9-11 Conspiracy
- Thread starter blotsfan
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Or they say, "because it's all part of THE PLAN!"
I dunno, I like X-files as much as the next guy, and I do believe there are conspiracies out there, but I'm healthily skeptical and look at both sides of the argument before making a judgement.
As to the 9/11 conspiracy, there's been so much back and forth and BOTH sides site such shakey sources that I've decided to just be glad it's over and move on.
As to the 9/11 conspiracy, there's been so much back and forth and BOTH sides site such shakey sources that I've decided to just be glad it's over and move on.
That's pretty much how I feel on it. I really wish I had the education and knowledge on the science involved to make my own view on it. As it stands, it's hard to tell who is fudging their numbers to support their position.
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Iaculus
Human brains are interesting things. They are designed to make connections, and I believe most conspiracy theorists are not unlike cargo cults.
They already believe the gov't is out to get them, so rather than looking at the evidence alone, they fit the evidence into their pre-conceived notions of the gov't, and *click* it all makes sense!
They already believe the gov't is out to get them, so rather than looking at the evidence alone, they fit the evidence into their pre-conceived notions of the gov't, and *click* it all makes sense!
I had no clue what these were, so I googled them.
That's really fascinating in a creepy kind of way.
fade
Staff member
I like to think I'm open-minded, mind you, but that film, as far as I watched it, was full of hypocritical psuedoscience and conjecture. It was nicely done as a propaganda piece, ironically. But the whole intro is based on scattered information that's just as likely to have meant a number of things. For instance, the idea of a hijacked plane as a missile was nothing new by any shot. Terrorists had been using our deep-seated fear of flying against us for a long while. On top of that, the WTC had actually been built with a plane strike in mind. Part of the reason for the steel skin structure was to transfer the force like a bulletproof vest. Then, there's a lot of conjecture about g-forces and stalling based on anecdotal statements from pilots who probably, despite experience, had never intentionally tried to drive an airplane into the ground on a deep spiral. Also, they cite these conservative groups talking about the morbid benefits of an attack on US soil. Whoopdedoo. Everybody knows that, especially a political party that historically does well when a war takes place while they're in power. I didn't make it there, but it looks like they were going to make the case that the buildings collapsed as though they were demolished. I've heard that one before, and again, I have to go right back to the steel skin structure. It pancaked among zones of weakness. Etc, etc.
Green_Lantern
Staff member
my view of this, and I know is not the most "ideal", is quite simple:
If there is any kind of force that is strong enough to promote a conspiracy like the 9/11 who am *I* to try to chalenge it? I mean really, these conspiracy theorist are just nuts because, not only they suppose to believe in those things but they "try" to change things, like if there is any hope to have actual sucess against something so big.
You would have better luck trying to stop a storm using a spork (why a spork? Alliteration!)
If there is any kind of force that is strong enough to promote a conspiracy like the 9/11 who am *I* to try to chalenge it? I mean really, these conspiracy theorist are just nuts because, not only they suppose to believe in those things but they "try" to change things, like if there is any hope to have actual sucess against something so big.
You would have better luck trying to stop a storm using a spork (why a spork? Alliteration!)
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Le Quack
The campus greens at my college had a top 9-11 conspiracy theorist come to the campus, and had them debate some random student that researched everything.
What I noticed is that the 9-11 theorist used debate tactics similar to Glenn Beck. The student that followed after the theorist destroyed all of his arguments with common knowledge and information that was available to the public
What I noticed is that the 9-11 theorist used debate tactics similar to Glenn Beck. The student that followed after the theorist destroyed all of his arguments with common knowledge and information that was available to the public
That's how they get you... with their logic and information.... crafty bastards.
P
Philosopher B.
I think conspiracy theories are addictive for some people ... I came across this one whacko in a forum once. Bitch practically collected conspiracy theories. It's like, I can almost see believing in one, but not everything is a dad-blamed conspiracy.
who voted yes
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RocketGirl
I really have next to no doubt that the actual event of 9-11 is what-you-see-is-what-you-get: planes hijacked, flown into buildings, buildings collapse. I'd have to see some REALLY compelling evidence to think otherwise.
It would not shock me to discover that the Shrubya Administration had learned of the impending attack and decided to let it happen in order to further their goals...but no part of me thinks that they otherwise had a hand in it.
And it wouldn't shock me to discover instead that they were caught completely flat-footed on this, either.
I could totally go both ways on that score.
That's as conspiracy-licious as I'm willing to go on 9-11.
It would not shock me to discover that the Shrubya Administration had learned of the impending attack and decided to let it happen in order to further their goals...but no part of me thinks that they otherwise had a hand in it.
And it wouldn't shock me to discover instead that they were caught completely flat-footed on this, either.
I could totally go both ways on that score.
That's as conspiracy-licious as I'm willing to go on 9-11.
I think conspiracy theories come about because of human skepticism. Yes, you read that right. There are tons of people out there that just can't wrap their minds around the idea that a healthy young president was murdered by a lone nut with a gun, that men using computers less powerful than modern toys made it to the moon and back, or that a bunch of dumb asses with box cutters could kill thousands and demolish skyscrapers. So, unable to believe the "official story", they start looking for a more "sensible" explanation...one that is big enough to fit the importance of the event. Once they've reached their conclusion, they feel like the only ones smart enough to "get it" and thus a conspiracy theory is born.
As far as 9/11 goes...which is more likely:
A shadowy government conspiracy remote controls two commercial airplanes they then fly into the Twin Towers. The Towers have secretly been rigged with charges or thermite or something that has been placed in such a way to be unnoticed but be in the right spots to demolish the buildings. Tower 7 of the World Trade Center has also been set up to be demolished but they don't bother with an airplane for that one. Meanwhile, they disappear a third airplane before firing a missile at the Pentagon. Before emergency crews or people with cameras show up, they scatter airplane parts around the grounds to make it APPEAR the missing plane hit it. Finally, they shoot down a fourth airliner that they had agents "hijack" to make it seem the people on the plane were heroes. Pin it all on some Muslims, and you've got yourself a war.
A shadowy terrorist conspiracy picks a group of young extremists for a daring attack on American soil. These young men take pilot lessons and all book airline tickets for the morning of 9/11. Using box cutters they brought aboard the plane, they threaten the plane's crew into giving them control of the airplane and then crash the plane into a set of targets in New York and Washington. On one airplane, the passengers fight back and manage to crash themselves harmlessly (to anyone not on the plane) into a field. This whole thing is carried off because no on realistically thought anyone would be crazy/evil enough to do such a thing.
There was a "conspiracy" on 9/11. It was just carried out by some homicidal religious whackjobs, not the CIA.
As far as 9/11 goes...which is more likely:
A shadowy government conspiracy remote controls two commercial airplanes they then fly into the Twin Towers. The Towers have secretly been rigged with charges or thermite or something that has been placed in such a way to be unnoticed but be in the right spots to demolish the buildings. Tower 7 of the World Trade Center has also been set up to be demolished but they don't bother with an airplane for that one. Meanwhile, they disappear a third airplane before firing a missile at the Pentagon. Before emergency crews or people with cameras show up, they scatter airplane parts around the grounds to make it APPEAR the missing plane hit it. Finally, they shoot down a fourth airliner that they had agents "hijack" to make it seem the people on the plane were heroes. Pin it all on some Muslims, and you've got yourself a war.
A shadowy terrorist conspiracy picks a group of young extremists for a daring attack on American soil. These young men take pilot lessons and all book airline tickets for the morning of 9/11. Using box cutters they brought aboard the plane, they threaten the plane's crew into giving them control of the airplane and then crash the plane into a set of targets in New York and Washington. On one airplane, the passengers fight back and manage to crash themselves harmlessly (to anyone not on the plane) into a field. This whole thing is carried off because no on realistically thought anyone would be crazy/evil enough to do such a thing.
There was a "conspiracy" on 9/11. It was just carried out by some homicidal religious whackjobs, not the CIA.
I have no doubt that the Bush administration exploited post-9/11 to the very last possible way they could. It's kind of obvious after all.
My thought on what happened before, after reading bits of Richard Clarke's book, is that they knew about the threat, dismissed it as far-fetched or more likely to fail like the previous WTC bombing attempt, and assumed that then-current security procedures were sufficient, and that they would be able to use the occurrence to further their foreign policy direction.
In short, I think gross incompetence is what allowed the attack to happen, as opposed to any guided Machiavellian intent on the part of the administration.
My thought on what happened before, after reading bits of Richard Clarke's book, is that they knew about the threat, dismissed it as far-fetched or more likely to fail like the previous WTC bombing attempt, and assumed that then-current security procedures were sufficient, and that they would be able to use the occurrence to further their foreign policy direction.
In short, I think gross incompetence is what allowed the attack to happen, as opposed to any guided Machiavellian intent on the part of the administration.
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Twitch
Someone tried to kill Nixon with a plane. Didn't work...
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Kitty Sinatra
The first baseman? How do you know Who voted yes?
Green_Lantern
Staff member
The first baseman? How do you know Who voted yes?[/QUOTE]
Is Who a doctor?
all polls must be public. I must know who to ridicule
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Twitch
Agreed
K
Kitty Sinatra
Well, I voted Yes.
'Cause, y'know, suicidal dudes funded by an evil organization to perform a dastardly deed is a conspiracy.
'Cause, y'know, suicidal dudes funded by an evil organization to perform a dastardly deed is a conspiracy.
I think you did it and are trying to divert.
I think you did it and are trying to divert.
[/QUOTE]look, the yes/no buttons are right next to each other.
Ditto. I need to know who to ignore forever around here.
The first baseman? How do you know Who voted yes?[/QUOTE]
Well, what's the guys name?
The first baseman? How do you know Who voted yes?[/quote]
Well, what's the guys name?[/QUOTE]
How does What even play into it? I thought we were talking about Who!?!
The first baseman? How do you know Who voted yes?[/quote]
Well, what's the guys name?[/QUOTE]
How does What even play into it? I thought we were talking about Who!?![/QUOTE]
That's what I'm asking! Who's the one who voted yes?
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RocketGirl
The first baseman? How do you know Who voted yes?[/quote]
Is Who a doctor?[/QUOTE]
No, it's Cindy Lou Who.
K
Kitty Sinatra
The first baseman? How do you know Who voted yes?[/quote]
Well, what's the guys name?[/QUOTE]
How does What even play into it? I thought we were talking about Who!?![/QUOTE]
That's what I'm asking! Who's the one who voted yes?[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm telling you. Who voted yes.
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