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Worse and Worse and Worse...Phantom Menace goes 3-D

#1

Zappit

Zappit

http://scoop.today.msnbc.msn.com/_n...gor-surprised-by-plans-for-3-d-phantom-menace

Lucas is at it again - PM going back to theaters in 3-D. Never mind the article's about Ewan McGregor - it's the confirmation of the rehash that counts.


#2

evilmike

evilmike

The Secret Origin of The Phantom Menace 3-D Movie Poster


#3

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

This isn't too much for a surprise. Lucas has been talking about this since Avatar came out.


#4

Allen who is Quiet

Allen who is Quiet

Fuck you too, George.


#5

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

Meesa is thinking... this is gonna be poodoo!


#6

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I love Yoda's face on the poster. "Meh."


#7

Null

Null

It looks like Yoda is checking out Darth Maul's ass and making a "Not Bad" face. Which is still more entertaining than the entire movie.


#8

Calleja

Calleja

I thought it was common knowledge as soon as the "re-launches" were announced that they were ALL gonna be 3D


#9

PatrThom

PatrThom

Ooo, I think the best part is how the poster depicts Darth Maul...holding his double-ended saber. Now we don't even need to wait for the trailer to spoil the movie, cuz now it's right there on the poster!

--Patrick


#10

bhamv3

bhamv3

I'm going to just go in for the last 20 minutes, with the lightsaber duel.


#11

PatrThom

PatrThom

But you'll miss the pod race!
(and your free bonus chance to puke)

--Patrick


#12

Mathias

Mathias

Funny part is it'll still make money, and geeks everywhere will gladly fork over 15 bucks... bitching all the way.


#13

checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Meh. I won't get upset about it, cause I am not going to see it.


#14

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Since Jar-Jar is the character that was originally rendered in 3-D, he'll likely end up getting more screen time.

Just think how funny it will be when Qui Jung-Il grabs Jar-Jar's tounge IN 3-D :(


#15

strawman

strawman

Maybe they'll re-do the scene where jar-jar grabs a meat thing with his tongue so it comes out of the screen, wraps around the viewers head, and then yanks.

Overall I'm meh. There may be some value to watching it in 3d- especially the duels and the pod race.

I suspect that Lucas will have it done well - It's a conversion, so it's not going to be great (and there will be a lot more people complaining about headaches than with a real 3d movie) but as long as he does it well, and does a good job on later conversions, I don't think it's a bad thing.

This is is baby, and he's going to keep modifying it until it matches his vision - which changes over time.


#16

Frank

Frankie Williamson

sixpackshaker said:
Since Jar-Jar is the character that was originally rendered in 3-D, he'll likely end up getting more screen time.

Just think how funny it will be when Qui Jung-Il grabs Jar-Jar's tounge IN 3-D :(
Click to expand...
That would have made the movie amazing.


#17

Dei

Dei

This just reminds me of the "Ewok Line" conversation from HIMYM. I imagine there's a Jar Jar line too. Because I'm going to take my 9 year old son to see Ep. 1, and I can basically guarantee that he will love Jar Jar. However, I am not paying money to see the piece of shit that is episode 2. I can deal with Ep. 1.

(http://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...rney-Stinson-How-I-Met-Your-Mother-35922.html)


#18

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Just don't see it. See a movie that's in theaters that doesn't suck instead


#19

Espy

Espy

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Just don't see it. See a movie that's in theaters that doesn't suck instead
Click to expand...
Yuuuuuuuuup.


#20

Covar

Covar

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Just don't see it. See a movie that's in theaters that doesn't suck instead
Click to expand...
Not sure if I can. Those movies have me whipped.


#21

Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Covar said:
Not sure if I can. Those movies have me whipped.
Click to expand...
ok


#22

Steve

Steve

Mathias said:
Funny part is it'll still make money, and geeks everywhere will gladly fork over 15 bucks... bitching all the way.
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I'll be there for Episodes 4-6. Maybe Episode 3. Possibly Episode 2. But not Episode 1. Okay, I'll be there for all 6. Curse you Lucas. I know 1-3 suck and I'm still going to watch it in 3d.


#23

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Lucas has already gotten enough of my money. He won't get more for the same damn movies.


#24

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

ThatNickGuy said:
Lucas has already gotten enough of my money. He won't get more for the same damn movies.
Click to expand...
Well RED TAILS will be out soon.


#25

Terrik

Terrik

I'll see it if it comes out in China, if not, I won't cry over it.


#26

Shegokigo

Shegokigo



Saved you $15-20.


#27

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Seeing Arriety, Brave, Dark Knight Rises, Avengers, Hobbit, Prometheus this year... I can see 7 movies and that's 6. What else good is coming out? I feel like I'm forgetting something for the summer.

Hint: Not seeing this shit.


#28

Thread Necromancer

Thread Necromancer

This will be the first time I will NOT be at an opening night for a star wars film. I will not be there the second, third, or any other night either.


#29

Adam

Adammon

Oh god, how awesome would it be for this to flop; just to give George Lucas an eye-opener that Star Wars is not a vacuum to suck our wallets empty with.


#30

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

It would be extremely awesome... too bad it's also extremely unlikely.

I won't be going to see it. 3D conversions done in post production are never as good as ones filmed natively in it anyways.


#31

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

George Lucas works the Star Wars franchise for money like a pimp does a ho who looks like sixteen. News at eleven.

Also, not going to see this. I hate to admit it, but I tried to watch the original trilogy a while back... I couldn't 'cause I kept fearing Jar Jar might pounce out from nowhere all of a sudden.


#32

Calleja

Calleja

I'm glad movie theaters are still less than $5USD here (and digital),I can go see pretty much any movie in a kick-ass giant screen without feeling bad if it's a stinker.


#33

Bowielee

Bowielee

I hate post 3D, so this definitely won't be on my list. What pisses me off is that all these post production 3D hackjobs are going to kill 3D in movies because the average movie goer doesn't even understand the difference between natively shot 3D and post production 3D.


#34

Emrys

Emrys

Every time I hear that Lucas has changed something in the movies, I picture him as Smeagol/Gollum.

"We must improve our movies, yes, precious."
"No, we can't. We promised".
"We lied, precious. Oh yes."


#35

Espy

Espy

Honestly I do not understand why anyone thinks the Darth Maul fight is good. It's got zero-tension, despite the attempt to give it emotional depth it has none, all it really has is cool music. IMO of course.


#36

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

Espy said:
Honestly I do not understand why anyone thinks the Darth Maul fight is good. It's got zero-tension, despite the attempt to give it emotional depth it has none, all it really has is cool music. IMO of course.
Click to expand...
Would you prefer the darth gramps fight in attack of the clones? ;)


#37

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Espy said:
Honestly I do not understand why anyone thinks the Darth Maul fight is good. It's got zero-tension, despite the attempt to give it emotional depth it has none, all it really has is cool music. IMO of course.
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Wow Espy, my deepest condolences, I had no idea you were blind. It must be a challenge for you everyday to post on this board ;)


#38

Espy

Espy

Hey, I like flips and shit and that fight has tons of 'em, it just never felt like anything other than some great choreography was happening. It had none of the tension of Luke's battle with Darth Vader in Empire. I mean, hey, I'm glad you liked it, tons of people liked Ep1 and thought that the battles were awesome, it just never got beyond "looks cool" for me.

Azurephoenix said:
Would you prefer the darth gramps fight in attack of the clones? ;)
Click to expand...
Oh geese, that was even worse. Comparatively the Darth Maul fight was awesome. Of course compared to that fight Sponge Bob fighting a rock would be awesome.


#39

bhamv3

bhamv3

A lot of the prequel fights were already foregone conclusions though, so a lack of tension is pretty much expected. Obi-Wan's not gonna die in the first, second or third films. Anakin's not going to beat Obi-Wan, and Yoda's not going to beat Sidious in the third film. However, because Anakin needs to lose to Obi-Wan, that means Dooku's not going to beat Anakin at the beginning of the third film.

In the end, if you don't have that tension, then "looks cook" and choreography are all you got. And that's all I need, personally!


#40

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Espy said:
it just never got beyond "looks cool" for me.
Click to expand...
You didn't feel "tension" because there was no build of up with Maul progressively becoming more and more of a threat to the Jedi. It was more like "Oh he chased us" "Oh he's here now".

And yeah, it also didn't need to go beyond "looks cool" because it's easily the best looking fight of all 6 movies.


#41

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

My issue with the Ep1 fight was...

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT HUGE ROOM FOR?!!??!

Why didn't the Naboo just run into the room during the invasion, the whole population could have hidden there for several weeks with out notice.


#42

Jay

Jay

How much do I hate this 3D idea? So much that I wish I was able to ignore this thread so it would stop appearing in my What's New? updates.

So let's all be kind chaps and just let this thread DIE.


#43

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

He says as he just bumped the thread.

Oops, looks like I did too!

(Ignore Thread feature would be nice though)


#44

strawman

strawman

sixpackshaker said:
WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT HUGE ROOM FOR?!!??!
Click to expand...
When you move terawatt energies around in power centers of advanced civilizations, even with superconductors, it requires huge, huge conductors, relays, etc. It also requires a lot of cooling, thus the "pit". Further, huge, huge conductors and relays require big corridors for access, replacement, and maintenance.

Plus it looks good when you take the investors on tour. Showing them a little cramped room and saying, "Your twenty bazillion units of money resulted in this tiny cramped room" doesn't sell as well as ushering them into a huge corridor and saying, "This is the result of your money."

Oh, and because it was in the script.


#45

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

With a hugenormous power station like that, you would think that the Nabooians had enough power to force-field the planet and blast the F* out of the trade federation.

Hell, they live in a perfect temperate climate, and they don't even use freaking internal light sources. All the light they need shines through their giant glass windows.


#46

strawman

strawman

As a peaceful trade race, they didn't spend nearly enough on defense. Any country in the middle east that didn't spend on defense was consumed by their neighbor once oil became profitable. So too with the trade wars.


#47

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

OK, so Naboo made its money shipping batteries to the galactic core...


#48

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

sixpackshaker said:
OK, so Naboo made its money shipping batteries to the galactic core...
Click to expand...
Their main export is actually cheesy romance novels.


#49

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Ravenpoe said:
Their main export is actually cheesy romance novels.
Click to expand...
Closely followed by selling dominatrix costumes to Virgin Queens.


#50

Covar

Covar

Ravenpoe said:
Their main export is actually cheesy romance novels.
Click to expand...
From the moment I met you, all those years ago, not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. And now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you- I can't breath. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask.


#51

strawman

strawman

Covar said:
From the moment I met you, all those years ago, not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. And now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you- I can't breath. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask.
Click to expand...
i cried at this twilight quote and i kno you did to if your a romantic put this on your profile today and show every1!


#52

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Covar said:
From the moment I met you, all those years ago, not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. And now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you- I can't breath. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask.
Click to expand...
These lines might have worked better if the Virgin Queen actually had something to say in that 10 minute, uncomfortable, monologue.

ya know make it a conversation, not the lines a nerdy stalker uses before he rams the knife into her chest...


#53

Espy

Espy

That twilight quote has more tension in it than the Darth Maul fight. :awesome:


#54

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Espy said:
That twilight quote has more tension in it than the Darth Maul fight. :awesome:
Click to expand...
No.


#55

Espy

Espy

Yes. :aaah:


#56

ElJuski

ElJuski

Me during most of The Phantom Menace


#57

Espy

Espy

I think the only time I got excited was in the first 5 minutes. The moment the Jedi stood in that room waiting for the trap to be sprung completely out of the blue I remember thinking... "uh-oh... I wish I hadn't bought tickets to the next showing as well..."


#58

Steve

Steve

I wish they would have kept Darth Maul through the trilogy. I thought it would have been more powerful if he killed Qui-Gon in front of Anakin and Obi Wan. In the third episode Anakin could have fought him in front of the emperor and fueled by rage kill Maul thus pushing Anakin to the dark side. Although I wouldn't have killed Qui-Gon in the first movie. I would have made him more of a father figure to Anakin. Then in one swoop Maul kills Qui Gon and Tuscan Raiders kill Anakin's mom. Losing the only two people he loved pushes him to the dark side. But I would have kept Jar Jar in there so what do I know.


#59

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I kind of agree, Espy. It's got all the spectacle, but none of the emotion. There's really not much at stake. Certainly not even remotely compared to any of the first trilogy.
Added at: 19:39
Steve: Totally. If I'd written that scene, I would've had Maul make a face to Obi-Wan and beat feet.


#60

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatNickGuy said:
Steve: Totally. If I'd written that scene, I would've had Maul make a face to Obi-Wan and beat feet.
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And he totally had the opportunity to since Obi-Wan was stuck behind the barrier. He would've been completely incapable of pursuing until the barrier went down again and would've had no chance of catching up unless he used that super-run from the beginning of the movie.


#61

bhamv3

bhamv3

But Maul was stuck on the other side of the barrier, in the cramped room with a pit in it. Where's he going to go? Dive down the pit?


#62

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

We don't know if there was any other way out, though, did we? He could've just beat feet and disappear off-screen, leaving Obi-Wan with his mentor's body.
Added at: 20:20
Honestly though, the only reason we had more characters like Dooku and...whathisname (the cyborg guy; don't bother correcting, you know the one I mean) was to sell more toys.


#63

bhamv3

bhamv3

Now, I'm not going to dispute that the characters of Dooku and General Grievous probably helped the merchandise income. ("Moichandising! Where the real money from the movie is made!) But there's a story-related reason for their existence too: They all represented aspects of what would eventually become Vader.

Maul was a Sith lord, who did Sidious's bidding. Dooku was a former Jedi. Grievous was a cyborg. Eventually Sidious found someone who combined the traits of all three.

Damn, I just realized this makes me sound like I like the prequel trilogy. I'm gonna get a pillocking now, aren't I...


#64

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

*polishes his pitchfork* Hm? Oh, no no no, Bhamv. We're all good. Although, now that I think of it, could you go help Espy with that giant vat of tar?


#65

bhamv3

bhamv3

Yessir Mr. Nick, yessir! Though Espy keeps asking me to test the temperature, is that supposed to be happening? I'm running out of fingers to burn.


#66

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

There's one good thing to have come out of the prequels.



I loved the clone wars cartoons. Both of them.


#67

KCWM

KCWM

I'll go see it. I'm a sucker for Star Wars.


#68



@li3n...

Ravenpoe said:
There's one good thing to have come out of the prequels.



I loved the clone wars cartoons. Both of them.
Click to expand...
No, the prequels sucked so bad that even Sam Jackson wasn't memorable in them...

Darth Maul and Duel of the Fates stand out more in my mind... most likely because Maul had the advantage of only having like 2 lines.


#69

ElJuski

ElJuski

The problem with Star Wars, and I guess, its inherent success, is that, much like the Oscars or the Super Bowl, has become such an ingrained pop-cultural institution that people have this stupid subconscious obligation.

I think Weezer works under the same principle.


#70

Espy

Espy

ElJuski said:
I think Weezer works under the same principle.
Click to expand...
It's so true. :(


#71

Steve

Steve

Ravenpoe said:
There's one good thing to have come out of the prequels.



I loved the clone wars cartoons. Both of them.
Click to expand...
I agree, Todd Bridges made the trilogy.


#72

Bowielee

Bowielee

I actually love what people OTHER than Lucas have done with the ideas introduced in the prequels. That's why he should have had people who could tell him "no George, that's just stupid" during filming.


#73

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Steve said:
I agree, Todd Bridges made the trilogy.
Click to expand...


#74

evilmike

evilmike

Steve said:
I agree, Todd Bridges made the trilogy.
Click to expand...


#75

Steve

Steve



Why, George, why? Now we have Darth Maul doing slapstick. Why do you hate us so?


#76

checkeredhat

checkeredhat

^ Love the animation on that though.
Added at: 04:35
Covar said:
From the moment I met you, all those years ago, not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. And now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you- I can't breath. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me... what can I do?- I will do anything you ask.
Click to expand...
Is that ACTUALLY a Twilight quote? And people read that? WILLINGLY?


#77

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

checkeredhat said:
^ Love the animation on that though.
Added at: 04:35

Is that ACTUALLY a Twilight quote? And people read that? WILLINGLY?
Click to expand...
No, that's from Episode II: Attack of the Clones.


#78

checkeredhat

checkeredhat

That is honestly what I thought, until someone else had attributed it to Twilight.


#79

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

What's awful is that it could be from either.


#80

Bowielee

Bowielee

George Lucas + romantic dialogue = :puke:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=150


#81

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I saw the Clone Wars this weekend, and Anakin seduced a queen... And it was so much better than the stalkerish rubbish from Ep II. Even the acting was leagues better than Ep II.


#82

@Li3n

@Li3n

sixpackshaker said:
I saw the Clone Wars this weekend, and Anakin seduced a queen... And it was so much better than the stalkerish rubbish from Ep II. Even the acting was leagues better than Ep II.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's funny how him acting like an asshole to impress an evil slaver comes off way better then whatever the hell that was that happened in Attack of the Clones...


#83

Adam

Adammon

I, er, attained a copy of the two trilogies on Bluray and started watching the high point of the new trilogy with Revenge of the Sith.

No, just no. The whole prequel set has not aged well at all. The Bioware cinematics have more energy, pizzazz and STAR WARS!!! excitement to them than these $100 million pieces of excrement. There is nothing noteworthy anywhere to suggest that these were anything but bloated pieces of commercial crap put together by a bloated piece of director crap.

High points:
Re-starting Liam Neeson's career
Ewan McGregor doing a pretty good Sir Alec impersonation
Duel of the Fates, Across the Stars, Battle of the Heroes - all great additions to the John Williams Best of Soundtrack
Darth Maul - character, fight (And then George Lucas kills him off)

Low Points:
Wasted Jedi
Jar Jar
Captain Tanaka(?)
Padme's character
Hayden Christiansen
The whole story
Not lining up with the existing mythology
Poor acting
Humdrum action


It actually made me sad watching it.


#84

checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Adammon said:
I, er, attained a copy of the two trilogies on Bluray and started watching the high point of the new trilogy with Revenge of the Sith.
Click to expand...
Its so sad that this is true.


#85

@Li3n

@Li3n

And speaking of Geroge:

When I told Lucas that Spielberg had accepted the blame for nuking the fridge, he looked stunned. "It's not true," he said. "He's trying to protect me."

In fact, it was Spielberg who "didn't believe" the scene. In response to Spielberg's fears, Lucas put together a whole nuking-the-fridge dossier. It was about six inches thick, he indicated with his hands. Lucas said that if the refrigerator were lead-lined, and if Indy didn't break his neck when the fridge crashed to earth, and if he were able to get the door open, he could, in fact, survive. "The odds of surviving that refrigerator -- from a lot of scientists -- are about 50-50," Lucas said.
Click to expand...
Now that's a dossier i'd like to see...

Coz really, my 1st thought when i saw that scene wasn't about the nuke, but about how the fridge hit the dirt way too hard for him not to end up a paraplegic.


#86

Frank

Frankie Williamson

More on him, he's apparently blaming the current snubbing of Red Tails on racism and his own public perception.

I'd like to say:

George, I am personally (currently) obsessed with flying in general. I play WW2 flight sims with an expensive joystick setup. I think Red Tails looks terrible and marketing a WW2 story about the Tuskegee airmen with dubstep miiiiiiiiiiiiight have been a shitty move.



#87

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

An entire fighter wing some of the best educated men in the country at the time... and that is the trailer for them?


#88

ElJuski

ElJuski

Or the fact that this is the White Guilt Black People Feel Good movie this year.


#89

Espy

Espy

ElJuski said:
Or the fact that this is the White Guilt Black People Feel Good movie this year.
Click to expand...
Maybe they should just go ahead and call it "The Help 2".


#90

ElJuski

ElJuski

Oh shit, I forgot The Help came out this summer.


#91

@Li3n

@Li3n

Frankie Williamson said:
More on him, he's apparently blaming the current snubbing of Red Tails on racism and his own public perception.

I'd like to say:

George, I am personally (currently) obsessed with flying in general. I play WW2 flight sims with an expensive joystick setup. I think Red Tails looks terrible and marketing a WW2 story about the Tuskegee airmen with dubstep miiiiiiiiiiiiight have been a shitty move.

Click to expand...
Wow, that looks incredibly awful, and nothing like what Lucas showed when he went on the Daily Show...

Marketing fail!


#92

PatrThom

PatrThom

Eh, looks like he is taking his bat and ball and going home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/magazine/george-lucas-red-tails.html?_r=1
“I’m retiring,” Lucas said. “I’m moving away from the business, from the company, from all this kind of stuff.”

He was careful to leave himself an out clause for a fifth “Indiana Jones” film. But otherwise, “Red Tails” will be the last blockbuster Lucas makes. “Once this is finished, he’s done everything he’s ever wanted to do,” says Rick McCallum, who has been producing Lucas’s films for more than 20 years. “He will have completed his task as a man and a filmmaker.”

Lucas has decided to devote the rest of his life to what cineastes in the 1970s used to call personal films. They’ll be small in scope, esoteric in subject and screened mostly in art houses. They’ll be like the experimental movies Lucas made in the 1960s, around the time he was at U.S.C. film school, when he recorded clouds moving over the desert and made a movie based on an E. E. Cummings poem. During that period, Lucas assumed he would spend his career on the fringes. Then “Star Wars” happened — and though Lucas often mused about it, he never committed himself to the uncommercial world until now.
Click to expand...
--Patrick


#93

@Li3n

@Li3n

So he's going back to a time when he made good movies...


#94

Azurephoenix

Azurephoenix

But the real question is... will he keep tweaking the Star Wars movies and be a big hypocrite about it?


#95

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

And the geek world cheered in unison "And don't come back!"


#96

Tress

Tress

Shegokigo said:
And the geek world cheered in unison "And don't come back!"
Click to expand...


#97

evilmike

evilmike

George Lucas officially loses his mind (via The Hollywood Reporter):

THR: People can get fanatical about the movies — how does that make you feel? The puppet vs. CGI Yoda ruckus, and the who-shot-first, Han Solo or Greedo furor come to mind.
Lucas: Well, it’s not a religious event. I hate to tell people that. It’s a movie, just a movie. The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down.
Click to expand...


#98

Dei

Dei

Wait wait wait wait.
So he said that Gredo shot first all along and we just didn't notice? lolololololol


#99

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

That whole interview is a huge middle finger to all the fans of the movies.


#100

Just Me

Just Me

Shegokigo said:
That whole interview is a huge middle finger to all the fans of the movies.
Click to expand...
Like almost everything he has done in the last 20 years.


#101

Dave

Dave

Han shooting first makes sense for the character because he was very smart. He knew Greedo was going to try and ice him and figured it was always better to fire first in close quarters. Not firing first is just dumb. Greedo all but says that he's going to kill Han right there and then. Han has nothing to lose by firing and nothing to gain by waiting.


#102

Tress

Tress

I'm always amazed when people lie so much they begin to believe it themselves. I think that's what happened here.


#103

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

In the inevitable event that Lucas dies, what are the odds of someone finally saying, "FINE! Here. Remastered HD copies of the original, original, original trilogy with not a single thing changed!"

Then again, maybe Lucas will have it in his will to have everything with the name Star Wars destroyed just to give one last fuck you to the fans.


#104

Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
In the inevitable event that Lucas dies, what are the odds of someone finally saying, "FINE! Here. Remastered HD copies of the original, original, original trilogy with not a single thing changed!"

Then again, maybe Lucas will have it in his will to have everything with the name Star Wars destroyed just to give one last fuck you to the fans.
Click to expand...
He won't erase them, he'll tape over them with an all ewok edition.


#105

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

His last contribution to the Star Wars legacy will the Jar Jar Binks Holiday Special.


#106

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Dei said:
Wait wait wait wait.
So he said that Gredo shot first all along and we just didn't notice? lolololololol
Click to expand...

AHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAA... no.


#107

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

There will never be remastered originals because Lucas doesn't think he's wrong about the remakes.


#108

Dei

Dei

Besides the originals were "lost" or something.


#109

figmentPez

figmentPez

evilmike said:
George Lucas officially loses his mind (via The Hollywood Reporter):
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George Lucas You Lying Sack of Shit.


#110

Bowielee

Bowielee

figmentPez said:
George Lucas You Lying Sack of Shit.
Click to expand...
That passage doesn't in any way indicate which of them shot first. Regardless of who shot first, Han never would have had a chance to get to his blaster at all if Greedo hadn't been stupid enough to let him put his hands under the table.


#111

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

The entire premise that Han is a dirty dealer and is redeemed into a hero by the end of the saga is one of the biggest growth stories of that time. For him to go back and say "oh he was a good guy the whole time, just misunderstood" is as bad as the "Nooooo!" added to Vader in the Emperor Toss scene.


#112

ElJuski

ElJuski

Shegokigo said:
The entire premise that Han is a dirty dealer and is redeemed into a hero by the end of the saga is one of the biggest growth stories of that time. For him to go back and say "oh he was a good guy the whole time, just misunderstood" is as bad as the "Nooooo!" added to Vader in the Emperor Toss scene.
Click to expand...
Worse. It completely dismantles the character's motivations while continuing to destroy the charm of the series.

On another note, my co-worker has never seen any of these films and refuses to see them based on some sort of stupid cheeky "i'm different!" sense of self-satisfaction. Couldn't even play into the whole, "WHATTTTT" factor. I just grumpily shook my head.


#113

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Hipsters: Ruining shit for themselves and getting nothing out of it since 19whogivesafuck.


#114

ElJuski

ElJuski

she's not hipster, she's definitely a gamer girl. She's just an idiot for not taking two hours of her life to see one of the most beloved pop-cultural cornerstones of the last forty years.


#115

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ElJuski said:
she's not hipster, she's definitely a gamer girl. She's just an idiot for not taking two hours of her life to see one of the most beloved pop-cultural cornerstones of the last forty years.
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There are hipster gamers. They only play indie games you've never heard of.


#116

figmentPez

figmentPez

Bowielee said:
That passage doesn't in any way indicate which of them shot first. Regardless of who shot first, Han never would have had a chance to get to his blaster at all if Greedo hadn't been stupid enough to let him put his hands under the table.
Click to expand...
I think what's telling is that it doesn't mention Greedo firing at all, and the reaction of other patrons to Han turning Greedo into a greasy stain is that they expected such behavior from him. He wasn't a good guy shockingly pushed too far, he was a ruthless smuggler who shot a bounty hunter because that was the surest way to keep on living.


#117

ElJuski

ElJuski

also the script as its written.


#118

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

That really is it. When the whole Greedo shooting first thing first erupted, I had no recollection of Greedo even shooting, because it never fucking happened.

Not a damn thing Lucas says can be trusted. As we've seen in the prequel trilogy, any semblance of understanding for story-telling and character development has been discarded, if he ever had it at all. He just wants to see flashy lights and spaceships, made by people more talented than he'll ever be.


#119

strawman

strawman

This sounds like the longest courtroom scene ever of, "Ok timmy, show me on the movie where the bad director touched you..."

Does it deserve this much angst?

He doesn't even have to be lying - it was well over 30 years ago! The story has evolved in his mind, his memories are tainted by more recent beliefs and desires, etc. He may have meant it the way he's saying it now, or he may have changed to the point where he believes it now, but he believed differently then.

If he hadn't made the movie until today, and released it with the changes you're complaining about, you wouldn't be complaining about this particular bit - there are doubtless lots of other character inconsistencies to whine about, this one is pretty minimal.

Besides, who says Han has changed at all? If anything he found a pretty face, and aligned himself with the more profitable side. He doesn't need to have changed at all, because guys will do stupid things for girls even if they are smugglers that cut and run when the heat is on.


#120

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

It's not angst; I just don't like that he's under-cutting it by saying "I meant it this way all along." I say that's bullshit. Nothing more.

If anything, the whole "I'm done with Star Wars" thing would merit some angst, because that's also not true. It's just less about Lucas lying to people and himself, and more about how when he decides he's not done, he's going to tweak them some more. As you said, his memories are tainted by more recent beliefs. That's why he keeps changing things--the whole "original vision" is a pile of crap. There isn't one. He only sees what he feels like seeing at the moment. At the moment now, he's done with Star Wars. Just watch as the other films go into 3D releases in theaters and 3D televisions become more popular. He'll have his fingers in Star Wars again.


#121

Just Me

Just Me

stienman said:
If he hadn't made the movie until today, and released it with the changes you're complaining about, you wouldn't be complaining about this particular bit - there are doubtless lots of other character inconsistencies to whine about, this one is pretty minimal.
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If he would do this movie today it would be just one more SFX-crapfest among many and I wouldn't watch it. A Star wars movie of today would just not be what the Star wars movie from 1977 was back then.

Like it was siad earlier in this one or in another thread: the prequels were badly done movies and if they hadn't been labeled with Star Wars nobody would talk about them anymore.


#122

strawman

strawman

Just Me said:
If he would do this movie today it would be just one more SFX-crapfest among many and I wouldn't watch it.
Click to expand...

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Star wars is beloved because of its amazing (at the time) SFX, and because it was a break from science fiction movies of that era.

Not because it's a well acted, scripted, shot, or plotted film.

Please don't start claiming that Star Wars was anything more than a blockbuster that happened to hit the perfect audience at the perfect time with a reasonably good story, shooting, etc, and fantastic effects.

It would be lost now only because many people saw, within that film, the formula for what we now call "the summer blockbuster." You can mix decent actors, with decent story, an mediocre script/plot, and fantastic effects and make millions of dollars.

So you are correct - if he made it today, it would blend in with every other movie of the summer blockbuster genre that it largely created.

And it would compare poorly.


#123

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

stienman said:
Besides, who says Han has changed at all? If anything he found a pretty face, and aligned himself with the more profitable side. He doesn't need to have changed at all, because guys will do stupid things for girls even if they are smugglers that cut and run when the heat is on.
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Your entire point, completely nullfied by the fact that he nearly killed himself to help Luke and the Rebellion finish off the Death Star. If he was "truly the evil scoundral" the whole time no amount of "pretty face" would have been worth his most likely death.

Also, "Maybe the story evolved in his head"? Now you're just taking an opposite viewpoint to be contridictory. Might as well sit here and and start talking about how any mass murderer wasn't guilty of being evil and we should have seen things from his point of view. *eyeroll*


#124

Espy

Espy

stienman said:
This sounds like the longest courtroom scene ever of, "Ok timmy, show me on the movie where the bad director touched you..."

Does it deserve this much angst?
Click to expand...
http://comedians.jokes.com/louis-c-k-/videos/uncensored---louis-c-k----white-people-problems


#125

strawman

strawman

Shegokigo said:
no amount of "pretty face" would have been worth his most likely death.
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I disagree that this couldn't possibly be true. She put her life on the line. He struggled with the decision, and ultimately he did too. What is his motivation? Maybe he experienced a change of heart. Maybe he'd grown close enough to his new friends that he couldn't imagine not putting himself out there as well, Maybe he was head over heals in love with her and knew he'd have no chance if he didn't put his life on the line. Maybe a little from all the above.

I'm not going to argue that this is actually what occurred, I'm simply saying that it's one possible interpretation, even though it's less likely than the crusty-on-the-outside-soft-in-the-middle bad guy redeems himself and joins the good side when the opportunity presented itself.

Either way, the han-shoots-first or greedo-shoots-first is not the lynchpin for Han's character that so many people are making it out to be. It's simply the most visible change which reflects his character more than all the other changes (the discussion with Jaba in the hangar, for instance).


#126

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

stienman said:
Not because it's a well ... shot, or plotted film.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa, you might want to take a break from how many times you can be wrong today.

I'm not going to defend the original Star Wars for its script or acting (though I would defend Empire's script in parts), but it was well shot and well plotted. The plot is simple, but it's actually impressive watching it today how well the scenes fold onto each other and build toward the climax. There's a rhythm to it that you don't find in a lot of action movies and it's entirely possible that it's not something you can appreciate (my wife is that way--she doesn't see story structure; events are just clouds passing over in a line), but that's what plotting is.

On shooting, that's less to the movie's credit and more to the time period. If Star Wars was made today, it would likely not have much in the way of atmosphere, because most action movies these days don't bother with such a thing. This is likely an aspect of real sets/locations vs CGI, but I'm not gonna get into that. Star Wars built atmosphere because movies were allowed to take the time to do that back then. The cinematography wasn't brilliant by any means, but it was patient and good.

I'm not sure why you're intent on sweeping Star Wars under a nostalgia blanket as something that can only be appreciated if you saw it already. You can study the film and pick apart what was done well and what wasn't. Beneath the phenomenon, the nostalgia, and the movies it inspired, there is a legitimately good movie at the core.


#127

strawman

strawman

Quotemander Prime said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, you might want to take a break from how many times you can be wrong today.
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I thought I had purchased 50 "be wrong" tokens for today, but I see now that I'm short, and what's more is that the accounting for taste bank is closed for the day already.

sigh...

Guess it's back to posting factual, objectively verifiable information with sources for the rest of the day for me.


#128

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

stienman said:
Guess it's back to posting factual, objectively verifiable information with sources for the rest of the day for me.
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That's how we roll... in the political sub-forum.

I was trying to be humorous, not shoot you down. It just seemed sudden of you to pull the nostalgia generalization, as if Star Wars has no merits as a film, only for cultural impact.


#129

strawman

strawman

Quotemander Prime said:
That's how we roll... in the political sub-forum.

I was trying to be humorous, not shoot you down. It just seemed sudden of you to pull the nostalgia generalization, as if Star Wars has no merits as a film, only for cultural impact.
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Meh, I'm not in the conversation to win, it's an interesting one, but it's not important. I didn't say it wasn't a legitimately good movie all on its own, I was trying to say that if it were made today, as-is (writing, acting, cinemtography, etc) with simply updated SFX, it wouldn't really be any better (or worse) than any other successful blockbuster today, and that it wasn't a great movie. Good, but not great.

I don't watch movies critically though, and quite frankly I love the star wars series. I also really enjoy the transformers series, though. I can look at both and know that one is better than the other, but still enjoy both of them.

I look at star wars and compare it to, say, The Lord of the Rings (hey, compare an epic series against an epic series - it's fair), and I can state definitively that star wars is not even in the same league.

Star wars does not compare favorably with today's great films - it is considered great for many reasons, and nostalgia plays a big part in that.


#130

Tress

Tress

Hey you guys, you're all wrong. It turns out that the original trilogy sucked, and the prequels were waaaaay better.

The important difference is that the prequels were apparently nuanced political commentary about how stupid and evil President Bush was (totally risky and unheard of), and the original trilogy was, like, so lame.


#131

Steve

Steve

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-3d-george-lucas-289377

For Lucas, (re releasing the movies) was never just about finding another way to exploit the same pictures that have already been in theaters several times (grossing more than $4.4 billion in worldwide box office since 1977) and on home video (where they have raked in more than $3.8 billion).
The biggest reason to do it, Lucas told The Hollywood Reporter recently, was to give a new generation an opportunity to see the movies on the big screen in a theater, the way he always intended.

The reason why many may not have liked the movies is because they weren't seen as Lucas intended. Now they are. Enjoy.


#132

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/why-star-wars-prequels-better-original-trilogy-160300514.html

The argument that the prequels were better movies....

:rofl:


#133

Null

Null

That is complete bullshit.


#134

ElJuski

ElJuski

can I link the same link one more time on this page?


#135

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/why-star-wars-prequels-better-original-trilogy-160300514.html

You mean that one?


#136

ElJuski

ElJuski

if this was five years ago that would have been a Rick Roll.


#137

Bowielee

Bowielee

What I love is how Star Wars fans act like the movies are some form of Heroin.

Your best way to object to this stuff is to... oh, I don't know... not go and see them multiple times?

It makes me laugh when people go on and on about how horrible the prequels are and when you ask how many times they've seen them, they're like 5-6.

Really? Did they think that their opinion would magically change?


#138

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

That is funny. I saw Episode I and II once each, one in theaters and the other on TV. I think Episode II was the worst.

I admit I saw Episode III a couple times and it's the only prequel one I own. Haven't watched it in a while. I did like it, but RedLetterMedia kind of ruined it for me. That's okay; I want to watch his videos again more than I want to watch the prequels.


#139

Mathias

Mathias

George Lucas wants to re-release shit to make sure little imps and their parents go pay a movie ticket ( or buy a dvd), so every two years or so the Star Wars brand toys get new life breathe into them and fly off the shelves. Don't believe any other garbage he spouts out about his "artistic vision". He doesn't give two shits about his movies and the art behind film making. He has a cash cow that he's been milking the teats off of since 1979. Don't fucking dare tell me you wouldn't do the same.

I think the only, ONLY, ONLY creator of anything that never sold out is Bill Waterson.



#140

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Well you watch them because you can still watch crap blow up....


#141

Mathias

Mathias

sixpackshaker said:
Well you watch them because you can still watch crap blow up....
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The only time I really watch any Star Wars movies anymore is when they're on TBS.


#142

Bowielee

Bowielee

Mathias said:
I think the only, ONLY, ONLY creator of anything that never sold out is Bill Waterson.
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OR, artists who's work only became popular posthumously. Of course, there's no telling what amount of selling out they would have done had it happened when they were alive.

I never really understood the whole selling out thing. If you create a program, or improve a system at work and they pay you well for that, it's an achievement. But if you make music, movies, or books that do well, you're selling out.


#143

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Bowielee said:
What I love is how Star Wars fans act like the movies are some form of Heroin.

Your best way to object to this stuff is to... oh, I don't know... not go and see them multiple times?

It makes me laugh when people go on and on about how horrible the prequels are and when you ask how many times they've seen them, they're like 5-6.

Really? Did they think that their opinion would magically change?
Click to expand...
Same here, hence why I've only seen the prequels twice each and the "remade" originals once.


#144

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I admit, I only saw the re-fuck of Episode IV. Didn't bother with the re-fucks of Empire and Jedi. For all I know, they're an improvement.

But I doubt it.


#145

Just Me

Just Me

I've seen each prequel once, on opening night. That was enough, thanks.

I saw the original trilogy in its unaltered version only once too, back in 1987 with the release of Jedi. I went and watched the special edition in 1997 just because it was Star wars and I was young and curious. I liked some of the changes that were purely for the optics (for example the new vistas of Bespin with more open sky and windows insted of blank walls) and even back then I disliked the changes to the story, aka Han shot first!
My favorite shot added though was the bantha herd that can be seen when Jabba's barge approaches the pit ofCarkoon.

I just wonder why George Lucas didn't put make-up (or CGI) on Hayden Christensen for the removal of Lord Vaders helmet in Jedi when he decided to exchange the venerable smiling Sebastian Shaw as a ghost with the wooden boy wonder wearing a menacing grin.


#146

Bowielee

Bowielee

Really, the only added scene that I didn't like was the Hayden Christensen force ghost. It makes no sense for him to be there. There's no reason he should look like he did before turning to the Dark Side, like at all.

As for the prequels, I'll fully admit it. I thought they were fun. The only things that irk me are the really glaring continuity errors (yes, I know there are many. the primary of which is the shoehorning in of C3PO and R2D2) and the horrible acting of the actors playing Anikin.

Quite frankly, they never would have ever been able to come close to living up to everyone's expectations. I enjoy them for what they are, not what I imagined them to be.
Also, if the target audience Lucas was going for was kids, he certainly hit it. Kid's fucking love the prequels.


#147

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

That's just it, kids weren't his primary audience until he became the money grubbing shit eater he is today. His original trilogy was meant for the smarter movie goer. The Sci-Fi geek. It wasn't for the "masses", he didn't "dumb it down" for the audience by having everything spoken/spelled out for the audience like the Prequels do. The reason the Prequels piss off anyone who enjoyed the original is because we can see that massive shift from "Telling a Sci-Fi space epic" to "Sell more toys/shirts/remakes".


#148

Bowielee

Bowielee

I'll just say it...

The main reason that Star Wars was so epic at the time was because of all the new special effects it showcased.


#149

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

I'll just say it...

The main reason that Star Wars has remained such a major Sci-Fi icon till the changes got to be too much was because of the epic story and strong characters that developed and grew and changed through major trials that basically created a genre on it's own.


#150

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Star Wars didn't create any genres.


#151

Bowielee

Bowielee

Don't get me wrong, I've been a Star Wars fan since I was a wee little one.

It was a revolutionary film. 90% of that revolution was the special effects. I'm not saying that the original trilogy wasn't superior to the prequels, because that would be ridiculous. But a great majority of the reason Star Wars wowed people so much was because it had huge epic space battles that were never seen before.

I think the thing that people dislike the most about the prequels, frankly is the pussification of Darth Vader (which again, is not helped by the horrible, horrible acting of those portraying him.)


#152

Frank

Frankie Williamson

If you took the DNA of Tom Hanks, Jimmy Stewart, Humphrey Bogart, Henry Fonda, Cary Grant, Paul Newman, Spencer Tracy, Daniel Day Lewis, Gene Hackman, Charlie Chapman, Dustin Hoffman and Lawrence fucking Olivier and made some sort of supreme acting Serpentor out of them in the roll of Anakin in episodes 2 and 3, you still couldn't get a good performance with George's directing and the God awful script.

Just my opinion there.


#153

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

Frankie Williamson said:
Star Wars didn't create any genres.
Click to expand...
You tell yourself that.
Bowielee said:
But a great majority of the reason Star Wars wowed people so much was because it had huge epic space battles that were never seen before.
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I don't remember disagreeing, I remember adding to that quote.

Bowielee said:
I think the thing that people dislike the most about the prequels, frankly is the pussification of Darth Vader (which again, is not helped by the horrible, horrible acting of those portraying him.)
Click to expand...
Pussification of Boba Fett, showing the wise old Obi Wan as a young adult idiot, giving us only 1 Episode of amazing Liam Qui Gon, destroying ALOT of continuity set up by the previous movies and on and on and on.


#154

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Space Fantasy? Space Opera? What genre did it create?

I guess you could credit it with the Kurusawa in Space genre, but then you're going deep into sub genre silliness like hardcore music fans.


#155

Bowielee

Bowielee

Frankie Williamson said:
If you took the DNA of Tom Hanks, Jimmy Stewart, Humphrey Bogart, Henry Fonda, Cary Grant, Paul Newman, Spencer Tracy, Daniel Day Lewis, Gene Hackman, Charlie Chapman, Dustin Hoffman and Lawrence fucking Olivier and made some sort of supreme acting Serpentor out of them in the roll of Anakin in episodes 2 and 3, you still couldn't get a good performance with George's directing and the God awful script.

Just my opinion there.
Click to expand...
That is the best GI Joe reference I've ever heard in my life.

And you are right. Natalie Portman is one of my favorite actresses and if you went by the prequels, that would not be the impression you'd get.

Though, I have seen Hayden Christiansen in other stuff, and he still sucked.

Also, Shego, I'm glad you brought up Boba Fett. I was going to make a point about him earlier, but deleted it.

He's a great example of how much the original Trilogy is really style over substance. Boba Fett has, what 4 lines in the entire Trilogy? Yet, ask people to name their favorite Star Wars character, and I'll bet you a large chunk of them will say Boba Fett.


#156

Mathias

Mathias

Shegokigo said:
I'll just say it...

The main reason that Star Wars has remained such a major Sci-Fi icon till the changes got to be too much was because of the epic story and strong characters that developed and grew and changed through major trials that basically created a genre on it's own.
Click to expand...
The reason to see Star War in 1979 -1983 was because the special effects were amazing. People saw these movies as kids and teenagers and took it with them well into the late 80's and early 90's. Right now is the new generations turn, but the problem is the special effects aren't amazing anymore. Was the acting better in the originals than the prequels? Was the character development better fleshed out? Certainly, but Citizen Kane Star Wars is not! People went to see Star Wars because word on the street was it looked real as hell compared to other sci-fi of the time.
Added at: 08:18
Shegokigo said:
That's just it, kids weren't his primary audience until he became the money grubbing shit eater he is today. His original trilogy was meant for the smarter movie goer. The Sci-Fi geek. It wasn't for the "masses", he didn't "dumb it down" for the audience by having everything spoken/spelled out for the audience like the Prequels do. The reason the Prequels piss off anyone who enjoyed the original is because we can see that massive shift from "Telling a Sci-Fi space epic" to "Sell more toys/shirts/remakes".
Click to expand...
No it wasn't. The originals were made specifically for ages 10- 25. That's who went. And it was not for the sci-fi geek either. Everyone loved Star Wars because of the special effects. It was the Jurassic Park of the late 70's. George Lucas ALWAYS had toys in mind. He let go many of the profit rights to the movies themselves to make sure he made a ton of profit off of merch sales. Do you even remember the early 80's? Star Wars toys were fucking EVERYWHERE.


#157

ElJuski

ElJuski

I gotta admit, Jurassic Park of the 70's seems pretty spot on. It was supposed to be a shlocky fun space serial, and it was a well done shlocky fun space serial.


#158

Mathias

Mathias

Frankie Williamson said:
Space Fantasy? Space Opera? What genre did it create?

I guess you could credit it with the Kurusawa in Space genre, but then you're going deep into sub genre silliness like hardcore music fans.
Click to expand...
Star Wars is a Space Opera. Hardly the first one. Star Wars is heavily influence by Flash Gordon etc...


#159

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

I've shown the original, unchanged Star Wars to kids and they loved it. Would an adult have the same experience? I have no idea. The problem with kids is that they'll generally like anything if it's remotely related to their interests. I know that most Godzilla movies are shit, but I still love the big guy and I'll gladly watch Godzilla vs Mothra when it's available to me. That's what I grew up with.

But I still maintain Star Wars has its own merits as a good movie. Maybe it lasted because of the special effects--I'd say the imagination put forth with those special effects was a big help. I'm sure we've all seen movies that have tremendous special effects budgets and great explosions that are entirely forgettable. But in case, it has a good story. If it's doing the Hero of a Thousand Faces story, then I think it does that much better than most movies. I'm sick of today's heroes cut from that cloth. "You were chosen." "You're the hero of the prophecy." "I'm only 12 years old." "It's your destiny!" "Why?" "Because we said so!" If I had to give the prequels any credit, it's that the chosen one turned out to be chosen for an evil purpose. I prefer that things worked out in the favor of Luke assuming the hero mantle rather than Obi-Wan or R2D2 coming up to him and saying "You're the hero that was foretold!"

As I said on the last page, part of what else makes it good is that it's dated; i.e. not made for the ADD generation--until Lucas said that wasn't good enough, anyway.

The funny thing for me is, I don't even care about Star Wars that much. I probably wouldn't even own the movies if Lucas hadn't made it a point that the original versions were going to be erased from existence if he had his way and I felt the need to preserve those versions in case I ever wanted to watch them again. I've owned Jedi for 3 years, but I still haven't watched it in 16 years.


#160

ElJuski

ElJuski

I mean, the argument of "just because it's made for children doesn't mean it can't be diligently done" has been made millions of millions of time, and so many in these forums alone, its hardly worth going into again. But yes, the original movies, the latter two, by the way, helmed by different directors, are competent enough to withstand as pop-culture facets based on characters and charm as well as fancy special-effects. Somewhere along the line, however, Lucas must have forgotten that all effects and no moxie make for a boring movie, indeed.

I mean, not to mention the inherent flaws of prequels, and the fact that the Star Wars universe, once upon a time, had a little bit of mystery and mystique in it, where you could imagine this vast galaxy far, far, away, and all the creatures that lived within in, instead of having that whole universe parsed out, broken down, and wookiepedia'd for you, inch by fucking inch.


#161

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

That every single living thing you see in the cantina has a back story is insane.


#162

Mathias

Mathias

Quotemander Prime said:
That every single living thing you see in the cantina has a back story is insane.
Click to expand...
Really? Holy hell!


#163

ElJuski

ElJuski

Quotemander Prime said:
That every single living thing you see in the cantina has a back story is insane.
Click to expand...
The whole thing became too big, and the fans too rabid, that the whole damn adventure got cannibalized. Although I find it funny that Lucas and Co. can make the smallest little bits of Star Wars minutiae but can't get big things right, like "this guy shot this guy."


#164

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Mathias said:
Really? Holy hell!
Click to expand...
Tales from Mos Eisley Cantina

And there's more that came out of the card game apparently. And then, a woman walks across the screen during the shot when Luke is selling his speeder. All you see is her legs--nothing else, and no lines in the movie. She has a story too.

And then anything Star Wars related has to point out the settings and places from the movies as if they were the sites of holy relics, when in the movies those just happen to be the planets certain events occur on, not the center of the universe. I forget which Star Wars game I was playing and the characters acted like capturing the site of the Mos Eisley cantina was going to change the course of the war or some shit like that.

I remember when Hellboy II came out people were saying the troll market outdid Mos Eisley, and I have to agree. That place was big, and deep, and there's no way we'll ever get a compendium of All You Ever Wanted to Know About the Troll Market. Some things are best left to the imagination. That's probably one of the reasons Boba Fett was so popular.

EDIT: And thanks to Mathias in the other thread for reminding me--a great example of ruining Star Wars mystery is the midichlorians.


#165

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Mathias said:
Star Wars is a Space Opera. Hardly the first one. Star Wars is heavily influence by Flash Gordon etc...
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Exactly the point I was trying to get across. Star Wars is an homage to serials like Flash Gordon or to pulp like Lensmen, it didn't create any genres.


#166

Shegokigo

Shegokigo

This thread is getting hilarious.


#167

checkeredhat

checkeredhat

In every year of animation, we studied the original Star Wars trilogy in our story classes as an excellent example of storytelling, and especially the Hero's Journey.
We studied the new trilogy as an excellent example of poor storytelling and performance, and looked closely at Jar Jar Binks escpecially for a laundry list of things not to do in performance animation.


#168

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Care to give us any Jar Jar highlight, Hat ol' bean?


#169

checkeredhat

checkeredhat

It boils down to a lack of character motivation in his movements. He's often made to do ridiculous things for "humour" but the character has no reason to do them. Then there's overly wacky and broad movements which are no doubt there to add life into the lifeless performance that tends to come from motion capture but are again given no motivation. We also talked about his design being problematic- nature would not evolve a creature like the gungans, ears like theis serve no purpose in an aquatic creature reliant on eye sight, for example. Things like that detract from what makes the Gungans unique, and thereby make it harder to imagine how they might move.


#170

ElJuski

ElJuski

also he's a stereotype


#171

checkeredhat

checkeredhat

Stereotypes are fine-and actually encouraged- in animation, though racial stereotypes are still frowned upon. Strangely enough, I don't remember our acting teacher bringing up the racism in Episode 1.


#172

ElJuski

ElJuski

Out of curiosity, how are they encouraged? Is it an audience-reaction-expectation sort of thing?


#173

checkeredhat

checkeredhat

It creates simplicity in design. It allows the viewer to immediately recognize a character's archetype just from a visual, which allows the story to move along more quickly. And for some reason audiences just don't seem to mind as much in animation.


#174

ElJuski

ElJuski

Yeah, I find that really interesting. Maybe because animation can push more boundaries visually with design, and therefore, the archetypes are used to give the viewer a sense of focus? Makes me wish I had a course like that in my undergrad :(


#175

Steve

Steve

I don't think the reason the Star Wars trilogy was a success was due solely to special effects. It had so many things working for it. A classic soundtrack, interesting characters, a simple but effective plot of good versus evil, a fun summer movie and a communal event. There have been many movies with amazing special effects that any other elements that make a movie good and they failed miserably. Even the movies that were successful were looked with disdain by the public (Spiderman 3). There's a reason people look at the original movies with fondness decades after their original release. They were no Godfather by any means but they are enjoyable movies. How many of you remember how you felt after your first viewing of "The Empire Strikes Back"? I couldn't believe they'd end the movie with C3PO blown apart, Han frozen and taken by a bounty hunger, Luke with a severed hand and finding out Vader is his father. Lucas did with those movies exactly what he was aiming for. A fun trilogy that harkened back to the days of his youth of serial adventures.


#176

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

The father thing in Empire wasn't Lucas's idea, by the way.

Though I can't believe I didn't mention the soundtrack myself. Derp.


#177

Mathias

Mathias

Oh man, I love how Lucas claims to have had this grand plan.

The whole Skywalker family shit was totally slapped together as they were moving along in the trilogy. Luke and Leia were totally getting it on before Return of the Jedi.


#178

evilmike

evilmike

If Banksy reviewed movies...


#179

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I just wonder how many of us paid to see this in 3D but will not admit to it...


#180

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I didn't. And won't. As I said before, Lucas has gotten enough of my money.


#181

Dei

Dei

I took my kids to see it. The movie was made for their age so I am not ashamed. :p


#182

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Nope, didn't and won't see it. Instead my wife and I watched the Red Letter Media review of Episode I last night. Far more entertaining.


#183

Null

Null

I didn't, and won't.


#184

Just Me

Just Me

No more Star wars on the big screen for me, thanks. Not till the original comes back.
And a special NO! to more prequel stuff, don't even own them on DVD.


#185

Frank

Frankie Williamson

I barely liked the originals.

Boom, said it.


#186

Tress

Tress

Frankie Williamson said:
I barely liked the originals.

Boom, said it.
Click to expand...


#187

Piotyr

Piotyr

I admit it, I watch Phantom Menace because the lightsaber fight in the last 20 minutes is just damned cool.


#188

HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Ok, time for real truth and honesty folks.

Do you enjoy the original movies more than the toys?

if yes, nod
if no, do a backflip


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