The droning of Obama's speech

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GasBandit

GasBandit

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On the one hand, I like the idea of drones being used in foreign theaters to keep our troops out of dangers. On the other hand, there's a lot of smoke, mirrors, cloaks and daggers going on around our drone programs... and I worry about how easily the decision could be made to deploy armed drones domestically. For your protection, citizen, of course.
 
strawman

strawman

The recent release of legal theory about the executive branches ability to kill US citizens, where the determination is made be bureaucrats and not judges or jury, and the papers suggesting that imminent threat is hard to quantify, so it's better to be safe than sorry, worries me greatly in connection with drone use in US airspace.

Right now it's military, but more and more police and FBI have access to them for surveillance, how long before they are armed, and start thinking about the president's legal theories regarding imminent danger?
 
Gared

Gared

Coincidentally, the Seattle PD started a drone program back in 2011, using money that they got from their Homeland Security grants to purchase 2 small, recon only aerial drones. They'd already chosen pilots for the drones, trained those officers in the use of the drones, and established some pretty strict guidelines for when the drones could be used, under what circumstances, and what sort of data could be used from those drones. The drones had yet to be used when one member of the city council decided that the already pretty strict guidelines weren't strict enough, and submitted an agenda item for a council meeting (and then publicized that agenda item) and managed to get the ACLU to show up with a couple hundred people to decry the "Nazi state" (their words, not mine) use of drones for surveillance of innocent civilians. The drones were to be used in hostage situations, search and rescue, natural disaster recovery, and hazmat situations.
 
strawman

strawman

"Dear ACLU,

We tried hiring cops who could fly without airplanes, but no one applied for the job, so we're using robots. If you know any qualified candidates that only require $20k per year in salary and maintenance costs we'd like you to refer them to us."

The funny thing is that cops would be flying them anyway. It wouldn't be any different than an officer walking along the street trying to resolve a case, except the sidewalk is a skywalk.
 
Gared

Gared

But, if we allow flying drones, then police will be able to spy on us inside our homes (never mind the fact that the police would be required to get warrants to even fly the drones above people's homes) and see our pot plants watch us sunbathing naked in the backyard!
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Observation warrants are given as a matter of course since the PATRIOT Act. If the police want to observe you, they don't need to give much of a reason anymore.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

The drones not be much different than police helicopters, hell not much different than News-Traffic Helicopters. Except they are far more inexpensive. They are even less likely to shoot at innocent criminals on a shooting spree.
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

sixpackshaker said:
The drones not be much different than police helicopters, hell not much different than News-Traffic Helicopters. Except they are far more inexpensive. They are even less likely to shoot at innocent criminals on a shooting spree.
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I wondered first how a criminal might be innocent, then was further confounded by the shooting spree the criminal was undertaking. The ACLU has sure broadened their umbrella!
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Gared said:
But, if we allow flying drones, then police will be able to spy on us inside our homes (never mind the fact that the police would be required to get warrants to even fly the drones above people's homes) and see our pot plants watch us sunbathing naked in the backyard!
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And these SAME people will bitch about Google Maps not having their street available in Street View 5 minutes later. Because government is bad, but corporations providing free services are good. Ahem.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Drones scare the shit out of me, police-state wise. I don't want ANY branch to have the type of unilateral power that the "war on terror" has granted the executive branch, regardless of how much I support the current president.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Bowielee said:
Drones scare the shit out of me, police-state wise. I don't want ANY branch to have the type of unilateral power that the "war on terror" has granted the executive branch, regardless of how much I support the current president.
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How will a drone equate to unilateral power?
 
Gared

Gared

Bowielee said:
Drones scare the shit out of me, police-state wise. I don't want ANY branch to have the type of unilateral power that the "war on terror" has granted the executive branch, regardless of how much I support the current president.
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But do you also oppose the 5M civilian (a.k.a. "commercial") drones that are projected by the FAA to be flying all around the skies in the US by 2015? Drones used for things like tracking crop growth, checking power lines for damage/breaks, monitoring traffic, etc.?
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

sixpackshaker said:
How will a drone equate to unilateral power?
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It's an example of flexing that unilateral power. The idea that people can be spied upon under "suspicion of terrorism" is leading to the death of privacy and individual rights in our country. Not to mention the fact that if this does go further, drones can be used militarily for strikes against suspected civilians.[DOUBLEPOST=1360956320][/DOUBLEPOST]Even with Bush out of office, we're creeping towards neo-Macarthyism.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Bowielee said:
It's an example of flexing that unilateral power. The idea that people can be spied upon under "suspicion of terrorism" is leading to the death of privacy and individual rights in our country. Not to mention the fact that if this does go further, drones can be used militarily for strikes against suspected civilians.[DOUBLEPOST=1360956320][/DOUBLEPOST]Even with Bush out of office, we're creeping towards neo-Macarthyism.
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We have not had military action against civilians in this country since General MacArthur and Eisenhower lead a cavalry charge against homeless WWI vets on the Capitol Mall.[DOUBLEPOST=1360956678][/DOUBLEPOST]This is the same technology as the police helicopter, except it stays up longer, is cheaper to operate, and is not going to be armed.
 
Covar

Covar

Bowielee said:
It's an example of flexing that unilateral power. The idea that people can be spied upon under "suspicion of terrorism" is leading to the death of privacy and individual rights in our country. Not to mention the fact that if this does go further, drones can be used militarily for strikes against suspected civilians
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Your issues are not related to the technology then, but the people behind it. There's no reason unmanned aircraft should use a different policy for deployment and operation than a manned aircraft. Your issue lies with the politicians and bureaucrats.

Gared said:
But do you also oppose the 5M civilian (a.k.a. "commercial") drones that are projected by the FAA to be flying all around the skies in the US by 2015? Drones used for things like tracking crop growth, checking power lines for damage/breaks, monitoring traffic, etc.?
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Technology is amazing. That's all I can think when I read about the possible civilian uses.
 
strawman

strawman

I'm looking forward to civilian uses.

I can't count how many times I've wanted to launch a UAV from my car trunk when stuck on the freeway to find out what the blockage is and how far away it is.

Also to menace drivers acting stupidly.

Would also love to be able to send out a UAV once a month and get high resolution ground imagery, then animate it for a year video showing how an area changes through the seasons.

It would be neat to send one out during forest fires, storms, and other catastrophic events to capture footage and relay telemetry. As a storm spotter there are thousands of uses.

And that only covers the things I can think about now for very small UAVs. There are countless uses we can't even imagine. To some degree it's like the Internet, until one can buy a UAV kit from amazon for $80 and program it simply with our mobile phones, we won't really grasp how many ways they can be used.
 
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