The MMO "Elitist" culture, or how I became a "Baddie". (WoW)

[Chibibar]

It would be great if Blizz added some content for casual players that can't devote the entire weekend to a endgame area.

I challenge you to find another MMO in the style of WoW that has a more casual friendly endgame. You won't find one, Blizzard has made it a goal to try make it easier for casual players to raid, they just didn't count on the playerbase being idiots when it came to getting members for a simple Naxx 10 pug.

Speaking from the perspective of a former hardcore raider, Blizzard never really seemed to understand that the problem with the raids was never the difficulty with them, it was the time commitment and that a lot of players, for whatever reason, would not be able to put aside a few hours on a certain night for uninterupted gaming.

This is at least one of the good things about that latest collessum raid in 3.2, it's just boss fights and you can easily swap people in and out with little fuss if someone has to go. Unfortunately i left WoW a few months ago as Blizzard has turned the game into a snoozefest for me in it's casual push. It's too damn easy. None of the bosses in Ulduar gave me the same kind of cheer as anything in the previous expansion because it took just a few attempts to get it right, the sense of an epic accomplishment in downing a raid boss and getting a rare shiny bit of shiny gear has been diluted in the casual push.

Granted, the increased amount of gear going around was always a fair thing, but it doesn't stop it feeling less cool. I was more miffed by the realisation that i would never spend a few weeks trying to crack a boss, we'd get it in a few attempts. Combined with a bunch of other issues, that's why i quit.

Improving the game for casuals is always a good thing. Dumbing it down so thickos can play it will only lead to it's demise.

while it is true that 10 man raid are gear toward casual, I always thought that the 25 version are much harder and gear toward more "elite" players.

I can totally understand when a raid group want X stats for 25, but shouldn't have too high a requirement for a 10 man one.

 

[Hailey Knight]

10-man raids IS casual as far as I'm concerned. I've actually got a shot at seeing Arthas. I do not anticipate this with Illidan until the level height gets so high I can solo him.

 

[SpecialKO]

I do not anticipate this with Illidan until the level height gets so high I can solo him.

A good group could probably 10-man him now.

 

[Idocreating]

It would be great if Blizz added some content for casual players that can't devote the entire weekend to a endgame area.

I challenge you to find another MMO in the style of WoW that has a more casual friendly endgame. You won't find one, Blizzard has made it a goal to try make it easier for casual players to raid, they just didn't count on the playerbase being idiots when it came to getting members for a simple Naxx 10 pug.

Speaking from the perspective of a former hardcore raider, Blizzard never really seemed to understand that the problem with the raids was never the difficulty with them, it was the time commitment and that a lot of players, for whatever reason, would not be able to put aside a few hours on a certain night for uninterupted gaming.

This is at least one of the good things about that latest collessum raid in 3.2, it's just boss fights and you can easily swap people in and out with little fuss if someone has to go. Unfortunately i left WoW a few months ago as Blizzard has turned the game into a snoozefest for me in it's casual push. It's too damn easy. None of the bosses in Ulduar gave me the same kind of cheer as anything in the previous expansion because it took just a few attempts to get it right, the sense of an epic accomplishment in downing a raid boss and getting a rare shiny bit of shiny gear has been diluted in the casual push.

Granted, the increased amount of gear going around was always a fair thing, but it doesn't stop it feeling less cool. I was more miffed by the realisation that i would never spend a few weeks trying to crack a boss, we'd get it in a few attempts. Combined with a bunch of other issues, that's why i quit.

Improving the game for casuals is always a good thing. Dumbing it down so thickos can play it will only lead to it's demise.

while it is true that 10 man raid are gear toward casual, I always thought that the 25 version are much harder and gear toward more "elite" players.

I can totally understand when a raid group want X stats for 25, but shouldn't have too high a requirement for a 10 man one.

10 mans aren't necessarily for casuals. What they ARE however are smaller raids that are easier to get people for.

10 man 3 drake Sartharion was one of the last bosses at launch to be defeated. Whilst 10 mans are easier to field players for, they allow much less room for error.

One guy dies in a 25 man = 1/25 raid loss. One guy dies in 10 man = 1/10 raid loss. There's several bosses in Wrath that are easier to execute on 25 than 10. The 10 man mode is just there for those who have trouble fielding 25 people in the roles you need, which was a common problem for casual players in The Burning Crusade.

 

[Shegokigo]

Hard Mode 10man isn't for casual.

10man regular mode is by far MUCH easier for casuals than 25man regular mode. By a long shot.

 

[XP-Dolphin]

25 man normal mode of the new instance is designed for casual play though too. Ulduar wasn't that bad either in normal modes. The hard modes, both 10 and 25, are more geared towards elite and good players. I think they are viewing normal modes of both sizes for the more casual crowd with the 10/25 distinction for how you want to manage people/friends as a raid and/or guild.

Rexx, I agree in your regular post that asking for a 2300+ score for Naxx10 is very very excessive. First tier stuff and heroics are pretty damn easy and do not in any way require that level of gear. Though on my server, I don't see such strict requirements as often. I took my greens/blues hunter through heroics easily enough when I first leveled him. Though I am not big into alts. My hunter is basically it.

 

[ScytheRexx]

Rexx, I agree in your regular post that asking for a 2300+ score for Naxx10 is very very excessive. First tier stuff and heroics are pretty damn easy and do not in any way require that level of gear. Though on my server, I don't see such strict requirements as often. I took my greens/blues hunter through heroics easily enough when I first leveled him. Though I am not big into alts. My hunter is basically it.

This in the end I feel is my largest problem. I for all intents and purposes can be considered an altaholic. I have various classes all in the high level range, including 5, and soon 6, LvL 80 characters. When the expansion first came around finding PuG raids was not an issue since no one had the gear, so people in order to get the gear, had to go with people in blues and heroic purples. Add on the fact I was raiding Naxx with my main, and everything seemed fine.

Now, however, I am starting to get more of my alts in the high level range, and the "gear score" issue has started to appear to me creating a player driven "ceiling". My hunter and paladin already have decent scores, so I have no issue getting them into raids of most levels, but my rogue and shaman barely are chosen for heroics, and my death knight is never asked for anything these days. One guy actually got angry that my DKs DPS, when my best item I had gotten for her at the time was the Spiked Titansteel Helm, did lower DPS in a REGULAR ToC then the other Death Knight in full Scourgeborne. This is regular ToC, otherwise known as "LOLPURPLES" That seems to be what I find appearing more and more on my server, and I just had to vent my frustration of it.

At the very least, Blizzard has allowed us the chance to get Ulduar quality loot through badges. In the end, anyone, even newcomers, should be able to get Ulduar quality gear over time without even stepping foot inside Ulduar. The issue will go down as I run more groups with my friends. I just noticed that, as a newcomer that may not have that, the environment can get very hostile.

I am thinking of switching servers to one a bit more friendly, I just hope I can get my friends to come with me.

 

[Idocreating]

A "friendly" server in an MMO?

Is that like the Ark of the Covenent, the Holy Grail and Excalibur?

 

[ScytheRexx]

A "friendly" server in an MMO?

Is that like the Ark of the Covenent, the Holy Grail and Excalibur?

No, those are easy to find. I use Excalibur to open my mail in the morning. irate:

 

[KCWM]

As far as I understand it:

Quest Blues and Instance gear gears you for heroics, which gear you for Naxx 10 and 25 (depending on how many purples you have), which gears you for Ulduar 10/25, etc.

It is possible to gear to an Ulduar 10 ready gear score simply by getting purple 200s out of heroics and crafted gear. Now that normal ToC drops purple 200s and can be run multiple times, it's possible to gear up even faster. Heroic ToC drops 219 gear, so it becomes even easier to get Ulduar 10/25 gear.

My wife plays a druid and recently switched her off spec from Resto to Feral (for cat) and by utilizing both heroic and normal ToC, we will be able to gear her up in epic gear except for 4 slots. If I recall correct, those were ring, chest, trinket, and idol. You can get a 200 purple chest by maxing out Ebon Blade rep, you can get a DPS or Tanking ring made by Jewelcrafters, a nice feral staff drops in Heroic Violet Hold, and a purple idol can be bought with 15 badges (herosim). Ulduar 10 ready. I haven't checked the drops in there for other classes, but I assume that something similar is doable.

We regular run normal ToC with 4 people (tank, healer, two DPS) and it takes about 20 minutes a run. Rinse and repeat.

Gear score goes a long way. My guild has raided and carried people with scores under the suggested amount and, let me tell you, as a healer or tank, it makes my job a lot harder when they don't have the gear. Whether it's too little hit, too little mana, or not enough DPS because their haste and/or crit isn't up to speed, it makes it harder. Fights go on longer, healing becomes more frantic. I'm not going to withhold someone because they don't have the gear, but if i had to choose between them and a character who WAS geared, I think the decision is an easy one.

 

[Shegokigo]

And how do you judge someone by their gear score if it's an alt? I think that was one of the original points.

 

[XP-Dolphin]

Rexx, I agree in your regular post that asking for a 2300+ score for Naxx10 is very very excessive. First tier stuff and heroics are pretty damn easy and do not in any way require that level of gear. Though on my server, I don't see such strict requirements as often. I took my greens/blues hunter through heroics easily enough when I first leveled him. Though I am not big into alts. My hunter is basically it.

This in the end I feel is my largest problem. I for all intents and purposes can be considered an altaholic. I have various classes all in the high level range, including 5, and soon 6, LvL 80 characters. When the expansion first came around finding PuG raids was not an issue since no one had the gear, so people in order to get the gear, had to go with people in blues and heroic purples. Add on the fact I was raiding Naxx with my main, and everything seemed fine.

Now, however, I am starting to get more of my alts in the high level range, and the "gear score" issue has started to appear to me creating a player driven "ceiling". My hunter and paladin already have decent scores, so I have no issue getting them into raids of most levels, but my rogue and shaman barely are chosen for heroics, and my death knight is never asked for anything these days. One guy actually got angry that my DKs DPS, when my best item I had gotten for her at the time was the Spiked Titansteel Helm, did lower DPS in a REGULAR ToC then the other Death Knight in full Scourgeborne. This is regular ToC, otherwise known as "LOLPURPLES" That seems to be what I find appearing more and more on my server, and I just had to vent my frustration of it.

At the very least, Blizzard has allowed us the chance to get Ulduar quality loot through badges. In the end, anyone, even newcomers, should be able to get Ulduar quality gear over time without even stepping foot inside Ulduar. The issue will go down as I run more groups with my friends. I just noticed that, as a newcomer that may not have that, the environment can get very hostile.

I am thinking of switching servers to one a bit more friendly, I just hope I can get my friends to come with me.

Well, there is another route too. Not sure how much success you might have with it, but you could flex your main for your alt. Many times when hunting groups for my hunter, I would do it on my druid. However, I may have had help with that just due to my guild tag. Sometimes I underestimate the value of that. But I think if you can flash achievements from your main showing competence, smart players will take your alt at a slightly lower gear level than they desire.

 

[Shegokigo]

Well, there is another route too. Not sure how much success you might have with it, but you could flex your main for your alt. Many times when hunting groups for my hunter, I would do it on my druid. However, I may have had help with that just due to my guild tag. Sometimes I underestimate the value of that. But I think if you can flash achievements from your main showing competence, smart players will take your alt at a slightly lower gear level than they desire.

Except, you know, you'd rather being doing stuff ON your alt while waiting for a group invite instead of sitting in Dalaran with your main spamming the LFG channel.

 

I logged on to my 80 rogue last night for the first time in 6 months. I've forgotten how to play.

 

[Shakey]

I logged on to my 80 rogue last night for the first time in 6 months. I've forgotten how to play.

Don't forget to check your talents. They have probably been reset since then.

 

[XP-Dolphin]

Well, there is another route too. Not sure how much success you might have with it, but you could flex your main for your alt. Many times when hunting groups for my hunter, I would do it on my druid. However, I may have had help with that just due to my guild tag. Sometimes I underestimate the value of that. But I think if you can flash achievements from your main showing competence, smart players will take your alt at a slightly lower gear level than they desire.

Except, you know, you'd rather being doing stuff ON your alt while waiting for a group invite instead of sitting in Dalaran with your main spamming the LFG channel.

Yeah, but you can do that too by having them armory your main or just swap for proof. Usually though when I found a group for my alt while on my main I was just doing stuff on my main at the time and saw the message asking for dps.

 

[Shegokigo]

I logged on to my 80 rogue last night for the first time in 6 months. I've forgotten how to play.

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/
There ya go! Enjoy the next 9hrs of reading!

 

I logged on to my 80 rogue last night for the first time in 6 months. I've forgotten how to play.

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/
There ya go! Enjoy the next 9hrs of reading!

...6 months later...


Yeah, I had to reset my talents. Couldn't remember whether I was Combat or Sub. I was Combat for leveling and Sub for PvP. Not enough money yet to dual spec thanks to raping the toon to transfer a mule to another server.

 

[Lally]

A friend of mine keeps begging me to play WoW with her but things like this thread (not the elitist players, any game is going to have those, but just all the learning and time investment that seem to be involved) are what keeps me out of it. Seems too much like work. :bush:

 

A friend of mine keeps begging me to play WoW with her but things like this thread (not the elitist players, any game is going to have those, but just all the learning and time investment that seem to be involved) are what keeps me out of it. Seems too much like work. :bush:

When you first start learning how to play and start a character from level 1 it's a fricking blast, especially if you are (1) on a non-PvP server (for a casual gamer, which you seem to be) and (2) with friends.

It's not until you get to the very end game where you start to run into assholes.

Unless you are in the Barrens.

 

[Lally]

I actually used to play on a MUD and I was pretty hardcore about it (both the gameplay/pvp and RP), and that's what made me think that I would love WoW... seems like the same sort of game, but with graphics instead of text. But, that was such a small game (it suffered the same fate you were afraid the forum would suffer -- dwindling numbers and no fresh blood) it was easier to be really good at it. That's another thing that keeps me away from WoW. The MUD I was part of was a much smaller game, with what I imagine had to be less of a time commitment, and it was still a huge timesuck for me. I have the kind of obsessive personality that if I'm interested in something, I want to be an absolute expert at it. I guess that's why I've shied away from WoW for so long, knowing that I would work and work and work to be an expert, and no one wants that.

But I am still tempted......... aranoid:

 

[SpecialKO]

A friend of mine keeps begging me to play WoW with her but things like this thread (not the elitist players, any game is going to have those, but just all the learning and time investment that seem to be involved) are what keeps me out of it. Seems too much like work. :bush:

If your friend is going to start a lvl 1 char of her own to play with you, you'll have a blast. There's so much stuff to do and try out, and the learning curve isn't that steep.

However, if she's a 80 already, it can be really rough and frustrating trying to catch up with people, and it does require a big time investment and learning. You'll spend hours powerlvling your char to 80, and then you still won't be ready to play with people in the endgame.

I don't mean to scare you away (I play quite a lot after all and love it), but leveling together is a totally different, and far more rewarding, experience than playing catch up.

 

[Shegokigo]

Leveling is fun. Leveling with a friend is twice as fun.

WoW is what you make it. Only have a few hours a day to play? Then you can set goals for that kind of time commitment. Obviously there will be certain things you won't be able to do, but like Hal said, that's mostly going to be the final 10% of the game. Which is also completely optional and there are plenty of other things to do other than "4 hour raids for gear".

 

[Shannow]

Leveling is not fun after the first time >.<

 

[Shegokigo]

Leveling is not fun after the first time >.<

I guess that's subjective as I took different paths each time and at least 4 of my characters had 70-80% unique leveling experiences.

 

Leveling is not fun after the first time >.<

It is if you stick close to the beginning areas or switch factions. And the "new" races have different feeling beginning areas than the "old" races.

 

[AshburnerX]

Leveling is not fun after the first time >.<

It is if you stick close to the beginning areas or switch factions. And the "new" races have different feeling beginning areas than the "old" races.

Try "Better Designed with better rewards" over "feeling different".

 

[Raemon777]

If the rumors for Cataclysm are true, you probably want to wait until that comes out.