[Gaming] Why are good super hero games so hard to come by?

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Frank

Frank

And I don't mean Batman: Arkham whatever (they are excellent games, I'm not debating that), because as awesome as Batman is, he doesn't have super powers. What I mean are games that make you feel like a super being that actually play well. The Spider-Man games have been lacking for a long time and despite usually having good swinging, they fail pretty much everywhere else. Superman games don't even need mentioning. I'm sure some would cite super hero MMOs like Champions, City of Heroes or DCUO but those games are basically worlds entirely populated by super heroes (in the case of DCUO, literally) and it kind of takes the specialness out of it when everyone is one. Hell, it's original IP superhero games like Infamous or (sort of) Crackdown that come closest to actually making the player feel like a super hero.

Why is it so hard for game developers to make a good (great, excellent even) super hero game?
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Well, Hulk: Ultimate Destruction made you feel like the goddamn hulk. And very similar, Prototype (haven't played the sequel) made you feel like a super human. I wouldn't say hero, because you are basically a walking monster and bystanders are just gonna die no matter what, but they were still awesome games.
 
Frank

Frank

Ravenpoe said:
Well, Hulk: Ultimate Destruction made you feel like the goddamn hulk. And very similar, Prototype (haven't played the sequel) made you feel like a super human. I wouldn't say hero, because you are basically a walking monster and bystanders are just gonna die no matter what, but they were still awesome games.
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I hated prototype because of that exact problem. The story has as you as this conflicted, attempting to be sympathetic guy while you can't actually play the game without murdering 40000 people every 20 seconds. It's like GTA4 trying to make people feel anything for Niko Belic, who is by all means one of the biggest pieces of shit on Earth.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
I liked prototype. I liked eating the people. And it made me feel "super." Just putting that out there.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Fundamentally, the reason is because it's hard to challenge a super hero without ramping up the conflict significantly... at which point, why even make a game about super heroes if everyone you fight is going to be able to hurt you? To make a good super hero game, you really shouldn't be focusing on fighting villains as the major force of gameplay... you should be focusing on using your powers to save people.

Oddly enough, I just got done playing Lego Batman 2: DC Heroes Unite and it's the only time I ever felt "super" as Superman. I was utterly invincible so fighting was pointless, but I could fly around and save dozens of people using my heat vision, super strength, and super breath. Even better, anytime I took to the air the Superman Movie music played, which only enhanced the epicness of flying around saving people.
 
mikerc

mikerc

Part of it is that licensed characters have their powersets designed for comics or whatever & they might not transfer well to computer games. How do you make a Superman game that doesn't involve essentially playing in God mode for instance? Likewise how do you build a game around Green Lantern's powers? Or the Flash's? How would Daredevil's radar sense be utilized in game?

Original IP games can build their character's powers around the game instead of trying to compromise between established abilities & gameplay.

Although Spider-Man is one of the few comic character's with abilities that should transfer to games quite well and as you said those have been pretty poor lately so there are other issues there.
 
Espy

Espy

I think a good GL game could easily be done. Look at how the God of War games deals with weapons and powers. Something along those lines but based on getting new/better/stronger constructs/abilities as your willpower grows would work great. Make it a sandbox game like Arkham City but IN SPACE. Bam.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

It has been mentioned, but the nature of super heroes and that of video games often clash. In order for the game to be challenging you have to make it so enemies can hurt you, but if enemies can hurt you it makes you feel less "super" and more a regular video game character with some random powers. This is why Superman64 has you spend most of the game flying through rings, because it didn't know what else it could have him do.

To be honest I would be perfectly happy playing a game in which I am nearly a god. I just finished up Saints Row: The Third and decided to play it on casual. I was basically a walking wrecking ball of pain for the dozens of enemies around me, but I had so much fun just going through the story and doing whacky moves and headshots without worrying even an ounce about dying.

P.S. Hulk: Ultimate Destruction is definitely one of the better ones until later on. You start out pretty much invincible throwing and leaping and destroying everything, but then later on every hulkbuster and missile felt like it damaged you a bit to much.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Like AshburnerX said, I think you could make a good Superman game if the focus was shifted to saving the defenseless, and you were judged based upon how many innocents you failed to save.
 
Frank

Frank

GasBandit said:
Like AshburnerX said, I think you could make a good Superman game if the focus was shifted to saving the defenseless, and you were judged based upon how many innocents you failed to save.
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That one Superman game was like that (not 64). Superman didn't have a life bar, but Metropolis itself did and the more bad shit you let happen to it the more the bar went down. It was an interesting idea that wasn't executed all that well.
 
Espy

Espy

Eh, Supes has lots of enemies that physically challenge him. I don't think it would be impossible to make a good supes game.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Yeah, but that's kind of the problem: Unless those are bosses, the question becomes WHY is the game about Superman? He's SUPPOSED to be able to shake off most anything.... if he's not, then why use Superman?
 
Frank

Frank

I could go for Sucker Punch making Infamous style games with different people with different power sets. I think that would be amazing. I really liked Infamous.
 
Espy

Espy

AshburnerX said:
Yeah, but that's kind of the problem: Unless those are bosses, the question becomes WHY is the game about Superman? He's SUPPOSED to be able to shake off most anything.... if he's not, then why use Superman?
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Well, he can shake off a lot, but mix in some really challenging bad guys for fights, some of the "must save" scenarios others have talked about and you end up with a reasonably compelling game I would think.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

For Superman, I've mentioned this idea on multiple occasions:

In terms of powers, make it similar to Prototype. Like Prototype, the first level introduces you to the game, powers, etc, at full power. Then, because of something storyline related (Luthor blocking the sun, kryptonite, ooh maybe Parasite), you lose all your powers except for the ones that the Man of Steel started with back in 1938: super leaping, some invulnerability, considerable strength, no vision powers.

As you progress through the game, you slowly gain your powers back. You could have a power load-out for different breath or vision powers and be able to assign a button for either (R2 for breath powers, L2 for eye powers). And of course, you make it a totally open sandbox game ala Arkham City or the recent Amazing Spider-Man.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

ThatNickGuy said:
For Superman, I've mentioned this idea on multiple occasions: SNIP
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While that is convenient in allowing Superman to be vulnerable, it still begs the question, why then use Superman? When people think Superman they think the flying invulnerable super strong guy that pretty much can't die. Any excuse to make him weaker removes what makes people consider him Superman.

Really, what we need is a Wonder Woman game. :megusta:
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

It's simply accommodating Superman and his mythos to video games, that's all. By playing the game, you earn the abilities that Superman is known for. Maybe instead of jumping, you get flight and earn speed upgrades.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

No, you have the right idea, Nick. It would be annoying when you start, but so long as flight is the second or third power you gain, people will push to get that far.

As for "why use Superman?" that's taking a backwards approach. Asking "why use Superman?" implies that there is a game model made and the developers need to pick a hero for it, when in reality games are made based on ideas and properties--in this case, Superman. So the question is "how do we make a game for Superman?" Nick gave his answer.
 
Espy

Espy

Think of it like how in EVERY damn God of War game Kratos gets de-powered so you can work through all those achievements again.
Same thing. Not a weird gameplay idea at all.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Espy said:
I was waiting for that. Took awhile.
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I wasn't kidding about the picture search. I was trying to find one of RS on a phone. I did not. What I did find was a reasonably professional drawing of Rocksteady and Bebop. As female mutants. Together. Naked.

It was...unexpected.

--Patrick
 
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