fraudulently, so they have to also figure out who is a real customer, and who is criminal as people come by to pick up their stuff.

The issue is you keep assuming they need to find the fraudulent files. They don't. 90% or more of the files that are likely fraudulent on Megaupload are going to be uploaded by the same people on different websites already, or through torrents. Keeping the website up for a period, with a notice (and possibly disabled sharing, which is possible) will giving people enough time to get items. Will some pirates get a few fraudulent materials in the time also? Yes, but the likelihood they have those fradulent materials in hundreds of other locations is higher then the chance one of them would need a small window to reclaim those files over a legit user.

This is the issue the government has with carrying out these types of raids. They have zero understanding of the people that take part in these things, and thus the assumption is "guilty" under all circumstances.

The only solution is to not prosecute them, which is I guess what you're arguing for. Or to give them advance notice. "hey, we're taking you guy down next week, please notify your customers - but not the criminals - that they need to get their stuff off now."

Not prosecute who? The criminals are already arrested. That has no baring on the website as a whole. The website had more webmasters then the people arrested. Do you mean persecuting the pirates who use the website? That was not going to happen anyways.

I think you're expectations are off base and unrealistic.

And I think you don't seem to understand all the angles of the process, we can all make assumptions.

Jan 24, 2012#146

SeraRelm

ScytheRexx said:
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this, because I think the way we each see data to be different.

I don't doubt it, and I'm not saying you shouldn't feel upset, I just don't feel as riled up, which is all I was trying to say.

Jan 24, 2012#147

ScytheRexx

Bravo, there's zero sarcasm in my remark, your analogy was just pristine.

To be honest, I don't think it was that good. It was close, but leaves out some of the most important facts. For instance, let's say such a place did exist. Would anyone in the system legally allow said location to be razed to the ground after such protest by those that utilized the facility correctly? Would "destruction" of items be a valid outcome for such an action? Not just detention, but destruction.

Example. If the government learned that CitiBank was actually promoting the usage of criminal empires to embezzle money and assets for criminal gain. Obviously, CitiBank has a lot of accounts, both valid and illegal. Would the right action in this be to obliterate all money owned by CitiBank, freezing all assents and not being "responsible" for the return of people's money since it would take too long to figure out the valid accounts from the false ones?

It's a slippery argument.

Jan 24, 2012#148

GasBandit

Shegokigo said:
At this point I'm just annoyed that I have to rely on Torrents again instead of direct downloads.

Torrents have never let me down. Seedboxing 4-eva.

Jan 24, 2012#149

ScytheRexx

GasBandit said:
Torrents have never let me down. Seedboxing 4-eva.

I am surprised torrents are not used more often for sharing purposes outside of piracy. They can be rather efficient, and let people work for you through seeding, rather then relying on an outside server. I think the system itself just has a bad rap.

Jan 24, 2012#150

Shegokigo

Except when you're looking for VERY old stuff.

Then it's ridiculous. That's why I liked static download libraries....

Jan 24, 2012#151

GasBandit

ScytheRexx said:
I am surprised torrents are not used more often for sharing purposes outside of piracy. They can be rather efficient, and let people work for you through seeding, rather then relying on an outside server. I think the system itself just has a bad rap.

It's been a while since I was a subscriber, but if memory serves WOW and some other MMOs actually use thinly disguised bittorrent clients to distribute patches. It definitely has legitimate uses.
Added at: 14:17

Shegokigo said:
Except when you're looking for VERY old stuff.

Then it's ridiculous. That's why I liked static download libraries....

Only once have I looked for something old that I couldn't find on demonoid. It was some old movie I don't even recall the name of now, so I guess it wasn't all that important.

Jan 24, 2012#152

ScytheRexx

GasBandit said:
It's been a while since I was a subscriber, but if memory serves WOW and some other MMOs actually use thinly disguised bittorrent clients to distribute patches. It definitely has legitimate uses.

Yes that is true. Pretty sure the system they use now with the launcher still utilizes bittorrent. I found it a rather nice method to distribute the patches.

Jan 24, 2012#153

ElJuski

Shegokigo said:
At this point I'm just annoyed that I have to rely on Torrents again instead of direct downloads.

~The Internet

Jan 24, 2012#154

GasBandit

Sheeit, boyee, I remember back in the day having to queue up in DCC sessions on IRC to download my warez. Torrents are easy peasy.
Added at: 15:59
Also:

Jan 24, 2012#155

Shegokigo

Don't ever mention Direct Connect to me..... ugh.

Jan 24, 2012#156

ScytheRexx

GasBandit said:

How can one say no to MC Double Def DP?

Jan 24, 2012#157

GasBandit

Or hell, remember when you could have any game you wanted - so long as you transcribed the code yourself?

Jan 24, 2012#158

Officer_Charon

GasBandit said:
Sheeit, boyee, I remember back in the day having to queue up in DCC sessions on IRC to download my warez. Torrents are easy peasy.

Totally nostalgia'd...

Jan 24, 2012#159

GasBandit

Officer_Charon said:
Totally nostalgia'd...

Heh, I ran an FTP site for a warez channel back in 98 on a T1 line.. remember when 1.5mbit was mindblowing?

Jan 24, 2012#160

Officer_Charon

Man, the 90's called.. they want their tech back. *laughs*

Jan 24, 2012#161

GasBandit

Officer_Charon said:
Man, the 90's called.. they want their tech back. *laughs*

"Dude. Dude. Dude.. listen... I can download that whole game. See, CLASS ripped out all the movie cutscenes and recompressed all the audio to 22khz, so now it's only like 132 megs instead of 450. On the T1, that's just... like... 20 minutes tops, assuming we find a good source. Now hang on while I overclock my Celeron 333a to 500 megahertz, and then find some new VESA drivers for my video card."

Man, those were the days.

Jan 24, 2012#162

ElJuski

yep

Jan 24, 2012#163

Officer_Charon

Gonna have to see if I can sneak DOSbox on this computer...

Jan 24, 2012#164

ElJuski

PS
http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-megaupload-raid-has-inspired-other-filesharing,68229/

Jan 24, 2012#165

Shegokigo

Hilarious.

"We totally stopped pirates! Yay!"

Jan 24, 2012#166

ElJuski

I don't know if anyone said that, did they? Their will always BE pirates, in some shape or form. Just shows that this tactic seems to be pretty effective for the time being.

Jan 24, 2012#167

Shegokigo

No but it's very obvious that's what they think they're going to achieve.

Jan 24, 2012#168

ElJuski

Shegokigo said:
No but it's very obvious that's what they think they're going to achieve.

Is it?

Jan 24, 2012#169

strawman

It's a political victory for the entertainment industry lobbyists. It doesn't stop anything, it just convinces their clients to keep paying the lobbyists.

Jan 24, 2012#170

Shegokigo

Keyword: Think

Jan 25, 2012#171

ElJuski

keywords: is it?

Jan 25, 2012#172

Shegokigo

Why else would they have done it?

Jan 25, 2012#173

Charlie Don't Surf

Arresting a bunch of murderers isn't gonna stop murder forever. But it will keep those murderers from doing it. That's how it works.

Jan 25, 2012#174

Shegokigo

So yeah, they arrested like 8 people when over 8 million were pirating.

Good job!

If you applied the murderer analogy like you did, it looks even worse.

I've noticed a really bad lack of good analogies on HF recently. It's turning into an epidemic.

Jan 25, 2012#175

GasBandit

Because it totally worked when napster was taken down.

Jan 25, 2012#176

Jay

I don't like the government doing what they did with Megaupload....when I heard of all this I felt a nameless dread.
There probably is a long German name for it, like Geschpooklichkeit or something but I don’t speak German.
Anyway, it’s a dread that nobody knows the name for...
Like those little square plastic gizmos that close your bread bags. I don’t know the name for those either.

Jan 25, 2012#177

GasBandit

Jay said:
I don't like the government doing what they did with Megaupload....when I heard of all this I felt a nameless dread.
There probably is a long German name for it, like Geschpooklichkeit or something but I don’t speak German.
Anyway, it’s a dread that nobody knows the name for...
Like those little square plastic gizmos that close your bread bags. I don’t know the name for those either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_clip

As for the german name, I suggest Entsetzen.

Jan 25, 2012#178

Frankie Williamson

I kind of dig when stuff like Napster gets shut down, forces the internet to innovate new ways to get free shit.

Jan 25, 2012#179

bhamv3

Jay said:
I don't like the government doing what they did with Megaupload....when I heard of all this I felt a nameless dread.
There probably is a long German name for it, like Geschpooklichkeit or something but I don’t speak German.
Anyway, it’s a dread that nobody knows the name for...
Like those little square plastic gizmos that close your bread bags. I don’t know the name for those either.

My word for it is "slippery slope."

Wait... d'oh, that's two words.

Jan 25, 2012#180

Bowielee

GasBandit said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_clip

As for the german name, I suggest Entsetzen.

Germans have the best names for negative things.

Positive things, not so much.

"I love you" in german roughly sounds like "I'm going to kill you slowly"

Jan 25, 2012#181

GasBandit

Bowielee said:
Germans have the best names for negative things.

Positive things, not so much.

"I love you" in german roughly sounds like "I'm going to kill you slowly"

To me, "Ich liebe dich" always sounded more like "I intend to peel your genitals."

Jan 25, 2012#182

@Li3n

Frankie Williamson said:
I kind of dig when stuff like Napster gets shut down, forces the internet to innovate new ways to get free shit.

Wasn't everyone using DC++ already when Napster got shut down?

Jan 25, 2012#183

GasBandit

@Li3n said:
Wasn't everyone using DC++ already when Napster got shut down?

I think eDonkey was next after napster.

Jan 25, 2012#184

ElJuski

The internet: so proud of screwing people over.

Jan 25, 2012#185

GasBandit

ElJuski said:
The RIAA: so proud of screwing people over.

FTFY.

Jan 25, 2012#186

Charlie Don't Surf

I get pirating in the instance where a movie isn't available in your region or whatever. Or in that gray period between theater release and Blu-Ray. But shit, with Netflix, DVRs, and iTunes, it's really easy to exchange money for shit you want to watch. Pirating TV shows isn't the same thing as taping VHS. If it was, it would be taping a VHS.

I'm not going to say I'm perfect and never pirate. But I still know it's wrong, that I'm a piece of shit for doing it, and I'm not going to get mad if steps are taken to stop it. Or parade around bragging about it.

Jan 25, 2012#187

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Pirating TV shows isn't the same thing as taping VHS. If it was, it would be taping a VHS.

Yeah, it's more like making a copy of a friend's VHS where when he recorded it he hit pause whenever the program went to commercial.

Jan 25, 2012#188

ElJuski

I think what gets me the most, though, is this faux sense of justice that most people on the internet strap on to thinly disguise that, like the rest of us, they'd rather just get some shit for free.

Jan 25, 2012#189

Charlie Don't Surf

Yeah. I really don't get it, there is nothing noble about not paying for something for which you should pay

Jan 25, 2012#190

Espy

I think my all time favorite argument is the "Well, no one is losing out since I never would have bought it anyway". The logic of that completely loses me. I mean, there are some valid and some semi-valid reasons to dl torrents, but that one just mystifies me.

Jan 25, 2012#191

figmentPez

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I get pirating in the instance where a movie isn't available in your region or whatever. Or in that gray period between theater release and Blu-Ray. But shit, with Netflix, DVRs, and iTunes, it's really easy to exchange money for shit you want to watch. Pirating TV shows isn't the same thing as taping VHS. If it was, it would be taping a VHS.

I'm not going to say I'm perfect and never pirate. But I still know it's wrong, that I'm a piece of shit for doing it, and I'm not going to get mad if steps are taken to stop it. Or parade around bragging about it.

The part of this I don't like, is that cable companies have not lived up to their promises to make the content available to consumers. They have repeatedly knee-capped cable card technologies in order to make it harder for home users to access content they paid for. They have killed off firewire ports, and continually defied both what they promised customers and what they were legally required to do by the government. They have intentionally made it as difficult as possible to record video on your own terms, without renting a DVR from them, and specifically targeted any and all forms of DIY home theater boxes, trying to make them as expensive and difficult to implement as possible.

It's that bullshit that makes me unrepentantly download TV shows I can't stream legitimately from Hulu, but that are shown on my cable subscription. That type of asshattery also makes me sympathetic to anyone who downloads those shows without paying for them in any manner.

Jan 25, 2012#192

GasBandit

ElJuski said:
I think what gets me the most, though, is this faux sense of justice that most people on the internet strap on to thinly disguise that, like the rest of us, they'd rather just get some shit for free.

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Yeah. I really don't get it, there is nothing noble about not paying for something for which you should pay

So... kinda like how conservatives saw the Occupy movement?

Jan 25, 2012#193

ElJuski

I'm not saying I supported most of the thinly-veiled bullshit of the Occupy movement, but I think the things they're going for, and downloading that last episode of The Walking Dead, are two different ballfields.

Jan 25, 2012#194

GasBandit

ElJuski said:
I'm not saying I supported most of the thinly-veiled bullshit of the Occupy movement, but I think the things they're going for, and downloading that last episode of The Walking Dead, are two different ballfields.

On a basic level, both are wanting things that they themselves aren't paying for. The difference is it's harder to pirate, say, health care because it's a tangible practice. You can't copy and paste doctors. That sort of makes it worse, though, doesn't it...

Jan 25, 2012#195

ElJuski

GasBandit said:
On a basic level, both are wanting things that they themselves aren't paying for. The difference is it's harder to pirate, say, health care because it's a tangible practice. You can't copy and paste doctors. That sort of makes it worse, though, doesn't it...

That comparison is ridiculous.

Jan 25, 2012#196

GasBandit

ElJuski said:
That comparison is ridiculous.

Hey, if you want to reduce the argument to "it's wrong to download media because you're getting something from somebody without paying for it," I can do the same for other concepts.

Jan 25, 2012#197

Charlie Don't Surf

healthcare is a right, season 3 of the sopranos is a privilege
Added at: 16:16
despite HBO's ludicrous DVD prices, buying The Wire complete series box set will not in fact put you in debt for the rest of your life and ruin your credit rating the same way as getting hit by a drunk driver will

Jan 25, 2012#198

ElJuski

GasBandit said:
Hey, if you want to reduce the argument to "it's wrong to download media because you're getting something from somebody without paying for it," I can do the same for other concepts.

You can, but it will make you sound fucking stupid, because the two concepts are so wholly different that it boggles my mind you would make yourself sound so fucking dumb typing it out.

Jan 25, 2012#199

Charlie Don't Surf

look, I don't really like the complete series of Friends, HOWEVER purchasing it is not the same as contracting cancer

Jan 25, 2012#200

ElJuski

But then again, this is Gas, so I shouldn't be surprised he values human life and curiosity over the new Weezer album at the same level.

Jan 25, 2012#201

GasBandit

ElJuski said:
You can, but it will make you sound fucking stupid, because the two concepts are so wholly different that it boggles my mind you would make yourself sound so fucking dumb typing it out.

No, they aren't. Well, yes they are, but not in the way you mean.

Jan 25, 2012#202

ElJuski

sure thing, boss

Jan 25, 2012#203

GasBandit

ElJuski said:
But then again, this is Gas, so I shouldn't be surprised he values human life and curiosity over the new Weezer album at the same level.

No way, weezer is way better than human life.

And I hate weezer.

Jan 25, 2012#204

Charlie Don't Surf

I think the more recent Weezer albums get way more shit than they deserve

Jan 25, 2012#205

Null

Being against corporation personhood, supporting bank reform (specifically, the reinstatement of the Glass-Steagall Act and repealling the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act), and tax reform for a more progressive income tax system = stealing entertainment. Good to know.

Jan 25, 2012#206

Espy

Charlie Don't Surf said:
I think the more recent Weezer albums get way more shit than they deserve

If I didn't have the Blue Album and Pinkerton (hell, even the green album to an extent) to compare them to I would probably think they were good albums.

Jan 25, 2012#207

ElJuski

Weezer used to be inspired, weird pop rock. Now they're just the lazy pop-rock guys that once were inspired.

Jan 25, 2012#208

GasBandit

Wait, wait, wait... I was wrong. I was completely wrong, I want to apologize.

I don't hate Weezer. I kinda like them. For some reason, you typed Weezer and I read "Green Day."

That is all, carry on.

Jan 25, 2012#209

Dave

Green Day is great. Gas is wrong again.

Jan 25, 2012#210

SeraRelm

No Dave. No.

Jan 25, 2012#211

Charlie Don't Surf

Green Day > Weezer, I should know, I've pirated each band's entire discography

Jan 25, 2012#212

GasBandit

No way. Green Day's just a bunch of blubbertongued empty-headed fluff of middling musical aptitude.

Jan 25, 2012#213

ElJuski

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Green Day > Weezer, I should know, I've pirated each band's entire discography

are you fucking kidding me

Jan 25, 2012#214

Charlie Don't Surf

Gas is just mad about that "Holiday" song.

Also I'm talking entire body of work vs entire body of work.

Jan 25, 2012#215

Dave

He's joking, I suspect.

But I like Green Day better than Weezer.

Jan 25, 2012#216

Shegokigo

Where do I stand if I think both bands are "meh"?

Jan 25, 2012#217

LittleSin

Green Day USED to be great.

Now they are boring as fuck.

As fuck I say!

Jan 25, 2012#218

Shegokigo

That's a bad analogy Sin, I don't find anything boring about fucking.

Or you're doing it wrong, which I hope isn't the case.

Jan 25, 2012#219

Hailey Knight

Shegokigo said:
That's a bad analogy Sin, I don't find anything boring about fucking.

You're not married.

Jan 25, 2012#220

SeraRelm

omg you said the fuck word...

Jan 25, 2012#221

Shegokigo

Yep, but it was just parroting LilSin.

Esc, I think that went without saying.

Jan 25, 2012#222

LittleSin

Shegokigo said:
That's a bad analogy Sin, I don't find anything boring about fucking.

Or you're doing it wrong, which I hope isn't the case.

Oooo...you're right.

Hm...they are more boring then Dave?

Jan 25, 2012#223

ElJuski

Pinkerton stands above the entire Green Day discography, on its own. But both are, in retrospect, pretty dispensible pieces of pop-rock.

Jan 25, 2012#224

SeraRelm

ouch...

also "than"

Jan 25, 2012#225

Charlie Don't Surf

Weezer has 2 great albums, 3 good albums, and like 4 solid albums.
Green Day has 3 great albums, 3 good albums, and a couple solid albums.

Jan 25, 2012#226

LittleSin

I was hoping no one would catch that errant "then". I saw it when I hit "Reply" and I was like "Fuck it."

Typo explanations!

Jan 25, 2012#227

Ravenpoe

This thread needs more fuck in it.

Jan 25, 2012#228

Dave

American Idiot is better in both music and scope (content) than anything Weezer has ever done. Ever.

Jan 25, 2012#229

GasBandit

Dave said:
American Idiot is better in both music and scope (content) than anything Weezer has ever done. Ever.

Could you be more of a sheep.

Jan 25, 2012#230

Dave

GasBandit said:
Could you be more of a sheep.

Could you be more of a hipster tool?

Jan 25, 2012#231

Ravenpoe

GasBandit said:
Could you be more of a sheep.

Hipster vs Old Man?

This is the battle of our time.

Watch out for Charlie coming in for a sneak attack.

Jan 25, 2012#232

Charlie Don't Surf

I'd say the same thing as Dave, but replace AI with 21st Century Breakdown

Jan 25, 2012#233

GasBandit

Dave said:
Could you be more of a hipster tool?

If I was a hipster I wouldn't have liked Weezer. How, however, are still woolen. And old.

American Idiot was by far the lowest hanging fruit of Green Day's entire mediocre career.

Jan 25, 2012#234

ElJuski

Two things.

American Idiot is overrated garbage.

People that don't like American Idiot aren't necessarily hipsters. Also, epic eyeroll to every time someone calls someone who listens to music a hipster. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it's pompous esoterica, folks.

Jan 25, 2012#235

Dave

See, now I'm not a huge fan of 21st Century Breakdown. I think they tried to recapture lightning in a bottle and came off as trying too hard. AI was about perfect in tone, content and it was so very topical to the state of the world at the time of its release, which is amazing considering how much time it takes to make an album. The whole thing was on how the government tries to rule by fear while the middle class isolates itself with media and shopping. It was a real call to people to wake up and see what was going on around them and it did so to some extent.

Weezer writes songs about sweaters.
Added at: 18:02

ElJuski said:
Two things.

American Idiot is overrated garbage.

People that don't like American Idiot aren't necessarily hipsters. Also, epic eyeroll to every time someone calls someone who listens to music a hipster. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it's pompous esoterica, folks.

But hipsters do call people sheep for liking a band they feel is too mainstream.

Jan 25, 2012#236

Charlie Don't Surf

Just admit that if Green Day released American Idiot tomorrow about the Obama presidency, it would be the greatest album since Frampton Comes Alive

Jan 25, 2012#237

ElJuski

Dave said:
See, now I'm not a huge fan of 21st Century Breakdown. I think they tried to recapture lightning in a bottle and came off as trying too hard. AI was about perfect in tone, content and it was so very topical to the state of the world at the time of its release, which is amazing considering how much time it takes to make an album. The whole thing was on how the government tries to rule by fear while the middle class isolates itself with media and shopping. It was a real call to people to wake up and see what was going on around them and it did so to some extent.

Weezer writes songs about sweaters.
Added at: 18:02

But hipsters do call people sheep for liking a band they feel is too mainstream.

Ugh, it's such rote garbage. It's sheer marketing pointed at suburban white kids who hated the President, which is ironic, you know, all considering. Green Day was fun when I was ten, and it feels like they've never updated their demographic. They've been hated by the real rock scene they germinated from and destroyed with their whitewash whiny garbage.

Dude, hipsters go beyond calling people sheep. And, to be frank, I think most hipsters have finally just figured out they're such sheep themselves.

Jan 25, 2012#238

GasBandit

Dave said:
See, now I'm not a huge fan of 21st Century Breakdown. I think they tried to recapture lightning in a bottle and came off as trying too hard. AI was about perfect in tone, content and it was so very topical to the state of the world at the time of its release, which is amazing considering how much time it takes to make an album. The whole thing was on how the government tries to rule by fear while the middle class isolates itself with media and shopping. It was a real call to people to wake up and see what was going on around them and it did so to some extent.

Weezer writes songs about sweaters.
Added at: 18:02

But hipsters do call people sheep for liking a band they feel is too mainstream.

It has nothing to do with them being mainstream. Plenty of mainstream bands are just fine. Great even. Green Day is not one of them. American Idiot was just a low effort cash in on the cheap pop politics of the day, hence, low hanging fruit.

edit: Dude. Juski and I actually agree on something, and for the SAME REASON. Take that as a sign from above.

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Just admit that if Green Day released American Idiot tomorrow about the Obama presidency, it would be the greatest album since Frampton Comes Alive

Nnnno, I don't think it fits. And even lyrics aside... it's just not that good. It has all the depth of lady gaga with all the musical talent of Creed, if they did a lot of caffeine and muscle relaxants.

Jan 25, 2012#239

ElJuski

yeah, that's fucked up

Jan 25, 2012#240

Ravenpoe

What's it mean if I like FLOBOTS?

Jan 25, 2012#241

Dave

It means you can ride your bike with no handlebars.

Jan 25, 2012#242

GasBandit

Ravenpoe said:
What's it mean if I like FLOBOTS?

Cancer. Sorry, man.

Jan 25, 2012#243

Ravenpoe

GasBandit said:
Cancer. Sorry, man.

Well fuck*

*mission accomplished!

Jan 25, 2012#244

ElJuski

I swear to god one day I'll open up a Pop-Culture clinic for the ill-listened.

Jan 25, 2012#245

Zappit

Oh, go back to the Decembrists, all of yah.

Jan 26, 2012#246

@Li3n

Espy said:
I think my all time favorite argument is the "Well, no one is losing out since I never would have bought it anyway". The logic of that completely loses me. I mean, there are some valid and some semi-valid reasons to dl torrents, but that one just mystifies me.

Well the position is that theft is wrong because when i take a thing from you you no longer have it...

Like if you had an actual cornucopia that gave out unlimited food, and someone took food from it without your permission, would he be a bad person, or would you for not giving it to everyone, because you'll never run out anyway.

Of course the problem is that while the virtual good are unlimited, food and shelter isn't, so they can't give out the unlimited resource for nothing because they'll starve... but if i can't/won't give him the amount of money he's asking then making another copy won't actually deprive anyone of the resource nor will it change the fact that he won't get any money from me... making a stand based on morals developed for limited resources makes little sense then...

Of course plenty of people that use that argument are probably lying...
Added at: 08:26

Charlie Don't Surf said:
healthcare is a right, season 3 of the sopranos is a privilege

Yeah, but healthcare needs limited resources to make more medicine etc... while making another copy of a Sopranos episode is virtually costless...

If healthcare and food where as easy to reproduce no one would even bother arguing about watching the Sopranos' without paying...

We'd be all like "what are you, a Ferengi?"

Jan 26, 2012#247

LordRendar

Does it make me a hipster if i just like the clothes and dont really care about the musik?

Jan 26, 2012#248

ElJuski

Hipsterism isn't about music. It's a scene.
Added at: 12:03

Zappit said:
Oh, go back to the Decembrists, all of yah.

The King Is Dead was one of my faves from last year. I keep hearing rave reviews of the B-sides, but I haven't checked it out yet.

Jan 26, 2012#249

AshburnerX

I've honestly only liked The Hazards of Love and a few single tracks from other albums. The Decemberists are kinda hit or miss. The songs that are good are amazing but the rest are just utterly forgettable.

Jan 26, 2012#250

GasBandit

Charlie Don't Surf said:
healthcare is a right, season 3 of the sopranos is a privilege

I can't believe this got by my radar. No, it isn't a right. You don't even know what "a right" is if you said this. By your logic, the 2nd amendment means the government has to buy us all guns.

Jan 26, 2012#251

Frankie Williamson

GasBandit said:
I can't believe this got by my radar. No, it isn't a right. You don't even know what "a right" is if you said this. By your logic, the 2nd amendment means the government has to buy us all guns.

It is in my country.

And by it is I meant the gun thing. Free guns for all.

Jan 26, 2012#252

GasBandit

Frankie Williamson said:
It is in my country.

And by it is I meant the gun thing. Free guns for all.

Israel actually does that.

Jan 26, 2012#253

ElJuski

AshburnerX said:
I've honestly only liked The Hazards of Love and a few single tracks from other albums. The Decemberists are kinda hit or miss. The songs that are good are amazing but the rest are just utterly forgettable.

and that's why I don't get music advice from you!

Jan 27, 2012#254

Espy

I haven't head the newest Decemberists album yet, but I really enjoyed their first couple (not to mention their live show, which was great). Maybe I'll check it out.

Jan 27, 2012#255

PatrThom

figmentPez said:
The part of this I don't like, is that cable companies have not lived up to their promises to make the content available to consumers. They have repeatedly knee-capped cable card technologies in order to make it harder for home users to access content they paid for. They have killed off firewire ports, and continually defied both what they promised customers and what they were legally required to do by the government. They have intentionally made it as difficult as possible to record video on your own terms, without renting a DVR from them, and specifically targeted any and all forms of DIY home theater boxes, trying to make them as expensive and difficult to implement as possible.

"Vendor Lock-in."

--Patrick
Added at: 13:39

Dave said:
American Idiot is better in both music and scope (content) than anything Weezer has ever done. Ever.

Do you mean the album? Or the Broadway musical?

--Patrick

Jan 27, 2012#256

figmentPez

PatrThom said:
"Vendor Lock-in."

Call it what you want, it's still a dick move and if cable companies aren't going to respect and defend my rights as a customer, I see no reason for me to accede to their unreasonable demands as media companies.

Jan 30, 2012#257

PatrThom

ScytheRexx said:
Nothing wrong with stopping shady businesses, as long as you protect the people who are affected by said business. I will never stand by the idea that should the government decide to shutter a business, that those utilizing it for legal reasons are "shit out of luck" when something they own is tied up in it. It is that passive, "this does not affect me, why should I care?" nature that bothers me the most. Again, this is not the servers breaking down in a freak accident. This is the feds making a conscious choice to shutter service regardless of legal users, with servers and an infrastructure already there to provide said users to reclaim what they put up.

Well, guess what? Looks like some people are just shit out of luck.

Attorney General set to destroy tens of millions of users' legitimate MegaUpload files

--Patrick

Jan 30, 2012#258

Covar

Well according to MegaUpload's terms of service, if you lost any personal files that was on you.

http://popcrush.com/department-justice-megaupload-users-deleted-terms-service/

Feb 1, 2012#259

Tiq

I'll just leave this here, shall I?

Ron Paul Exposed As White Supremacist By Anonymous
www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/01/ron-paul-exposed-as-white-supremacist-by-anonymous/

Feb 1, 2012#260

Jay

Feb 1, 2012#261

Frankie Williamson

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