Glee

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I didn't notice how old the post was, sorry. No, you don't have to respond point by point. I also haven't really followed your posts in particular so I don't know if there's any particular history that would alter my base assumptions from that particular post.

The reason I felt motivated to respond was that frankly, the person did NOT seem all that angry/vengeful to me. Everything that he's genuinely angry about is stuff that I think is perfectly acceptable to be angry about, and I thought a lot of the language on the more controversial points was couched in terms of "this wouldn't be a big deal... except that it's combined with these other things." His initial point is that when you have a show that's guilty of all the same things as the rest of the shows out there, throws in tokens to look diverse, and then on top of that have the white main characters act all oppressed, it's adding insult to the usual injury.

Seriously though, I think some people confuse trying to appeal to the majority of people with racist. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more minority leads on shows and that white people can't identify with minorities, but the casual way racist is thrown around is kind of... crazy.
This is what I was trying to pre-emptively address with my final paragraph. There is a world of difference between people actively trying to hurt black people and people who have some subconscious prejudices that they don't notice who would never consciously think ill of people because of their race. But just because there is a difference does not absolve us of the fact that the latter is plenty harmful as well. And most of the rationalizations as to why it's okay are just that: rationalizations.

A lot of business executives THINK they are simply hiring based on the best resume, the best performance, the best writing. But studies have showed that that is simply not true. When you take away the names on resumes so that you can't tell whether a name sounds black or white, more black people get hired. When you do orchestra auditions blind, more women get accepted into the philharmonic.

When a movie starring black people does badly, they blame it on the black people. When a movie starring white dudes does badly, they never say "hey, maybe if we had thrown in more women or ethnic minorities."

The fact is that straight white dudes run most things, and as such they have a preference for straight white dudes. This doesn't make them bad in the way that the KKK is bad. I consider reflexively locking a car door when you see a black person on the street is approximately as bad a character flaw as forgetting your car keys, at least in terms of how "guilty" the person is. But that doesn't make all those actions collectively okay.

You can call it racism, or you can call it something else if you want, but it IS a problem and it needs to be fixed.

---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

Random note on the subject of "is the writer angry?"

His opening line "there is nothing more infuriating that middle class white people whining...." happened to have very similar wording to something a friend of mine said to me recently. I am a thin person. My friend is a.... not particularly thin person. I was complaining about not having time to exercise and eating too much ever since I started a new job, and I was worried about starting to gain a lot of weight. My friend said "You know what's really annoying? Thin people who complain to fat people about being fat."

He wasn't particularly angry about it, but it's the sort of thing that bugs him and which I probably should have thought about on my own without him having to remind me. So that was how I read the opening paragraph.

I actually was a little more turned off my the dissing of Lie to Me, but the Lie to Me rape episode I think was a fairly unique phenomenon in that it was not sexist because that's norm for hollywood and the writers were being lazy. The rape victim had to be lying because otherwise, the show would be boring. "He raped me." "Yup, they're telling the truth." "Okay, the end!" Not a good episode. In fact, my biggest problem was that even with the more drawn out version, it was painfully easy to predict the plot twists simply by virtue of the constraints of the show. There needs to be at least two twists, the first twist has to be that she's lying for some reason, the second twist has to be that she was somehow partially right.
 

Dave

Staff member
What a crappy episode. The music sucked and was REALLY forced, the kids were total dipshits (even though they are all like 30) and the show is getting less & less realistic. I don't mean the music, necessarily, because that's always been just stupidly overproduced, I'm talking about:

The QB thinking that taking the wheelchair kid to football tryouts would be a good idea.
None of the kids paying attention or even LOOKING at the kids singing in the common area.
The "sing-fight" in the bathroom was just fucking stupid. Add in the fact that they were autotuned and it was painfully eye-rollingly asinine.
The Asian exchange student (who spoke perfect English without an accent?) who was taken away by the rival club...? What? Did she switch schools now? Exchange students can do that on their own? WTF?

Sorry, Charlie. I know you love this show but this episode was fucking stupid from beginning to end. And the wheelchair kid rapping? :rolleyes:
 

Dave

Staff member
It's been MORE realistic in its situations and reactions of the people. Some of the actions in this first episode of the season were either out of character or just plain dumb.
 
And the wheelchair kid rapping? :rolleyes:
Yeah they need to cut that shit out ASAP. It's terrible. And whats the point of doing covers of songs that sound 100% like the original? Seems to me the last half of season 1 and this one the music folks have gotten really lazy. There is very little ingenuity in their versions of songs.

I'll be honest, my wife and I enjoyed the episode but on reflection it was pretty mediocre.
 
Any line by Sue. I liked the idea of Coach Beast and a few of her moments. I liked the ditzy blonde girl saying, "Everyone though I was on vacation this summer but I was really lost in the sewers".

But yeah, overall, not a good episode. It's like they don't know what to do with the show.
 
Seriously? I thought it was a pretty decent episode. I mean, by Glee standards. Glee has NEVER been consistently much better than this.

Plus, this line made the whole thing worthwhile:

"Mr. Schuester, are you aware there is a forum on my blog dedicated to getting you to stop rapping?"

"...kids... kids don't like it when I rap?"
:rofl:
 
That was pretty awesome. Really, I know they were using the first part of the show to address the criticism viewers have of the show and to say, "We are strong even in the face of your internet criticism!" but most of the main critiques were right on the money.

All in all the show is making me laugh less and less and the songs are less and less interesting. If they spend this season just rehashing storylines from last season (which is seems like they are setting themselves up to do)
 
Too much auto-tune this episode. Big-lipped kid had it all over his song. Not bad, but I hope it gets better.

---------- Post added at 10:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------

Also, Rachael has lost her fucking mind already. They need to calm her down a little.
 
P

Philosopher B.

The Coach Beist/Sue Sylvester stuff was basically the reason to watch this episode. Big meh on the music, especially the execution. I agree with Dave's points, though as stupid as #1 was, Finn has never been the brightest bulb, so I didn't think that quite was as bad as if another character did it ...


"Mr. Schuester, are you aware there is a forum on my blog dedicated to getting you to stop rapping?"

"...kids... kids don't like it when I rap?"
:rofl:
I too loled hard at that one.

Really, the only hiphop numbers I've enjoyed from this show were the songs they did that were already cheesy/bad (Good Vibrations, U Can't Touch This), on account of comedy reasons.
 
Other than the music, I liked it when I was watching. But upon reflection, I realized it was not good at all, and its for all the reasons Dave already said.

However, Jane Lynch still made it worth watching. Sue Sylvester is such a great character.

I legitimately felt bad for Coach Biest most of the episode.
 
The first half of the Brit episode was terrible. The songs were just remakes of the music videos, bland and uninspired. The second half? Pretty strong actually, once you got past Will being an idiot (AGAIN). The songs got better, they didn't just do a note for note remake and the characters were less annoying.

Also: Whats the point of having Britney Spears on your show but only letting her say like 2 little lines?
 
One more episode. This show has one more episode to convince me to keep watching.
That last one was AWFUL.
The best part of the whole episode was in my head. I couldn't help but hear Scudworth scream "STAMOS!!" everytime John Stamos appeared on screen.
The second best part of the episode was a Sue Sylvester line.
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
Also: Whats the point of having Britney Spears on your show but only letting her say like 2 little lines?
lets be honest, she couldn't even say those lines without sounding forced and awkward, I don't even want to imagine the result if she had a entire conversation.
 
I actually enjoyed the most of the first half of the Britney episode but had to skip through most of the non-singing parts in the second half. Britanny (our version) was simply hilarious. I'm fine with the music videos starring her being note-for-note remakes because, hey, she's Britney.

Second half had every acting so STUPID I wanted to gouge my eyes out.
 
Fuck that autotuning! I don't know anything about music, I got no ear for it, and even I can tell that the voices are losing all their personality due to the excessive edition...

Also, most of last episode was annoying:

First, everyone are jerks by trying to push their beliefs on the poor guy, in a very bad moment. And they keep doing so for a while
Then Kurt's a jackass for going overboard and not letting them express their beliefs at all or pray for his father.
Some characters seem to think you can express your beliefs but disbelief needs to be kept personal. Assholes.
Later on, Kurt apologizes, he should because he's been a bit stupid, but the rest (Mercedes) don't need to, like all they did was right?? (THIS is what I found really annoying).

In the end, the believers understand that Kurt doesn't need to believe in God. THANKS! (I actually more or less liked how this was done, but it is brought down by the rest of the episode).

What I DID like was Sue.
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
Fuck that autotuning! I don't know anything about music, I got no ear for it, and even I can tell that the voices are losing all their personality due to the excessive edition...

Also, most of last episode was annoying:

First, everyone are jerks by trying to push their beliefs on the poor guy, in a very bad moment. And they keep doing so for a while
Then Kurt's a jackass for going overboard and not letting them express their beliefs at all or pray for his father.
Some characters seem to think you can express your beliefs but disbelief needs to be kept personal. Assholes.
Later on, Kurt apologizes, he should because he's been a bit stupid, but the rest (Mercedes) don't need to, like all they did was right?? (THIS is what I found really annoying).

In the end, the believers understand that Kurt doesn't need to believe in God. THANKS! (I actually more or less liked how this was done, but it is brought down by the rest of the episode).

What I DID like was Sue.
I oddly don't hate this episode, even though I think I should, I mean, yet again atheists are "god haters" or "don't believe because they lives are bad", arguments like "If God, why not Vishnu? or Odin? Or Venus? Or Tiamat?". Also the comparation between believing in god with believing in his father love.

Finn: His behavior in the episode... you know what bothers me about it? It is consistent. I can't say that it doesn't fit the character, the fact that he is averagely so stupid is what bugs me.

Quinn: The catholic schoolgirl without a schoolgirl outfit, barely shows up at all.

Yet

I still liked the episode, if only because there is some much kindness, compassion and love in it. Specially moments like Brit's "I made him a card that says that heart attacks are from loving too much" or Finn's reaching to Kurt's shoulder. Plus the beatle song, with the flashbacks, are so... sweet.
 
I liked Finn's part, as a criticism to how some (many) people confuse superstition with religion.

And the Beatles song with flashbacks was heartwarming to say the least.

Okay, maybe it wasn't so bad. Still... fuck the autotuning.
 
The original argument says something like 'on some point between earth and neptune', which I guess makes more sense but is less accessible for part of the audience.
 

Green_Lantern

Staff member
Well, how acurate is the "find-stuff-in-space" technology that we have? a teapot is rather small, plus it might be moving, so we need to have technology that could scan the entire darkside of the moon at once and be able to detect and distinguish any teapot-shaped objects.


Also: What is the difference between superstition and religion??
 
OK, I just have to say something about Glee that's been bugging me for a while.

If Rachel wants to help Kurt feel like he's not alone, why doesn't she introduce him to

HER 2 GAY DADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GRRRRRR......
 
I loved the last two episodes. The former is my favorite "Religion" episode of a TV show of all time (although this is mostly because said episodes are usually horribly bad). I thought the way Kurt's atheism was brought up was handled well and the songs were fantastic. The biggest disappointment of such episodes is that they usually end on a generic "believe in something" note but they despite their awkward bipartisanship never manage to point out any compelling things that atheists can believe in. This one did that perfectly.

This weeks didn't have a single part I can point to as amazing, but was just a lot of good writing, much better than usual.
 

Dave

Staff member
I'm surprised nobody has said anything about the two girls making out. The one says, "This is a nice change from scissoring."

:wtf:


And of course in two weeks...Rocky Horror Glee! That one I'll actually watch instead of just listening to while the wife watches.
 
I love Glee! I was psyched for the Britney episode, but felt they relied too much on dream sequences... Loved the music but wish there was more of a story for that episode.
I loved the religion episode, though! And Tina & Mike Chang's duet was adorable in Duets.
 
I'm surprised nobody has said anything about the two girls making out. The one says, "This is a nice change from scissoring."

:wtf:
HOly crap, I haven't watched it yet but... they really say that? Damn. Thats... wow.
 
I'm surprised nobody has said anything about the two girls making out. The one says, "This is a nice change from scissoring."

:wtf:
HOly crap, I haven't watched it yet but... they really say that? Damn. Thats... wow.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. That was out of the blue for their characters and completely unnecessary, uncalled for and clearly just put in to garner some controversy and thus free pubicity.

But that aside, I actually thought this was the best episode of the season. Good performances for the most part. Moved things along, though only a little, and nearly all the kids actually had a role to play.

Its weird that Jane Lynch has been the only reason to watch the show for a while, and yet this episode managed to stand on its own without her.
 
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